I don't know if you watch much football outside of the Jags, but OL play is down, and has been down league wide for a good while now..

The way the College game is being played now is completely destroying the development of OL guys at the NFL level. It's not just a problem here, but it's league wide man.

I agree. That is why you have to be extra vigilant about scouting the guys at those premium O-Line positions. We just simply drafted Robinson and Taylor in round 2, because they were supposed to be the next guys off the board, according to the so-called "experts." Nevermind that other teams saw what I did, that Robinson lacked the footwork and athleticism to play LT and that Taylor was a poor run blocker with sub-par balance who gets knocked backwards too much. That is why they fell to round 2. The really good players get drafted in round 1. Then you have the front office giving out a huge contract to an OG, who had one year of really good production in a different type of scheme and so far, he has failed miserably with us. I know OT's as a whole aren't coming into the league fully prepared for the NFL system, but you gotta recognize certain red flags and so far, Caldwell and Coughlin are totally ignoring them.

Wow, you're all over the place picking any scenario you can to express your distaste for the FO. Too bad you have naught but speculation and confirmation bias in your opinions.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Tony khan doesn’t know a lick about football, he has proven nothing. He’s only relevant because of his father. Situations like those almost always end horribly, let’s not subject ourselves to that please.

This applies to international football (soccer) as well.  He took over as Vice Chairman and Director of Football (Soccer) Operations at Fulham FC and they've been horrible since his hire (many bad transactions).

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I don't know if you watch much football outside of the Jags, but OL play is down, and has been down league wide for a good while now..

The way the College game is being played now is completely destroying the development of OL guys at the NFL level. It's not just a problem here, but it's league wide man.

I agree. That is why you have to be extra vigilant about scouting the guys at those premium O-Line positions. We just simply drafted Robinson and Taylor in round 2, because they were supposed to be the next guys off the board, according to the so-called "experts." Nevermind that other teams saw what I did, that Robinson lacked the footwork and athleticism to play LT and that Taylor was a poor run blocker with sub-par balance who gets knocked backwards too much. That is why they fell to round 2. The really good players get drafted in round 1. Then you have the front office giving out a huge contract to an OG, who had one year of really good production in a different type of scheme and so far, he has failed miserably with us. I know OT's as a whole aren't coming into the league fully prepared for the NFL system, but you gotta recognize certain red flags and so far, Caldwell and Coughlin are totally ignoring them.

Another "interesting" assumption.  

Sure seems to me like this f.o. is actually drafting specific traits and measurables in their o-linemen much more so than taking the next guy on an analyst's big board as you suggest.

It hasn't always worked unfortunately, but to assume they are just taking what's left in the second because they don't want to spend a first is a massive leap.

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You guys seem to be basing your opinions on us keeping the totally [BLEEP] up front office structure we currently have.   I would completely chuck the current front office structure, completely changing the role or EVP of football ops.   (As I explained earlier.)   The GM should pick the players.   The head coach should coach the players.   The EVP of Football Ops should observe and report to the owner.  The EVP should stay out of player selection and coaching.

The EVP should assist the owner in his role as owner of the team.  That's it.  STAY OUT OF PLAYER SELECTION!  THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE A GM FOR!

As we have seen numerous times, an NFL team is only as good as its owner.  The problem is, owners can't spend full time on the job.  That's why an EVP that is an assistant to the owner, eyes and ears of the owner, on hand all the time to meet the needs of the GM and the HC, would greatly increase the bandwidth of the owner.  It has to be someone the owner trusts completely.  Who is that?  The answer is obvious.  Tony Khan.  Give him the title and the authority, and tell him to stay out of player selection and coaching unless they need something.  It's perfect.

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You're taking some liberties with portraying Shad's last attempt with Jalen.  Jalen was the best talent on the roster and one of the best talents in the league and he wanted out.  Of course the owner is going to have the last word.  It doesn't automatically mean he found fault in Coughlin or his handling to that point.  If you've read something or have something that I haven't seen, by all means share it. But as you've written it above, it's just more speculation on something no one but Shad, Coughlin and Jalen know.  And Jalen's not one to hold back.  He had no problem calling out almost every QB in the league a couple of years ago which is kinda unprecedented outside of pro wrestling, boxing and MMA. Has he said specifically what made him want out? "Disrespected" is pretty vague coming from him.  It seems intentionally so.

Coughlin got a warning for stating players should be at voluntary workouts.  It was wrong to say and should have either not been said or stated more tactfully.  If Jalen's reason for wanting out is based in part or in whole on that statement, he's even more emotionally fragile than he's letting on though.

I'm not taking liberties at all, I think you're just underplaying Shads shrewdness in this whole situation. Early on in the ordeal Shad and Tony were on the charm offensive with Jalen but at the end Shad was pretty simply calling his bluff and showing everyone what a fraud he was. I laughed when Rap described that last meeting as a "heart to heart", it was well beyond that stage. 

Also I thought it would have been plainly obvious to everyone by now that is isn't just one situation or incident that made Jalen want to leave but EVERYTHING i.e market, losing, contract, front office , Tom. It wasn't just a snap judgement after mean words from Tom.

Where are you getting the above, btw?  Sorry, the timing of the below article forced me back in here.

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/...51425?s=21

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I agree. That is why you have to be extra vigilant about scouting the guys at those premium O-Line positions. We just simply drafted Robinson and Taylor in round 2, because they were supposed to be the next guys off the board, according to the so-called "experts." Nevermind that other teams saw what I did, that Robinson lacked the footwork and athleticism to play LT and that Taylor was a poor run blocker with sub-par balance who gets knocked backwards too much. That is why they fell to round 2. The really good players get drafted in round 1. Then you have the front office giving out a huge contract to an OG, who had one year of really good production in a different type of scheme and so far, he has failed miserably with us. I know OT's as a whole aren't coming into the league fully prepared for the NFL system, but you gotta recognize certain red flags and so far, Caldwell and Coughlin are totally ignoring them.

Another "interesting" assumption.  

Sure seems to me like this f.o. is actually drafting specific traits and measurables in their o-linemen much more so than taking the next guy on an analyst's big board as you suggest.

It hasn't always worked unfortunately, but to assume they are just taking what's left in the second because they don't want to spend a first is a massive leap.

Maybe they are. If that is the case, they must be looking for guys with poor footwork and balance.

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The truth is coming out on the fake injury. I dont see how any actual Jags fans still have any love for that dude is just beyond me. He literally took a dump on his teammates which is far worse than quiting on the fans or city. I can't wait til we actually get to hear what Tom actually said to "disrespect" him. I can't even think of anything short of a racial slur or talking about his family that would legitimize his reaction/behavior.

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I'm not taking liberties at all, I think you're just underplaying Shads shrewdness in this whole situation. Early on in the ordeal Shad and Tony were on the charm offensive with Jalen but at the end Shad was pretty simply calling his bluff and showing everyone what a fraud he was. I laughed when Rap described that last meeting as a "heart to heart", it was well beyond that stage. 

Also I thought it would have been plainly obvious to everyone by now that is isn't just one situation or incident that made Jalen want to leave but EVERYTHING i.e market, losing, contract, front office , Tom. It wasn't just a snap judgement after mean words from Tom.

Where are you getting the above, btw?  Sorry, the timing of the below article forced me back in here.

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/...51425?s=21

....that fits in with what I said? They knew he was faking at that point. Shad told him he expects him to play given the back is fine and put the ball in Jalens court + announced it to national media.

Jalen doesn't play proving to the team and fans that he's faking and not playing no matter what.

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Its funny to me that one or 2 people on this board thought his back injury was legit to the point where he couldnt play lol. Everyone knew he was full of bs except the few poeple on the board

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I have criticism of Shad in terms of football hires but I think he played this entire episode to near perfection.

Got in on the story early and went on the charm offensive with him and Tony. Went loud in the media and said they expect to keep, took over trade talks and set price of two firsts and didn't back down regardless of how it looked PR wise.

Then once they have confirmation the back is cleared, Shad flies to meet 1 on 1 and tells him he expects to play Vs Saints , putting the ball in Jalens court to either play OR announce to the team, fans and front office he's not playing no matter what and that the back was fake. Then they trade him as soon as possible for a great deal.

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Where are you getting the above, btw?  Sorry, the timing of the below article forced me back in here.

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/...51425?s=21

....that fits in with what I said? They knew he was faking at that point. Shad told him he expects him to play given the back is fine and put the ball in Jalens court + announced it to national media.

Jalen doesn't play proving to the team and fans that he's faking and not playing no matter what.

Sorry, but saying someone was merely trying to expose someone as a fraud doesn’t jive with the reported attempt to salvage the situation even in the 11th hour.  If you’re truly trying to salvage something, embarrassing the other party shouldn’t be one of your goals when you sit down at the table. Those two mindsets are mutually exclusive.

Also, the reported “heart to heart” appears to have been what Khan left their meeting thinking they’d had, regardless of Jalen’s true plan.  “He thought the Pro Bowl cornerback would play against New Orleans” after their meeting and it was the last straw for him when he didn’t.  That doesn’t align at all with Khan knew all along how this would play out and only meant to expose Ramsey as a fraud that last week.

And back to my Jalen played Shad remark that you disagreed with.  Jalen apparently left Shad with the impression that he was going to play last week.  Maybe you’re working with a different definition of “played” than I am, but when one person sets an expectation for someone that he has no intention of fulfilling, that’s playing someone.  It’s short for played you for a fool.  It doesn’t mean Shad was a fool here, but Jalen absolutely played him for one.

Why do I let myself get suckered into this crap?

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....that fits in with what I said? They knew he was faking at that point. Shad told him he expects him to play given the back is fine and put the ball in Jalens court + announced it to national media.

Jalen doesn't play proving to the team and fans that he's faking and not playing no matter what.

Sorry, but saying someone was merely trying to expose someone as a fraud doesn’t jive with the reported attempt to salvage the situation even in the 11th hour.  If you’re truly trying to salvage something, embarrassing the other party shouldn’t be one of your goals when you sit down at the table. Those two mindsets are mutually exclusive.

Also, the reported “heart to heart” appears to have been what Khan left their meeting thinking they’d had, regardless of Jalen’s true plan.  “He thought the Pro Bowl cornerback would play against New Orleans” after their meeting and it was the last straw for him when he didn’t.  That doesn’t align at all with Khan knew all along how this would play out and only meant to expose Ramsey as a fraud that last week.

And back to my Jalen played Shad remark that you disagreed with.  Jalen apparently left Shad with the impression that he was going to play last week.  Maybe you’re working with a different definition of “played” than I am, but when one person sets an expectation for someone that he has no intention of fulfilling, that’s playing someone.  It’s short for played you for a fool.  It doesn’t mean Shad was a fool here, but Jalen absolutely played him for one.

Why do I let myself get suckered into this crap?

You suckered yourself into believing that the quitter was a better negotiator than The Billionaire.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Sorry, but saying someone was merely trying to expose someone as a fraud doesn’t jive with the reported attempt to salvage the situation even in the 11th hour.  If you’re truly trying to salvage something, embarrassing the other party shouldn’t be one of your goals when you sit down at the table. Those two mindsets are mutually exclusive.

Also, the reported “heart to heart” appears to have been what Khan left their meeting thinking they’d had, regardless of Jalen’s true plan.  “He thought the Pro Bowl cornerback would play against New Orleans” after their meeting and it was the last straw for him when he didn’t.  That doesn’t align at all with Khan knew all along how this would play out and only meant to expose Ramsey as a fraud that last week.

And back to my Jalen played Shad remark that you disagreed with.  Jalen apparently left Shad with the impression that he was going to play last week.  Maybe you’re working with a different definition of “played” than I am, but when one person sets an expectation for someone that he has no intention of fulfilling, that’s playing someone.  It’s short for played you for a fool.  It doesn’t mean Shad was a fool here, but Jalen absolutely played him for one.

Why do I let myself get suckered into this crap?

You suckered yourself into believing that the quitter was a better negotiator than The Billionaire.

Where are you reading that from my words? My whole point here is to quit touting truths whose legs are made of pure speculation.


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You guys seem to be basing your opinions on us keeping the totally [BLEEP] up front office structure we currently have.   I would completely chuck the current front office structure, completely changing the role or EVP of football ops.   (As I explained earlier.)   The GM should pick the players.   The head coach should coach the players.   The EVP of Football Ops should observe and report to the owner.  The EVP should stay out of player selection and coaching.

The EVP should assist the owner in his role as owner of the team.  That's it.  STAY OUT OF PLAYER SELECTION!  THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE A GM FOR!

As we have seen numerous times, an NFL team is only as good as its owner.  The problem is, owners can't spend full time on the job.  That's why an EVP that is an assistant to the owner, eyes and ears of the owner, on hand all the time to meet the needs of the GM and the HC, would greatly increase the bandwidth of the owner.  It has to be someone the owner trusts completely.  Who is that?  The answer is obvious.  Tony Khan.  Give him the title and the authority, and tell him to stay out of player selection and coaching unless they need something.  It's perfect.

I think you have your own opinion of what an EVP does/should do rather than what they actually do. 

The GM does indeed pick the players, but his choices may be altered by the EVP. This is not an unusual arrangement.

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We're being way too hard on TC in this thread. How soon we forget that we made it to the AFCC the same year he came on board.

Also, he had a sit-down with Fournette early this offseason, and has anyone else noticed that Fournette has been a golden child for the most part since?

The same year he took a RB over two of the best young QBs in football*

that we weren't drafting but keep swinging at the horse's corpse**

back on topic, Tony should remain preoccupied enough with AEW that he wouldn't need to come back to football.

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Good read for the Anti-Coughlin 

https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/colu...QKBK59g7w/

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Good read for the Anti-Coughlin 

https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/colu...QKBK59g7w/

Its cool.  I'm over the Jalen situation and knew it was caused by the FO already.  Shad backing them only means that he plans on keeping them regardless of the environment they set.  When this FO is gone, i'll be happy.  #becauseJaguars is telling me they will be here to use the picks they got in the trade and keep us in mediocrity.

I remember someone saying he isn't Aaron Rodgers so i didnt expect a situation where the higher up was let go instead of the star player. It is what it is and fans seem happy.

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Season Tix, Section 409

2023 and still counting.....SB will finally be ours soon enough.
TLaw aka 'the prince that was promised' supporter.

Good read for the Anti-Coughlin 

https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/colu...QKBK59g7w/

As soon as he wrote that Ramsey’s injury was legit, you knew a crap opinion piece was to follow. That was worthy of reddit or a message board, not of anything under the SI banner.

It was a steaming pile of .


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Fix the O-Line!

Good read for the Anti-Coughlin 

https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/colu...QKBK59g7w/

As soon as he wrote that Ramsey’s injury was legit, you knew a crap opinion piece was to follow.  That was worthy of reddit or a message board, not of anything under the SI banner.

It was a steaming pile of .


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Did you read about the Interview with Ramsey on what went down?  Thats one side of the story but its all we have at this point.  Good point in that article was that Coughlin talks tough one minute and then now is hiding under a rock with the details.

Oh and Jalen admitted he faked the injury to force us to let him go.

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Season Tix, Section 409

2023 and still counting.....SB will finally be ours soon enough.
TLaw aka 'the prince that was promised' supporter.

As soon as he wrote that Ramsey’s injury was legit, you knew a crap opinion piece was to follow.  That was worthy of reddit or a message board, not of anything under the SI banner.

It was a steaming pile of .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Did you read about the Interview with Ramsey on what went down?  Thats one side of the story but its all we have at this point.  Good point in that article was that Coughlin talks tough one minute and then now is hiding under a rock with the details.

Oh and Jalen admitted he faked the injury to force us to let him go.

Yes, I read the rest. I don’t think Tom is hiding like folks are saying on the board. Why should he give a post mortem on the situation? It just lowers him to Ramsey’s level. The kid has proven himself a liar and a cheat. Why should we believe his self serving spin on what happened?


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Fix the O-Line!