Posted in a different thread about this but you should enter into this offseason assuming that you have a below average RT+LT, question mark at RG, underwhelming LG and a center who is great but will likely miss several games a year.

I think drafting two Olinemen this year is a must based on the above. 1) If we are drafting a rookie QB high and playing him, effective Oline play is critical to not ruin him 2) If we are still doing the run heavy offense then the margin for error is too small on Oline not to load up.

Now, I am a big Pat Flaherty fan. He made the Oline very good last year despite 3 below average starters on it and his track record shows he's very good at making cohesive units but I don't want to rely on that alone.

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Yeah, maybe. 
It's a little early to think we know which guys are going to be sitting there at our second pick. The top tackles could be gone. ...


All I know is they definitely need a guard before the 4th and they need depth everywhere. I just hope to see two quality linemen selected before the 4th round, and I hope one of them has some versatility. 
I imagine we'll see some depth signings in mid March from the pool of journeymen out there. That may be the first chance to really begin speculating their approach.

I agree totally. We have no clue what the team will do regarding the O-Line, but they have to see it's a major problem. I don't know what their evaluation of Richardson is, but last season the coaching staff was adamant he was a RT only. I doubt they stray from that, unless we get a whole new coaching staff (fingers crossed.) I really do not want to go through a bunch of low level journeymen FA's to fill holes. That does nothing. I believe in building via the draft. Hopefully we've learned our lesson this season and we build a stronger O-Line around our new QB.

I agree on building through the draft. 
My reference to journeymen was based on the assumption they'll be bringing extra bodies to camp - hoping a couple of them stick as depth. Remember, Wells and Shatley are free agents if they don't do something with them prior to March 15.

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I agree totally. We have no clue what the team will do regarding the O-Line, but they have to see it's a major problem. I don't know what their evaluation of Richardson is, but last season the coaching staff was adamant he was a RT only. I doubt they stray from that, unless we get a whole new coaching staff (fingers crossed.) I really do not want to go through a bunch of low level journeymen FA's to fill holes. That does nothing. I believe in building via the draft. Hopefully we've learned our lesson this season and we build a stronger O-Line around our new QB.

I agree on building through the draft. 
My reference to journeymen was based on the assumption they'll be bringing extra bodies to camp - hoping a couple of them stick as depth. Remember, Wells and Shatley are free agents if they don't do something with them prior to March 15.

I might consider keeping Shatley for the right price, but Wells has to go.

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Posted in a different thread about this but you should enter into this offseason assuming that you have a below average RT+LT, question mark at RG, underwhelming LG and a center who is great but will likely miss several games a year.  

I think drafting two Olinemen this year is a must based on the above.  1) If we are drafting a rookie QB high and playing him, effective Oline play is critical to not ruin him 2) If we are still doing the run heavy offense then the margin for error is too small on Oline not to load up.  

Now, I am a big Pat Flaherty fan. He made the Oline very good last year despite 3 below average starters on it and his track record shows he's very good at making cohesive units but I don't want to rely on that alone.

I'm not as pessimistic about Cam Robinson as a lot of folks out there, but I can't disagree on the rest.
I'd say I'm closer to  assuming they'll have an average-to-slightly-above-average starting LT.

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Posted in a different thread about this but you should enter into this offseason assuming that you have a below average RT+LT, question mark at RG, underwhelming LG and a center who is great but will likely miss several games a year.  

I think drafting two Olinemen this year is a must based on the above.  1) If we are drafting a rookie QB high and playing him, effective Oline play is critical to not ruin him 2) If we are still doing the run heavy offense then the margin for error is too small on Oline not to load up.  

Now, I am a big Pat Flaherty fan. He made the Oline very good last year despite 3 below average starters on it and his track record shows he's very good at making cohesive units but I don't want to rely on that alone.

I'm not as pessimistic about Cam Robinson as a lot of folks out there, but I can't disagree on the rest.
I'd say I'm closer to  assuming they'll have an average-to-slightly-above-average starting LT.

I like Cam too but mostly run blocking wise. Now, it's possible he develops further as a pass protector next year but I wouldn't want to bank on that if you know what I mean.    

Basically if you have a shot to land someone who you like at LT I wouldn't let Cams presence there stop you.

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Posted in a different thread about this but you should enter into this offseason assuming that you have a below average RT+LT, question mark at RG, underwhelming LG and a center who is great but will likely miss several games a year.  

I think drafting two Olinemen this year is a must based on the above.  1) If we are drafting a rookie QB high and playing him, effective Oline play is critical to not ruin him 2) If we are still doing the run heavy offense then the margin for error is too small on Oline not to load up.  

Now, I am a big Pat Flaherty fan. He made the Oline very good last year despite 3 below average starters on it and his track record shows he's very good at making cohesive units but I don't want to rely on that alone.

I'm not as pessimistic about Cam Robinson as a lot of folks out there, but I can't disagree on the rest.
I'd say I'm closer to  assuming they'll have an average-to-slightly-above-average starting LT.

I hope you're right, but personally, I've always seen Cam as a better fit at RT. Even if he turns out to be an average LT, I'll be happy though. We don't need stars on the O-Line, we just need a cohesive unit with no weak links.

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During this offseason I'd hope to bring in two Oline guys in the first 5 rounds (starting guard + some kind of tackle) , then maybe trade after the draft for a tackle with a year left on his deal or something.

Go way overboard loading on the Oline. You rarely ever seen an NFL team that says "we actually have too many good Oline guys"

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I'm not as pessimistic about Cam Robinson as a lot of folks out there, but I can't disagree on the rest.
I'd say I'm closer to  assuming they'll have an average-to-slightly-above-average starting LT.

I hope you're right, but personally, I've always seen Cam as a better fit at RT. Even if he turns out to be an average LT, I'll be happy though. We don't need stars on the O-Line, we just need a cohesive unit with no weak links.

Eh you are still facing elite pass rushers at RT and right side and Cam has played almost every snap of his career as a LT. 

He has balance and technique issues at LT, moving him to RT is only going to make that worse as he'd be forced to learn completely new movement patterns and sets.

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I think the draft should look something along these lines. You could flip the two 3rd round picks as well and go either TE/OL, depending who's on the board. 

Obviously FA will change things a bit. If they sign an OL guy in FA, which is possible, they probably only draft one instead of two.

1 - QB
2 - OL
3 - TE
3 - OL
4 - WR
6 - RB/LB
7 - LB/RB

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I agree on building through the draft. 
My reference to journeymen was based on the assumption they'll be bringing extra bodies to camp - hoping a couple of them stick as depth. Remember, Wells and Shatley are free agents if they don't do something with them prior to March 15.

I might consider keeping Shatley for the right price, but Wells has to go.

My point was they are the only remotely serviceable depth on the team and their contracts are up.

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I might consider keeping Shatley for the right price, but Wells has to go.

Might point was they are the only remotely serviceable depth on the team and their contracts are up.

Agreed.

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I think the draft should look something along these lines. You could flip the two 3rd round picks as well and go either TE/OL, depending who's on the board. 

Obviously FA will change things a bit. If they sign an OL guy in FA, which is possible, they probably only draft one instead of two.

1 - QB
2 - OL
3 - TE
3 - OL
4 - WR
6 - RB/LB
7 - LB/RB

I'm not going to necessarily assign a round for each position of need, (other than QB in the 1st.) I have to see who is on the board, when we are up to pick. I really don't wanna sign a FA RG either, because we used that strategy on Norwell and it bit us in the butt. Now, we have a very expensive, yet average LG. As far as the draft, in the final 2 rounds, I would look for an edge pass rusher to replace Fowler and a space eating NT to help upgrade the run defense. I wouldn't worry about RB. There are a ton of RB's who have declared already that weren't expected to and not enough teams to place them on. There will be very good RB's available as UDFA's. Besides, a RB is only as good as his O-Line. I would like to add some LB depth, particularly one with coverage ability.

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Swing tackle more important than a #1 WR, lmaoooo.

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Swing tackle more important than a #1 WR, lmaoooo.

Based on this season he's not wrong though. The LT position has seen better days. And now Parnell is nicked up at RT. This entire offensive line could use more depth and better overall quality in general. I caught a ton of [BLEEP] last year for not liking the contract extension on Brandon Linder because of the fact that he's never played a full season for us. 

Here it is for the 5th straight year in a row that he's either missed a handful of games or has finished on IR. The highest paid Center in the NFL shouldn't be the highest paid Center in the NFL if he can't stay out on the football field. He's not Bruce Matthews. He's not Kevin Mawae. Hell, he's not even Brad Meester. I never liked that extension. 

But. What good is a #1 WR going to do this team in 2019 when:

A. No time in the pocket to throw it now as it stands. So far it looks like Kessler is just a smaller version of Bortles running for his life out there like a chicken with it's head cut off and just too gun shy to take too many chances with the football. 

B. Who is the starting QB in 2019? Is it going to be Flacco? Manning? Mullens? A rookie? A lot of concern there already in 2018. And now you have that as a huge question mark going into 2019. What good is a #1 WR if you can't protect your investment's blindside? 

C. Linder, Norwell, Robinson & Parnell are all coming back next year off of injuries. Just makes it that much harder to develop chemistry and consistency. Adding a solid swing OT into the fold could save us a lot of trouble down the road. This thread is proof that we should have considered the offensive line A LOT more back in April of this year's draft. 

D. Lee will be back. Sefarian-Jenkins will be back. Westbrook should have another good year of experience under his belt to roll into 2019. Chark will hopefully have the rookie jitters shaken off going into next year's training camp. And we still might be able to pull some more talent at WR through free agency.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

During this offseason I'd hope to bring in two Oline guys in the first 5 rounds (starting guard + some kind of tackle) , then maybe trade after the draft for a tackle with a year left on his deal or something.  

Go way overboard loading on the Oline. You rarely ever seen an NFL team that says "we actually have too many good Oline guys"

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I hope you're right, but personally, I've always seen Cam as a better fit at RT. Even if he turns out to be an average LT, I'll be happy though. We don't need stars on the O-Line, we just need a cohesive unit with no weak links.

Eh you are still facing elite pass rushers at RT and right side and Cam has played almost every snap of his career as a LT. 

He has balance and technique issues at LT, moving him to RT is only going to make that worse as he'd be forced to learn completely new movement patterns and sets.

He faces speed rushers at LT and he just doesn't have the movement and footwork to be everything you need in a LT. Moving him to the right side would pit him against more bull rushers and IMO, that's more the type of defenders he's built to match up with.

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He faces speed rushers at LT and he just doesn't have the movement and footwork to be everything you need in a LT. Moving him to the right side would pit him against more bull rushers and IMO, that's more the type of defenders he's built to match up with.

And Von Miller, Mack, Ford, and a lot more speed rushers that all line up on the right side now. There is little to no difference between the two tackle spots nowadays, as people smarter than us have been preaching for years. He'll have the same problems there, if you don't think he can stack up at LT (which is a fair concern that I wholeheartedly share) then you shouldn't really be arguing that he moves to RT that's just reshuffling deck chairs. He should replace Cann IMO.

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Swing tackle more important than a #1 WR, lmaoooo.

Based on this season he's not wrong though.

We were all pretty happy with how Wells was playing after Robinson got hurt. There was little to no drop off when Cam got hurt (and dare I say we might have gotten better). We have a perfectly fine swing tackle already.

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Based on this season he's not wrong though.

We were all pretty happy with how Wells was playing after Robinson got hurt. There was little to no drop off when Cam got hurt (and dare I say we might have gotten better). We have a perfectly fine swing tackle already.

Wells was solid but definitely gave up pressure.  I can't say I was "happy" by any stretch.  Besides - there's nothing to really compare his performance to. 

How can you judge "drop off" after Cam only played 4 and a half quarters of football? We don't really have any barometer on where Cam was at in year 2 of his career because he went down to injury so quickly.

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We were all pretty happy with how Wells was playing after Robinson got hurt. There was little to no drop off when Cam got hurt (and dare I say we might have gotten better). We have a perfectly fine swing tackle already.

Wells was solid but definitely gave up pressure.  I can't say I was "happy" by any stretch.  Besides - there's nothing to really compare his performance to. 

How can you judge "drop off" after Cam only played 4 and a half quarters of football? We don't really have any barometer on where Cam was at in year 2 of his career because he went down to injury so quickly.

Well we do have a rookie seasons and several more quarters worth of preseasons struggles to judge on as well. And it's kind of dubious that Cam's injury was because he got abused twice by Trey Flowers in like 4 snaps so badly that they both got hurt.

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Wells was solid but definitely gave up pressure.  I can't say I was "happy" by any stretch.  Besides - there's nothing to really compare his performance to. 

How can you judge "drop off" after Cam only played 4 and a half quarters of football? We don't really have any barometer on where Cam was at in year 2 of his career because he went down to injury so quickly.

Well we do have a rookie seasons and several more quarters worth of preseasons struggles to judge on as well. And it's kind of dubious that Cam's injury was because he got abused twice by Trey Flowers in like 4 snaps so badly that they both got hurt.

Sure. I don't weight that as heavily as you do.  

The kid showed some weaknesses in his game; granted. But I haven't seen enough of these "struggles" you reference to assume his best outcome is playing RG. 

I'm all about the team getting the best five guys out there, and if that means drafting a guy that may supplant Cam at LT - that's more than fine with me.  I'm just not convinced we're there yet.

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During this offseason I'd hope to bring in two Oline guys in the first 5 rounds (starting guard + some kind of tackle) , then maybe trade after the draft for a tackle with a year left on his deal or something.  

Go way overboard loading on the Oline. You rarely ever seen an NFL team that says "we actually have too many good Oline guys"

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Eh you are still facing elite pass rushers at RT and right side and Cam has played almost every snap of his career as a LT. 

He has balance and technique issues at LT, moving him to RT is only going to make that worse as he'd be forced to learn completely new movement patterns and sets.

He faces speed rushers at LT and he just doesn't have the movement and footwork to be everything you need in a LT. Moving him to the right side would pit him against more bull rushers and IMO, that's more the type of defenders he's built to match up with.

Not at all.  

Think about it, Cam has taken thousands of thousands of reps as LT throughout his career. He's essentially only played on the left side.   

Now consider the technique and balance issues he has on the left as a pass protector. Moving him makes those way way worse and he'll still be facing elite pass rushers there.. 

Listen to any lineman talk about moving sides from left to right. Even left guards going to right guards can struggle for the simple reason that it's opposite movement patterns they haven't refined. Some good tackles can do it, but generally they have played there before and have very good technique and balance.

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