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Interesting discussion on ESPN

#1

This afternoon on ESPN's NFL live they had a segment focusing on the 12 teams that have yet to win a Super Bowl ring and they did a survey and ranked the teams according to the likelihood they win their first ring this year.

The Jaguars ranked 4th on the survey behind the Chargers the Falcons and the Vikings however the subsequent discussion by the panelists- including Darren Woodson and former Titans running back DeMarco Murray-revealed that all of them had more respect for the Jaguars then the survey would indicate.  The consensus among them was Jacksonville should rank second only behind the Vikings.

Aside from being totally shocked at the level of respect afforded Us by ESPN I found the entire discussion to be quite interesting. So where do you think the Jaguars should rank amongst those teams that have yet to win a Superbowl?  

For additional perspective the Jaguars ranked just above the Texans and the Titans.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#2

At the risk of coming across curmudgeonly, or at the very least jaded, I think that this is a thing common to ESPN in that it has more to do with sizzle than it does steak. That's not to say that Jacksonville does not have a quality roster with top tier talent. It's just that with the big personalities on this team, I feel like the perception is skewed due to how well they talk the talk.

Of the teams listed, I would rank Atlanta highest simply due to their recent history and then San Diego LA. I don't think Minnesota is going to do quite so well this year due to them most likely playing for second in the NFC North and having a tougher time through the Playoffs.
I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!
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#3
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2018, 05:36 PM by Bullseye.)

(07-12-2018, 04:11 PM)Deacon Wrote: At the risk of coming across curmudgeonly, or at the very least jaded, I think that this is a thing common to ESPN in that it has more to do with sizzle than it does steak. That's not to say that Jacksonville does not have a quality roster with top tier talent. It's just that with the big personalities on this team, I feel like the perception is skewed due to how well they talk the talk.

Of the teams listed, I would rank Atlanta highest simply due to their recent history and then San Diego LA. I don't think Minnesota is going to do quite so well this year due to them most likely playing for second in the NFC North and having a tougher time through the Playoffs.
I don't see your response as particularly curmudgeonly at all.  I think the national sports media generally and ESPN in particular have a proven track record of valuing style over substance.  As great as that 1985 Bears team was, as loaded with truly great players like Payton, Hampton and Singletary, the two guys on that team that got all of the media attention we're Jim McMahon and William Perry.  Those last two I named could not hold the Jocks of the first guys I named in terms of pure football ability.  But because of their personalities, they got more of the attention and buzz over more deserving players.

Having said this, I find myself in the most unusual position of defending ESPN in this matter, particularly DeMarco Murray.

Being a former tack RB who just played against this defense last year-on a team that beat us twice-he could have easily underrated this team or otherwise trashed us.

He didn't.

Murray was effusive in his praise for this team overall and the defense in particular.  He lauded Calais Campbell and Telvin Smith, raving about his athleticism.  When one of the talking heads referenced how Ramsey talks trash, Murray almost brushed it off.  He acknowledged Ramsey talks trash, but strongly emphasized he backs it up perhaps better than any player in the league.  He talked about his cover skills and his ability to make plays on the ball.  Oddly, the one critique he had of Ramsey was tackling-something I would never see as a problem with him.  But considering he has actually gone up against Ramsey the past couple of years as a runner, he would certainly be far more of an authority on the subject.  But the discussion about the Jaguars and the list of 12 overall placed a heavy emphasis on substance, and was rather lengthy.  It was one of the best segments I have seen from ESPN in years.

I share your views on Atlanta and the Bolts.  In fact, at this point, the Bolts are the one team I fear in the AFC.

I'm not sure if I am quite ready to write off Minnesota just yet, even though I am similarly unsure if I would rank them above us.  I think the difference between their defense and the Packers' defense is enough to mitigate the difference between a healthy Aaron Rodgers and Kirk Cousins (who is an upgrade over Keenum) to the point where Minnesota ending up in second place-or lower-is not a foregone conclusion in my mind.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#4

This is a team that thrives on being underestimated. Let's see how they do when the opposite is true.
Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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#5

(07-12-2018, 05:01 PM)FBT Wrote: This is a team that thrives on being underestimated.  Let's see how they do when the opposite is true.

Agreed.

More than any other team in Jaguars history with the possible exception of the 1996 team, this team feeds off of disrespect.  Much like a large segment of our fan base, this current team is  quick to identify slights from the national media.  From this perspective, the fans should more readily identify with the team and vice versa than St any point in our history.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#6

I say we're actually number one. This team resembles the Seahawks from a few years ago. Stout defense. Stout running game. Not too flashy in the passing game but they manage to get by with okay players at the position. And just play mistake free football. Atlanta had their shot. They blew it in the most prolific fashion possible. The Chargers had their chance years ago. That window has closed.

The Vikings being a shoe in or higher than us is funny to me. They were caught off guard completely in Philadelphia earlier this year. At least we still had a chance in our loss to the Patriots. Even with Cousins you still have to factor in that when Rodgers is healthy in Green Bay it's almost always their division for the taking. I think it's us that stands the best chance to win it. And we'll end up playing the Patriots, Steelers & Chiefs this year. All are play-off caliber teams or better. So we'll know whether or not they've bought into the media hype.
[Image: 4SXW6gC.png]

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
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#7

And just think....not too long ago Wolfie was saying after that 3rd preseason game against the Bengals, we were a 5-11 team.

We sure have came a long.....long way from that night.
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#8

I"m excited to go into this season. The first time in awhile I could say that.
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#9

(07-12-2018, 07:13 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: And just think....not too long ago Wolfie was saying after that 3rd preseason game against the Bengals, we were a 5-11 team.

We sure have came a long.....long way from that night.

(07-12-2018, 07:50 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: I"m excited to go into this season. The first time in awhile I could say that.

It sure is great, isn't it?
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#10

(07-12-2018, 06:59 PM)Caldrac Wrote: I say we're actually number one. This team resembles the Seahawks from a few years ago. Stout defense. Stout running game. Not too flashy in the passing game but they manage to get by with okay players at the position. And just play mistake free football. Atlanta had their shot. They blew it in the most prolific fashion possible. The Chargers had their chance years ago. That window has closed.

The Vikings being a shoe in or higher than us is funny to me. They were caught off guard completely in Philadelphia earlier this year. At least we still had a chance in our loss to the Patriots. Even with Cousins you still have to factor in that when Rodgers is healthy in Green Bay it's almost always their division for the taking. I think it's us that stands the best chance to win it. And we'll end up playing the Patriots, Steelers & Chiefs this year. All are play-off caliber teams or better. So we'll know whether or not they've bought into the media hype.

I agree our team is built more like the Seahawks, the recent Broncos Super Bowl team, and going further back, Tampa and the Ravens.  In terms of the "okay players at the position," descriptor you give Seattle, I submit that is more applicable to the receivers than it is to Russell Wilson.  I think Wilson is at least very good.

I strongly disagree about the Chargers not being viable contenders. 

Phillip Rivers is still among the best QBs in the AFC.  They have a good running game, good receivers, and a very strong defense.

The talent on that team, especially along the D-line, rivals ours.  More than any other team in the AFC, they match up very well with us, and I include Tennessee in that.  When we played last year, they out played us for most of that game, and by most measures should have won that game.  I have repeatedly stated that is the one team I do not want this team to face in January.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#11

I think the Chargers are underrated but their fortunes are built on Phillip Rivers who's no spring chicken. They're one injury away from 8-8. It's not going to be a popular opinion here but I think you could make a case for our defense being a little overrated. There's no doubt we're wonderfully talented but we had occasions to fall apart last year and give up stretches of big plays. I think that gets forgotten. So I think 4th is probably about right where we should be on that particular list.
I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.
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#12

(07-12-2018, 08:45 PM)hb1148 Wrote: I think the Chargers are underrated but their fortunes are built on Phillip Rivers who's no spring chicken. They're one injury away from 8-8. It's not going to be a popular opinion here but I think you could make a case for our defense being a little overrated. There's no doubt we're wonderfully talented but we had occasions to fall apart last year and give up stretches of big plays. I think that gets forgotten. So I think 4th is probably about right where we should be on that particular list.

We also avoided the injury bug. We were one torn ACL, one hyper extended knee away from our vaunted defense becoming simply adequate.
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#13

(07-12-2018, 06:59 PM)Caldrac Wrote: I say we're actually number one. This team resembles the Seahawks from a few years ago. Stout defense. Stout running game. Not too flashy in the passing game but they manage to get by with okay players at the position. And just play mistake free football. Atlanta had their shot. They blew it in the most prolific fashion possible. The Chargers had their chance years ago. That window has closed.

The Vikings being a shoe in or higher than us is funny to me. They were caught off guard completely in Philadelphia earlier this year. At least we still had a chance in our loss to the Patriots. Even with Cousins you still have to factor in that when Rodgers is healthy in Green Bay it's almost always their division for the taking. I think it's us that stands the best chance to win it. And we'll end up playing the Patriots, Steelers & Chiefs this year. All are play-off caliber teams or better. So we'll know whether or not they've bought into the media hype.I 
I think the Vikings free agent signing of Cousins Is going to backfire on them this year. He was not worth what they paid and the pressure to perform will affect his game especially if by mid-season their record is such that they are not on track to make the playoffs. So I definitely believe we should be ranked number one.  I expect Blake to have a break out year, improved offensive line, much-improved running game if Leonard is healthy. and last but not least I think Taven  Bryan will improve the defensive line and by mid-season will bring an explosive addition to the rotation.  GO JAGUARS
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#14
(This post was last modified: 07-13-2018, 10:58 AM by Bullseye.)

(07-12-2018, 08:45 PM)hb1148 Wrote: I think the Chargers are underrated but their fortunes are built on Phillip Rivers who's no spring chicken. They're one injury away from 8-8. It's not going to be a popular opinion here but I think you could make a case for our defense being a little overrated. There's no doubt we're wonderfully talented but we had occasions to fall apart last year and give up stretches of big plays. I think that gets forgotten. So I think 4th is probably about right where we should be on that particular list.

I'm not Rivers', Brady's, or Big Ben's physicians, but at face value, rivers appears no more old and decrepit than Brady or Big Ben.

All of them should be past their primes, but all three are playing well.  It would be interesting to see how the power dynamic changed in the AFC if all three of those guys fell off dramatically due to age.

Late last year, our defense became inexplicably vulnerable to the deep pass.

It seemed to start with the Seattle game, as Russell Wilson pulled some rabbits out of his hat to keep them close in a game that should have been a blowout.

Then the 49ers picked us apart.

The vulnerability to deep passes continued to show against the Steelers in the playoffs.  Like the Seattle game, we should have blown them out, but for desperation 4th and long heaves by Big Ben that went for TDs.

I guess you could argue the pass rush was less effective later in the year than it was earlier, and that contributed to the vulnerability to the deep pass.  For much of last year, the defense was on pace to break the single season sack record held by the '84 Bears but then fell off.  Fifty five sacks was still very good especially in light of the poor defensive performances of prior years, but considering at one point in mid season, they were on pace for 75 sacks, that result was mildly disappointing.

(07-13-2018, 10:35 AM)dennisp3 Wrote:
(07-12-2018, 06:59 PM)Caldrac Wrote: I say we're actually number one. This team resembles the Seahawks from a few years ago. Stout defense. Stout running game. Not too flashy in the passing game but they manage to get by with okay players at the position. And just play mistake free football. Atlanta had their shot. They blew it in the most prolific fashion possible. The Chargers had their chance years ago. That window has closed.

The Vikings being a shoe in or higher than us is funny to me. They were caught off guard completely in Philadelphia earlier this year. At least we still had a chance in our loss to the Patriots. Even with Cousins you still have to factor in that when Rodgers is healthy in Green Bay it's almost always their division for the taking. I think it's us that stands the best chance to win it. And we'll end up playing the Patriots, Steelers & Chiefs this year. All are play-off caliber teams or better. So we'll know whether or not they've bought into the media hype.I 
I think the Vikings free agent signing of Cousins Is going to backfire on them this year. He was not worth what they paid and the pressure to perform will affect his game especially if by mid-season their record is such that they are not on track to make the playoffs. So I definitely believe we should be ranked number one.  I expect Blake to have a break out year, improved offensive line, much-improved running game if Leonard is healthy. and last but not least I think Taven  Bryan will improve the defensive line and by mid-season will bring an explosive addition to the rotation.  GO JAGUARS
I have entertained similar thoughts, though I am unsure if it will backfire on them this year as much as it may in the second and third years of his deal when those defensive players need to be re-signed.  Do I think he will improve their QB position?  Do I think it will be enough to get them to the Super Bowl?  That is the question.

I sure hope you and the team are right about Taven Bryan.  With the news about Dareus, we may end up needing him to contribute far sooner than we initially thought when we drafted him.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#15

(07-12-2018, 08:01 PM)Bullseye Wrote:
(07-12-2018, 06:59 PM)Caldrac Wrote: I say we're actually number one. This team resembles the Seahawks from a few years ago. Stout defense. Stout running game. Not too flashy in the passing game but they manage to get by with okay players at the position. And just play mistake free football. Atlanta had their shot. They blew it in the most prolific fashion possible. The Chargers had their chance years ago. That window has closed.

The Vikings being a shoe in or higher than us is funny to me. They were caught off guard completely in Philadelphia earlier this year. At least we still had a chance in our loss to the Patriots. Even with Cousins you still have to factor in that when Rodgers is healthy in Green Bay it's almost always their division for the taking. I think it's us that stands the best chance to win it. And we'll end up playing the Patriots, Steelers & Chiefs this year. All are play-off caliber teams or better. So we'll know whether or not they've bought into the media hype.

I agree our team is built more like the Seahawks, the recent Broncos Super Bowl team, and going further back, Tampa and the Ravens.  In terms of the "okay players at the position," descriptor you give Seattle, I submit that is more applicable to the receivers than it is to Russell Wilson.  I think Wilson is at least very good.

I strongly disagree about the Chargers not being viable contenders. 

Phillip Rivers is still among the best QBs in the AFC.  They have a good running game, good receivers, and a very strong defense.

The talent on that team, especially along the D-line, rivals ours.  More than any other team in the AFC, they match up very well with us, and I include Tennessee in that.  When we played last year, they out played us for most of that game, and by most measures should have won that game.  I have repeatedly stated that is the one team I do not want this team to face in January.

I hear you. I think they lost an opportunity though way back when. They had some great years when Rivers was younger and Gates was the next generation type of TE at that time that now everybody tags Gronkowski and Kelce with. And of course. They had L.T. My concern with Rivers is just time creeping up on him. It gets to the best of them at some point. Manning went from throwing TD's everywhere in DEN and then just hit that wall on his way out there the following year. 

Wouldn't shock me if that happened to Rivers, Brees and even Brady this year. We'll see. And honestly. I would love to see the tacks in January. Nothing would be more sweet than to bulldoze them on our way to a SB. I think last year a lot of it was just youth trying to get it together all across the board. They should be better this year against them.
[Image: 4SXW6gC.png]

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
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#16

In the playoffs we ran into a top of the line wide receiver that earned his spot. Defense gave me some pause in different phases of the season. We went from being gashed on the ground to being dinked and dunked to being hit for the big plays. The coaching staff leaned very hard on the defense all year and coached to negate the QB position. We see anything out of Bortles and an improved offensive line sledding downhill in the 4th quarter and this defense will be a nightmare.

I'm cautiously optimistic and still mildly concerned with the QB position. It is odd because I know Bortels can perform but will he?
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