Amazing how much the press seems to love Bush after his death solely in the name of insulting Trump. Where was this love in 1992?

That's incorrect.  A lot of news has been centered around Bush's life of serving and placing his life on the line for this country, something the current president had managed to elude as he dodged the draft 6x

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He was one of the last presidents actually willing to work with the other side. That is all but a thing of the past now. That hasn't happened in like 13 years. It's also telling of his personality that Democrats like Obama and Bill Clinton ended up being friends with him. RIP.

Disagree.  I think Clinton and GW Bush worked well with the other party.  The fallout came when the republicans refused to work with Obama.  As such, the Dems have mirrored that idiotic approach by attempting to veto every good and bad policy our current president presents.

Clinton worked very well with the Republicans, but that was longer than 13 years ago. W. started out working well with the Democrats, but after the Gulf war started and there was no evidence of weapons of mass destruction, they seemed to lose trust in him and that is when the divide began. Anyway, it only got worse with Obama and the Republicans and now, we are at an all-time low with Trump and the Democrats.

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He was one of the last presidents actually willing to work with the other side. That is all but a thing of the past now. That hasn't happened in like 13 years. It's also telling of his personality that Democrats like Obama and Bill Clinton ended up being friends with him. RIP.

He worked with the other side and they turned on him at the first opportunity, thereby making him the last one term president.  

He was a good man.  No one should ever question that he put the country ahead of the party.  It is such a sad situation we are in now.

As soon as Bush signed a budget that included a tax increase, Newt Gingrich ran back to Capitol Hill and stirred up the conservative wing of the Republican party, giving birth to the political tribalism we have today. As a result, we got Clinton, who continued Bush's economic policies, balanced the budget and ushered in a period of prosperity.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

Amazing how much the press seems to love Bush after his death solely in the name of insulting Trump. Where was this love in 1992?

You are typically overstating the coverage, but the contrast in styles between George H.W. Bush and Donald Trump is hard to ignore. I agree some talking heads have hammered on the point, but Trump brought it on himself by being a embarrassment to the country. To Trump's credit, he has behaved properly in regards to the passing of a former president.

---

If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

Amazing how much the press seems to love Bush after his death solely in the name of insulting Trump. Where was this love in 1992?

Specifically in 1992, Bush reverted to a lot of divisive campaign rhetoric and even let Pat Buchanan give some of his message.
He governed fairly and well.
He campaigned divisively and poorly.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Amazing how much the press seems to love Bush after his death solely in the name of insulting Trump. Where was this love in 1992?

Tied up in a presidential campaign that got ugly. Some men, it turns out, deserve respect. Aside from the CNN hit piece, the articles I've seen have been respectful.

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So Stroud turned a thread about Bush into one about Trump?

Classic.

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He worked with the other side and they turned on him at the first opportunity, thereby making him the last one term president.  

He was a good man.  No one should ever question that he put the country ahead of the party.  It is such a sad situation we are in now.

As soon as Bush signed a budget that included a tax increase, Newt Gingrich ran back to Capitol Hill and stirred up the conservative wing of the Republican party, giving birth to the political tribalism we have today. As a result, we got Clinton, who continued Bush's economic policies, balanced the budget and ushered in a period of prosperity.

Interesting that we both agree that this was the genesis of today's ills yet we differ on whom is to blame.  As I saw it Newt was correct in that he predicted the dem's would use the compromise against President GHW Bush.  Looking back almost every political add Clinton and the democratic party put up was Bush stating the "Read my lips, no new taxes" speech, followed by the line "He can't be trusted".  

As for Clinton balancing the budget, horse feathers!  With all do respect one of the biggest lies the dems tell themselves is that Clinton balanced the budget.  Projections do not equal a balanced budget.  Dot.com bubbles burst and real estate corrections occur.   As long as base line budgeting is in effect there will never be a balanced budget.  When there is a zero increase in a departments budget and it is considered a cut we have an issue with honesty and integrity.  Furthermore when the media perpetuates that lie as they have done adnauseam years prior to Trump's election, then our society is doomed.

---

Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

As soon as Bush signed a budget that included a tax increase, Newt Gingrich ran back to Capitol Hill and stirred up the conservative wing of the Republican party, giving birth to the political tribalism we have today. As a result, we got Clinton, who continued Bush's economic policies, balanced the budget and ushered in a period of prosperity.

Interesting that we both agree that this was the genesis of today's ills yet we differ on whom is to blame.  As I saw it Newt was correct in that he predicted the dem's would use the compromise against President GHW Bush.  Looking back almost every political add Clinton and the democratic party put up was Bush stating the "Read my lips, no new taxes" speech, followed by the line "He can't be trusted".  

As for Clinton balancing the budget, horse feathers!  With all do respect one of the biggest lies the dems tell themselves is that Clinton balanced the budget.  Projections do not equal a balanced budget.  Dot.com bubbles burst and real estate corrections occur.   As long as base line budgeting is in effect there will never be a balanced budget.  When there is a zero increase in a departments budget and it is considered a cut we have an issue with honesty and integrity.  Furthermore when the media perpetuates that lie as they have done adnauseam years prior to Trump's election, then our society is doomed.

On the specific points you made I agree with you, but in the bigger picture, the chapter that our children and grandchildren are going to read in their High School history class about the political tribalism of today is it going to have photographs, first of Gingrich then of Trump.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Amazing how much the press seems to love Bush after his death solely in the name of insulting Trump. Where was this love in 1992?

That's incorrect.  A lot of news has been centered around Bush's life of serving and placing his life on the line for this country, something the current president had managed to elude as he dodged the draft 6x

---

He was one of the last presidents actually willing to work with the other side. That is all but a thing of the past now. That hasn't happened in like 13 years. It's also telling of his personality that Democrats like Obama and Bill Clinton ended up being friends with him. RIP.

Disagree.  I think Clinton and GW Bush worked well with the other party.  The fallout came when the republicans refused to work with Obama.  As such, the Dems have mirrored that idiotic approach by attempting to veto every good and bad policy our current president presents.

Obama, and the democrats, didn't exactly work with the republicans, either. 

He didn't forge relationships and tried to push law through without help. Those laws he did push seldom offered consolations or balance between party goals. He'd also demonize those who disagreed with him. Of course they're going to rebel; he made no effort reach across party lines.

It's no doubt worse today than before, but that is the natural course of things.

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Interesting that we both agree that this was the genesis of today's ills yet we differ on whom is to blame.  As I saw it Newt was correct in that he predicted the dem's would use the compromise against President GHW Bush.  Looking back almost every political add Clinton and the democratic party put up was Bush stating the "Read my lips, no new taxes" speech, followed by the line "He can't be trusted".  

As for Clinton balancing the budget, horse feathers!  With all do respect one of the biggest lies the dems tell themselves is that Clinton balanced the budget.  Projections do not equal a balanced budget.  Dot.com bubbles burst and real estate corrections occur.   As long as base line budgeting is in effect there will never be a balanced budget.  When there is a zero increase in a departments budget and it is considered a cut we have an issue with honesty and integrity.  Furthermore when the media perpetuates that lie as they have done adnauseam years prior to Trump's election, then our society is doomed.

On the specific points you made I agree with you, but in the bigger picture, the chapter that our children and grandchildren are going to read in their High School history class about the political tribalism of today is it going to have photographs, first of Gingrich then of Trump.

Of course, but that's because the publishing companies and school boards, controlled by the left, won't show people like LBJ and Tip O'Neal in the truly partisan fashion in which they operated. History, as it's "taught" in public schools, is only unkind to the Right.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

On the specific points you made I agree with you, but in the bigger picture, the chapter that our children and grandchildren are going to read in their High School history class about the political tribalism of today is it going to have photographs, first of Gingrich then of Trump.

Of course, but that's because the publishing companies and school boards, controlled by the left, won't show people like LBJ and Tip O'Neal in the truly partisan fashion in which they operated. History, as it's "taught" in public schools, is only unkind to the Right.

Have right-wingers always been this sensitive, always playing the victim?

You may want to consider the reason you feel the need to be so touchy and sensitive. When did this middle-aged white man angst begin? Why so much pouting and woe is me? If you feel so superior to "them" why don't you feel as if your policies and arguments are worth defending? Most conservatives do. But "populists" seem to think they need to be the bully/victim, lacking self-esteem.

Perhaps you need more than love of money to be your guiding principle.

---

The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

As for Clinton balancing the budget, horse feathers!  With all do respect one of the biggest lies the dems tell themselves is that Clinton balanced the budget.  Projections do not equal a balanced budget.  Dot.com bubbles burst and real estate corrections occur.   As long as base line budgeting is in effect there will never be a balanced budget.  When there is a zero increase in a departments budget and it is considered a cut we have an issue with honesty and integrity.  Furthermore when the media perpetuates that lie as they have done adnauseam years prior to Trump's election, then our society is doomed.

Except that Clinton did balance the budget. The dot-com bubble burst towards the end and screwed W over, but there's no denying that for all of Clinton's other shortcomings (like, you know, the whole "being a sexual predator" thing), he did balance out an economy that was in the pooper when he stepped in.

Of course, but that's because the publishing companies and school boards, controlled by the left, won't show people like LBJ and Tip O'Neal in the truly partisan fashion in which they operated. History, as it's "taught" in public schools, is only unkind to the Right.

LBJ was a colossal self-serving douche to the point that if someone showed me a shred of credible evidence, I'd believe that he had played a part in arranging Kennedy's assassination to assure himself a seat in the White House. He escalated the Vietnam War basically because he was pissed off, and while he was outwardly supportive of the civil rights movement, behind the scenes he was 100% against it and wanted to see it crumble. History looking favorably upon him at all is the only evidence you need to see which side was writing the history textbooks back in the '70s and '80s.

---

As soon as Bush signed a budget that included a tax increase, Newt Gingrich ran back to Capitol Hill and stirred up the conservative wing of the Republican party, giving birth to the political tribalism we have today. As a result, we got Clinton, who continued Bush's economic policies, balanced the budget and ushered in a period of prosperity.

Interesting that we both agree that this was the genesis of today's ills yet we differ on whom is to blame.  As I saw it Newt was correct in that he predicted the dem's would use the compromise against President GHW Bush.  Looking back almost every political add Clinton and the democratic party put up was Bush stating the "Read my lips, no new taxes" speech, followed by the line "He can't be trusted".  

As for Clinton balancing the budget, horse feathers!  With all do respect one of the biggest lies the dems tell themselves is that Clinton balanced the budget.  Projections do not equal a balanced budget.  Dot.com bubbles burst and real estate corrections occur.   As long as base line budgeting is in effect there will never be a balanced budget.  When there is a zero increase in a departments budget and it is considered a cut we have an issue with honesty and integrity.  Furthermore when the media perpetuates that lie as they have done adnauseam years prior to Trump's election, then our society is doomed.

Edit:  I was thinking National Debt not annual budget.  While researching to refresh my memory I did stumble across this gem:  https://www.cato.org/publications/commen...nce-budget

Interesting read.  Regardless, I stand corrected.

---

As for Clinton balancing the budget, horse feathers!  With all do respect one of the biggest lies the dems tell themselves is that Clinton balanced the budget.  Projections do not equal a balanced budget.  Dot.com bubbles burst and real estate corrections occur.   As long as base line budgeting is in effect there will never be a balanced budget.  When there is a zero increase in a departments budget and it is considered a cut we have an issue with honesty and integrity.  Furthermore when the media perpetuates that lie as they have done adnauseam years prior to Trump's election, then our society is doomed.

Except that Clinton did balance the budget. The dot-com bubble burst towards the end and screwed W over, but there's no denying that for all of Clinton's other shortcomings (like, you know, the whole "being a sexual predator" thing), he did balance out an economy that was in the pooper when he stepped in.

Of course, but that's because the publishing companies and school boards, controlled by the left, won't show people like LBJ and Tip O'Neal in the truly partisan fashion in which they operated. History, as it's "taught" in public schools, is only unkind to the Right.

LBJ was a colossal self-serving douche to the point that if someone showed me a shred of credible evidence, I'd believe that he had played a part in arranging Kennedy's assassination to assure himself a seat in the White House. He escalated the Vietnam War basically because he was pissed off, and while he was outwardly supportive of the civil rights movement, behind the scenes he was 100% against it and wanted to see it crumble. History looking favorably upon him at all is the only evidence you need to see which side was writing the history textbooks back in the '70s and '80s.

See above post.  Thanks for correcting me.

---

Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

Interesting that we both agree that this was the genesis of today's ills yet we differ on whom is to blame.  As I saw it Newt was correct in that he predicted the dem's would use the compromise against President GHW Bush.  Looking back almost every political add Clinton and the democratic party put up was Bush stating the "Read my lips, no new taxes" speech, followed by the line "He can't be trusted".  

As for Clinton balancing the budget, horse feathers!  With all do respect one of the biggest lies the dems tell themselves is that Clinton balanced the budget.  Projections do not equal a balanced budget.  Dot.com bubbles burst and real estate corrections occur.   As long as base line budgeting is in effect there will never be a balanced budget.  When there is a zero increase in a departments budget and it is considered a cut we have an issue with honesty and integrity.  Furthermore when the media perpetuates that lie as they have done adnauseam years prior to Trump's election, then our society is doomed.

Edit:  I was thinking National Debt not annual budget.  While researching to refresh my memory I did stumble across this gem:  https://www.cato.org/publications/commen...nce-budget

Interesting read.  Regardless, I stand corrected.

---

Except that Clinton did balance the budget. The dot-com bubble burst towards the end and screwed W over, but there's no denying that for all of Clinton's other shortcomings (like, you know, the whole "being a sexual predator" thing), he did balance out an economy that was in the pooper when he stepped in.

LBJ was a colossal self-serving douche to the point that if someone showed me a shred of credible evidence, I'd believe that he had played a part in arranging Kennedy's assassination to assure himself a seat in the White House. He escalated the Vietnam War basically because he was pissed off, and while he was outwardly supportive of the civil rights movement, behind the scenes he was 100% against it and wanted to see it crumble. History looking favorably upon him at all is the only evidence you need to see which side was writing the history textbooks back in the '70s and '80s.

See above post.  Thanks for correcting me.

Wait. Did you just admit you were wrong?!

We got a first for the political section of this board you guys! You are the very first person to ever admit they were wrong over here. BRAVO!

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Of course, but that's because the publishing companies and school boards, controlled by the left, won't show people like LBJ and Tip O'Neal in the truly partisan fashion in which they operated. History, as it's "taught" in public schools, is only unkind to the Right.

Have right-wingers always been this sensitive, always playing the victim?

You may want to consider the reason you feel the need to be so touchy and sensitive. When did this middle-aged white man angst begin? Why so much pouting and woe is me? If you feel so superior to "them" why don't you feel as if your policies and arguments are worth defending? Most conservatives do. But "populists" seem to think they need to be the bully/victim, lacking self-esteem.

Perhaps you need more than love of money to be your guiding principle.

I'm not sure which stomach all your bull [BLEEP] comes from, but that must be one unhealthy cow.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Interesting that we both agree that this was the genesis of today's ills yet we differ on whom is to blame.  As I saw it Newt was correct in that he predicted the dem's would use the compromise against President GHW Bush.  Looking back almost every political add Clinton and the democratic party put up was Bush stating the "Read my lips, no new taxes" speech, followed by the line "He can't be trusted".  

As for Clinton balancing the budget, horse feathers!  With all do respect one of the biggest lies the dems tell themselves is that Clinton balanced the budget.  Projections do not equal a balanced budget.  Dot.com bubbles burst and real estate corrections occur.   As long as base line budgeting is in effect there will never be a balanced budget.  When there is a zero increase in a departments budget and it is considered a cut we have an issue with honesty and integrity.  Furthermore when the media perpetuates that lie as they have done adnauseam years prior to Trump's election, then our society is doomed.

Edit:  I was thinking National Debt not annual budget.  While researching to refresh my memory I did stumble across this gem:  https://www.cato.org/publications/commen...nce-budget

Interesting read.  Regardless, I stand corrected.

---

Except that Clinton did balance the budget. The dot-com bubble burst towards the end and screwed W over, but there's no denying that for all of Clinton's other shortcomings (like, you know, the whole "being a sexual predator" thing), he did balance out an economy that was in the pooper when he stepped in.

LBJ was a colossal self-serving douche to the point that if someone showed me a shred of credible evidence, I'd believe that he had played a part in arranging Kennedy's assassination to assure himself a seat in the White House. He escalated the Vietnam War basically because he was pissed off, and while he was outwardly supportive of the civil rights movement, behind the scenes he was 100% against it and wanted to see it crumble. History looking favorably upon him at all is the only evidence you need to see which side was writing the history textbooks back in the '70s and '80s.

See above post.  Thanks for correcting me.

I'm just glad to have offered you an opportunity to use the phrase "horse feathers".

---

If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

Edit:  I was thinking National Debt not annual budget.  While researching to refresh my memory I did stumble across this gem:  https://www.cato.org/publications/commen...nce-budget

Interesting read.  Regardless, I stand corrected.

---

See above post.  Thanks for correcting me.

I'm just glad to have offered you an opportunity to use the phrase "horse feathers".

LOL  I was channeling my inner Sherman T Potter

---

Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

On the specific points you made I agree with you, but in the bigger picture, the chapter that our children and grandchildren are going to read in their High School history class about the political tribalism of today is it going to have photographs, first of Gingrich then of Trump.

Of course, but that's because the publishing companies and school boards, controlled by the left, won't show people like LBJ and Tip O'Neal in the truly partisan fashion in which they operated. History, as it's "taught" in public schools, is only unkind to the Right.

Do you have a link to anything supporting this claim, like to a textbook or curriculum guide used in, say, Duval County?

---

If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

The eulogy given by President George W. Bush regarding his father was spot on.  The man was probably the last "decent" and respectful person in politics, more specifically The White House.

Regarding the divide that we see today, I think it started when George W. Bush was first elected.  President Clinton did in fact reach across the aisle.  He and Newt Gingrich formed a certain bond during his presidency that is in no way matched today.  I would encourage people to maybe read The Pact which details how they worked together even though they disagreed with each other.  I do think that this was pretty much the end of bipartisanship.

Contrary to what is parroted often, President Clinton never "balanced the budget" nor was there ever a "surplus".  The President alone can't and doesn't do such things, it's actually congress with The President signing off on it.

When George W. Bush took office is when it started to get "hostile".  Since then both major political parties became more and more divisive.  It started with the "hanging chads" debacle in that election.  The same tired argument was made by the left... he didn't win the popular vote.

The bottom line is President George H. W. Bush was a good man and a good public servant to this country.  His death and remembering him should not turn into a partisan bickering pissing contest.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

He worked with the other side and they turned on him at the first opportunity, thereby making him the last one term president.  

He was a good man.  No one should ever question that he put the country ahead of the party.  It is such a sad situation we are in now.

As soon as Bush signed a budget that included a tax increase, Newt Gingrich ran back to Capitol Hill and stirred up the conservative wing of the Republican party, giving birth to the political tribalism we have today. As a result, we got Clinton, who continued Bush's economic policies, balanced the budget and ushered in a period of prosperity.

Thanks to Newt Gingrich and the republican congress that took over in 1994. 

To his credit, Clinton recongized the benefit of working with the other side.  He also recognized that he could take credit for the success, which is fine.  But, for those who think Trump has debased the office of the presidency, the Clinton presidency would make that almost look like child's play, whether you're talking about renting out the Lincoln bedroom for big cash donations, or selling out our missile technology to China, or hosting coffees with Clinton where big money donors could hang with the president.  

We won't even get started on the whole Lewinsky thing.

The fact that GHWB could look beyond that and befriend Clinton amazes me to this day, but the Clinton and Bush families are extremely tight.  I guess maybe BLT can provide us with a conspiracy to explain that.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.