Now we've gone to saying that Coughlin cussed out Ramsey, hmm?

I admit that I do not know that, but I think it's a safe assumption, based on subsequent events.

Lol, based on subsequent events Coughlin could've told him he couldn't have chocolate ice cream after how he acted on the sideline and provoked his spoiled brat routine; the quitter is that fragile.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2019/10/17...ont-office

Interesting article with some valid points. I do believe Coughlin has one foot out the door with the whole Ramsey situation. Anytime the owner has to jump in to try to solve an issue that the EVP couldn’t handle, it’s not a good look. Couple that with the “playoffs or bust” mandate set by Shad Khan in the offseason and the picture becomes more clear. With that said could Tony be the heir apparent to replace Coughlin? It certainly seems he is being groomed for a larger role as he is currently the EVP of football administration and technology (analytics) and he’s been front man in identifying prospects from the UDFA pool.

I've not seen anything other than speculation that Coughlin mishandled Ramsey's fragile ego and that speculation is based solely on Coughlin's reputation as a hard [BLEEP].  Regardless of his reputation, nobody in Coughlin's previous regimes with his first stint with the Jags and his time with the Giants has behaved as Jalen has nor has anyone up and walked away like Telvin has.  I'd say his long resume of these things not happening coupled with his success says this is less about him and more about Jalen and to a lesser extent Telvin, but at least with Telvin's situation we have really no idea why he quit.  Citing the owner's involvement at the end of Jalen's tenure here as some sort of proof of Coughlin's mishandling is a bit of a stretch considering Jalen played Shad just as much even after their "heart to heart".  If Shad came in and was able to convince Jalen to want to stay, then I might agree that Coughlin might be somewhat responsible. 

Jalen wanted out of Jacksonville.  He committed to that stance a while ago for whatever reason.  Remember, Jalen was on twitter a year ago saying "when I'm gone from here, ya'll gone miss me.  I ain't even trippin lol".  Some blew that off at the time, but its pretty apparent now he wanted out even last year but was too far away from free agency and the franchise tag for his tactic of faking a back injury to work.  I'm a little shocked the Rams gave up so much and didn't have an extension worked out as part of the trade.  We'll see what happens as he approaches free agency toward the end of next year, but the Rams might end up with a very expensive rental.

---

https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2019/10/17...ont-office

Interesting article with some valid points. I do believe Coughlin has one foot out the door with the whole Ramsey situation. Anytime the owner has to jump in to try to solve an issue that the EVP couldn’t handle, it’s not a good look. Couple that with the “playoffs or bust” mandate set by Shad Khan in the offseason and the picture becomes more clear. With that said could Tony be the heir apparent to replace Coughlin? It certainly seems he is being groomed for a larger role as he is currently the EVP of football administration and technology (analytics) and he’s been front man in identifying prospects from the UDFA pool.

It's extremely easy as an fan to gesture and wish for such movements within the establishment. Tony Khan's next move will be the owner of the Jaguars, nothing less. He's being groomed for that and that only. Shad has strategically placed all of his kids in positions of power throughout all of his businesses. 

Just as Shad is wise to attain and allow the professionals to do their jobs, Tony would be wise to do the same. Also, Mr. Khan understands the turmoil to which his team has already endured this season and it wouldn't be wise to hold Coughlin accountable for Ramsey's pouting, Smith's absence, Allen's and or for NF7's injury. It should never work that way.

Even though some of us fans has a tendency to take things personal, it's not that serious. Coughlin should stay in place until he's Truly No Longer Fit to do his job.

Time Will Tell.

NH3...

https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2019/10/17...ont-office

Interesting article with some valid points. I do believe Coughlin has one foot out the door with the whole Ramsey situation. Anytime the owner has to jump in to try to solve an issue that the EVP couldn’t handle, it’s not a good look. Couple that with the “playoffs or bust” mandate set by Shad Khan in the offseason and the picture becomes more clear. With that said could Tony be the heir apparent to replace Coughlin? It certainly seems he is being groomed for a larger role as he is currently the EVP of football administration and technology (analytics) and he’s been front man in identifying prospects from the UDFA pool.

I've not seen anything other than speculation that Coughlin mishandled Ramsey's fragile ego and that speculation is based solely on Coughlin's reputation as a hard [BLEEP].  Regardless of his reputation, nobody in Coughlin's previous regimes with his first stint with the Jags and his time with the Giants has behaved as Jalen has nor has anyone up and walked away like Telvin has.  I'd say his long resume of these things not happening coupled with his success says this is less about him and more about Jalen and to a lesser extent Telvin, but at least with Telvin's situation we have really no idea why he quit.  Citing the owner's involvement at the end of Jalen's tenure here as some sort of proof of Coughlin's mishandling is a bit of a stretch considering Jalen played Shad just as much even after their "heart to heart".  If Shad came in and was able to convince Jalen to want to stay, then I might agree that Coughlin might be somewhat responsible. 

Jalen wanted out of Jacksonville.  He committed to that stance a while ago for whatever reason.  Remember, Jalen was on twitter a year ago saying "when I'm gone from here, ya'll gone miss me.  I ain't even trippin lol".  Some blew that off at the time, but its pretty apparent now he wanted out even last year but was too far away from free agency and the franchise tag for his tactic of faking a back injury to work.  I'm a little shocked the Rams gave up so much and didn't have an extension worked out as part of the trade.  We'll see what happens as he approaches free agency toward the end of next year, but the Rams might end up with a very expensive rental.

Few disagreements with this. Based on everything we've heard Shad intervened and took ownership of the Jalen trade talks, i.e took it out of Tom's hands. And based on everything we've heard from people with any kind of insight that this isn't the first instance of Tom causing tension among players and stepping outside his role. Getting a warning from the NFLPA is just one example we know about, but others have suggested it's not uncommon. That meeting with Jalen also completely undermines Doug + Coughlin hiding away from the media is pathetic.

Also I think you misread the Shad and Jalen meeting towards the end. That wasn't Jalen playing Shad, that was Shad letting Jalen know they don't believe his back issue and if he doesn't play he's open to loss of money. Shad called Jalens bluff. He played this whole situation very well.

---

https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2019/10/17...ont-office

Interesting article with some valid points. I do believe Coughlin has one foot out the door with the whole Ramsey situation. Anytime the owner has to jump in to try to solve an issue that the EVP couldn’t handle, it’s not a good look. Couple that with the “playoffs or bust” mandate set by Shad Khan in the offseason and the picture becomes more clear. With that said could Tony be the heir apparent to replace Coughlin? It certainly seems he is being groomed for a larger role as he is currently the EVP of football administration and technology (analytics) and he’s been front man in identifying prospects from the UDFA pool.

I've not seen anything other than speculation that Coughlin mishandled Ramsey's fragile ego and that speculation is based solely on Coughlin's reputation as a hard [BLEEP].  Regardless of his reputation, nobody in Coughlin's previous regimes with his first stint with the Jags and his time with the Giants has behaved as Jalen has nor has anyone up and walked away like Telvin has.  I'd say his long resume of these things not happening coupled with his success says this is less about him and more about Jalen and to a lesser extent Telvin, but at least with Telvin's situation we have really no idea why he quit.  Citing the owner's involvement at the end of Jalen's tenure here as some sort of proof of Coughlin's mishandling is a bit of a stretch considering Jalen played Shad just as much even after their "heart to heart".  If Shad came in and was able to convince Jalen to want to stay, then I might agree that Coughlin might be somewhat responsible. 

Jalen wanted out of Jacksonville.  He committed to that stance a while ago for whatever reason.  Remember, Jalen was on twitter a year ago saying "when I'm gone from here, ya'll gone miss me.  I ain't even trippin lol".  Some blew that off at the time, but its pretty apparent now he wanted out even last year but was too far away from free agency and the franchise tag for his tactic of faking a back injury to work.  I'm a little shocked the Rams gave up so much and didn't have an extension worked out as part of the trade.  We'll see what happens as he approaches free agency toward the end of next year, but the Rams might end up with a very expensive rental.

You must have forgotten about his stint with the Giants?

You know the part where Michael Strahan and a couple other Veterans on that team went into Coughlin's office, sat him down and straight up told him that if he doesn't cut the [BLEEP] and change his ways that it's over for him and that locker room. That he was losing that team and losing the players..

Luckily for him that Defense had some good Vets in that locker room and they were able to keep that ship together for a little bit.

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I've not seen anything other than speculation that Coughlin mishandled Ramsey's fragile ego and that speculation is based solely on Coughlin's reputation as a hard [BLEEP].  Regardless of his reputation, nobody in Coughlin's previous regimes with his first stint with the Jags and his time with the Giants has behaved as Jalen has nor has anyone up and walked away like Telvin has.  I'd say his long resume of these things not happening coupled with his success says this is less about him and more about Jalen and to a lesser extent Telvin, but at least with Telvin's situation we have really no idea why he quit.  Citing the owner's involvement at the end of Jalen's tenure here as some sort of proof of Coughlin's mishandling is a bit of a stretch considering Jalen played Shad just as much even after their "heart to heart".  If Shad came in and was able to convince Jalen to want to stay, then I might agree that Coughlin might be somewhat responsible. 

Jalen wanted out of Jacksonville.  He committed to that stance a while ago for whatever reason.  Remember, Jalen was on twitter a year ago saying "when I'm gone from here, ya'll gone miss me.  I ain't even trippin lol".  Some blew that off at the time, but its pretty apparent now he wanted out even last year but was too far away from free agency and the franchise tag for his tactic of faking a back injury to work.  I'm a little shocked the Rams gave up so much and didn't have an extension worked out as part of the trade.  We'll see what happens as he approaches free agency toward the end of next year, but the Rams might end up with a very expensive rental.

You must have forgotten about his stint with the Giants?

You know the part where Michael Strahan and a couple other Veterans on that team went into Coughlin's office, sat him down and straight up told him that if he doesn't cut the [BLEEP] and change his ways that it's over for him and that locker room. That he was losing that team and losing the players..

Luckily for him that Defense had some good Vets in that locker room and they were able to keep that ship together for a little bit.

Hadn't forgotten about it.  It's him living up to his hard [BLEEP] reputation.  And Strahan was very complimentary of Coughlin after they had their meeting of the minds.  Again, show me where anyone prior to Jalen and Telvin that has walked away or forced their way out.  This reflects much more on them than it does on Coughlin.

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Hadn't forgotten about it.  It's him living up to his hard [BLEEP] reputation.  And Strahan was very complimentary of Coughlin after they had their meeting of the minds.  Again, show me where anyone prior to Jalen and Telvin that has walked away or forced their way out.  This reflects much more on them than it does on Coughlin.

Maybe we don't need a hard [BLEEP] who doesn't appear to do anything except hide when the tough questions are asked and only poke his head out to criticize his players.

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We're being way too hard on TC in this thread. How soon we forget that we made it to the AFCC the same year he came on board.

Also, he had a sit-down with Fournette early this offseason, and has anyone else noticed that Fournette has been a golden child for the most part since?

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'02

We're being way too hard on TC in this thread. How soon we forget that we made it to the AFCC the same year he came on board.

Also, he had a sit-down with Fournette early this offseason, and has anyone else noticed that Fournette has been a golden child for the most part since?

The same year he took a RB over two of the best young QBs in football*

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You must have forgotten about his stint with the Giants?

You know the part where Michael Strahan and a couple other Veterans on that team went into Coughlin's office, sat him down and straight up told him that if he doesn't cut the [BLEEP] and change his ways that it's over for him and that locker room. That he was losing that team and losing the players..

Luckily for him that Defense had some good Vets in that locker room and they were able to keep that ship together for a little bit.

I only remember the 2 Super Bowls.

And that time he almost got fired before winning the first one.  Because the fans were all bent out of shape by not winning.

Happens, I guess.

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It's extremely easy as an fan to gesture and wish for such movements within the establishment. Tony Khan's next move will be the owner of the Jaguars, nothing less. He's being groomed for that and that only. Shad has strategically placed all of his kids in positions of power throughout all of his businesses. 

Just as Shad is wise to attain and allow the professionals to do their jobs, Tony would be wise to do the same. Also, Mr. Khan understands the turmoil to which his team has already endured this season and it wouldn't be wise to hold Coughlin accountable for Ramsey's pouting, Smith's absence, Allen's and or for NF7's injury. It should never work that way.

Even though some of us fans has a tendency to take things personal, it's not that serious. Coughlin should stay in place until he's Truly No Longer Fit to do his job.

Time Will Tell.

NH3...

I've not seen anything other than speculation that Coughlin mishandled Ramsey's fragile ego and that speculation is based solely on Coughlin's reputation as a hard [BLEEP].  Regardless of his reputation, nobody in Coughlin's previous regimes with his first stint with the Jags and his time with the Giants has behaved as Jalen has nor has anyone up and walked away like Telvin has.  I'd say his long resume of these things not happening coupled with his success says this is less about him and more about Jalen and to a lesser extent Telvin, but at least with Telvin's situation we have really no idea why he quit.  Citing the owner's involvement at the end of Jalen's tenure here as some sort of proof of Coughlin's mishandling is a bit of a stretch considering Jalen played Shad just as much even after their "heart to heart".  If Shad came in and was able to convince Jalen to want to stay, then I might agree that Coughlin might be somewhat responsible. 

Jalen wanted out of Jacksonville.  He committed to that stance a while ago for whatever reason.  Remember, Jalen was on twitter a year ago saying "when I'm gone from here, ya'll gone miss me.  I ain't even trippin lol".  Some blew that off at the time, but its pretty apparent now he wanted out even last year but was too far away from free agency and the franchise tag for his tactic of faking a back injury to work.  I'm a little shocked the Rams gave up so much and didn't have an extension worked out as part of the trade.  We'll see what happens as he approaches free agency toward the end of next year, but the Rams might end up with a very expensive rental.

Few disagreements with this. Based on everything we've heard Shad intervened and took ownership of the Jalen trade talks, i.e took it out of Tom's hands. And based on everything we've heard from people with any kind of insight that this isn't the first instance of Tom causing tension among players and stepping outside his role. Getting a warning from the NFLPA is just one example we know about, but others have suggested it's not uncommon. That meeting with Jalen also completely undermines Doug + Coughlin hiding away from the media is pathetic.

Also I think you misread the Shad and Jalen meeting towards the end. That wasn't Jalen playing Shad, that was Shad letting Jalen know they don't believe his back issue and if he doesn't play he's open to loss of money. Shad called Jalens bluff. He played this whole situation very well.

You're taking some liberties with portraying Shad's last attempt with Jalen.  Jalen was the best talent on the roster and one of the best talents in the league and he wanted out.  Of course the owner is going to have the last word.  It doesn't automatically mean he found fault in Coughlin or his handling to that point.  If you've read something or have something that I haven't seen, by all means share it. But as you've written it above, it's just more speculation on something no one but Shad, Coughlin and Jalen know.  And Jalen's not one to hold back.  He had no problem calling out almost every QB in the league a couple of years ago which is kinda unprecedented outside of pro wrestling, boxing and MMA. Has he said specifically what made him want out? "Disrespected" is pretty vague coming from him.  It seems intentionally so.

Coughlin got a warning for stating players should be at voluntary workouts.  It was wrong to say and should have either not been said or stated more tactfully.  If Jalen's reason for wanting out is based in part or in whole on that statement, he's even more emotionally fragile than he's letting on though.

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Few disagreements with this. Based on everything we've heard Shad intervened and took ownership of the Jalen trade talks, i.e took it out of Tom's hands. And based on everything we've heard from people with any kind of insight that this isn't the first instance of Tom causing tension among players and stepping outside his role. Getting a warning from the NFLPA is just one example we know about, but others have suggested it's not uncommon. That meeting with Jalen also completely undermines Doug + Coughlin hiding away from the media is pathetic.

Also I think you misread the Shad and Jalen meeting towards the end. That wasn't Jalen playing Shad, that was Shad letting Jalen know they don't believe his back issue and if he doesn't play he's open to loss of money. Shad called Jalens bluff. He played this whole situation very well.

You're taking some liberties with portraying Shad's last attempt with Jalen.  Jalen was the best talent on the roster and one of the best talents in the league and he wanted out.  Of course the owner is going to have the last word.  It doesn't automatically mean he found fault in Coughlin or his handling to that point.  If you've read something or have something that I haven't seen, by all means share it. But as you've written it above, it's just more speculation on something no one but Shad, Coughlin and Jalen know.  And Jalen's not one to hold back.  He had no problem calling out almost every QB in the league a couple of years ago which is kinda unprecedented outside of pro wrestling, boxing and MMA. Has he said specifically what made him want out? "Disrespected" is pretty vague coming from him.  It seems intentionally so.

Coughlin got a warning for stating players should be at voluntary workouts.  It was wrong to say and should have either not been said or stated more tactfully.  If Jalen's reason for wanting out is based in part or in whole on that statement, he's even more emotionally fragile than he's letting on though.

I'm not taking liberties at all, I think you're just underplaying Shads shrewdness in this whole situation. Early on in the ordeal Shad and Tony were on the charm offensive with Jalen but at the end Shad was pretty simply calling his bluff and showing everyone what a fraud he was. I laughed when Rap described that last meeting as a "heart to heart", it was well beyond that stage. 

Also I thought it would have been plainly obvious to everyone by now that is isn't just one situation or incident that made Jalen want to leave but EVERYTHING i.e market, losing, contract, front office , Tom. It wasn't just a snap judgement after mean words from Tom.

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Coughlin isn't the issue w/respect to Telvin or Jalen.

Point Blank.

NH3...

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"AZANE"

You're taking some liberties with portraying Shad's last attempt with Jalen.  Jalen was the best talent on the roster and one of the best talents in the league and he wanted out.  Of course the owner is going to have the last word.  It doesn't automatically mean he found fault in Coughlin or his handling to that point.  If you've read something or have something that I haven't seen, by all means share it. But as you've written it above, it's just more speculation on something no one but Shad, Coughlin and Jalen know.  And Jalen's not one to hold back.  He had no problem calling out almost every QB in the league a couple of years ago which is kinda unprecedented outside of pro wrestling, boxing and MMA. Has he said specifically what made him want out? "Disrespected" is pretty vague coming from him.  It seems intentionally so.

Coughlin got a warning for stating players should be at voluntary workouts.  It was wrong to say and should have either not been said or stated more tactfully.  If Jalen's reason for wanting out is based in part or in whole on that statement, he's even more emotionally fragile than he's letting on though.

I'm not taking liberties at all, I think you're just underplaying Shads shrewdness in this whole situation. Early on in the ordeal Shad and Tony were on the charm offensive with Jalen but at the end Shad was pretty simply calling his bluff and showing everyone what a fraud he was. I laughed when Rap described that last meeting as a "heart to heart", it was well beyond that stage. 

Also I thought it would have been plainly obvious to everyone by now that is isn't just one situation or incident that made Jalen want to leave but EVERYTHING i.e market, losing, contract, front office , Tom. It wasn't just a snap judgement after mean words from Tom.

Rap wasn't describing it that way in his own words though.  He had quotations around the term in his tweet.  I'm assuming someone close to the matter described it that way to him if not Shad himself.  It very well could have been tongue in cheek regardless of who relayed it to him.  Anyway, I'm off my soapbox.  Speculate away.

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I hope not.  He has no real football knowledge.  And I’m not nearly as sure Tom or Dave or Doug are gone at the end of the year like many believe/hope.  This management team seems headed in the right direction.  And from an objective point of view, the Ramsey situation was on no one but Ramsey. And that’s regardless of all the people who are in their feelings about the mean old man chewing out the brash young man. I think Sexton is right on this one. This was the plan of Jaylen and his agent from the get go.

If the rest of this season plays out reasonably well I see the current administration staying in place. If it becomes a dumpster fire then all bets are off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agreed, Jalen has had a foot out the door for years now. He just needed an excuse to finally be 'gone.' We will see if we actually miss him tho.

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We're being way too hard on TC in this thread. How soon we forget that we made it to the AFCC the same year he came on board.

Also, he had a sit-down with Fournette early this offseason, and has anyone else noticed that Fournette has been a golden child for the most part since?

I will give credit to Fornette, his turnaround has been impressive this season. His vision is still below average, but he has definitely improved on that front. With his physical talent, even with average vision he can be quite good.

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Yes, it's improvement, but it's Blaine Gabbert 2012 level improvement. - Pirkster

http://youtu.be/ouGM3NWpjxk The Home Hypnotist!

http://youtu.be/XQRFkn0Ly3A Media on the Brain Link!
 

Peyton must store oxygen in that forehead of his. No way I'd still be alive after all that choking.

 

I don't like how Coughlin and Caldwell have drafted/signed O-Linemen, so as far as I'm concerned, they can both go. They don't know how to scout the most important position on a football team, outside of QB.

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I don't like how Coughlin and Caldwell have drafted/signed O-Linemen, so as far as I'm concerned, they can both go. They don't know how to scout the most important position on a football team, outside of QB.

I don't know if you watch much football outside of the Jags, but OL play is down, and has been down league wide for a good while now..

The way the College game is being played now is completely destroying the development of OL guys at the NFL level. It's not just a problem here, but it's league wide man.

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I don't like how Coughlin and Caldwell have drafted/signed O-Linemen, so as far as I'm concerned, they can both go. They don't know how to scout the most important position on a football team, outside of QB.

I don't know if you watch much football outside of the Jags, but OL play is down, and has been down league wide for a good while now..

The way the College game is being played now is completely destroying the development of OL guys at the NFL level. It's not just a problem here, but it's league wide man.

It's true.  The number of sure-fire stud o-line guys in the first three rounds of the draft has dive-bombed over the past 8 or so years. 

Not as easy to nail down, though I'm not trying to excuse all of the poor decisions of our F.O. 
I'm a known D.C. defender, but QB and OL moves are solid gripes against him.

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I don't know if you watch much football outside of the Jags, but OL play is down, and has been down league wide for a good while now..

The way the College game is being played now is completely destroying the development of OL guys at the NFL level. It's not just a problem here, but it's league wide man.

It's true.  The number of sure-fire stud o-line guys in the first three rounds of the draft has dive-bombed over the past 8 or so years. 

Not as easy to nail down, though I'm not trying to excuse all of the poor decisions of our F.O. 
I'm a known D.C. defender, but QB and OL moves are solid gripes against him.

Oh I agree. I like Caldwell a lot more than most around here, but I'm not defending him here completely, or anybody else in the F.O. with some of their QB, OL moves.

I was just saying to him in general, OL play and development is at a all time low right now at the NFL level. It's no where close to black and white like in years past.

I do give Caldwell a tiny bit of a pass for the Joeckel pick though. Yes it looks terrible now in hindsight, but he was going to be a top 1-3 draft pick that year regardless. Every "expert" and everybody else was all but calling him a sure fire safe pick. He was basically considered the top prospect in the draft throughout the entire season.

I wanted Ziggy Ansah that year honestly, but I understood the Joeckel pick. You're basically picking between two of the premier positions in the league (not including QB obviously, which we all know is #1), but Ansah was very, very raw coming out of college. He had only 2 years of any football experience ever, going into the draft that year, or something like that.

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I don't like how Coughlin and Caldwell have drafted/signed O-Linemen, so as far as I'm concerned, they can both go. They don't know how to scout the most important position on a football team, outside of QB.

I don't know if you watch much football outside of the Jags, but OL play is down, and has been down league wide for a good while now..

The way the College game is being played now is completely destroying the development of OL guys at the NFL level. It's not just a problem here, but it's league wide man.

I agree. That is why you have to be extra vigilant about scouting the guys at those premium O-Line positions. We just simply drafted Robinson and Taylor in round 2, because they were supposed to be the next guys off the board, according to the so-called "experts." Nevermind that other teams saw what I did, that Robinson lacked the footwork and athleticism to play LT and that Taylor was a poor run blocker with sub-par balance who gets knocked backwards too much. That is why they fell to round 2. The really good players get drafted in round 1. Then you have the front office giving out a huge contract to an OG, who had one year of really good production in a different type of scheme and so far, he has failed miserably with us. I know OT's as a whole aren't coming into the league fully prepared for the NFL system, but you gotta recognize certain red flags and so far, Caldwell and Coughlin are totally ignoring them.

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They also let go one of the best offensive line coaches we've had in Jacksonville and hired a guy who's had very poor results of late.

Obv some personality issues with Pat Flaherty but his 2017 was all you needed to see

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