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Bortles will be a top 10 to 15 QB....Let's debate

#1

I have a strong belief, that after the Elites leave the league in 2 to 3 years, BB5 will be a top 15 QB.  I look at Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Big Ben, and Phillip Rivers as the Elites, and the likes of Cousins, Foles, and other QBs 30 or older as above average at best but nothing special.  Once the Elites retire i do feel that the rest of the leagues QBs will not be all that much better than BB5 statistically outside of maybe 5 to 10 tops.  This is not to be confused with the current BB5 statistics using a run first approach with no pass catchers to rely on for the clutch completions needed to be made when the run game struggles.  

I have seen too many QBs with catered offensive gameplans to utilize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses.  Its almost comical that with superstar weapons on different teams on offense they still cater their gameplan and scheme around the young QB.  Yet, with Blake and no top pass catching personnel we dont even put forth professional effort to do the same.  Every team has injuries and whatnot but this team just blows my mind.  With a restricted gameplan i saw a QB put up better numbers than pass first offensive QBs the year before last and even this year when called upon in certain big games.  Its mind boggling and the repeated excuse is the QB cant read the whole field.  

I've seen Blake put up over 400 on a pats D with nothing at receiver.  I've seen him have consistent games late in the season with the best QB stats during that span with still nothing at receiver or TE.  Yet, with all the restrictions put on him all i hear is he sucks regardless.  I know the media is dumb most of the time but the actually majority of fans of the team not seeing these things is lost on me.  The GM failed in getting OLine help and depth after the playoff run just getting norwell.  He also did ok at TE getting ASJ which didnt work out well and then bombed on WR getting Donte smh.  With the mindset of hoping for no injuries or only a few and thinking we'll make a repeated run was just stupid.  

Give me a top 10 to 15 receiver with a decent TE and pass oriented gameplan and BB5 is easily top 10 to 15.  Why am i wrong, i'm waiting.
Season Tix, Section 409

 
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#2

Maybe in the AAF
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#3

A top 64 qb for sure.
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#4

(02-11-2019, 02:38 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: Maybe in the AAF

Haha. He would be the best QB in the AAF.
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#5

(02-11-2019, 02:38 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: Maybe in the AAF

Ok, back from lunch.  

Foreal though.  If you said your QB was trash, as an OC, and then he put up a four game stretch as the best QB in the league and also helped you to the AFCCG.  Then, the following year had another 400 game plus a couple other good games, do you think you would still have a job or anyone who cares for your opinion.
Season Tix, Section 409

 
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#6

For Blake to post at least two consecutive seasons as a top 15 QB, he'll need a perfect storm to come together involving these three things:
  • A top 5 O-Line 
  • A top 5 receiving corps bolstered by a sure handed TE and very good run game
  • A coach/coordinator combo smart enough to get production consistently from a QB with wildly inconsistent accuracy, spurts of bad decision-making, and a general difficulty reading defenses. 

Odds of all of that ^ happening?

  I probably have a better chance at winning the lottery and being struck by lightning in the same week.
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#7

Lol Top 10-15 QB. REACH. Off the top of my head, QBs who are 30 and under that I would take before Blake?

Mayfield, Darnold, Mahomes, Jackson, Luck, Watson, Haskins, Trevor Lawerence, Fromm, Tua, Wentz, Goff, Trubisky, Wilson, Jimmy G, Rosen, Dak.... This isn't even including other college QBs who could be good down the road that we don't really know about
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#8

It's been five years now. I think we can pretty definitively say Bortles is average at best.
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#9

(02-11-2019, 03:18 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: Number #3 is especially key. I don't see any improvement -- not after five years in Jax. Even in 2017, when he had a healthy line, he was just okay.  Maybe he'd do better outside of Jax.

For Blake to post at least two consecutive seasons as a top 15 QB, he'll need a perfect storm to come together involving these three things:
  • A top 5 O-Line 
  • A top 5 receiving corps bolstered by a sure handed TE and very good run game
  • A coach/coordinator combo smart enough to get production consistently from a QB with wildly inconsistent accuracy, spurts of bad decision-making, and a general difficulty reading defenses. 

Odds of all of that ^ happening?

  I probably have a better chance at winning the lottery and being struck by lightning in the same week.

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#10
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2019, 03:53 PM by TheO-LineMatters.)

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#11

(02-11-2019, 03:18 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: For Blake to post at least two consecutive seasons as a top 15 QB, he'll need a perfect storm to come together involving these three things:
  • A top 5 O-Line 
  • A top 5 receiving corps bolstered by a sure handed TE and very good run game
  • A coach/coordinator combo smart enough to get production consistently from a QB with wildly inconsistent accuracy, spurts of bad decision-making, and a general difficulty reading defenses. 

Odds of all of that ^ happening?

  I probably have a better chance at winning the lottery and being struck by lightning in the same week.

The last sentence made me lol.  Honestly, i think he needs a top 15 receiver period and a sure handed TE.   His accuracy and bad decision making, i feel, contributes to him not being a top 5 future hof qb and no offensive gameplan help from the OC.  Everything doesnt need to be perfect but not trying to help your QB is ridiculous.  I mean MM in our same division got handfed an offensive scheme for him to thrive and struggled as much or worse than BB5 at times.  I just dont understand why the odds are soo far off from a QB with no help still shining at times, compared to a QB with more than enough help who looks almost the same or slighty better.
Season Tix, Section 409

 
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#12

(02-11-2019, 03:30 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: Lol Top 10-15 QB. REACH. Off the top of my head, QBs who are 30 and under that I would take before Blake?

Mayfield,  Darnold, Mahomes, Jackson, Luck, Watson, Haskins, Trevor Lawerence, Fromm, Tua, Wentz, Goff, Trubisky, Wilson, Jimmy G, Rosen, Dak.... This isn't even including other college QBs who could be good down the road that we don't really know about

So, its a reach for me to say he's top 10 to 15 down the road, but its a sure thing for you to name college QBs better with no experience.  Not to mention the offensive weapons on the offenses of the current QBs you mention outside of maybe Jimmie G slightly.  This is why i cant take you fans seriously.
Season Tix, Section 409

 
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#13

(02-11-2019, 03:58 PM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote:
(02-11-2019, 03:18 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: For Blake to post at least two consecutive seasons as a top 15 QB, he'll need a perfect storm to come together involving these three things:
  • A top 5 O-Line 
  • A top 5 receiving corps bolstered by a sure handed TE and very good run game
  • A coach/coordinator combo smart enough to get production consistently from a QB with wildly inconsistent accuracy, spurts of bad decision-making, and a general difficulty reading defenses. 

Odds of all of that ^ happening?

  I probably have a better chance at winning the lottery and being struck by lightning in the same week.

The last sentence made me lol.  Honestly, i think he needs a top 15 receiver period and a sure handed TE.   His accuracy and bad decision making, i feel, contributes to him not being a top 5 future hof qb and no offensive gameplan help from the OC.  Everything doesnt need to be perfect but not trying to help your QB is ridiculous.  I mean MM in our same division got handfed an offensive scheme for him to thrive and struggled as much or worse than BB5 at times.  I just dont understand why the odds are soo far off from a QB with no help still shining at times, compared to a QB with more than enough help who looks almost the same or slighty better.

Because you don't seem to have a clear grasp on just how badly Blake Bortles throws the football. 

Mariota is not worth comparing.  He's got his fair share of games in which his accuracy and decision making take heavy downturns as well. 

Blake Bortles would absolutely require all of the things I mentioned to remain a starter on an NFL team -  and even that team would likely seek to upgrade after a couple of years of watching Blake struggle.
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#14

(02-11-2019, 04:03 PM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote:
(02-11-2019, 03:30 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: Lol Top 10-15 QB. REACH. Off the top of my head, QBs who are 30 and under that I would take before Blake?

Mayfield,  Darnold, Mahomes, Jackson, Luck, Watson, Haskins, Trevor Lawerence, Fromm, Tua, Wentz, Goff, Trubisky, Wilson, Jimmy G, Rosen, Dak.... This isn't even including other college QBs who could be good down the road that we don't really know about

So, its a reach for me to say he's top 10 to 15 down the road, but its a sure thing for you to name college QBs better with no experience.  Not to mention the offensive weapons on the offenses of the current QBs you mention outside of maybe Jimmie G slightly.  This is why i cant take you fans seriously.
If you had a choice between Trevor Lawerence and Blake, you would choose Blake? 

I'm taking all of those QBs over Blake because I believe they are currently better or could be better than him. Those college QBs project to be better than Blake and I'm willing to take that risk rather beat a dead horse with Blake.
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#15

(02-11-2019, 04:30 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(02-11-2019, 03:58 PM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote: The last sentence made me lol.  Honestly, i think he needs a top 15 receiver period and a sure handed TE.   His accuracy and bad decision making, i feel, contributes to him not being a top 5 future hof qb and no offensive gameplan help from the OC.  Everything doesnt need to be perfect but not trying to help your QB is ridiculous.  I mean MM in our same division got handfed an offensive scheme for him to thrive and struggled as much or worse than BB5 at times.  I just dont understand why the odds are soo far off from a QB with no help still shining at times, compared to a QB with more than enough help who looks almost the same or slighty better.

Because you don't seem to have a clear grasp on just how badly Blake Bortles throws the football. 

Mariota is not worth comparing.  He's got his fair share of games in which his accuracy and decision making take heavy downturns as well. 

Blake Bortles would absolutely require all of the things I mentioned to remain a starter on an NFL team -  and even that team would likely seek to upgrade after a couple of years of watching Blake struggle.

Maybe i dont.  I know he isnt a world beater, maybe its still the high from the playoff run; but i think he just needs a decent gameplan and playmakers to win a ship.

(02-11-2019, 04:33 PM)Cleatwood Wrote:
(02-11-2019, 04:03 PM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote: So, its a reach for me to say he's top 10 to 15 down the road, but its a sure thing for you to name college QBs better with no experience.  Not to mention the offensive weapons on the offenses of the current QBs you mention outside of maybe Jimmie G slightly.  This is why i cant take you fans seriously.
If you had a choice between Trevor Lawerence and Blake, you would choose Blake? 

I'm taking all of those QBs over Blake because I believe they are currently better or could be better than him. Those college QBs project to be better than Blake and I'm willing to take that risk rather beat a dead horse with Blake.

I've been right and horribly wrong about college QBs so i never place that bet.  I loved baker, mahomes and wilson.  I also liked manziel and rg3 alot too.
Season Tix, Section 409

 
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#16

(02-11-2019, 04:46 PM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote:
(02-11-2019, 04:30 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: Because you don't seem to have a clear grasp on just how badly Blake Bortles throws the football. 

Mariota is not worth comparing.  He's got his fair share of games in which his accuracy and decision making take heavy downturns as well. 

Blake Bortles would absolutely require all of the things I mentioned to remain a starter on an NFL team -  and even that team would likely seek to upgrade after a couple of years of watching Blake struggle.

Maybe i dont.  I know he isnt a world beater, maybe its still the high from the playoff run; but i think he just needs a decent gameplan and playmakers to win a ship.

(02-11-2019, 04:33 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: If you had a choice between Trevor Lawerence and Blake, you would choose Blake? 

I'm taking all of those QBs over Blake because I believe they are currently better or could be better than him. Those college QBs project to be better than Blake and I'm willing to take that risk rather beat a dead horse with Blake.

I've been right and horribly wrong about college QBs so i never place that bet.  I loved baker, mahomes and wilson.  I also liked manziel and rg3 alot too.
Still a high from the playoff run? His playoff run was blown so out of proportion. He was abysmal against the Bills and if they played anyone but Buffalo, they lose. He threw 1 TD against the Steelers while completing 53% of his passes. He had a decent game against the Pats but still only had 1 TD pass. The playoff run was fun but in the end, it was fools gold for Bortles. 

I appreciate everything he has done for this franchise but it's time to move on. I'll be glad when he's cut because at least then we can argue over a different QB.
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#17

(02-11-2019, 04:56 PM)Cleatwood Wrote:
(02-11-2019, 04:46 PM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote: Maybe i dont.  I know he isnt a world beater, maybe its still the high from the playoff run; but i think he just needs a decent gameplan and playmakers to win a ship.


I've been right and horribly wrong about college QBs so i never place that bet.  I loved baker, mahomes and wilson.  I also liked manziel and rg3 alot too.
Still a high from the playoff run? His playoff run was blown so out of proportion. He was abysmal against the Bills and if they played anyone but Buffalo, they lose. He threw 1 TD against the Steelers while completing 53% of his passes. He had a decent game against the Pats but still only had 1 TD pass. The playoff run was fun but in the end, it was fools gold for Bortles. 

I appreciate everything he has done for this franchise but it's time to move on. I'll be glad when he's cut because at least then we can argue over a different QB.

True.  I dont know if that was the gameplan being predominantly run first or just average at best QB play.  its hard to decide when the team has publicly stated they cant work with his flaws so they just want to run the majority of the game.  If we get Haskins or some other QB that takes over then yes, we'll have a new QB to discuss.
Season Tix, Section 409

 
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#18

If Bortles is a top-15 QB, the NFL needs to seriously re-evaluate its QB rating formula.


With all the morons on this team, it only makes sense we'd keep one around to coach it.

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#19
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2019, 05:36 PM by JagsFansince1995.)

(02-11-2019, 05:28 PM)TJBender Wrote: If Bortles is a top-15 QB, the NFL needs to seriously re-evaluate its QB rating formula
I want the 15 QBs that will be better than Blake once the elites retire.  Only one person has even attempted it being funny.  What active QBs are going to take over the league, and the current Elites are 10 plus years in, so it shouldnt be too hard if the others are so great.
Season Tix, Section 409

 
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#20

(02-11-2019, 05:35 PM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote:
(02-11-2019, 05:28 PM)TJBender Wrote: If Bortles is a top-15 QB, the NFL needs to seriously re-evaluate its QB rating formula
I want the 15 QBs that will be better than Blake once the elites retire.  ...

Active QBs that will undoubtedly play better than Bortles in the next couple of years:

Mahomes
Brees 
Rivers
Luck
Rodgers
Wilson
Goff
Ryan
Rothlisberger
Brady 
Watson
Mayfield
Cousins 
Wentz
Newton
Stafford
Trubisky
Winston (under Arians)
Darnold


QB's that have a high percentage chance of playing better than Bortles in the coming years:

Eli Manning 
Alex Smith (if he heals up)
Joe Flacco
Tannehill
Josh Allen
Josh Rosen
Dak Prescott
Mariota

Plus a whole slew of new QBs from the upcoming '19 and '20 drafts. 

I'm not even dealing with this "when the elites retire" business. They aren't retired and Blake's contract would end before they do anyway. Makes no difference in this discussion of where he lands in the grand scheme of things. He has to compete against them still.
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