(11-13-2019, 06:21 PM)jj82284 Wrote:

(11-13-2019, 06:00 PM)mikesez Wrote: I thought Schiff and Jordan both made their cases pretty well.  Nunes was pretty ineffective.
I wonder if the Democrats can show that Ukraine knew aid was being withheld prior to the July 25th call.  I think the Democrats' accusations become less serious, but still very serious, if Ukraine did not know.  It would show Trump's people to be corrupt but incompetent, which I suppose is less serious than corrupt and competent.
For their part, Republicans could show that Trump was pursuing "corruption in general" in Ukraine as they allege.  The transcript that we have, which is not complete, only mentions crowdstrike and Burisma.  And it only mentions Burisma in connection with Biden - not in general.  If they can show that Trump's interests were actually broad, they could justify that more easily as being "national interest".  But I doubt they have the evidence for that.  We would have seen it by now.

There u go again...

 Alleged obstruction of justice.  Any potential crime or corrupt act by an Americam citizen in public office meets the definition of the national interest.  There is no such requirement that it must be part of a broader or general investigative package. The only question is whether the request or suspicion is properly predicated.

The president cannot simply start investigations.
He appoints prosecutors.
The prosecutors look at facts and form reasonable suspicion that crimes or corrupt acts may have taken place. Then they start issuing subpoenas and warrants. If the person or thing was in another country, at that point and only at that point would it be appropriate to approach their counterparts in that country to obtain that information.
All that said, the witnesses we have heard from so far have indicated that Biden wanted Ukraine's prosecutor fired because that prosecutor was being too soft on Burisma's founder. Not that he was being too tough. If that's true it would be a case of promoting justice not obstructing it. If probable cause exists that Biden was actually trying to stymie a prosecution, the Republicans should be able to find a willing witness with credible knowledge of this.

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