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Ed Oliver

#1

I know we don't really need a DT but if Oliver is there at 7 do we consider him? This is a guy who was considered a lock for the #1 or #2 pick. Especially if Haskins is gone there's not really another guy who could have as much of an impact as Oliver imo
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#2

I trade down if Haskins is gone. Somebody might want Oliver, but we have absolutely no need for another 3 technique.
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#3

(02-06-2019, 03:50 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: I trade down if Haskins is gone. Somebody might want Oliver, but we have absolutely no need for another 3 technique.

Agreed. But Coughlin would take him.
"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."
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#4

(02-06-2019, 03:50 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: I trade down if Haskins is gone. Somebody might want Oliver, but we have absolutely no need for another 3 technique.

Not really true.
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#5

(02-06-2019, 09:05 PM)JackCity Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 03:50 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: I trade down if Haskins is gone. Somebody might want Oliver, but we have absolutely no need for another 3 technique.

Not really true.

How so? We drafted Taven Bryan and moved him inside. Even if we release Malik Jackson, (which is expected), we just spent a first round pick on Taven Bryan.
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#6
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2019, 12:40 AM by JackCity.)

(02-06-2019, 11:39 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 09:05 PM)JackCity Wrote: Not really true.

How so? We drafted Taven Bryan and moved him inside. Even if we release Malik Jackson, (which is expected), we just spent a first round pick on Taven Bryan.

A 3 tech rotation of Abry Jones and Taven Bryan isn't ideal , especially given how raw Bryan is. You can mix Calais in there some but still there's clearly  a place on the roster for an elite Dline prospect like Oliver. 

Now do I think that's a good use of draft resources atm? Nope , I'd prefer other players/positions but it's not in the "absolutely not a need" category.
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#7

(02-07-2019, 12:40 AM)JackCity Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 11:39 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: How so? We drafted Taven Bryan and moved him inside. Even if we release Malik Jackson, (which is expected), we just spent a first round pick on Taven Bryan.

A 3 tech rotation of Abry Jones and Taven Bryan isn't ideal , especially given how raw Bryan is. You can mix Calais in there some but still there's clearly  a place on the roster for an elite Dline prospect like Oliver. 

Now do I think that's a good use of draft resources atm? Nope , I'd prefer other players/positions but it's not in the "absolutely not a need"  category.

Jones is the NT and Dareus will be the one who rotates at 3T with Bryan, as well as Campbell since he plays all along that DL.
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#8

(02-07-2019, 12:46 AM)Eric1 Wrote:
(02-07-2019, 12:40 AM)JackCity Wrote: A 3 tech rotation of Abry Jones and Taven Bryan isn't ideal , especially given how raw Bryan is. You can mix Calais in there some but still there's clearly  a place on the roster for an elite Dline prospect like Oliver. 

Now do I think that's a good use of draft resources atm? Nope , I'd prefer other players/positions but it's not in the "absolutely not a need"  category.

Jones is the NT and Dareus will be the one who rotates at 3T with Bryan, as well as Campbell since he plays all along that DL

Yeah I guess when they were paired up Abry was mostly 1 tech. Point remains similar though , Dareus isn't close to his old self as a pass rusher + lord knows when/if Bryan will be ready to be a factor. Calais of course mixes in but overall that interior pass rush is way less scary with Jackson gone.  

But that also leads on to the reality that Oliver isn't quite there as a pass rusher either despite being vastly more athletic vs bad opposition..
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#9

(02-07-2019, 12:40 AM)JackCity Wrote:
(02-06-2019, 11:39 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: How so? We drafted Taven Bryan and moved him inside. Even if we release Malik Jackson, (which is expected), we just spent a first round pick on Taven Bryan.

A 3 tech rotation of Abry Jones and Taven Bryan isn't ideal , especially given how raw Bryan is. You can mix Calais in there some but still there's clearly  a place on the roster for an elite Dline prospect like Oliver. 

Now do I think that's a good use of draft resources atm? Nope , I'd prefer other players/positions but it's not in the "absolutely not a need"  category.

Abry Jones is a NT, not a 3 technique.
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#10

(02-07-2019, 05:24 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(02-07-2019, 12:40 AM)JackCity Wrote: A 3 tech rotation of Abry Jones and Taven Bryan isn't ideal , especially given how raw Bryan is. You can mix Calais in there some but still there's clearly  a place on the roster for an elite Dline prospect like Oliver. 

Now do I think that's a good use of draft resources atm? Nope , I'd prefer other players/positions but it's not in the "absolutely not a need"  category.

Abry Jones is a NT, not a 3 technique.

He's played both , same as Dareus but yeah I guess Dareus will be the 3 tech day one with our current personnel.
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#11

(02-07-2019, 09:02 AM)JackCity Wrote:
(02-07-2019, 05:24 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Abry Jones is a NT, not a 3 technique.

He's played both , same as Dareus but yeah I guess Dareus will be the 3 tech day one with our current personnel.

Bryan will be the 3 tech day 1
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#12

(02-07-2019, 01:19 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(02-07-2019, 09:02 AM)JackCity Wrote: He's played both , same as Dareus but yeah I guess Dareus will be the 3 tech day one with our current personnel.

Bryan will be the 3 tech day 1


Doubtful barring a massive improvement in every single area
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#13

(02-07-2019, 03:18 PM)JackCity Wrote:
(02-07-2019, 01:19 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Bryan will be the 3 tech day 1


Doubtful barring a massive improvement in every single area

Nobody is saying Bryan is the right choice or even a good player. He was a 2018 first round pick though and if Jackson is released or traded, he will be the starting 3 technique.
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#14

(02-07-2019, 04:17 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(02-07-2019, 03:18 PM)JackCity Wrote: Doubtful barring a massive improvement in every single area

Nobody is saying Bryan is the right choice or even a good player. He was a 2018 first round pick though and if Jackson is released or traded, he will be the starting 3 technique.

Yep, he showed improvement toward the end of the season too.
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#15

(02-07-2019, 03:18 PM)JackCity Wrote:
(02-07-2019, 01:19 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Bryan will be the 3 tech day 1


Doubtful barring a massive improvement in every single area

He consistently got better as the season went on. He is only going to get better.
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#16
(This post was last modified: 02-08-2019, 01:40 AM by JackCity.)

(02-07-2019, 04:17 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(02-07-2019, 03:18 PM)JackCity Wrote: Doubtful barring a massive improvement in every single area

Nobody is saying Bryan is the right choice or even a good player. He was a 2018 first round pick though and if Jackson is released or traded, he will be the starting 3 technique.

I'm not so sure about that atm

(02-08-2019, 12:39 AM)Dimson Wrote:
(02-07-2019, 03:18 PM)JackCity Wrote: Doubtful barring a massive improvement in every single area

He consistently got better as the season went on. He is only going to get better.

Yeah he's a project player so was always a 3-4 year thing with him but based on everything we've seen right now he's miles away from a starting interior job
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#17

(02-08-2019, 01:39 AM)JackCity Wrote:
(02-07-2019, 04:17 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Nobody is saying Bryan is the right choice or even a good player. He was a 2018 first round pick though and if Jackson is released or traded, he will be the starting 3 technique.

I'm not so sure about that atm

(02-08-2019, 12:39 AM)Dimson Wrote: He consistently got better as the season went on. He is only going to get better.

Yeah he's a project player so was always a 3-4 year thing with him but based on everything we've seen right now he's miles away from a starting interior job

You couldn't be more wrong and I'm sorry man, but you don't have a clue about what you're trying to talk about. Bryan constantly flashed at 3T when they finally put him there and that's why they started playing Jackson outside at DE in the back half of the season.
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#18
(This post was last modified: 02-08-2019, 03:28 AM by JackCity.)

(02-08-2019, 02:40 AM)Eric1 Wrote:
(02-08-2019, 01:39 AM)JackCity Wrote: I'm not so sure about that atm


Yeah he's a project player so was always a 3-4 year thing with him but based on everything we've seen right now he's miles away from a starting interior job

You couldn't be more wrong and I'm sorry man, but you don't have a clue about what you're trying to talk about. Bryan constantly flashed at 3T when they finally put him there and that's why they started playing Jackson outside at DE in the back half of the season.

Please demonstrate how Taven Byran looked like a starting caliber tackle this year. "Constantly flashed" is not how anyone would have described Taven Byrans rookie year,even at 3 tech. He had two or three splash plays and otherwise looked totally lost. 

Yeah Taven always should have been at 3 tech vs outside. I still like him and know he'll get better, its just wildly incorrect to think he's starting caliber after his rookie season alone.
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#19

(02-08-2019, 03:18 AM)JackCity Wrote:
(02-08-2019, 02:40 AM)Eric1 Wrote: You couldn't be more wrong and I'm sorry man, but you don't have a clue about what you're trying to talk about. Bryan constantly flashed at 3T when they finally put him there and that's why they started playing Jackson outside at DE in the back half of the season.

Please demonstrate how Taven Byran looked like a starting caliber tackle this year. "Constantly flashed" is not how anyone would have described Taven Byrans rookie year,even at 3 tech. He had two or three splash plays and otherwise looked totally lost. 

Yeah Taven always should have been at 3 tech vs outside. I still like him and know he'll get better, its just wildly incorrect to think he's starting caliber after his rookie season alone.

Nobody said anything about him being a starting caliber 3T in his rookie season... I said he constantly flashed while at 3T, which he really only got time at towards the end of this past season. Maybe you only seen two or three splash plays on highlights, but he showed off that ridiculous first step and pure overall strength plenty of times.

He most definitely has plenty of hand placements/techniques he has to work on, but he absolutely showed some rare abilities that you can't teach.

At the end of the day, Bryan was a BPA pick at #29 and not a top 7 pick... You take a DT #7 overall, he better instantly be one of the best players on this Defense, but we all know that isn't going to be the case. Which is why that'd be the worst possible pick this team could make besides maybe DE at #7.
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#20

(02-08-2019, 03:50 AM)Eric1 Wrote:
(02-08-2019, 03:18 AM)JackCity Wrote: Please demonstrate how Taven Byran looked like a starting caliber tackle this year. "Constantly flashed" is not how anyone would have described Taven Byrans rookie year,even at 3 tech. He had two or three splash plays and otherwise looked totally lost. 

Yeah Taven always should have been at 3 tech vs outside. I still like him and know he'll get better, its just wildly incorrect to think he's starting caliber after his rookie season alone.

Nobody said anything about him being a starting caliber 3T in his rookie season... I said he constantly flashed while at 3T, which he really only got time at towards the end of this past season. Maybe you only seen two or three splash plays on highlights, but he showed off that ridiculous first step and pure overall strength plenty of times.

He most definitely has plenty of hand placements/techniques he has to work on, but he absolutely showed some rare abilities that you can't teach.

At the end of the day, Bryan was a BPA pick at #29 and not a top 7 pick... You take a DT #7 overall, he better instantly be one of the best players on this Defense, but we all know that isn't going to be the case. Which is why that'd be the worst possible pick this team could make besides maybe DE at #7.

Thats exactly the point I made above, he isn't close to being a starting caliber tackle "yet".  He had a few splash plays but also looked totally lost , doesn't understand how to read blocks , doesn't understand leverage, how to get off doubles etc etc. He's a guy you draft acknowledging that year 1 and year 2 will be developmental years.  

Like every single draft pick he was drafted to fill a need along with being one of the highest on their board. The future need was 3 tech.  

Yeah I don't agree with that draft logic at all. Outside of Calais (who's old and will be gone in 2 years at best) and Yannick, who are our edge rushers? You might not wanna take a DE over some positions but its absolutely an area we need good talent at + there will be some really good guys available at 7.   I can name at least 5 positions I'd prefer to take a DE at #7 over
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