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Cole and Chark cost us that game

#41
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2018, 07:53 AM by irontrooper83.)

It was a team loss on Sunday and don't want to single out a single player or thing to blame the loss on.
But Lageman showed this play last night a bit disappointed at Blake for not seeing/not deciding to throw it and thought I could post it here as another missed opportunity from the game as it seems to be the "what if thread" Smile 


On the final drive of the game, on the 4th&1 that Bortles converted with his legs there was a breakdown in coverage from the Eagles and Westbrook was wide open for the TD. Like Lageman said, not sure if Bortles doesn't see him or thinks it's better to play it safe running for the conversion but the opportunity was huge (Lageman also shows Ngakoue on the sideline screaming, jumping and pointing at Westbrook hoping Bortles throws it there). If he saw it Blake probably thought that if he misses the throw or the WR has another drop the game is over and thought take the safe first down with the run was easier. I don't know and I can't rewatch it now but probably didn't look that way at after moving out of the pocket.

I went to rewatch the game with gamepass today and took a couple of screenshots of it, sorry fot bad quality of images. (click on the images to see full size, if a mod knows how to put it full-size on here can edit it)
Unfortunately coaches film wasn't available with different angles so I only have livegame replay available with the view of the play.

This is the coverage breaking down and Westbrook getting open up left with the Eagles CB moving towards the inside of the field as Bortles ends the spin move to get himself out of pressure:
[Image: 5235341014646334.jpg] 

And this is Bortles with a free lane and Westbrook up top completely open (and you can see better how the coverage broke down in this picture) At the moment i took the screenshot of this seems Blake is almost fully committed to running but there was a couple of moments where he could set his feet and throw (if he saw Dede). Just took the screenshot now cause it was probably the best image with the full field view.
[Image: 566ac41014646354.jpg] 

We still converted and had a big opportunity later in the drive with the 2nd&2 so it's not like we lost the game here but thought this was an interesting (and frustrating)play as well.
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#42
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2018, 01:34 PM by jagherd.)

(10-28-2018, 06:42 PM)MoJagFan Wrote:
(10-28-2018, 06:31 PM)Rockman1966 Wrote: That would had been a very tough catch for Chark.
Opposing TEs are destroying the Jags.

Competent  TEs destroy all defenses. They produce matchup issues. This team has historically been burned by the TEs. Frank Wycheck owned this team.

Wycheck
Delanie Walker
Antonio Gates

3 TEs off the top of my head that just completely burned the Jags every. single. time.
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#43

No doubt that this team will have to take a hard look at their current receiving corps prior to free agency and the draft. Moncrief will most definitely be gone and Cole's arrow is pointing straight down. Can Lee, Westbrook and Chark get the job done next season? I would definitely try to find a receiver in the mid-rounds (3 or 4) if not in free agency. Seems like good receivers can be found after round 2.

Round 1- QB

Round 2- O-Line

Round 3 - Receiver

Defense will be fine even after losing Fowler, Church and possibly another defensive lineman.
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#44

Qb sucks next year. So probably better go wr round 1 or OL.

Hope to get a project qb turn into a franchise. Or wait till 2020
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#45

Speaking of receivers...  Everyone in the gameday thread was quick to jump on Moncrief for not laying out for a deep ball the other day.

It was thrown way inside and a bit deep -- the DB also did a nice job of shoving him off line while the ball was in the air so he couldn't make a move on it.  Not much more he could have done there.

Would have been a really amazing play to fight through the DB and get to that ball. Notice the DB has eyes on it but makes no attempt at it either.




[Image: giphy.gif]
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#46

Cole and Moncrief need to be coming off the bench. Dede and Chark need to start.
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#47

Chark sucks as well, not sure why you think he’s deserved to start. The only receiver I somewhat trust is Westbrook.
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#48

Thanks for post NYC4jags. It is easy to pile on the receivers. Better throw would have helped. Should that have been to the outside with the sideline as a buffer? Would have helped.
The Khan Years

Patience, Persistence, and Piss Poor General Managers.
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#49

(10-31-2018, 07:07 AM)SuperJville Wrote: Chark sucks as well, not sure why you think he’s deserved to start.  The only receiver I somewhat trust is Westbrook.

I've thought of Westbrook as our most talented receiver since the beginning of the season but very disappointed in Cole. After last year, I expected him to take a big step forward. He's the WR version of Bortles right now, zero consistency.
I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.
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#50

(10-29-2018, 11:10 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote:
(10-29-2018, 10:30 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: I get that, and you make fine points. I'm talking about the need to pin it on one guy when any number of different things could have changed the outcome had they gone differently.  Sure Cole's mistake may have been among the most blatant, but it's not the sole reason for the loss as there are many factors that also contributed and kept the team from overcoming that error. 

I guess people naturally want to place blame, but I find it odd to lay it all on one guy.

We don't have the QB or the offense in general to overcome the blatant errors, but I can't in good conscience lay much blame on Blake for Sunday's loss based on what I saw.  Most teams don't have the guy under center that wipes away blatant errors.

Last year, the defense was so good it either wiped away errors or actually scored for us to put us in the lead which made their job even easier.  They're not doing that this year, but they're still playing well overall.  

On a side note, it looks like Cole had already been demoted or the fumble may have sealed the deal.  I hadn't realized he was in on so few plays.

https://twitter.com/SmolaDS/status/1056884517431111680


23 percent week 8? Wow!

That's a change. Heck, that really is a demotion.

How does one player make so many mistakes on so few reps?  Was he drunk?
'02
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#51
(This post was last modified: 11-01-2018, 12:34 PM by Setsuna00.)

(10-31-2018, 07:07 AM)SuperJville Wrote: Chark sucks as well, not sure why you think he’s deserved to start.  The only receiver I somewhat trust is Westbrook.

Well you can't not start no one. If they all suck then start the ones with the most consistent production thus far and that's Chark and Westbrook. Notice I said consistent not what you see on stat sheets overall. So we need to change our entire Offense to become a one WR formation and let none of them play? You offer no solutions and complain about everything.
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#52

(11-01-2018, 12:34 PM)Setsuna00 Wrote:
(10-31-2018, 07:07 AM)SuperJville Wrote: Chark sucks as well, not sure why you think he’s deserved to start.  The only receiver I somewhat trust is Westbrook.

Well you can't not start no one. If they all suck then start the ones with the most consistent production thus far and that's Chark and Westbrook. Notice I said consistent not what you see on stat sheets overall. So we need to change our entire Offense to become a one WR formation and let none of them play? You offer no solutions and complain about everything.


You start Westbrook and Moncrief. Let Chark and Cole battle for the additional reps.
'02
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#53

Between DJ Charked my pants and Crisco Cole neither is really good.,
[Image: mvp.avia8a99974486b2b89.md.png]
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#54

(11-01-2018, 04:56 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: Between DJ Charked my pants and Crisco Cole neither is really good.,

Do you think you've got a meaningful read on whether or not a rookie that's got maybe 30 targets under his belt is good or not?

(11-01-2018, 02:39 PM)Jags02 Wrote:
(11-01-2018, 12:34 PM)Setsuna00 Wrote: Well you can't not start no one. If they all suck then start the ones with the most consistent production thus far and that's Chark and Westbrook. Notice I said consistent not what you see on stat sheets overall. So we need to change our entire Offense to become a one WR formation and let none of them play? You offer no solutions and complain about everything.


You start Westbrook and Moncrief. Let Chark and Cole battle for the additional reps.

It would appear Chark already won that battle.
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#55

(11-01-2018, 02:39 PM)Jags02 Wrote:
(11-01-2018, 12:34 PM)Setsuna00 Wrote: Well you can't not start no one. If they all suck then start the ones with the most consistent production thus far and that's Chark and Westbrook. Notice I said consistent not what you see on stat sheets overall. So we need to change our entire Offense to become a one WR formation and let none of them play? You offer no solutions and complain about everything.


You start Westbrook and Moncrief. Let Chark and Cole battle for the additional reps.

Salary aside, what have you seen from Moncrief to suggest he deserves to start? Just getting a high volume of targets doesn't count. A blind squirrel finds a nut eventually if you keep throwing them at his face. He's almost never separated from his defender. Dede and Chark seem to be 2 steps ahead of their guys at will.
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#56

(11-02-2018, 02:42 AM)Setsuna00 Wrote:
(11-01-2018, 02:39 PM)Jags02 Wrote: You start Westbrook and Moncrief. Let Chark and Cole battle for the additional reps.

Salary aside, what have you seen from Moncrief to suggest he deserves to start? Just getting a high volume of targets doesn't count. A blind squirrel finds a nut eventually if you keep throwing them at his face. He's almost never separated from his defender. Dede and Chark seem to be 2 steps ahead of their guys at will.


Why do you think he's getting such a high volume of targets?  It's not because of his hands. He's getting them because when Blake goes through his reads, Moncrief is the guy he keeps seeing open. 
'02
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#57

(10-30-2018, 07:30 AM)irontrooper83 Wrote: And this is Bortles with a free lane and Westbrook up top completely open (and you can see better how the coverage broke down in this picture) At the moment i took the screenshot of this seems Blake is almost fully committed to running but there was a couple of moments where he could set his feet and throw (if he saw Dede). Just took the screenshot now cause it was probably the best image with the full field view.
[Image: 566ac41014646354.jpg] 

We still converted and had a big opportunity later in the drive with the 2nd&2 so it's not like we lost the game here but thought this was an interesting (and frustrating)play as well.


I see another WR on the mid-field logo wide open as well.
'02
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#58
(This post was last modified: 11-02-2018, 11:04 AM by flgatorsandjags.)

(11-02-2018, 10:52 AM)Jags02 Wrote:
(11-02-2018, 02:42 AM)Setsuna00 Wrote: Salary aside, what have you seen from Moncrief to suggest he deserves to start? Just getting a high volume of targets doesn't count. A blind squirrel finds a nut eventually if you keep throwing them at his face. He's almost never separated from his defender. Dede and Chark seem to be 2 steps ahead of their guys at will.


Why do you think he's getting such a high volume of targets?  It's not because of his hands. He's getting them because when Blake goes through his reads, Moncrief is the guy he keeps seeing open. 

Open? Not very often    The biggest target? yes

Cole getts open the most he just has the droppsies
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#59

(11-02-2018, 10:52 AM)Jags02 Wrote:
(11-02-2018, 02:42 AM)Setsuna00 Wrote: Salary aside, what have you seen from Moncrief to suggest he deserves to start? Just getting a high volume of targets doesn't count. A blind squirrel finds a nut eventually if you keep throwing them at his face. He's almost never separated from his defender. Dede and Chark seem to be 2 steps ahead of their guys at will.


Why do you think he's getting such a high volume of targets?  It's not because of his hands. He's getting them because when Blake goes through his reads, Moncrief is the guy he keeps seeing open. 
Lol You think Blake goes through reads?
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#60

(11-02-2018, 11:08 AM)Cleatwood Wrote:
(11-02-2018, 10:52 AM)Jags02 Wrote: Why do you think he's getting such a high volume of targets?  It's not because of his hands. He's getting them because when Blake goes through his reads, Moncrief is the guy he keeps seeing open. 
Lol You think Blake goes through reads?

Maybe not always, or usually, but yes.  When he has time he does.  He's just quick to get it out if he feels any pressure.
[Image: IMG-1452.jpg]
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