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Looking Ahead Debate:. QBs

#1
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2019, 10:11 PM by Bullseye.)

Last year was viewed as a strong QB class, with five signal callers drafted in the first round.

Baker Mayfield was the surprise number one overall draft pick who had the Browns playing well late last year and added a bunch of weapons to the offense this off-season.

Sam Darnold went third overall to the Jets, and had his share of highs and lows   Strong armed Josh Allen went to Buffalo and demonstrated more speed than most thought, but had many of the predicted problems with accuracy.

Josh Rosen, Darnold's cross town rival in college, joins Darnold and Allen in the AFC East after a draft trade to Miami from Arizona.

Finally, Louisville's Lamar Jackson took over the Ravens mid to late season and helped get them to the post season.

The question:. Which QB from the 2018 draft will take the biggest step forward in 2019?

I think Allen and Mayfield will take the biggest steps forward in 2019.

There are several reasons Allen will take the biggest leap.

1.  Given his accuracy issues, he has the farthest to go.

2.  He will be in the same offense with the same coaches.  

3.  He has more help.  The Bills strengthened the O line with C Mitch Morse Nd rookie RT Cody Ford, and added some receiving targets in rookie TE Dawson Knox, slot receiver Cole Beasley, and deep threat John Brown.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#2

I think Darnold and Allen are poised to improve.

The questionable variable for both of them however is coaching IMO. I can't help but wonder (with some doubt) what kind of development they are receiving from their coaches.
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#3

I actually think you're going to see a big jump for Baker. They added OBJ, their young playmakers are now a year older (Chubb, Njoku, Callaway) and he will have a full off season with Kitchens. I think you could see 40-45 TDs. I know that's super lofty but I think he's got the mentality to do it and the weapons.
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#4

(05-20-2019, 10:16 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: I actually think you're going to see a big jump for Baker. They added OBJ, their young playmakers are now a year older (Chubb, Njoku, Callaway) and he will have a full off season with Kitchens. I think you could see 40-45 TDs. I know that's super lofty but I think he's got the mentality to do it and the weapons.

I don't disagree, I just feel like he's already "broken out" whereas these other two I mentioned haven't done that. 

Baker has shown he'll be able to impact games positively for his team. Haven't seen that from Allen or Darnold enough.

Of course it's possible that Baker's degree of improvement is greater in the end.
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#5

(05-20-2019, 11:57 AM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(05-20-2019, 10:16 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: I actually think you're going to see a big jump for Baker. They added OBJ, their young playmakers are now a year older (Chubb, Njoku, Callaway) and he will have a full off season with Kitchens. I think you could see 40-45 TDs. I know that's super lofty but I think he's got the mentality to do it and the weapons.

I don't disagree, I just feel like he's already "broken out" whereas these other two I mentioned haven't done that. 

Baker has shown he'll be able to impact games positively for his team. Haven't seen that from Allen or Darnold enough.

Of course it's possible that Baker's degree of improvement is greater in the end.
That's kind of what I was hinting at. I'm not saying he will have a Mahomes type year but if he did, it wouldn't surprise me.

I think Darnold has a great season with Bell and a healthy Robby Anderson (Keep him in your fantasy draft preparations). I think Allen really struggles this season because he will try to prove he can win from the pocket when he can't. I really like Rosen but boy is he set up for failure this season.
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#6
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2019, 01:13 PM by Bullseye.)

(05-20-2019, 09:23 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: I think Darnold and Allen are poised to improve.

The questionable variable for both of them however is coaching IMO. I can't help but wonder (with some doubt) what kind of development they are receiving from their coaches.

That is one of the chief concerns with those two.

Gase never really developed anyone.

When he was OC at Denver, he already had a fully developed and experienced Peyton Manning winding down his HOF career.
Tannehill could never put it all together under Gase for various reasons.


Daboll has been around, but has no real track record of developing any stud QBs.  I would say his most notable QB protegee is Mark Sanchez.  But I think with continuity and the additional help around him, Allen should improve.

I listed Mayfield but did not elaborate because everyone knows what has gone on with Cleveland and the acquisitions they have made offensively.  Looking solely at the skill positions, they are loaded.  The only question is the OL.  Even though they have a new head coach, Kitchens worked with Mayfield last year and knows his strengths and weaknesses.  For all intents and purposes, Mayfield has coaching continuity.

Rosen still has the tools to potentially make it big in the NFL, but the situation in Miami is only marginally better than it was in Arizona for Rosen last year.  I could see him become the starter and put up better numbers than he had last year yet still be deemed an unknown quantity by Miami after the year is up.

Now my question is entirely different from the question of who will b

(05-20-2019, 10:16 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: I actually think you're going to see a big jump for Baker. They added OBJ, their young playmakers are now a year older (Chubb, Njoku, Callaway) and he will have a full off season with Kitchens. I think you could see 40-45 TDs. I know that's super lofty but I think he's got the mentality to do it and the weapons.

As I said, the main question I have regarding the Browns offense is the line.  If they are adequate at LT, they can plug someone into Zeitler's spot at G and be okay.  But right now, their arrow is pointing straight up.

(05-20-2019, 11:57 AM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(05-20-2019, 10:16 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: I actually think you're going to see a big jump for Baker. They added OBJ, their young playmakers are now a year older (Chubb, Njoku, Callaway) and he will have a full off season with Kitchens. I think you could see 40-45 TDs. I know that's super lofty but I think he's got the mentality to do it and the weapons.

I don't disagree, I just feel like he's already "broken out" whereas these other two I mentioned haven't done that. 

Baker has shown he'll be able to impact games positively for his team. Haven't seen that from Allen or Darnold enough.

Of course it's possible that Baker's degree of improvement is greater in the end.

He has more surrounding talent than any other QB in that draft class, though the Ravens are putting a nice squad around Jackson.  He has a better OL in front of him than Mayfield, though Mayfield has the better surrounding talent and is more accurate.  I'm still not sold on Jackson.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#7

Baker and Rosen take big steps forward. Darnold shows rhat hes on the verge of being considered a bust.
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#8

Mayfield- has every opportunity to succeed and has the attitude to do it.

Darnold- it's the Jets, they will likely screw him up. Gase is so overrated, he has accomplished nothing in his career and upper management is the laughingstock of the AFC East (if not the NFL). Darnold will see 3 HC's in his 5 years, assuming the option, and be just a guy.

Allen- already just a guy, IMO. I think he has a chance to become more than that but he is the definition of a project. Buffalo is probably not the place for a "project" QB.

Jackson- did he ever look lost last year. He played better near the end and got them into the playoffs (somehow) but his skill set follows RGIII, maybe V. Young, T. Bridgewater, etc and injury is always a threat. He's not Russell Wilson, Fran Tarkenton level.

Rosen- the Wild Card, IMO. Didn't know much about him coming into the NFL, still don't. Arizona rivals the Jets in their upper management incompetence and Rosen moves on from a terrible HC (Steve Wilks) to an nearly equally dysfunctional situation in Miami. He has a rookie HC (Brian Flores) and the ghost of Dan Marino to deal with. Marino is still around them in some capacity I think.

What was the question again?
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#9

(05-21-2019, 07:32 AM)PF* Wrote: Mayfield- has every opportunity to succeed and has the attitude to do it.

Darnold- it's the Jets, they will likely screw him up. Gase is so overrated, he has accomplished nothing in his career and upper management is the laughingstock of the AFC East (if not the NFL). Darnold will see 3 HC's in his 5 years, assuming the option, and be just a guy.

Allen- already just a guy, IMO. I think he has a chance to become more than that but he is the definition of a project. Buffalo is probably not the place for a "project" QB.

Jackson- did he ever look lost last year. He played better near the end and got them into the playoffs (somehow) but his skill set follows RGIII, maybe V. Young, T. Bridgewater, etc and injury is always a threat. He's not Russell Wilson, Fran Tarkenton level.

Rosen- the Wild Card, IMO. Didn't know much about him coming into the NFL, still don't. Arizona rivals the Jets in their upper management incompetence and Rosen moves on from a terrible HC (Steve Wilks) to an nearly equally dysfunctional situation in Miami. He has a rookie HC (Brian Flores) and the ghost of Dan Marino to deal with. Marino is still around them in some capacity I think.

What was the question again?
Can you explain how Teddy B and Jackson have a similar skill set?
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#10

(05-21-2019, 08:50 AM)Cleatwood Wrote:
(05-21-2019, 07:32 AM)PF* Wrote: Mayfield- has every opportunity to succeed and has the attitude to do it.

Darnold- it's the Jets, they will likely screw him up. Gase is so overrated, he has accomplished nothing in his career and upper management is the laughingstock of the AFC East (if not the NFL). Darnold will see 3 HC's in his 5 years, assuming the option, and be just a guy.

Allen- already just a guy, IMO. I think he has a chance to become more than that but he is the definition of a project. Buffalo is probably not the place for a "project" QB.

Jackson- did he ever look lost last year. He played better near the end and got them into the playoffs (somehow) but his skill set follows RGIII, maybe V. Young, T. Bridgewater, etc and injury is always a threat. He's not Russell Wilson, Fran Tarkenton level.

Rosen- the Wild Card, IMO. Didn't know much about him coming into the NFL, still don't. Arizona rivals the Jets in their upper management incompetence and Rosen moves on from a terrible HC (Steve Wilks) to an nearly equally dysfunctional situation in Miami. He has a rookie HC (Brian Flores) and the ghost of Dan Marino to deal with. Marino is still around them in some capacity I think.

What was the question again?
Can you explain how Teddy B and Jackson have a similar skill set?

You know - the skill of being black and not very large.
The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.
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#11

Between Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Jackson and Rosen it's hard not to like what the Browns have done this year to keep up with the AFC North. Mayfield will probably take the biggest step forward. After him I think it'll be Jackson. Allen could have a huge 2nd year too. Maybe similar to how Carson Wentz played in his 2nd year. Physically I think he's the most gifted from last year's class in terms of overall skills at the position. Just needs to work on his accuracy and footwork some more in the pocket.

Darnold and Rosen have a lot to work on this summer just because of all of the changes and moving around coaching wise.

Stability will always be a young signal caller's best friend.
[Image: 4SXW6gC.png]

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
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#12

(05-21-2019, 10:10 AM)Caldrac Wrote: Between Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Jackson and Rosen it's hard not to like what the Browns have done this year to keep up with the AFC North. Mayfield will probably take the biggest step forward. After him I think it'll be Jackson. Allen could have a huge 2nd year too. Maybe similar to how Carson Wentz played in his 2nd year. Physically I think he's the most gifted from last year's class in terms of overall skills at the position. Just needs to work on his accuracy and footwork some more in the pocket.

Darnold and Rosen have a lot to work on this summer just because of all of the changes and moving around coaching wise.

Stability will always be a young signal caller's best friend.
I honestly don’t think there is a single QB trait that Allen has over Mayfield. He may be more athletic but from a throwing stand point, Mayfield has it all including arm strength.
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#13
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2019, 10:42 AM by Caldrac.)

(05-21-2019, 10:15 AM)Cleatwood Wrote:
(05-21-2019, 10:10 AM)Caldrac Wrote: Between Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Jackson and Rosen it's hard not to like what the Browns have done this year to keep up with the AFC North. Mayfield will probably take the biggest step forward. After him I think it'll be Jackson. Allen could have a huge 2nd year too. Maybe similar to how Carson Wentz played in his 2nd year. Physically I think he's the most gifted from last year's class in terms of overall skills at the position. Just needs to work on his accuracy and footwork some more in the pocket.

Darnold and Rosen have a lot to work on this summer just because of all of the changes and moving around coaching wise.

Stability will always be a young signal caller's best friend.
I honestly don’t think there is a single QB trait that Allen has over Mayfield. He may be more athletic but from a throwing stand point, Mayfield has it all including arm strength.

I agree. That's why Mayfield is my choice to punch it up another notch in year two. Allen just has more size and speed and I think he can really push the football downfield more than Mayfield can in huge chunks. That's not me saying Mayfield has a weaker arm by any means. There's just something to Allen's arm that makes him who he is. If you go back and look at that crazy [BLEEP] throw he had in Miami last year where his guy damn near came down with it for a potential win it was pretty impressive. 

Mayfield by far though has the prettiest pass of this group. Perfect touch. Good timing and he's accurate. Now he's getting ODB to go along with Landry and he'll have a pretty respectable backfield to work with plus Njoku (sp?) at TE to work with? I think he'll keep it up for years to come.
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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
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#14

I predict Mayfield will have the best season but as far as improvement, I will go with Jackson. They are starting to build the team around him and get players that compliment his style of play. I like Rosen, but he might not even win the starting spot and I just don't trust the Jets with Darnold.
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