Its not even specifically about Dungy and his Foles take, just the notion that because Dungy is a former NFL coach what he says must be accurate.

Dungy's takes tend to fall a bit higher on the spectrum of credilbility for many fans than random former coaches. 
Myself included. 

ie:  Del Rio's takes on Derek Carr compared to Dungy's on Foles. 
Which would you weigh more?

Thats completely fine, I'm sure you are more a proponent of using a players track record as your evidence vs just taking what he said as gospel though at the time. 

I dunno what Del Rio has said but you'd always take a former coaches thoughts on his player with a big pinch of salt. But also I wouldn't value what either said vs the players track record

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Appeal to authority is a very common and often very, very wrong logical fallacy to make.

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Appeal to authority is a very common and often very, very wrong logical fallacy to make.

LOL 

We're determining whether another human's opinions are worthy of one's respect or not.  
It's not a "fallacy."  
It's a judgement call. Unique to each individual.

There's no absolute in respecting one man's opinion over another's.  And there's no concrete outcome. 

"I think this guy  has a better chance of being right than this other guy." 

It's not rocket science. And authority has [BLEEP] all to do with it.

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Dungy's takes tend to fall a bit higher on the spectrum of credilbility for many fans than random former coaches. 
Myself included. 

ie:  Del Rio's takes on Derek Carr compared to Dungy's on Foles. 
Which would you weigh more?

Thats completely fine, I'm sure you are more a proponent of using a players track record as your evidence vs just taking what he said as gospel though at the time. 

I dunno what Del Rio has said but you'd always take a former coaches thoughts on his player with a big pinch of salt. But also I wouldn't value what either said vs the players track record

I think everyone worthy of debating with here is using on field performance as a primary determination. 

I simply find your casual dismissal of Dungy's take a bit odd. For reasons I've already made clear.

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I understand everyone's excitement for Foles after the hate i saw for Blake here. Foles had a better offense, and a better gameplan, than blake ever had. Excuses for Blake are dead just like excuses for Foles are. Foles didnt play a full season last year nor the year we were headed to face him before the PATS loss. I'm still waiting to see what happens this year and hoping this new OC can give us a respectable offense that kids cant pick apart pre play finally. Carry On

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Season Tix, Section 409

2023 and still counting.....SB will finally be ours soon enough.
TLaw aka 'the prince that was promised' supporter.

Of course lots of Philly fans didn't wanna lose him, he won the city a SB as a backup! 

Unfortunately there's more to a career than two games, or even 1 season. He's 30 years old with 1.5 good seasons to his name, he's never played more than 13 games in a year, and only played over 10 twice. When he shows me he's not in the that tier ill believe it

How quickly people forget how wrong that season after his 27-2 season went, or even wronger the following season with the Rams went. We have no clue which Foles we're going to get. His baseline is a little below average, but he could be as high as the 10-15 range for QBs or we could be right back with a bottom 5 QB pretty easily.

I'm completely ok with writing off every year for any player coached by Jeff Fisher

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I understand everyone's excitement for Foles after the hate i saw for Blake here.  Foles had a better offense, and a better gameplan, than blake ever had.  Excuses for Blake are dead just like excuses for Foles are.  Foles didnt play a full season last year nor the year  we were headed to face him before the PATS loss.   I'm still waiting to see what happens this year and hoping this new OC can give us a respectable offense that kids cant pick apart pre play finally.  Carry On

And why do you think the Jags were running such a basic offense?

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How quickly people forget how wrong that season after his 27-2 season went, or even wronger the following season with the Rams went. We have no clue which Foles we're going to get. His baseline is a little below average, but he could be as high as the 10-15 range for QBs or we could be right back with a bottom 5 QB pretty easily.

I'm completely ok with writing off every year for any player coached by Jeff Fisher

but foles was an average/low end starter this past year with Doug Pederson too

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I understand everyone's excitement for Foles after the hate i saw for Blake here.  Foles had a better offense, and a better gameplan, than blake ever had.  Excuses for Blake are dead just like excuses for Foles are.  Foles didnt play a full season last year nor the year  we were headed to face him before the PATS loss.   I'm still waiting to see what happens this year and hoping this new OC can give us a respectable offense that kids cant pick apart pre play finally.  Carry On

Yes Bortles was a star.  We were all wrong.

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Appeal to authority is a very common and often very, very wrong logical fallacy to make.

LOL 

We're determining whether another human's opinions are worthy of one's respect or not.  
It's not a "fallacy."  
It's a judgement call. Unique to each individual.

There's no absolute in respecting one man's opinion over another's.  And there's no concrete outcome. 

"I think this guy  has a better chance of being right than this other guy." 

It's not rocket science. And authority has [BLEEP] all to do with it.

---

Thats completely fine, I'm sure you are more a proponent of using a players track record as your evidence vs just taking what he said as gospel though at the time. 

I dunno what Del Rio has said but you'd always take a former coaches thoughts on his player with a big pinch of salt. But also I wouldn't value what either said vs the players track record

I think everyone worthy of debating with here is using on field performance as a primary determination. 

I simply find your casual dismissal of Dungy's take a bit odd. For reasons I've already made clear.

Again its not about Dungy or his take specifically, just that using a former coaches media take on a player over their track record wouldn't be wise.

---

LOL 

We're determining whether another human's opinions are worthy of one's respect or not.  
It's not a "fallacy."  
It's a judgement call. Unique to each individual.

There's no absolute in respecting one man's opinion over another's.  And there's no concrete outcome. 

"I think this guy  has a better chance of being right than this other guy." 

It's not rocket science. And authority has [BLEEP] all to do with it.

---

I think everyone worthy of debating with here is using on field performance as a primary determination. 

I simply find your casual dismissal of Dungy's take a bit odd. For reasons I've already made clear.

Again its not about Dungy or his take specifically, just that using a former coaches media take on a player over their track record wouldn't be wise.

No has one suggested doing that.  And my questioning to you absolutely was about Dungy and his take. 
You're just choosing to lump him in with all of the other  "old former coaches."  I prefer to look at each of them individually. 

All we've arrived at here is:
You don't respect Dungy's take as much as I do. He's just another old former coach.  I was curious about that. Not a big deal. 
 Moving on...

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Again its not about Dungy or his take specifically, just that using a former coaches media take on a player over their track record wouldn't be wise.

No has one suggested doing that.  And my questioning to you absolutely was about Dungy and his take. 
You're just choosing to lump him in with all of the other  "old former coaches."  I prefer to look at each of them individually. 

All we've arrived at here is:
You don't respect Dungy's take as much as I do. He's just another old former coach.  I was curious about that. Not a big deal. 
 Moving on...

Read the conversation at the top, i'm not bashing Tony, just the willingness to go with former football coaches in the media over someones actual track record as a player. 

"This players track record is very uneven and taken in its entirety his career looks like an average/low end starter in the league" 

"Yeah well Tony Dungy said he's great and he's a former coach so I'll believe that instead"

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No has one suggested doing that.  And my questioning to you absolutely was about Dungy and his take. 
You're just choosing to lump him in with all of the other  "old former coaches."  I prefer to look at each of them individually. 

All we've arrived at here is:
You don't respect Dungy's take as much as I do. He's just another old former coach.  I was curious about that. Not a big deal. 
 Moving on...

Read the conversation at the top, i'm not bashing Tony, just the willingness to go with former football coaches in the media over someones actual track record as a player. 

"This players track record is very uneven and taken in its entirety his career looks like an average/low end starter in the league" 

"Yeah well Tony Dungy said he's great and he's a former coach so"

You're creating a dynamic that didn't exist in the conversation. 

No one said "Dungy said he's good so to hell with his record" except for you suggesting the notion.

Again, I was just trying to inquire about how you weighed that particular coach's opinion. 
It carries no weight for you apparently. 
That's perfectly fine. 

For me Dungy's opinions merely serve to bolster the optimism I take from Foles performance over the past two NFL seasons.  It doesn't really change my opinion one way or the other. It's a mild affirmation.  That's all. 

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Aside from all of that Dungy debate ^ silliness  - it would seem I choose not to put as much emphasis on what Foles did 5 or 6 years ago as some of you. 
It's part of his resumé, sure,  but I'm one who thinks that old "it's a what have you done for me lately league" cliché exists for good reason. I weigh recent performance more than "historical stats."

My only real concern with Foles isn't about if he can be a slightly above average QB or not.
It's just whether he can be durable enough to play a full season.

---

I understand everyone's excitement for Foles after the hate i saw for Blake here.  Foles had a better offense, and a better gameplan, than blake ever had.  Excuses for Blake are dead just like excuses for Foles are.  Foles didnt play a full season last year nor the year  we were headed to face him before the PATS loss.   I'm still waiting to see what happens this year and hoping this new OC can give us a respectable offense that kids cant pick apart pre play finally.  Carry On

And why do you think the Jags were running such a basic offense?

I understand everyone's excitement for Foles after the hate i saw for Blake here.  Foles had a better offense, and a better gameplan, than blake ever had.  Excuses for Blake are dead just like excuses for Foles are.  Foles didnt play a full season last year nor the year  we were headed to face him before the PATS loss.   I'm still waiting to see what happens this year and hoping this new OC can give us a respectable offense that kids cant pick apart pre play finally.  Carry On

Yes Bortles was a star.  We were all wrong.

I never said he was.  Even average, to below average, QBs can shine in the right system and our system was never right for the type of QB we had.  We tried to force him to play how we wanted instead of tailor to what he was already good at in college.  As veteran NFL fans, i think you all should know that a system can make a player look better even if they arent an allstar.....or maybe not. Point is, if anyone thinks our offense was complex or confusing defenses then their lost souls. Routes got sat on by defenses and WRs didnt do anything to extend plays to help the QB. All in all, Bortles is gone. Foles is going to be the next Brees to just light it up with a new team and resurrect his career for a full season and not just a few games, i'm popcorn at the ready to see it.

---

Season Tix, Section 409

2023 and still counting.....SB will finally be ours soon enough.
TLaw aka 'the prince that was promised' supporter.

If BB5 was better than NF7, we wouldn't have signed him. BB5 would still be our QB.

NH3...

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"AZANE"

If BB5 was better than NF7, we wouldn't have signed him. BB5 would still be our QB.

NH3...

I beg to differ.  Just based on our track record of letting some players go that we see as expendable, only to see them shine somewhere else.  QB, not so much, but other positions yes.  Just shows how bad we've been at QB and just rode it out.

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Season Tix, Section 409

2023 and still counting.....SB will finally be ours soon enough.
TLaw aka 'the prince that was promised' supporter.

He's better in the sense that he has leadership qualities that the offense hasn't really had. Guys will do what they're supposed to do. It's also nice when routine throws look like routine throws.

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No pain, no gain.

WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY too early to make assumptions..

Do you actually think that "Foles > Bortles" is an assumption??

 How is this not stone cold fact to anyone with functioning eyeballs? 

As far as "receivers being better than we think" - that's impossible to answer because there are a million different opinions out there on how good or bad these receivers are with any QB. 
But having a better QB than last year makes them all more effective. No question. No assumption.

My post really wasn't even referring to Foles. We all know he throws a better ball than Bortles.

I was more so talking about the Offense as a whole and especially at WR.

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I understand everyone's excitement for Foles after the hate i saw for Blake here.  

What hate?  Blake was a great competitor and teammate and generally well liked.  He simply couldn't throw a football or read a defense and go through a progression very well, which is why he's no longer here.

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When you get into the endzone, act like you've been there before.

Read the conversation at the top, i'm not bashing Tony, just the willingness to go with former football coaches in the media over someones actual track record as a player. 

"This players track record is very uneven and taken in its entirety his career looks like an average/low end starter in the league" 

"Yeah well Tony Dungy said he's great and he's a former coach so"

You're creating a dynamic that didn't exist in the conversation. 

No one said "Dungy said he's good so to hell with his record" except for you suggesting the notion.

Again, I was just trying to inquire about how you weighed that particular coach's opinion. 
It carries no weight for you apparently. 
That's perfectly fine. 

For me Dungy's opinions merely serve to bolster the optimism I take from Foles performance over the past two NFL seasons.  It doesn't really change my opinion one way or the other. It's a mild affirmation.  That's all. 

---

Aside from all of that Dungy debate ^ silliness  - it would seem I choose not to put as much emphasis on what Foles did 5 or 6 years ago as some of you. 
It's part of his resumé, sure,  but I'm one who thinks that old "it's a what have you done for me lately league" cliché exists for good reason. I weigh recent performance more than "historical stats."

My only real concern with Foles isn't about if he can be a slightly above average QB or not.
It's just whether he can be durable enough to play a full season.

I think the rest of his career is important because the sample size of high level performance is so small for him in recent history. He was lights out in the Vikings game, superbowl, and probably 2 other games over the last few seasons but was otherwise meh.  

His 2018 for instance was a very average/low end year taken in its totality with a ton of turnovers issues and inconsistency but I feel its glossed over because of two good games the previous year.

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Let's do a little film study of Foles. This is his highlights from last year's Divisional playoff win over the Bears...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlhJPJeeDiI

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'02