So much for PFF being the be all and end all.......

It's very much like them to take one stat and imply he's good in coverage, then turn around and tweet a different stat to imply he is not. 

Those old adages about statistics being used to say anything you want ring true here.

Yep.

 I found it very funny when Darron Lee got traded to the Chiefs and one of the PFF guys commented negatively about his coverage ability....to which the Chiefs showed him that PFF themselves had graded Lee in the top 5 for coverage in 2018. PFF guy then said he got that grade because of two spectacular games and that's it.

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So exactly like I said. Eschew any evidence you don't like while confirming any data you do like. Fun. Especially since it's the same source.

Aren't you doing the same thing?

I'm not discrediting them. But as everyone likes to say about PFF, they are good for stats/charting but take their grades with a giant grain of salt. The hard stats say that he didn't get targeted much (which is hard to say if it's because his coverage was so great or because colleges are historically bad at utilizing TE/RB weapons in the passing game...even when they have great ones), but when he was targeted teams were very successful doing it.

My overall point is that pass rushing is way, way more important for an EDGE, and even if you think Allen is okay at coverage you have to admit he is way, way better at pass rushing. So unless you're trying to do a rare safety blitz type of play, which they should mix in occasionally, he should be an exclusive pass rusher. This SAM in base that drops back into coverage in the triple digit number of times in a season would not be the right way to use him.

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I don't think anybody said otherwise RE: Passing rushing being way way more important, Josh Allen being used as a pass rusher etc etc

More so playing him playing as Sam occasionally gets him on the field more than without

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When I see a team's best pass rusher drop into coverage I always think it's silly. Is it really that clever, or is it a case of D coordinators out-thinking themselves?
Expecting Allen to play 2 positions before he's ever played one at the NFL level seems equally foolish. If he can do it, great. If he never plays anything but DE and is great at it, even better... I'd rather he be great at one position than good at a couple

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Aren't you doing the same thing?

I'm not discrediting them. But as everyone likes to say about PFF, they are good for stats/charting but take their grades with a giant grain of salt. The hard stats say that he didn't get targeted much (which is hard to say if it's because his coverage was so great or because colleges are historically bad at utilizing TE/RB weapons in the passing game...even when they have great ones), but when he was targeted teams were very successful doing it.

My overall point is that pass rushing is way, way more important for an EDGE, and even if you think Allen is okay at coverage you have to admit he is way, way better at pass rushing. So unless you're trying to do a rare safety blitz type of play, which they should mix in occasionally, he should be an exclusive pass rusher. This SAM in base that drops back into coverage in the triple digit number of times in a season would not be the right way to use him.

You definitively stated he's not good at pass coverage. How is that anything but discrediting stats and clips that show otherwise? 

You've thrown this when targeted stat out before. It's a flawed statistic. It's like saying a defender held Steph Curry to taking 3 3-pointers but he made 2 so it was bad defense.

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I'm not discrediting them. But as everyone likes to say about PFF, they are good for stats/charting but take their grades with a giant grain of salt. The hard stats say that he didn't get targeted much (which is hard to say if it's because his coverage was so great or because colleges are historically bad at utilizing TE/RB weapons in the passing game...even when they have great ones), but when he was targeted teams were very successful doing it.

My overall point is that pass rushing is way, way more important for an EDGE, and even if you think Allen is okay at coverage you have to admit he is way, way better at pass rushing. So unless you're trying to do a rare safety blitz type of play, which they should mix in occasionally, he should be an exclusive pass rusher. This SAM in base that drops back into coverage in the triple digit number of times in a season would not be the right way to use him.

You definitively stated he's not good at pass coverage. How is that anything but discrediting stats and clips that show otherwise? 

You've thrown this when targeted stat out before. It's a flawed statistic. It's like saying a defender held Steph Curry to taking 3 3-pointers but he made 2 so it was bad defense.

C'mon, you know better than that.  Whichever stat that supports his point is the correct one...no matter what player we're talking about.

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There is 3 separate clips of him in that link and one of him running with Sternberger down field a great pass breakup.  I gave my opinion based on what I've seen from him.  I seen a few a Kentucky games a year being that play in the SEC and teams tried to stay away from Allen.  You say I used the same source then why did you say he isn't very good in coverage when they are praising his coverage skills lol?  You are making no sense

A whole 3 separate clips out of over 300 coverage snaps. And one of them was only a breakup because the QB was pressured and made a bad underthrow to what was a wide open receiver.

You dont have to watch every snap from a player to get an opinion.  Was it a tweet you seen to make you think he isn't good in coverage?  Or have you actually ever seen him play and you seen him get beat in games?

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Straight from the D-coordinators mouth:

The Jaguars will play a 4-3.

And Josh Allen won’t be playing linebacker.

“Josh Allen was drafted to be a defensive end,” Wash said Thursday shortly before the Jaguars’ fifth 2019 organized team activities practice at the Dream Finders Homes Practice Complex adjacent to TIAA Bank Field.

Allen, the No. 7 overall selection in the 2019 NFL Draft, played outside linebacker extensively at the University of Kentucky and was projected by many as a hybrid linebacker/edge defender – perhaps ideal for a 3-4 scheme. He was good in coverage at Kentucky, which Wash acknowledged Thursday.

“He did a real nice job of dropping in college,” Wash said, adding “I can’t honestly say being a [former] D-Line [defensive line coach] that I get too excited about a 15-sack guy dropping into coverage.

“Hopefully, you won’t see too damned much of that.”

https://www.jaguars.com/news/otas-day-5-...ll-run-4-3

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

...
Don’t be surprised if you don’t see him playing strong side LB any time soon.
...

Straight from the D-coordinators mouth:

The Jaguars will play a 4-3.

And Josh Allen won’t be playing linebacker.

As I was saying...

Still... 
I wouldn't read too far into comments from Wash in May about exactly how each player will be utilized.
They haven't even begun camp and he doesn't even know who will be playing the weak side linebacker spot.

His philosophical view on using Allen could encounter some practical adjustments between now and September.

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Where Wash said "hopefully we won't see too damn much of that," referring to Allen potentially dropping into coverage as a SAM backer... this seems to leave a little bit of room open that maybe every now and then he might. I'd still love to see a few Capers inspired plays mixed in where he can utilize his natural OLB abilities to get after the QB.

That said, for all intents and purposes, it's pretty darn clear Josh Allen will primarily play DE.

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'02

...
Don’t be surprised if you don’t see him playing strong side LB any time soon.
...

Straight from the D-coordinators mouth:

As I was saying...

Still... 
I wouldn't read too far into comments from Wash in May about exactly how each player will be utilized.
They haven't even begun camp and he doesn't even know who will be playing the weak side linebacker spot.

His philosophical view on using Allen could encounter some practical adjustments between now and September.

I agree with Wash.  A pass rusher is so much more important than a SLB.  Why wear the guy out at a less important position, when he's probably already half worn out from the pre-draft stuff that NFL prospects go through?

I could see using a little trickery every now and then with a zone blitz, though.

My question is, he had 17 sacks last year even though he dropped into coverage a huge percentage of plays.  How many sacks would he have had if he had not dropped into coverage so often?  25?

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As I was saying...

Still... 
I wouldn't read too far into comments from Wash in May about exactly how each player will be utilized.
They haven't even begun camp and he doesn't even know who will be playing the weak side linebacker spot.

His philosophical view on using Allen could encounter some practical adjustments between now and September.

I agree with Wash.  A pass rusher is so much more important than a SLB.  Why wear the guy out at a less important position, when he's probably already half worn out from the pre-draft stuff that NFL prospects go through?

I could see using a little trickery every now and then with a zone blitz, though.

My question is, he had 17 sacks last year even though he dropped into coverage a huge percentage of plays.  How many sacks would he have had if he had not dropped into coverage so often?  25?

That's the scariest thing about him. So much upside. I really wouldn't be surprised if we just landed the next Khalil Mack, Von Miller or DeMarcus Ware type pass rusher for years to come.

And he doesn't have to put everything on himself probably for at least the first two years in the NFL with Campbell and Ngakoue here.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

It appears Josh Allen may be blitzing from the SAM position after all...

So, if you just read the report it's all said and done... Allen is DE. After all, Wash clearly said as much, right?

Well, there's something more than Wash said that Oesher managed to neglect reporting. Wash actually said...

"Josh Allen is a defensive end, which is an outside linebacker in some of the things we do."

Ah, there it is!

Wash clarified the intent is to limit Allen in coverage because they want him rushing the passer, but don't think that means you'll never see him line up at OLB.

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'02

It appears Josh Allen may be blitzing from the SAM position after all...

So, if you just read the report it's all said and done... Allen is DE. After all, Wash clearly said as much, right?

Well, there's something more than Wash said that Oesher managed to neglect reporting. Wash actually said...

"Josh Allen is a defensive end, which is an outside linebacker in some of the things we do."

Ah, there it is!

Wash clarified the intent is to limit Allen in coverage because they want him rushing the passer, but don't think that means you'll never see him line up at OLB.

So, it begs the question- how do you interpret this?  What makes a player an outside linebacker as opposed to a DE?  And isn't an OLB that rushes the passer really a DE?  Or are you thinking Allen will be dropping into coverage after all?

Are we just talking about semantics here?  If a DE drops into coverage, is he an OLB at that point, or is he just a DE that dropped into coverage?

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It appears Josh Allen may be blitzing from the SAM position after all...

So, if you just read the report it's all said and done... Allen is DE. After all, Wash clearly said as much, right?

Well, there's something more than Wash said that Oesher managed to neglect reporting. Wash actually said...

"Josh Allen is a defensive end, which is an outside linebacker in some of the things we do."

Ah, there it is!

Wash clarified the intent is to limit Allen in coverage because they want him rushing the passer, but don't think that means you'll never see him line up at OLB.

I think he's just referring to the nickel they play out of 70% of the time which only has 2 LBs on the field. 

At times in that formation they line the DE out a bit wider and his responsibility can include the flats to his outside shoulder depending on what the offense is showing.

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It appears Josh Allen may be blitzing from the SAM position after all...

So, if you just read the report it's all said and done... Allen is DE. After all, Wash clearly said as much, right?

Well, there's something more than Wash said that Oesher managed to neglect reporting. Wash actually said...




Ah, there it is!

Wash clarified the intent is to limit Allen in coverage because they want him rushing the passer, but don't think that means you'll never see him line up at OLB.

I think he's just referring to the nickel they play out of 70% of the time which only has 2 LBs on the field. 

At times in that formation they line the DE out a bit wider and his responsibility can include the flats to his outside shoulder depending on what the offense is showing.

You might be onto something there where the DE essentially has the role of a strongside OLB, although this sounds like the role of Seattle's OTTO from back when Wash was their DL coach. I'd love to find those old schematics that explained Seattle's OTTO, etc.

The way Wash said he doesn't want to see his prized pass rusher out in coverage too much makes me think we will see him in coverage some. He said that after talking about how well Allen is able to do in coverage. I feel like we're going to be impressed with how they ultimately utilize their "DE opposite Ngakoue," as Wash referred to him, especially knowing the master of the zone-blitz Dom Capers is in the house. Capers was renown for disguising coverages with the DE dropping back and someone else blitzing, which the Jaguars excelled at during his '99 season with the team.

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'02

I'm not really sure why anyone here is trying to force the issue of him in coverage on 145 snaps when the fact is.. if you're playing KY and you're passing, are you really worried about what a DE is doing covering your players when the defense is [BLEEP] and you can pass down the field nonstop? Good lord, I have no idea why you guys are going back and forth on this topic.

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I'm not really sure why anyone here is trying to force the issue of him in coverage on 145 snaps when the fact is.. if you're playing KY and you're passing, are you really worried about what a DE is doing covering your players when the defense is [BLEEP] and you can pass down the field nonstop? Good lord, I have no idea why you guys are going back and forth on this topic.

Kentucky had a solid defense last year. They gave up 186.3 passing yards per game which was 18th best in the FBS.

I think what type of roll he played in that is a valid discussion.

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I'm not really sure why anyone here is trying to force the issue of him in coverage on 145 snaps when the fact is.. if you're playing KY and you're passing, are you really worried about what a DE is doing covering your players when the defense is [BLEEP] and you can pass down the field nonstop? Good lord, I have no idea why you guys are going back and forth on this topic.

Kentucky had a solid defense last year. They gave up 186.3 passing yards per game which was 18th best in the FBS.

I think what type of roll he played in that is a valid discussion.

Hopefully he has a pretty sweet roll in this defense as a rookie.... Important to carb load before early morning practices. 

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Josh Allen is an absolute BEAST. If he is ready, he needs to be on the field on all 3 downs. Meaning Allen-Dareus-Campbell-Ngakoue all 3 downs, instead of just the 3rd down unit.

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