So, let me get this straight. What you actually said was "hard work beats talent." 

NOW, you are saying that talent plus hard work -  is better than  - talent without hard work? 

The first is utter nonsense. The second is as obvious as the nose on my face.

This is to complicated for you

*too

Please explain.  I'd love to hear you expound on this difficult topic.

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No it doesn't.

If it did, all those hard working practice squad players would be starting.

You need hard work AND talent.

I see it as, if you put in the hard work your talent will elevate everything you do on the field. If you don't put in the hard work your talent only gets you so far. 

In Ramsey's case (and others who have a tremendous amount of natural ability) he is undisciplined and shoots himself in the foot by not putting the work in to enhance his abilities. He thinks he's just fine because he always has been. The problem is he's not in high school and college anymore. Everyone in the NFL is elite compared to those who aren't in the pros. If he wants to be great he's going to have to work for it.

So now we are under the impression that Ramsey is lazy?

He really hurt some of you bad didn't he?

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This is to complicated for you

*too

Please explain.  I'd love to hear you expound on this difficult topic.

Ok, let's try this.  You can have 2 guys, one more talented than the other doing the same thing whether it be fighting or whatever.  If that less talented guy works his [BLEEP] off the the other guy doesnt put in the work looks over the guy or the next opponent and his work ethic isnt there, more often than not the less talented guy is going to come out on top and take that guys job.  If talent was the only thing that matters these workout warriors would always be at the top and all the 1st round picks would never lose their jobs.  Some guys put in the work and outwork others to the top.  A lot of these undrafted guys like AJ Bouye are a good example

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I see it as, if you put in the hard work your talent will elevate everything you do on the field. If you don't put in the hard work your talent only gets you so far. 

In Ramsey's case (and others who have a tremendous amount of natural ability) he is undisciplined and shoots himself in the foot by not putting the work in to enhance his abilities. He thinks he's just fine because he always has been. The problem is he's not in high school and college anymore. Everyone in the NFL is elite compared to those who aren't in the pros. If he wants to be great he's going to have to work for it.

So now we are under the impression that Ramsey is lazy?

He really hurt some of you bad didn't he?

It's a fair question, he is the only player that skipped voluntary training camp the last 2 years and his play has declined and its showing on the field.  He says he was working out and that was the best thing for him but it sure doesnt look like it and its shown by his play on the field. No player on the Jags play has declined more than Ramseys in the last 2 years. He went from All Pro to not even worthy of a Pro Bowl unless he picks his game up

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I see it as, if you put in the hard work your talent will elevate everything you do on the field. If you don't put in the hard work your talent only gets you so far. 

In Ramsey's case (and others who have a tremendous amount of natural ability) he is undisciplined and shoots himself in the foot by not putting the work in to enhance his abilities. He thinks he's just fine because he always has been. The problem is he's not in high school and college anymore. Everyone in the NFL is elite compared to those who aren't in the pros. If he wants to be great he's going to have to work for it.

So now we are under the impression that Ramsey is lazy?

He really hurt some of you bad didn't he?

Yeah, he did and it is hilarious isn't it?

I still think Ramsey is a top 5 CB, like when he was here. Also I'd still take Mathis over Ramsey even though Ramsey has more talent. 

I actually think Mathis is underrated here, he was a top 3 CB in his prime, imo.

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*too

Please explain.  I'd love to hear you expound on this difficult topic.

Ok, let's try this.  You can have 2 guys, one more talented than the other doing the same thing whether it be fighting or whatever.  If that less talented guy works his [BLEEP] off the the other guy doesnt put in the work looks over the guy or the next opponent and his work ethic isnt there, more often than not the less talented guy is going to come out on top and take that guys job.  If talent was the only thing that matters these workout warriors would always be at the top and all the 1st round picks would never lose their jobs.  Some guys put in the work and outwork others to the top.  A lot of these undrafted guys like AJ Bouye are a good example

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So instead of "hard work beats talent" you are now saying that sometimes, under the right circumstances, a less talented player can outperform a more talented player because the talented guy isn't putting the work in.  OK. That's true. 

I challenge your "more often than not" assertion.  I think that is poor speculation on your part. 

I believe it is far more common for athletes with superior talent and middling to poor work ethic to still come out on top vs inferior talent. The exceptions to that certainly exist, and it's a sliding scale, but it's not tough to see that it is uncommon.

I see it all the time in my field of work and I see it every time I attend a Jags practice and in many games as well. 
Guys with superior talent have a major leg up on guys that have to work their tails off just to survive the next round of cuts. 

 We all love the underdogs who persevere and succeed despite that strike against them - but it is not nearly as common as you are attempting to make it out to be.

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Sounds like everyone is kinda saying the same thing. Dude hit the gene pool lottery and was blessed with a lot of natural talent but is a bit of a headcase which is preventing him for reaching his full potential. And since he was always more physically gifted than everyone else growing up, he probably never had to put in the same amount of hard work to achieve success as others. Really good player when he wants to be but getting bored / lazy / undisciplined (whatever you want to call it) hurts his status of being considered the best in the game. And him being a bit of a headcase rubs people the wrong way. If he ever matures and reaches his full potential it'll be a bummer that won't happen here. But if he stays the same person while slowly declining in ability as he ages, it's not the end of the world that he is gone.

Rams have a tough schedule the rest of the year. Here's hoping they tank and finish with a better draft pick than us!

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________________________________________________
Scouting well is all that matters.  Draft philosophy is all fluff.

Sounds like everyone is kinda saying the same thing.  Dude hit the gene pool lottery and was blessed with a lot of natural talent but is a bit of a headcase which is preventing him for reaching his full potential.  And since he was always more physically gifted than everyone else growing up, he probably never had to put in the same amount of hard work to achieve success as others.  Really good player when he wants to be but getting bored / lazy /  undisciplined (whatever you want to call it) hurts his status of being considered the best in the game.  And him being a bit of a headcase rubs people the wrong way.  If he ever matures and reaches his full potential it'll be a bummer that won't happen here.  But if he stays the same person while slowly declining in ability as he ages, it's not the end of the world that he is gone.

Rams have a tough schedule the rest of the year.  Here's hoping they tank and finish with a better draft pick than us!

Probably an accurate assessment. Very Antonio Brown-like. You can't fix stupid.

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Sounds like everyone is kinda saying the same thing.  Dude hit the gene pool lottery and was blessed with a lot of natural talent but is a bit of a headcase which is preventing him for reaching his full potential.  And since he was always more physically gifted than everyone else growing up, he probably never had to put in the same amount of hard work to achieve success as others.  Really good player when he wants to be but getting bored / lazy /  undisciplined (whatever you want to call it) hurts his status of being considered the best in the game.  And him being a bit of a headcase rubs people the wrong way.  If he ever matures and reaches his full potential it'll be a bummer that won't happen here.  But if he stays the same person while slowly declining in ability as he ages, it's not the end of the world that he is gone.

Rams have a tough schedule the rest of the year.  Here's hoping they tank and finish with a better draft pick than us!

Ramsey is what happens you combine god given talent/athletic ability with elite work ethic and drive. 

If you want to argue he lacked that same drive this year for various reasons I'd probably agree but the narrative that Jalen is lazy/doesn't work hard isn't a sound one.  

The Jags actually gave Jalen more leeway than most becuase they knew he'd show up ready to go and with his body in near perfect shape.

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I'm sure Ramsey works his tail off to be in shape he is in, but I don't think he takes the mental part of the game seriously. If all he is asked to do is shadow top receivers, he looks great. He just has to study one guy's tendencies, and it probably doesn't require a lot of thought to play this way. If he ever expects to be as great as he thinks he is, he needs to learn the rest of the game better.

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He's like Richard Sherman in his prime, but without the Stanford education, so his "mind-games" turn out to be just a bunch of random cuss words and "your mama..." jokes

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I'm sure Ramsey works his tail off to be in shape he is in, but I don't think he takes the mental part of the game seriously.  If all he is asked to do is shadow top receivers, he looks great.  He just has to study one guy's tendencies, and it probably doesn't require a lot of thought to play this way.  If he ever expects to be as great as he thinks he is, he needs to learn the rest of the game better.

He's been a top 5 corner over the last few years. That's pretty "great". 

You don't get to shut down as many elite WRs as him through ability only. That requires lots of film and IQ to process what the offense is trying to do. 

I swear you guys didn't pay attention to Ramsey while he was here..or more likely are trying to revise what you thought of him because he decided to leave the team you follow lol

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I see it as, if you put in the hard work your talent will elevate everything you do on the field. If you don't put in the hard work your talent only gets you so far. 

In Ramsey's case (and others who have a tremendous amount of natural ability) he is undisciplined and shoots himself in the foot by not putting the work in to enhance his abilities. He thinks he's just fine because he always has been. The problem is he's not in high school and college anymore. Everyone in the NFL is elite compared to those who aren't in the pros. If he wants to be great he's going to have to work for it.

So now we are under the impression that Ramsey is lazy?

He really hurt some of you bad didn't he?

Where did I say he was lazy? I didn't.

He is like many who have high level talent in thinking that's all he needs to be as elite in the NFL as he was leading up to it. All he has to do is show up and do his thing and it's all good. We all know that's not true. To be elite he has to put in the hard work, otherwise he's going to be above average on the regular with bursts of how good we know he can be.

Like mentioned by another poster, Ramsey has the physical part down, it's the mental side he needs to work on. Myles Jack is the same in that he is physically capable to do his job (for the most part) and works hard at that part but he misses a lot in the mental/football IQ part.

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So now we are under the impression that Ramsey is lazy?

He really hurt some of you bad didn't he?

Where did I say he was lazy? I didn't.

He is like many who have high level talent in thinking that's all he needs to be as elite in the NFL as he was leading up to it. All he has to do is show up and do his thing and it's all good. We all know that's not true. To be elite he has to put in the hard work, otherwise he's going to be above average on the regular with bursts of how good we know he can be.

Like mentioned by another poster, Ramsey has the physical part down, it's the mental side he needs to work on. Myles Jack is the same in that he is physically capable to do his job (for the most part) and works hard at that part but he misses a lot in the mental/football IQ part.

When you said "Not putting the work in to enhance his abilities", that's pretty much calling him lazy. And how do you know his mental side needs work?  You honestly have no clue how much he works on the mental side of his game. 

You're trying to label Ramsey as a certain type of player (which a lot of people are now that he's gone) only because he treated the Jags poorly.

When Ramsey lines up against the best WRs in the game, he holds them to well below their usual catch% and QB rating when targeting them. That's just a fact. You don't get those types of stats strictly based on talent. You get them because of hard work on the field and film room.

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I'm sure Ramsey works his tail off to be in shape he is in, but I don't think he takes the mental part of the game seriously.  If all he is asked to do is shadow top receivers, he looks great.  He just has to study one guy's tendencies, and it probably doesn't require a lot of thought to play this way.  If he ever expects to be as great as he thinks he is, he needs to learn the rest of the game better.

He's been a top 5 corner over the last few years. That's pretty "great". 

You don't get to shut down as many elite WRs as him through ability only. That requires lots of film and IQ to process what the offense is trying to do. 

I swear you guys didn't pay attention to Ramsey while he was here..or more likely are trying to revise what you thought of him because he decided to leave the team you follow lol

I'm not "revising" anything.  He's been great at running side by side with the best, but what's his problem right now?  From what I've been reading, he's not looking so good with the Rams so far.

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He's been a top 5 corner over the last few years. That's pretty "great". 

You don't get to shut down as many elite WRs as him through ability only. That requires lots of film and IQ to process what the offense is trying to do. 

I swear you guys didn't pay attention to Ramsey while he was here..or more likely are trying to revise what you thought of him because he decided to leave the team you follow lol

I'm not "revising" anything.  He's been great at running side by side with the best, but what's his problem right now?  From what I've been reading, he's not looking so good with the Rams so far.

Nobody is disputing he isn't playing to his usual standard right now.  There are many factors that can go into that aside from being not working hard or having bad football IQ. 

It's lazy analysis from fans who are still upset about Jalen and not based in reality. Saying he's been lazy or hasn't worked hard enough on film study isn't backed up by anything

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He's been a top 5 corner over the last few years. That's pretty "great". 

You don't get to shut down as many elite WRs as him through ability only. That requires lots of film and IQ to process what the offense is trying to do. 

I swear you guys didn't pay attention to Ramsey while he was here..or more likely are trying to revise what you thought of him because he decided to leave the team you follow lol

I'm not "revising" anything.  He's been great at running side by side with the best, but what's his problem right now?  From what I've been reading, he's not looking so good with the Rams so far.

Maybe they asked him to play zone.

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I'm not "revising" anything.  He's been great at running side by side with the best, but what's his problem right now?  From what I've been reading, he's not looking so good with the Rams so far.

Nobody is disputing he isn't playing to his usual standard right now.  There are many factors that can go into that aside from being not working hard or having bad football IQ. 

It's lazy analysis from fans who are still upset about Jalen and not based in reality. Saying he's been lazy or hasn't worked hard enough on film study isn't backed up by anything

It's a message board.  Not sure you're in the right place if you're expecting a whole lot of professional analysis.

Here's what we know...  Ramsey does not like playing zone coverage.  Ramsey wasn't interested in attending meetings and film study or practicing with his team mates in the offseason - no biggie, it's voluntary.  Ramsey has apologized publicly for getting bored on the field in L.A.  Ramsey's ego was too big for Jacksonville.  Ramsey is not playing well in L.A.  Ramsey is a phenomenal athlete capable of limiting or completely shutting down receivers when matched up one-on-one.

Pretty much everything else is speculation.  And I could chose to speculate that because he is a phenomenal athlete with a huge ego, he could very easily take parts of the game for granted and it could affect his performance.  Or maybe his back is still bothering him.

I'm just happy he's not helping them make our shiny, new Rams draft picks any worse.

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He's been a top 5 corner over the last few years. That's pretty "great". 

You don't get to shut down as many elite WRs as him through ability only. That requires lots of film and IQ to process what the offense is trying to do. 

I swear you guys didn't pay attention to Ramsey while he was here..or more likely are trying to revise what you thought of him because he decided to leave the team you follow lol

I'm not "revising" anything.  He's been great at running side by side with the best, but what's his problem right now?  From what I've been reading, he's not looking so good with the Rams so far.

Maybe his back hurts.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

I'm not "revising" anything.  He's been great at running side by side with the best, but what's his problem right now?  From what I've been reading, he's not looking so good with the Rams so far.

Maybe his back hurts.

Or maybe if he got a haircut he would play better.....

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Ramsey is what happens you combine god given talent/athletic ability with elite work ethic and drive. 

If you want to argue he lacked that same drive this year for various reasons I'd probably agree but the narrative that Jalen is lazy/doesn't work hard isn't a sound one.  

The Jags actually gave Jalen more leeway than most becuase they knew he'd show up ready to go and with his body in near perfect shape.

Call it whatever you want.  He can shut down most WRs, even great ones, when he chooses to.  But he doesnt always.  Maybe that isn't laziness, maybe it's boredom.  Maybe it's a lack of preparation some weeks.  Maybe its immaturity and a lack of professionalism.   In some occasions it's been him freelancing and not running the play that was called. Whatever it is or whatever you want to call it, he doesn't always play up to his abilities.  In any given week or heck any given drive, you dont know if you are getting great Jalen or average Jalen.  Been a few games now and the Rams clearly havent been getting great Jalen.  

As I said before, if he ever puts it all together and reaches his full potential, bummer it won't be here.  But at this point, I hope the Rams continue to falter as we'll be better off for it.

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Scouting well is all that matters.  Draft philosophy is all fluff.