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Javon Kinlaw

#1

One guy that has been rising up my draft board very rapidly is South Carolina DT Javon Kinlaw. He is 6'6" 310 lbs. and has been an excellent player on a not so-good team. He is quick off the line of scrimmage and has been wreaking havoc in the backfield. He is an excellent run stuffer and a consistent pass rusher as well. So far on the season he has 23 tackles, 5 TFL, 5 Sacks, 2 FR and a blocked kick. I still have Auburn DT Derrick Brown as my #1 DT, but Kinlaw is right there at my #2 spot.
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#2

https://youtu.be/X7OqVTexMIk
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#3

Personally, I think we have the speed at the edge so I'd prefer (with regard to filling out the DT position) we go with run pluggers like Haloti Ngata (6'4" - 331 pounds) and Casey Hampton (6'1" - 325 pounds).
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#4

(11-04-2019, 03:12 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: Personally, I think we have the speed at the edge so I'd prefer (with regard to filling out the DT position) we go with run pluggers like Haloti Ngata (6'4" - 331 pounds) and Casey Hampton (6'1" - 325 pounds).

Regardless of size, I want a guy who can stop the run and put inside pressure on opposing QB's. Outside of Derrick Brown of Auburn (who will be a top 5-7 pick) and Kinlaw, I don't see another DT in this draft who can do that.
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#5

Unless Dareus gives the Jags a discount, Kinlaw should be the 1st pick in the draft. Today's despicable run "defense" needs to be corrected next season.
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#6

(11-17-2019, 04:49 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: Unless Dareus gives the Jags a discount, Kinlaw should be the 1st pick in the draft. Today's despicable run "defense" needs to be corrected next season.

Kinlaw is more like a bigger Malik Jackson. We need a bigger bodied guy like Derrick Brown to anchor the interior, Kinlaw projects more as a 3 tech
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#7

(11-17-2019, 05:16 PM)JackCity Wrote:
(11-17-2019, 04:49 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: Unless Dareus gives the Jags a discount, Kinlaw should be the 1st pick in the draft. Today's despicable run "defense" needs to be corrected next season.

Kinlaw is more like a bigger Malik Jackson. We need a bigger bodied guy like Derrick Brown to anchor the interior, Kinlaw projects more as a 3 tech

Kinlaw is 6'6" 310 lbs. and a very good run stuffer. I don't conform to the idea a NT has to be a "wide body". Jay Ratliff was a good NT and he was like 6'4" 290 lbs., besides, Kinlaw is long and could easily add weight to his frame. Just have him follow around Smoot all offseason and I'm sure he can put on 20-25 lbs. As far as Derrick Brown, I'd LOVE to draft him, but will he fall to us? I believe he'll be gone and Kinlaw is the only other DT I really like in this draft. After those two, the DT prospects fall way off. Another way to go could be the free agent route. I really like Jordan Phillips of Buffalo. He's only 27 and at 6'6" and 340 lbs., he's a load. He plays the run very well and can get after the QB too. Either way we go, in order to fix the run defense, we have to address LB as well. I'd love to move Jack to the WLB position and draft a MLB with better instincts, but that probably won't happen. Instead, I believe we address the WLB spot. If that is the case, Isaiah Simmons would be nice. He's rangy, and being a former Safety, he has excellent coverage ability, athleticism and is a good tackler.
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#8

We certainly need an anchor inside that eats up space. Last two games without Dareus have been brutal.

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#9

(11-17-2019, 07:12 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(11-17-2019, 05:16 PM)JackCity Wrote: Kinlaw is more like a bigger Malik Jackson. We need a bigger bodied guy like Derrick Brown to anchor the interior, Kinlaw projects more as a 3 tech

Kinlaw is 6'6" 310 lbs. and a very good run stuffer. I don't conform to the idea a NT has to be a "wide body". Jay Ratliff was a good NT and he was like 6'4" 290 lbs., besides, Kinlaw is long and could easily add weight to his frame. Just have him follow around Smoot all offseason and I'm sure he can put on 20-25 lbs. As far as Derrick Brown, I'd LOVE to draft him, but will he fall to us? I believe he'll be gone and Kinlaw is the only other DT I really like in this draft. After those two, the DT prospects fall way off. Another way to go could be the free agent route. I really like Jordan Phillips of Buffalo. He's only 27 and at 6'6" and 340 lbs., he's a load. He plays the run very well and can get after the QB too. Either way we go, in order to fix the run defense, we have to address LB as well. I'd love to move Jack to the WLB position and draft a MLB with better instincts, but that probably won't happen. Instead, I believe we address the WLB spot. If that is the case, Isaiah Simmons would be nice. He's rangy, and being a former Safety, he has excellent coverage ability, athleticism and is a good tackler.

Hence why I said a bigger Malik Jackson. Being a good stuffer in college is not = to being a good run stopping 1 tech in the NFL. 

Kinlaw is freakishly athletic and long but he suffers from lots of leverage issues and isn't good at preventing double teams in the run game, which is what we need badly. His best role in the NFL is one gapping and getting up field like Chris Jones/Malik Jackson Vs eating up blocks and 1 v 1 opportunities for others. He's a very good player, just not quite the DT I'd take.
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#10

(11-17-2019, 08:57 PM)JackCity Wrote:
(11-17-2019, 07:12 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Kinlaw is 6'6" 310 lbs. and a very good run stuffer. I don't conform to the idea a NT has to be a "wide body". Jay Ratliff was a good NT and he was like 6'4" 290 lbs., besides, Kinlaw is long and could easily add weight to his frame. Just have him follow around Smoot all offseason and I'm sure he can put on 20-25 lbs. As far as Derrick Brown, I'd LOVE to draft him, but will he fall to us? I believe he'll be gone and Kinlaw is the only other DT I really like in this draft. After those two, the DT prospects fall way off. Another way to go could be the free agent route. I really like Jordan Phillips of Buffalo. He's only 27 and at 6'6" and 340 lbs., he's a load. He plays the run very well and can get after the QB too. Either way we go, in order to fix the run defense, we have to address LB as well. I'd love to move Jack to the WLB position and draft a MLB with better instincts, but that probably won't happen. Instead, I believe we address the WLB spot. If that is the case, Isaiah Simmons would be nice. He's rangy, and being a former Safety, he has excellent coverage ability, athleticism and is a good tackler.

Hence why I said a bigger Malik Jackson. Being a good stuffer in college is not = to being a good run stopping 1 tech in the NFL. 

Kinlaw is freakishly athletic and long but he suffers from lots of leverage issues and isn't good at preventing double teams in the run game, which is what we need badly. His best role in the NFL is one gapping and getting up field like Chris Jones/Malik Jackson Vs eating up blocks and 1 v 1 opportunities for others. He's a very good player, just not quite the DT I'd take.

As I said, there is a huge dropoff at DT after Brown and Kinlaw. In fact, I don't know if I'd even waste a draft pick on a NT past round 1 (the guys I mentioned.) The quality just isn't there. Maybe Phillips might be our best option in free agency.
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#11

(11-18-2019, 12:07 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(11-17-2019, 08:57 PM)JackCity Wrote: Hence why I said a bigger Malik Jackson. Being a good stuffer in college is not = to being a good run stopping 1 tech in the NFL. 

Kinlaw is freakishly athletic and long but he suffers from lots of leverage issues and isn't good at preventing double teams in the run game, which is what we need badly. His best role in the NFL is one gapping and getting up field like Chris Jones/Malik Jackson Vs eating up blocks and 1 v 1 opportunities for others. He's a very good player, just not quite the DT I'd take.

As I said, there is a huge dropoff at DT after Brown and Kinlaw. In fact, I don't know if I'd even waste a draft pick on a NT past round 1 (the guys I mentioned.) The quality just isn't there. Maybe Phillips might be our best option in free agency.

Some pretty good nose options later in the draft like Fotu and Jordan Scott
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#12

(11-18-2019, 02:35 AM)JackCity Wrote:
(11-18-2019, 12:07 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: As I said, there is a huge dropoff at DT after Brown and Kinlaw. In fact, I don't know if I'd even waste a draft pick on a NT past round 1 (the guys I mentioned.) The quality just isn't there. Maybe Phillips might be our best option in free agency.

Some pretty good nose options later in the draft like Fotu and Jordan Scott

Both guys are way too one-dimensional for my taste. They are useless as pass rushers. All they do is take up space in the middle. I'd rather have a NT who can at least collapse the pocket every once in a while. I don't think either guy offers anything more than what we have with Dontavius Russell.
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#13

(11-17-2019, 07:12 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(11-17-2019, 05:16 PM)JackCity Wrote: Kinlaw is more like a bigger Malik Jackson. We need a bigger bodied guy like Derrick Brown to anchor the interior, Kinlaw projects more as a 3 tech

Kinlaw is 6'6" 310 lbs. and a very good run stuffer. I don't conform to the idea a NT has to be a "wide body". Jay Ratliff was a good NT and he was like 6'4" 290 lbs., besides, Kinlaw is long and could easily add weight to his frame. 

We see things differently as well.  I like a plugger that will stuff the line and take on the immediate impact and leave the backfield penetration to our DEs (and LB/Safeties on blitz schemes).  I watched way too much of the AFC North in the early 2000's and love the style of play of Casey Hampton and Hiloti Ngata, neither of which had and excessive amount of sacks or tackles for loss.  They just made the DEs and LBs/Safeties better since they could tee off against the QBs, knowing the middle was plugged.  Give me someone in the middle that is low to the ground.
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#14

(11-18-2019, 08:06 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(11-18-2019, 02:35 AM)JackCity Wrote: Some pretty good nose options later in the draft like Fotu and Jordan Scott

Both guys are way too one-dimensional for my taste. They are useless as pass rushers. All they do is take up space in the middle. I'd rather have a NT who can at least collapse the pocket every once in a while. I don't think either guy offers anything more than what we have with Dontavius Russell.

I'd rather have an elite 1 tech who we can get outside the first round than an elite 3 tech in the first who won't help our run defense as much and will cost significantly more assets.
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#15

(11-04-2019, 03:18 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(11-04-2019, 03:12 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: Personally, I think we have the speed at the edge so I'd prefer (with regard to filling out the DT position) we go with run pluggers like Haloti Ngata (6'4" - 331 pounds) and Casey Hampton (6'1" - 325 pounds).

Regardless of size, I want a guy who can stop the run and put inside pressure on opposing QB's. Outside of Derrick Brown of Auburn (who will be a top 5-7 pick) and Kinlaw, I don't see another DT in this draft who can do that.

We may be in position to get Brown after what we just witnessed Sunday.
Currently we sit at 13th according to fanspeak. (11th according to tankathon)... We may not win another game, or maybe just one.
If we finish with 5 wins... we'll be picking top ten.

I could see us picking top 5
Cincy, Washington, NYJ, Miami, JaX/NYG/Tampa/ATL/Detroit/Chicago
I think ATL, LAC, Cleveland and Denver finish with 5 or 6 wins at least.
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#16
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2019, 07:12 PM by TheO-LineMatters.)

(11-18-2019, 11:06 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote:
(11-17-2019, 07:12 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Kinlaw is 6'6" 310 lbs. and a very good run stuffer. I don't conform to the idea a NT has to be a "wide body". Jay Ratliff was a good NT and he was like 6'4" 290 lbs., besides, Kinlaw is long and could easily add weight to his frame. 

We see things differently as well.  I like a plugger that will stuff the line and take on the immediate impact and leave the backfield penetration to our DEs (and LB/Safeties on blitz schemes).  I watched way too much of the AFC North in the early 2000's and love the style of play of Casey Hampton and Hiloti Ngata, neither of which had and excessive amount of sacks or tackles for loss.  They just made the DEs and LBs/Safeties better since they could tee off against the QBs, knowing the middle was plugged.  Give me someone in the middle that is low to the ground.

Ngata consistently collapsed the pocket. He had 32.5 sacks over the course of his career. As far as Hampton, he was in a 3-4 scheme his entire career, it's a whole different animal than what we'd be asking a NT to do. I'm not talking about getting a NT who can get double digit sacks, but 3-5 per season shouldn't be out of the question. I just want someone who shows the ability to do more than just stuff the run. I want him to be more of a complete DT. If we have a one dimensional run stuffer on the field and the opponent drops back to pass, we get no penetration. I really liked the fact that when we first got Dareus, he could stuff the run, but he also created pressure in the middle. Instead of getting another Abry Jones type DT who strictly is in to stop the run (not very well either), I'd rather have a younger version of Dareus, who was multi-faceted. If we ran a 3-4 defense, a wide bodied run plugger only, would be fine, but in a 4-3 scheme, you need something more.

(11-18-2019, 04:06 PM)Kane Wrote:
(11-04-2019, 03:18 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Regardless of size, I want a guy who can stop the run and put inside pressure on opposing QB's. Outside of Derrick Brown of Auburn (who will be a top 5-7 pick) and Kinlaw, I don't see another DT in this draft who can do that.

We may be in position to get Brown after what we just witnessed Sunday.
Currently we sit at 13th according to fanspeak. (11th according to tankathon)... We may not win another game, or maybe just one.
If we finish with 5 wins... we'll be picking top ten.

I could see us picking top 5
Cincy, Washington, NYJ, Miami, JaX/NYG/Tampa/ATL/Detroit/Chicago
I think ATL, LAC, Cleveland and Denver finish with 5 or 6 wins at least.

If we were able to get Brown, I'd be ecstatic. He's exactly the type of NT I want. I'd probably even try to trade up a couple spots to get him, as long as we didn't have to use multiple first rounders.
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#17
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2019, 08:48 PM by HURRICANE!!!.)

Dude, you're comparing a former Undrafted Free Agent Abry Jones to a former 1st Round #3 Overall Pick Marcel Dareus.  

YES, I THINK WE'D ALL WANT A TOP DRAFT PICK DAREUS OVER A SUCKY UNDRAFTED ABRY JONES  ...... lol

For the record Ngata only had 2.5 sacks per season and 5 tackles for loss per season.  He was more known for plugging which allowed Ray Lewis to get a clean hit on the stalled RB.  Before drafting Ngata, Lewis complained about not having someone in the gap to take away the momentum of the opposing RBs.  In any event, we definitely need someone but I prefer to draft someone in round 3-4 to do the job.
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#18
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2019, 01:01 AM by TheO-LineMatters.)

(11-18-2019, 08:46 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: Dude, you're comparing a former Undrafted Free Agent Abry Jones to a former 1st Round #3 Overall Pick Marcel Dareus.  

YES, I THINK WE'D ALL WANT A TOP DRAFT PICK DAREUS OVER A SUCKY UNDRAFTED ABRY JONES  ...... lol

For the record Ngata only had 2.5 sacks per season and 5 tackles for loss per season.  He was more known for plugging which allowed Ray Lewis to get a clean hit on the stalled RB.  Before drafting Ngata, Lewis complained about not having someone in the gap to take away the momentum of the opposing RBs.  In any event, we definitely need someone but I prefer to draft someone in round 3-4 to do the job.

No, I was comparing his one dimensional play to Dareus, who was multi faceted.
There were 3 consecutive years, 2010, 2011 and 2012 where Ngata had 5+ sacks per year. He definitely was able to collapse the pocket as well. Again, NT's in 3-4 schemes are asked to do much different things than what we run in a 4-3. In a 4-3 scheme, your NT's have to be more multi dimensional. Now, if you are advocating switching to a 3-4 defense and drafting that classic run plugging NT, I can probably get behind that. As far as drafting a NT in the 3rd or 4th round, you can't just simply say we'll draft one there. You have to have guys in mind that you think can be successful in that roll and hope they fall to that spot. Who would you be targeting in rounds 3-4, because this is not a deep DT class at all?
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