Great pick.

Of course people will praise Caldwel when it was only luck that Allen fell to us. Let's see what they do in the rest of the draft.

He still deserves credit for getting the pick right.

Allen was on the board when the Raiders picked, when the Bucs picked and when the Giants picked.

At least two of those teams-Raiders and Giants-could have used an edge rusher and didn't choose Allen.

If Caldwell were as bad as you say, it wouldn't matter if Allen were on the board or not.  He would have botched the pick.

You say it was luck that Allen was on the board?

So what?

How could Caldwell have designed it such that the 6 teams above him passed up Allen?

Credit for not being dumb once again. That's it. 

Too bad you are starting to sound like everyone else here.

---

Btw, Gruden is the worst HC/GM (I know Mayock is the GM but Gruden has the final say) right now and Giants were desperate for a QB, so yeah.

---

Did he kick your dog? He's messed up plenty but to not give him credit when he gets it right looks vindictive to me...

---

Making up

Evidence

Depending on

Information

Available

Thank God I am not a Raiders or Giants fan

Dude... you ain't lying! Six picks last night between the two of them and I swear every pick for the most part felt extremely underwhelming for the value.

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

He still deserves credit for getting the pick right.

Allen was on the board when the Raiders picked, when the Bucs picked and when the Giants picked.

At least two of those teams-Raiders and Giants-could have used an edge rusher and didn't choose Allen.

If Caldwell were as bad as you say, it wouldn't matter if Allen were on the board or not.  He would have botched the pick.

You say it was luck that Allen was on the board?

So what?

How could Caldwell have designed it such that the 6 teams above him passed up Allen?

Credit for not being dumb once again. That's it. 

Too bad you are starting to sound like everyone else here.

---

Btw, Gruden is the worst HC/GM (I know Mayock is the GM but Gruden has the final say) right now and Giants were desperate for a QB, so yeah.

So if he gets a pick right, it's credit for not being dumb, but then if he misses on the pick, then he gets blame for not being smart?

So under what circumstances would he get credit for making a smart pick?  If he makes a pick whose value exceeds the pick number, invariably it's because some team or teams above made a mistake. 

If he makes a pick whose value is equal to the pick number, then

A) he simply did what he should have done;

B)   he paid too much to trade up to where the value matched the pick number, mitigating the overall value; or 

c) if he trades down, he risked losing out on a superior player.


I agree with you on Gruden.  While he has had success, I hate the way he has achieved it with the emphasis on older vets.  I do not doubt he was behind the Ferrell pick.  The Giants were desperate for a QB and reached.

How does that, in any way, mitigate the fact that Caldwell got the Allen pick right?

Again, were Caldwell as inept as you say, he would have simply replicated the mistakes the Giants and Raiders made.

You aren't being reasonable.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Thank God I am not a Raiders or Giants fan

Dude... you ain't lying! Six picks last night between the two of them and I swear every pick for the most part felt extremely underwhelming for the value.

This is why I always argue that trading down or trading away players for picks isn't always what it's cracked up to be.

You have to turn the picks into quality players.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Would've been really disappointed if we had drafted Josh Allen last year.

---

If week 2 is against the titans... IDK if excited is the word. I'm freakin urinated (is that clean enough?) that we done lost to them 3 times in a row with the last 1, us lookin like a pop-warner team. So i can't wait to get some much needed get back.  Would be mad as hades if we lose... I guess anxious is the word.

Week 2 is Houston.  Week 3 is Tennessee.

Truth be told, we owe both of them some [BLEEP] kickings.

I think adding Allen to our front seven will go a long way towards that end.

Oh, ok.. Yes indeed. And now we gotta go get an offensive playmaker. A.J. Brown, for the table I pound

---

You Gotta Be Able To Run Da' Rock~

Credit for not being dumb once again. That's it. 

Too bad you are starting to sound like everyone else here.

---

Btw, Gruden is the worst HC/GM (I know Mayock is the GM but Gruden has the final say) right now and Giants were desperate for a QB, so yeah.

So if he gets a pick right, it's credit for not being dumb, but then if he misses on the pick, then he gets blame for not being smart?

So under what circumstances would he get credit for making a smart pick?  If he makes a pick whose value exceeds the pick number, invariably it's because some team or teams above made a mistake. 

If he makes a pick whose value is equal to the pick number, then

A) he simply did what he should have done;

B)   he paid too much to trade up to where the value matched the pick number, mitigating the overall value; or 

c) if he trades down, he risked losing out on a superior player.


I agree with you on Gruden.  While he has had success, I hate the way he has achieved it with the emphasis on older vets.  I do not doubt he was behind the Ferrell pick.  The Giants were desperate for a QB and reached.

How does that, in any way, mitigate the fact that Caldwell got the Allen pick right?

Again, were Caldwell as inept as you say, he would have simply replicated the mistakes the Giants and Raiders made.

You aren't being reasonable.

It's the same as with Ramsey. He fell, Caldwell made the choice 98% of the people on this planet would have made. Same with Allen.
I have no doubt if it was up to Mayock Allen would have been the pick for the Raiders.

Caldwell gets credit for something like Ngakoue, Telvin, maybe A Rob (he choose Lee first so... but let's give it to him)
People now blame everything bad on TC (no doubt he is to blame too but Caldwell is the GM and I have no doubt TC respects that)

The bad on DC?

Bradley
Bradley 
Bradley
Bradley
Joeckel (some of us wanted Ansah, so while the draft was kinda bad there much better choices than even fans could see)
Cyprien
Gratz
Bortles
Yeldon
Cann
Fournette (dude is average but worse part is he passed on Mahomes and Watson)
Smoot
Beadles
Clemons
Hood
R.Bryant
Gerhart
Julius Thomas
Jared Odrick 
Davon House
Ivory
Trade for Kessler
Trade for Hyde
Bortles extension
Lee big contract
Hayden
Norwell
Letting A Rob walk
Refuse to bring someone better than Bortles
Keeping Bradley like 3 years more than most people would have
And I am sure I am missing some

Bryan and Chark have done nothing (there is still hope but still...)

For every 1 good move he is done there's like 10 horrible mistakes.
Yeah, every GM make mistakes from time to time but I have no doubt we can do much better than Caldwell.

---

So if he gets a pick right, it's credit for not being dumb, but then if he misses on the pick, then he gets blame for not being smart?

So under what circumstances would he get credit for making a smart pick?  If he makes a pick whose value exceeds the pick number, invariably it's because some team or teams above made a mistake. 

If he makes a pick whose value is equal to the pick number, then

A) he simply did what he should have done;

B)   he paid too much to trade up to where the value matched the pick number, mitigating the overall value; or 

c) if he trades down, he risked losing out on a superior player.


I agree with you on Gruden.  While he has had success, I hate the way he has achieved it with the emphasis on older vets.  I do not doubt he was behind the Ferrell pick.  The Giants were desperate for a QB and reached.

How does that, in any way, mitigate the fact that Caldwell got the Allen pick right?

Again, were Caldwell as inept as you say, he would have simply replicated the mistakes the Giants and Raiders made.

You aren't being reasonable.

It's the same as with Ramsey. He fell, Caldwell made the choice 98% of the people on this planet would have made. Same with Allen.
I have no doubt if it was up to Mayock Allen would have been the pick for the Raiders.

Caldwell gets credit for something like Ngakoue, Telvin, maybe A Rob (he choose Lee first so... but let's give it to him)
People now blame everything bad on TC (no doubt he is to blame too but Caldwell is the GM and I have no doubt TC respects that)

The bad on DC?

Bradley
Bradley 
Bradley
Bradley
Joeckel (some of us wanted Ansah, so while the draft was kinda bad there much better choices than even fans could see)
Cyprien
Gratz
Bortles
Yeldon
Cann
Fournette (dude is average but worse part is he passed on Mahomes and Watson)
Smoot
Beadles
Clemons
Hood
R.Bryant
Gerhart
Julius Thomas
Jared Odrick 
Davon House
Ivory
Trade for Kessler
Trade for Hyde
Bortles extension
Lee big contract
Hayden
Norwell
Letting A Rob walk
Refuse to bring someone better than Bortles
Keeping Bradley like 3 years more than most people would have
And I am sure I am missing some

Bryan and Chark have done nothing (there is still hope but still...)

For every 1 good move he is done there's like 10 horrible mistakes.
Yeah, every GM make mistakes from time to time but I have no doubt we can do much better than Caldwell.

You should really try to analyze with things other than your emotions.  You view literally everything through an extremely negative lens, and that shows.

Caldwell is easily one of the top 15 GMs in the league just from the talent he's brought to this team, and very likely top 10.  We could do much worse (and have in the past).

Please, give us his ten horrible mistakes for each good move:

Ramsey
Campbell
Ngakoue
Telvin
Myles Jack
Bouye
Lambo
A Rob

And that's not even considering many of his good moves, like Allen likely will be.  Many of your mistakes are completely up for debate, as well.  You aren't rational.

---

So if he gets a pick right, it's credit for not being dumb, but then if he misses on the pick, then he gets blame for not being smart?

So under what circumstances would he get credit for making a smart pick?  If he makes a pick whose value exceeds the pick number, invariably it's because some team or teams above made a mistake. 

If he makes a pick whose value is equal to the pick number, then

A) he simply did what he should have done;

B)   he paid too much to trade up to where the value matched the pick number, mitigating the overall value; or 

c) if he trades down, he risked losing out on a superior player.


I agree with you on Gruden.  While he has had success, I hate the way he has achieved it with the emphasis on older vets.  I do not doubt he was behind the Ferrell pick.  The Giants were desperate for a QB and reached.

How does that, in any way, mitigate the fact that Caldwell got the Allen pick right?

Again, were Caldwell as inept as you say, he would have simply replicated the mistakes the Giants and Raiders made.

You aren't being reasonable.

It's the same as with Ramsey. He fell, Caldwell made the choice 98% of the people on this planet would have made. Same with Allen.
I have no doubt if it was up to Mayock Allen would have been the pick for the Raiders.

Caldwell gets credit for something like Ngakoue, Telvin, maybe A Rob (he choose Lee first so... but let's give it to him)
People now blame everything bad on TC (no doubt he is to blame too but Caldwell is the GM and I have no doubt TC respects that)

The bad on DC?

Bradley
Bradley 
Bradley
Bradley
Joeckel (some of us wanted Ansah, so while the draft was kinda bad there much better choices than even fans could see)
Cyprien
Gratz
Bortles
Yeldon
Cann
Fournette (dude is average but worse part is he passed on Mahomes and Watson)
Smoot
Beadles
Clemons
Hood
R.Bryant
Gerhart
Julius Thomas
Jared Odrick 
Davon House
Ivory
Trade for Kessler
Trade for Hyde
Bortles extension
Lee big contract
Hayden
Norwell
Letting A Rob walk
Refuse to bring someone better than Bortles
Keeping Bradley like 3 years more than most people would have
And I am sure I am missing some

Bryan and Chark have done nothing (there is still hope but still...)

For every 1 good move he is done there's like 10 horrible mistakes.
Yeah, every GM make mistakes from time to time but I have no doubt we can do much better than Caldwell.

Bradley - Wasn't DC's HC of choice and he's been on record saying that on MULTIPLE occasions. But he managed to convince Khan he was the guy despite Dave's warnings.

Bradley - Wasn't DC's HC of choice and he's been on record saying that on MULTIPLE occasions. But he managed to convince Khan he was the guy despite Dave's warnings.

Bradley - Wasn't DC's HC of choice and he's been on record saying that on MULTIPLE occasions. But he managed to convince Khan he was the guy despite Dave's warnings.

Bradley - ONE MORE TIME FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK: Wasn't DC's HC of choice and he's been on record saying that on MULTIPLE occasions. But he managed to convince Khan he was the guy despite Dave's warnings.

Joeckel (some of us wanted Ansah, so while the draft was kinda bad there much better choices than even fans could see) I wanted Ansah as well, but remember, he was very raw at the time and there's no guarantee he'd work out here. Joeckel is who i would've picked at #2 without the benefit of hindsight. 2013 was just a WEAK draft .. there was no one besides Hopkins, Ansah, Lane Johnson and a few other guys that worked out given how highly they were drafted.

Cyprien - I liked him out of FIU, he didn't work out unfortunately but again. 2013 was just a WEAK draft. Bradley also demanded they draft a SS (we had none on the roster at the time) bc they needed a Kam Chancellor type to make his "Seattle Hybrid Leo Defense" work; if you handcuff your GM like that ... this is what happens.

Gratz - Drafted a round too soon, Kelce went the pick before, we had just drafted Joeckel so we're not taking Armstead, or Warford, we still have Blackmon at this point so we're not taking Keenan Allen, and Mathieu had character concerns and size concerns coming out of LSU. Gratz wasn't TERRIBLE but he wasn't great, I don't really consider this a blemish against DC.

Bortles - I wanted Mack, not going to defend this pick.

Yeldon - Was the best RB we've had since MJD until Fournette got here, wish he'd had more success, stayed healthier etc., shored up his fumble issues though, par for the course tbh.

Cann - Starting caliber RG, never gonna be an All-Pro but to call him a "bust" or a "mistake" for being drafted in the 3rd round is less than honest.

Fournette - Mahomes and Watson are suchhhh hindsight picks. Personally I think Watson is overrated; and NO ONE was pounding the table for Mahomes back then. 
LF27 was the straw that stirred the drink for us on offense and helped carry us to the first winning record in a decade and the AFCCG. It's insane to me that people bash this pick. Show me a post quote from back then of you saying we should draft Mahomes and i'll let you take the dub, but short of that ... sit down bruh. 

Smoot - A guy that was talked about as being a first rounder in the months before who has the prototypical size; i'm fine with using a 3rd rounder on him to try and catch lightning in a bottle like we did with Yannick Ngakoue. Same position, same type of school, same round. Just because a player doesn't exceed expectations doesn't mean they're a terrible pick (especially since it's the THIRD round.)

Beadles - It's free agency, you overpay to get guys, he was ok for us here but was paid a little too much, such is the nature of free agency, can't blame DC for that.


Clemons - see above

Hood - Was brought in for literally nothing

R.Bryant - Who?

Gerhart - Was trash, said it at the time.

Julius Thomas - Overpaid, Underwhelmed. Given his production in Denver it was worth taking a chance on. Didn't work out but i'm not "irate" at Dave for signing him.

Jared Odrick - was actually a pretty good "Big End" for us; anyone who was expecting double digit sacks from a 295 pound "big end" was kidding themselves. He was a good signing and was released for no dead money when they moved on to get Calais Campbell in the door.

Davon House - was an Ok #2 corner for us here.

Ivory - Was a key contributor during the 2017 season and played well for us in general while here.

Trade for Kessler - you're mad over a conditional 7th round pick for a backup/developmental QB? Get real dude.

Trade for Hyde - looks terrible in hindsight. but remember at the time we were 3-3. and EVERY RB on the roster is hurt: Fournette's hamstring, Grant's linsfranc, 
Yeldons knee etc. ... there were serious questions about having to start a street free agent against the Eagles that week before Yeldon toughed it out.

Bortles extension - Not defending this, but considering what Cousins etc. got, and that the band aid is ripped off in terms of dead money after 2019 and we can use that $$ to resign Yan, Jack or Jalen.

Lee big contract - Considering the market for WR's and Albert Wilson (who's topped 500 yards ONCE) got an identical contract it's not that bad in hindsight. Lee had back to back solid years with 850 and 700 yards respectively, and was our go to guy on 3rd downs. Yea he tore his ACL and didn't play last year, but he was VERY healthy the 2 years prior to that and shed the albino tiger label. After this season he can be cut for no dead money.... i refuse to crucify DC over what is a very reasonable extension.

Hayden - Hayden was an UPGRADE at Nickelback over Colvin ... Do you watch the Jaguars?!?!?! I've officially lost respect for your takes by you including him on this list; he was one of Caldwell's better signings, get outtaaaaa hereeee with this garbage. lolololololol.

Norwell - Jury still out, played the whole year with a knee injury and our offense as a whole was a dumpster fire so it's tough to evaluate him in a vaccuum.

Letting A Rob walk - What makes you think A Rob was willing to stay here at any price? I don't think he'd have re-signed here for the same contract the Bears gave him. I was mad they let him walk but it takes 2 to tango so to speak.

Refuse to bring someone better than Bortles - Who tf were you going to bring in? Besides a hindsight take with Mahomes and Watson in the draft ... you'd pay 30$ mil fully guaranteed per season to Cousins?!?! They just brought in Foles who's better than Bortles ... so that's officially no longer a knock on DC.

Keeping Bradley like 3 years more than most people would have - See the very first point I made; What makes you think DC had control over this?!?! Khan has said multiple times he values stability and likes to give chances and a long leash to coaches; this way when it's time to hire someone new they won't be hesitant like they would be going to the Browns knowing that they're going to be fired within a year for not producing immediate results in a herculean effort.

And I am sure I am missing some - Donte Moncrief, slightly more $$$ than Lee with significantly less production. He's one of the few contracts i will absolutely hold against DC.



All in all, it's not as bad as you claim. Further, you give him 0 credit for the picks he got right which is an absolute joke. Also including DJ Hayden on your list of "busts" or reasons Caldwell sucks is hysterical.

---

Championship Formula:

1) Draft Trevor Lawrence!
2) Play good physical Defense! 
3) Keep 91% of the roster healthy!
4) ???
5) Blank #2
6) CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

No one’s reading that

---

No one’s reading that

Made it more legible, it's nothing most people don't already know. It just goes to show that people have way different opinions in hindsight and tend to distort reality.

---

Championship Formula:

1) Draft Trevor Lawrence!
2) Play good physical Defense! 
3) Keep 91% of the roster healthy!
4) ???
5) Blank #2
6) CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

So if he gets a pick right, it's credit for not being dumb, but then if he misses on the pick, then he gets blame for not being smart?

So under what circumstances would he get credit for making a smart pick?  If he makes a pick whose value exceeds the pick number, invariably it's because some team or teams above made a mistake. 

If he makes a pick whose value is equal to the pick number, then

A) he simply did what he should have done;

B)   he paid too much to trade up to where the value matched the pick number, mitigating the overall value; or 

c) if he trades down, he risked losing out on a superior player.


I agree with you on Gruden.  While he has had success, I hate the way he has achieved it with the emphasis on older vets.  I do not doubt he was behind the Ferrell pick.  The Giants were desperate for a QB and reached.

How does that, in any way, mitigate the fact that Caldwell got the Allen pick right?

Again, were Caldwell as inept as you say, he would have simply replicated the mistakes the Giants and Raiders made.

You aren't being reasonable.

It's the same as with Ramsey. He fell, Caldwell made the choice 98% of the people on this planet would have made. Same with Allen.
I have no doubt if it was up to Mayock Allen would have been the pick for the Raiders.

Caldwell gets credit for something like Ngakoue, Telvin, maybe A Rob (he choose Lee first so... but let's give it to him)
People now blame everything bad on TC (no doubt he is to blame too but Caldwell is the GM and I have no doubt TC respects that)

The bad on DC?

Bradley
Bradley 
Bradley
Bradley
Joeckel (some of us wanted Ansah, so while the draft was kinda bad there much better choices than even fans could see)
Cyprien
Gratz
Bortles
Yeldon
Cann
Fournette (dude is average but worse part is he passed on Mahomes and Watson)
Smoot
Beadles
Clemons
Hood
R.Bryant
Gerhart
Julius Thomas
Jared Odrick 
Davon House
Ivory
Trade for Kessler
Trade for Hyde
Bortles extension
Lee big contract
Hayden
Norwell
Letting A Rob walk
Refuse to bring someone better than Bortles
Keeping Bradley like 3 years more than most people would have
And I am sure I am missing some

Bryan and Chark have done nothing (there is still hope but still...)

For every 1 good move he is done there's like 10 horrible mistakes.
Yeah, every GM make mistakes from time to time but I have no doubt we can do much better than Caldwell.

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Im good with the next potential Khalil Mack

---

It's the same as with Ramsey. He fell, Caldwell made the choice 98% of the people on this planet would have made. Same with Allen.
I have no doubt if it was up to Mayock Allen would have been the pick for the Raiders.

Caldwell gets credit for something like Ngakoue, Telvin, maybe A Rob (he choose Lee first so... but let's give it to him)
People now blame everything bad on TC (no doubt he is to blame too but Caldwell is the GM and I have no doubt TC respects that)

The bad on DC?

Bradley
Bradley 
Bradley
Bradley
Joeckel (some of us wanted Ansah, so while the draft was kinda bad there much better choices than even fans could see)
Cyprien
Gratz
Bortles
Yeldon
Cann
Fournette (dude is average but worse part is he passed on Mahomes and Watson)
Smoot
Beadles
Clemons
Hood
R.Bryant
Gerhart
Julius Thomas
Jared Odrick 
Davon House
Ivory
Trade for Kessler
Trade for Hyde
Bortles extension
Lee big contract
Hayden
Norwell
Letting A Rob walk
Refuse to bring someone better than Bortles
Keeping Bradley like 3 years more than most people would have
And I am sure I am missing some

Bryan and Chark have done nothing (there is still hope but still...)

For every 1 good move he is done there's like 10 horrible mistakes.
Yeah, every GM make mistakes from time to time but I have no doubt we can do much better than Caldwell.

You should really try to analyze with things other than your emotions.  You view literally everything through an extremely negative lens, and that shows.

Caldwell is easily one of the top 15 GMs in the league just from the talent he's brought to this team, and very likely top 10.  We could do much worse (and have in the past).

Please, give us his ten horrible mistakes for each good move:

Ramsey
Campbell
Ngakoue
Telvin
Myles Jack
Bouye
Lambo
A Rob

And that's not even considering many of his good moves, like Allen likely will be.  Many of your mistakes are completely up for debate, as well.  You aren't rational.

For people like you, yeah, I have no doubt it looks that way. Do you think I care though?
I don't know why you keep stalking me, I am not discussing anything with you, you can follow me around all you want, this all you will get from me.

---

Usual suspects [BLEEP].

Draft is looking great to me so far!

---

I have a feeling he's gonna be a bust. Dante Fowler, Jr anyone?

This kid is so good at virtually everything you want to see out of a DE/OLB that it'll be very difficult for this defensive coaching staff to [BLEEP] up his development.

While I agree with you, this sounds eerily similar to what we were saying about Luke Joeckel.

---

'02

This kid is so good at virtually everything you want to see out of a DE/OLB that it'll be very difficult for this defensive coaching staff to [BLEEP] up his development.

While I agree with you, this sounds eerily similar to what we were saying about Luke Joeckel.

Oh come on.  So a few years ago, we drafted a guy, said he was good, and now we drafted another guy, and said he is good, so that connects this one to that one?  Seriously?

---

I don't remember anything like that being said about Joeckel. But that was all under Gus Bradley's first season here and that entire first round was lack luster when you look back on it.

We have talent already on defense to where this kid can just focus on his game at the next level while flashing his athletic ability.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1...28161?s=19

---