(11-02-2018, 12:56 AM)JagNGeorgia Wrote:

(11-01-2018, 11:12 PM)mikesez Wrote: You are attempting to go even further back into history to pull off a tu quoque. So even if you have your history right you are committing a logical fallacy.
Slavery is wrong. It is always wrong. If I decide to buy a slave that somebody else has already captured and humiliated, and I keep that person in servitude, I am just as guilty as the original slaver. It's not like buying a big screen TV that the seller stole from your neighbor's house. a big screen TV could be owned legitimately or be stolen goods. A slave is always stolen goods.
Any discussion of slavery is also a discussion of if all humans have agency and dignity, or not.
You're trying to give the white race credit for giving the black race something that they deserved all along anyhow, and it doesn't really indicate that you understand the dignity and agency of all people in all times.

You misunderstood my entire post. You're getting two points confused with each other.

SignMeUpAtQB said that white people are responsible for the slavery of Africans and are suffering from the "consequences" thereafter. I disagree with that statement. I'll repeat what I said: Maybe you can explain how it was the European's fault that Africa suffers from the effects of slavery but not simultaneously the fault of other Africans and Arabs. Thus the blame would fall equally on everyone and not blames almost exclusively on whites.

Europeans can't be blamed without first blaming Africans and Arabs.  This isn't to diminish the effect of slavery but instead to show that maybe everything isn't the white man's fault. Especially since they were doing it before and are still doing it today. 

I'm not giving white people credit for something they deserved all along. I agree that they deserved it all along. I'm explaining Horowitz's point is that very few white people owned slaves, and white people as a whole are blamed for slavery. Similarly, Horowitz tried to explain that many white people fought and died to ensure that slaves were given rights. Do you think they had to do that? Horowitz is trying to say that white people voted and died for the rights of slaves. Somewhere around 1-2% of the population died fighting for their rights. You can't just dismiss that, and that is what Horowitz believed.

I was trying to relate back to US history though, but you are correct in that slavery is not a problem created by the white man, however, it is definitely one emphasized by him. And to deny that is pointless, especially with this playground argument that "others did it first, so its kind of okay/not our fault". The violation of human rights by Katar and parts of Africa are equally terrible, but i dont understand how this can be fabricated into an excuse, or even more blatantly, "credit", for white people.
Also look at how black people were treated after slavery was abolished. Yes, slavery was done, but to say that their lives equated that of a free (white) man is ridiculous. We could start a whole discussion over the term "freedom". Is freedom not being a slave? Is freedom being able to go to the same places as other ethnicities? Sitting in the same seats?

The statement that "black people owe whites their freedom" is basically like saying the jews owe the Germans, because hey, small groups of them fought the nazis and their regime at the time and lost their lives. Or maybe they owe the russians, who 'saved' them from the nazis by winning the war (only to then be oppressed by Stalin).
I understand that these fights need to be acknowledged, but to derive from that that another ethnicity or minority owes them anything is bull and just shows how high some people are on their white race.

Horowitz is a plain racist that constantly fuels hate against minorities. He calls the BLM movement racist and blames black people on their inability to progress as a culture. To somehow look for truth in the [BLEEP] that is coming out of this biggots mouth is just a big tell on where people stand when it comes to racial inequality.

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