(12-17-2019, 02:59 PM)pirkster Wrote: Let's stop clowning ourselves.  The truth is out, and the President was not proven to have done a single thing impeachable.  Not unexpected, given the facts we had both before and after the shampeachment effort.

It's over.  The voters will not forget, and the left keeps digging it's own political grave deeper and deeper by the minute.

Intellectually honest folks would self reflect and self improve at this stage.  A lot of good, smart people have been fooled.  All that anger is misdirected at the President they hate, but would be better served directed at the politicians and media who took them for fools.

You first. You might as well be wearing a rubber nose from what I see.

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(12-17-2019, 04:05 PM)copycat Wrote:

(12-17-2019, 01:20 PM)mikesez Wrote: I am advocating that the people who were in the room when it happened testify under oath. I don't see why that should turn into a circus. If their testimony explains how they were doing this the right way for the right reasons, then there is no need for anything else. If their testimony instead shows that the impressions of these lower diplomats were correct, then the president was abusing his power and needs to be removed immediately.

You can't have this both ways. if you think that all these people who have already testified under oath have false impressions, you should want the people who know better to testify saying so. If you think that their impressions were accurate, but that this is somehow not abusive, you should want them to testify explaining why it was not abusive.  if you really think there is a deep state, this kind of open-ended testimony seems like a pretty good chance to expose it, wouldn't you think?

You can't fault to the House prosecutors for trying to move on flimsy evidence, and then prevent them from accessing better evidence. That's unfair and you know it.

We have the actual transcript of the call.  No here say, no speculation, no conjecture and especially no feelings!

1) It's not a transcript. 
2) he didn't want us to have it.
3) what Trump said on the call that day is not the only things that were said by his people to the leadership of Ukraine
4) it shows that Trump doesn't believe his own intelligence agencies about who hacked the DNC and why
5) it shows a particular obsession with Joe Biden applied to foreign relations.
6) it does not show any generalized concern for corruption in Ukraine.

So yeah I looked at it.
I see probable cause to start an investigation just in that document by itself.

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