"If you look at his last two seasons, he's played at a better than average level. You could make the argument that he played as well or better than Wentz last year during the regular season." 

The 7 game sample size is the entirety of his 2018, and it is below average for sure.  

Don't forget to add in the other stats for Foles 2018 and Wentz 2018:

Wentz: ypa 7.7, ay/a 7.9 , any/a 6.89
Foles: ypa 7.2, ay/a 7, any/a 6.50  

So yeah other than completion % (which can usually be explain by ypa) and your QBR stat Wentz was easily better. Actually, Nick Foles QBR over the last two regular seasons would have ranked 26th out of 33 qualifying QBs this year, just behind Josh Allen.

Also, "a lot of philly fans think so" is totally incorrect, a minority of Philly fans wanted to let Wentz go and keep Foles. A simple eye test would be enough for most to pick the younger, more dynamic and better QB to stay in Philly, but if you want to go the stats route he wipes the floor with him too.

By completion percentage, QBR, and also YPG. There are some other stats where Wentz is better. Like I said, the point is that a case could be made that he was the better player. Just averaging the stats over the last two season doesn't take into account that Foles only started 3 of the 7 games he played in.  Compared to other starters in 2018, among players with multiple starts, he was 2nd in C/P, 8th in YPG, and 9th in QBR (right ahead of Tom Brady). That's above average. 

Nick Foles averaged more pass attempts per game so I'd certainly hope he'd have more ypg. The vast majority of the stats Wentz is ahead, you can keep your ypg and completion % lol If you're trying to prove Nick Foles is better using stats at least be aware of what stats you're using and which ones matter. 

Mitchell Trubisky was 4th in QBR, I certainly hope you don't think he was the 4th most effective QB in 2018 do you? 10 picks and 8 interceptions in 7 games is not good however you want to spin it, and thats ok. He was amazing in 2017 for the games that mattered.  

You said a lot of Philly fans thought keeping Wentz over Foles was a mistake, implying thats a majority opinion, when in reality its a minority opinion. I'm all for rooting for Foles and thinking he can be effective enough for us this year, there's just no need to blow everything out of proportion instead of just taking him for what he is

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There is a good few scenarios where Foles is a lot better than Blake and still not good enough and disappointing. I think we should judge him relative to the rest of the league and how much success he has Vs just being better than Blake. 

I think with the division being much stronger and being unlikely to repeat 2017s defensive #s we'll still need a passing attack that's above average to make some noise and hit the playoffs.

...which is exactly why they ate Blake’s money, signed Foles and hired Flip.

yes? I'm not sure I've disputed any of that in the slightest

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...which is exactly why they ate Blake’s money, signed Foles and hired Flip.

yes? I'm not sure I've disputed any of that in the slightest

I just find this narrative to be a bit funny. 

Fan: This team needs an above average passing attack!! 

Jaguars:  Spend 50 million on the best available FA QB and hire a respected OC

Fan: This team needs an above average passing attack!!

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Foles in 2018: 7 games played, 10 Tds, 8 picks passer rating of 83. So no he wasn't at a better than average level in 2018 at least. 

And there's zero argument that Wentz was considerably better than him in the regular season over the last two years. For example Wentzs passer rating in the regular season these last two years is 101, Foles is......87.

The thing is you can't just look at one player's statistics or one position statistics to make a determination.  For example, per your stats Foles threw 10 TD's.  How many TD's did his team make by running the ball?  Looking at the passer rating, what exactly goes into that formula and does it account for how a team plays the game?  It's not always about stats, it's about how they play the game as a TEAM.

I know what your saying in on some teams the passing game includes a lot of YAC yards. However, that's not really the case in Philly where the passing yards were mostly because of precision downfield strikes by Foles.

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'02

I don't care that he's better than Wentz. I just want him to be a lot better than Bortles.

Unfortunately a lot of talent had to be cut to bring in Foles so now the defence will likely play at a lower level.

You want a Foles/Keenum/whoever mediocre QB when they come cheap.

Paying for a franchise QB doesn't seem to bring much success unless they are hall of fame worthy.

Either need to draft the next Tom Brady or make sure you win in the rookie contract of your so so QB
Or pick one up for peanuts.

I don't see how you're lumping Foles in with Keenum. By no means is Foles a mediocre QB.

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'02

Speaking of Foles' stats, he started three late season games vs the Rams, Texans and Redskins with a rather lofty passing stat total...

• 3 starts, 85 of 113 (75.2%) for 962 yards (8.5 YPA), 6 TDs and 3 INts for a 106.9 passer rating
  

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'02

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yes? I'm not sure I've disputed any of that in the slightest

I just find this narrative to be a bit funny. 

Fan: This team needs an above average passing attack!! 

Jaguars:  Spend 50 million on the best available FA QB and hire a respected OC

Fan: This team needs an above average passing attack!!

What's contradictory about that? Team needs above average passing attack...pairs average at best QB baseline with significantly below average receiving corps.

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Hmmm.... There's a lot in this thread, so I'm just gonna touch on the meat of the subject.

Wentz>Foles>Bortles /discussion

The Eagles pretty much couldn't keep Foles even if they wanted to based on the way the contract wording was, iirc. They had an option that he could decline, and I believe I remember something about the tag wasn't an option?

But some people should probably pump the brakes slightly on the Foles hype.
Our roster is not the Eagles roster. And prior to having said roster, Foles was very much just a dude in this league. Never started a full season. And his best season (save for winning a Superbowl as a sub) was Chip Kelly's first year. And what amounted to a flash in the pan in a gimmicky offense.

I love the potential, I'm glad we have moved on from the Bortles experiment... but Foles is currently a highly paid average QB we're all super excited about because we had a bad QB that sometimes would play excitingly average.

Remember the beginning of my post? Wentz is the better QB, it's why the Eagles drafted him and kept him over some silly idea of paying Foles and trading Wentz.

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Foles is currently the 14th highest paid QB in the NFL.
And in a couple of years, with more QBs needing extensions, and the salary cap going up, he'll probably slip to around 20th.
Carson Wentz is being paid $32 million a year. That's $10 million a year more than Foles.
So, I wouldn't say Foles is particularly expensive.

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I just find this narrative to be a bit funny. 

Fan: This team needs an above average passing attack!! 

Jaguars:  Spend 50 million on the best available FA QB and hire a respected OC

Fan: This team needs an above average passing attack!!

What's contradictory about that? Team needs above average passing attack...pairs average at best QB baseline with significantly below average receiving corps.

I'd prefer to put  it this way: Team needs a much better passing attack...so the team makes a major upgrade at QB.  I don't understand why anyone would complain about that.

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Foles is currently the 14th highest paid QB in the NFL.  
And in a couple of years, with more QBs needing extensions, and the salary cap going up, he'll probably slip to around 20th.  
Carson Wentz is being paid $32 million a year.   That's $10 million a year more than Foles.  
So, I wouldn't say Foles is particularly expensive.

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What's contradictory about that? Team needs above average passing attack...pairs average at best QB baseline with significantly below average receiving corps.

I'd prefer to put  it this way: Team needs a much better passing attack...so the team makes a major upgrade at QB.  I don't understand why anyone would complain about that.

It's that same as the developmental QB paradox:

Fans: This team never drafts a developmental QB

Team: Takes 6th round QB

Fans: NOT THAT GUY!!!!!!!!!

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Wait and see, people. Wait and see.

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Speaking of Foles' stats, he started three late season games vs the Rams, Texans and Redskins with a rather lofty passing stat total...

• 3 starts, 85 of 113 (75.2%) for 962 yards (8.5 YPA), 6 TDs and 3 INts for a 106.9 passer rating
  

I like that even though he was in Philly's get-the-ball-out-quickly offense, he doesn't seem to be simply a system guy. He's willing and able to complete shots downfield. He can be a good play-action QB.

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"I am only an average man, but by George, I work harder at it than the average man." - Teddy Roosevelt

Nick Foles averaged more pass attempts per game so I'd certainly hope he'd have more ypg. The vast majority of the stats Wentz is ahead, you can keep your ypg and completion % lol If you're trying to prove Nick Foles is better using stats at least be aware of what stats you're using and which ones matter. 

I'll take it. Aside from winning percentage, completion percentage, QBR, YPG (and a high TD to INT ratio) are ultimately the most important stats.  You say the "vast majority" of stats show Wentz was better when you really mean a few. And a few show Foles was better. Anyway, the point has been about whether an argument could be made that Foles played as well or even better than Wentz the last couple of years. Clearly he's played well enough that that's a legitimate conversation. 

And there's zero argument that Wentz was considerably better than him in the regular season over the last two years.

As far as I know, you're the only one who's claiming that somebody implied that Foles was considerably better than Wentz the last two years. I'll just say that a player doesn't have to be in the top-5 of his position to be considered a quality starter and better than average.

You said a lot of Philly fans thought keeping Wentz over Foles was a mistake, implying thats a majority opinion, when in reality its a minority opinion.

I said a lot of Philly fans. You're the only one who interpreted that to mean a majority of their fans felt that way. I'll stand by what I said unless somebody can prove me wrong.

I'm all for rooting for Foles and thinking he can be effective enough for us this year, there's just no need to blow everything out of proportion instead of just taking him for what he is

Well, we can agree on this point at least, probably best we leave it at that.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

Nick Foles averaged more pass attempts per game so I'd certainly hope he'd have more ypg. The vast majority of the stats Wentz is ahead, you can keep your ypg and completion % lol If you're trying to prove Nick Foles is better using stats at least be aware of what stats you're using and which ones matter. 

I'll take it. Aside from winning percentage, completion percentage, QBR, YPG (and a high TD to INT ratio) are ultimately the most important stats.  You say the "vast majority" of stats show Wentz was better when you really mean a few. And a few show Foles was better. Anyway, the point has been about whether an argument could be made that Foles played as well or even better than Wentz the last couple of years. Clearly he's played well enough that that's a legitimate conversation. 

And there's zero argument that Wentz was considerably better than him in the regular season over the last two years.

As far as I know, you're the only one who's claiming that somebody implied that Foles was considerably better than Wentz the last two years. I'll just say that a player doesn't have to be in the top-5 of his position to be considered a quality starter and better than average.

You said a lot of Philly fans thought keeping Wentz over Foles was a mistake, implying thats a majority opinion, when in reality its a minority opinion.

I said a lot of Philly fans. You're the only one who interpreted that to mean a majority of their fans felt that way. I'll stand by what I said unless somebody can prove me wrong.

I'm all for rooting for Foles and thinking he can be effective enough for us this year, there's just no need to blow everything out of proportion instead of just taking him for what he is

Well, we can agree on this point at least, probably best we leave it at that.

I'll say this... across social media prior to and right after free agency I remember seeing quite a few "Keep Foles" "Foles is the better QB" type hot takes.
I never heard an Eagle fan say it in person.
And I'm not sure it was ever much more than hope to keep around a really good insurance policy in Foles. Wentz has had some mechanical things and injury issues that give some pundits and fans pause, so it isn't out the realm to think some people prefer the guy who won the SB over the kid who has had a couple really good regular season runs.

Fans gonna fan

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I'll take it. Aside from winning percentage, completion percentage, QBR, YPG (and a high TD to INT ratio) are ultimately the most important stats.  You say the "vast majority" of stats show Wentz was better when you really mean a few. And a few show Foles was better. Anyway, the point has been about whether an argument could be made that Foles played as well or even better than Wentz the last couple of years. Clearly he's played well enough that that's a legitimate conversation. 


As far as I know, you're the only one who's claiming that somebody implied that Foles was considerably better than Wentz the last two years. I'll just say that a player doesn't have to be in the top-5 of his position to be considered a quality starter and better than average.


I said a lot of Philly fans. You're the only one who interpreted that to mean a majority of their fans felt that way. I'll stand by what I said unless somebody can prove me wrong.


Well, we can agree on this point at least, probably best we leave it at that.

I'll say this... across social media prior to and right after free agency I remember seeing quite a few "Keep Foles" "Foles is the better QB" type hot takes.
I never heard an Eagle fan say it in person.
And I'm not sure it was ever much more than hope to keep around a really good insurance policy in Foles. Wentz has had some mechanical things and injury issues that give some pundits and fans pause, so it isn't out the realm to think some people prefer the guy who won the SB over the kid who has had a couple really good regular season runs.

Fans gonna fan

Foles is decent and did what was needed when called upon.  I only have pause due to his overall body of work.  I've seen wayyyyy to many QBs(even rookies) come in and look good for a few games, regular or postseason.  I wish he would've played a full season with the Eagles to give a stat line to go off of.  He is here now, so with all of the question marks around the cap and will the offense look more professional, hopefully he can come in and shed all doubt about his durability and consistency.  

That's why i can't accept anything less than playoffs.  We've invested too much into trying to right this offense to stay stagnant and not improve to a consistent playoff contender.

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Season Tix, Section 409

2023 and still counting.....SB will finally be ours soon enough.
TLaw aka 'the prince that was promised' supporter.

I'll say this... across social media prior to and right after free agency I remember seeing quite a few "Keep Foles" "Foles is the better QB" type hot takes.
I never heard an Eagle fan say it in person.
And I'm not sure it was ever much more than hope to keep around a really good insurance policy in Foles. Wentz has had some mechanical things and injury issues that give some pundits and fans pause, so it isn't out the realm to think some people prefer the guy who won the SB over the kid who has had a couple really good regular season runs.

Fans gonna fan

Foles is decent and did what was needed when called upon.  I only have pause due to his overall body of work.  I've seen wayyyyy to many QBs(even rookies) come in and look good for a few games, regular or postseason.  I wish he would've played a full season with the Eagles to give a stat line to go off of.  He is here now, so with all of the question marks around the cap and will the offense look more professional, hopefully he can come in and shed all doubt about his durability and consistency.  

That's why i can't accept anything less than playoffs.  We've invested too much into trying to right this offense to stay stagnant and not improve to a consistent playoff contender.

Yeah the big knock is that he's never done it for a full year and early in his career he was having trouble turning that corner. He'll never be a great player but he's not getting paid like one and he doesn't really need to be a top-5 guy for the Jags.  The key is that based on what we know he should be able to play at a reasonable level *consistently* and that's all the Jags really need with the defense they have.  My concerns are A) can the OL stay healthy and protect him, B) can the running game become a consistent threat and C) can we get some production out of the tight end position. (I know, those are everybody else's concern too.) If that happens though, you won't have to worry about them being in the playoffs, they'll be there and probably as the AFC South Champions.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

I was watching NFL Network yesterday, and they were asking the question, which team had the best chance of going from last to first in their division, and out of 16 analysts that they polled, 12 of them picked the Jaguars.

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Nick Foles averaged more pass attempts per game so I'd certainly hope he'd have more ypg. The vast majority of the stats Wentz is ahead, you can keep your ypg and completion % lol If you're trying to prove Nick Foles is better using stats at least be aware of what stats you're using and which ones matter. 

I'll take it. Aside from winning percentage, completion percentage, QBR, YPG (and a high TD to INT ratio) are ultimately the most important stats.  You say the "vast majority" of stats show Wentz was better when you really mean a few. And a few show Foles was better. Anyway, the point has been about whether an argument could be made that Foles played as well or even better than Wentz the last couple of years. Clearly he's played well enough that that's a legitimate conversation. 

And there's zero argument that Wentz was considerably better than him in the regular season over the last two years.

As far as I know, you're the only one who's claiming that somebody implied that Foles was considerably better than Wentz the last two years. I'll just say that a player doesn't have to be in the top-5 of his position to be considered a quality starter and better than average.

You said a lot of Philly fans thought keeping Wentz over Foles was a mistake, implying thats a majority opinion, when in reality its a minority opinion.

I said a lot of Philly fans. You're the only one who interpreted that to mean a majority of their fans felt that way. I'll stand by what I said unless somebody can prove me wrong.

I'm all for rooting for Foles and thinking he can be effective enough for us this year, there's just no need to blow everything out of proportion instead of just taking him for what he is

Well, we can agree on this point at least, probably best we leave it at that.

Stats Carson Wentz was better than Nick Foles at in 2018: 

QB rating 
YPA
TD% 
INT% 
 Y/C
ANY/A

Stats Foles was better at 

QBR ( the same stat has Mitch Trubisky as the 4th most effective QB in football in 2018) 
Ypg (6 more yards a game on 4 extra passes is not good) 
Completion %
 Ehh wins? 

Yeah that definitely seems like a vast majority to me. 


Ok so we can agree that what you actually meant was a minority of Eagles fans thought Wentz should go. And that's fair, I don't think there was a lot though, a noisy minority would be an apt description.

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yes? I'm not sure I've disputed any of that in the slightest

I just find this narrative to be a bit funny. 

Fan: This team needs an above average passing attack!! 

Jaguars:  Spend 50 million on the best available FA QB and hire a respected OC

Fan: This team needs an above average passing attack!!

Fan: This team needs a QB!

Jaguars: drafts an injury prone RB at #4 overall

Fan: this team needs a QB! 

Jaguars: doubles down on Blake Bortles 

Fan: this team needs a QB! 

Jaguars: doesn't draft one and settles for a QB in the low end/average tier 

Fan: I mean okay short term fix I guess? Still have serious doubts about the overall talent level of the offense and if our support system can replicate what Foles had with the Eagles 

Also, as you well know, the Jags don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. When this above average passing game (and wins) show up in 2019 I'll happily praise them for getting it right

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I just find this narrative to be a bit funny. 

Fan: This team needs an above average passing attack!! 

Jaguars:  Spend 50 million on the best available FA QB and hire a respected OC

Fan: This team needs an above average passing attack!!

Fan: This team needs a QB!

Jaguars: drafts an injury prone RB at #4 overall

Fan: this team needs a QB! 

Jaguars: doubles down on Blake Bortles 

Fan: this team needs a QB! 

Jaguars: doesn't draft one and settles for a QB in the low end/average tier 

Fan: I mean okay short term fix I guess? Still have serious doubts about the overall talent level of the offense and if our support system can replicate what Foles had with the Eagles 

Also, as you well know, the Jags don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. When this above average passing game (and wins) show up in 2019 I'll happily praise them for getting it right

Totally disagree with "low end/average tier" for Foles. Bortles was "low end/average." Foles is much better than that. Put aside the stats and watch the guy play. He's an above average QB in this league. 

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'02

I've just got a feeling there are going to be a lot of disappointed people here this year.

I hope I'm wrong.

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