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Can Minshew's problems be fixed?

#1

Teams know how to play against him now. The Texans are the first team to see him twice.  So we know he has problems staying inside the pocket - he's more comfortable when he can improvise. I don't want to take away that improvision at all--that's what makes him special. But for him, the next step is to learn how to be comfortable and play in the pocket.  Is that doable?
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#2

(11-04-2019, 11:46 AM)JagFanFirst Wrote: Teams know how to play against him now. The Texans are the first team to see him twice.  So we know he has problems staying inside the pocket - he's more comfortable when he can improvise. I don't want to take away that improvision at all--that's what makes him special. But for him, the next step is to learn how to be comfortable and play in the pocket.  Is that doable?

Actually that is completely backwards. Minshew is a classic pocket QB who is being forced into running by inadequate protection. That he's doing it fairly well speaks to his ability because it was not something he did in college at all.
"It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office." - H. L. Mencken

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#3

(11-04-2019, 11:48 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote:
(11-04-2019, 11:46 AM)JagFanFirst Wrote: Teams know how to play against him now. The Texans are the first team to see him twice.  So we know he has problems staying inside the pocket - he's more comfortable when he can improvise. I don't want to take away that improvision at all--that's what makes him special. But for him, the next step is to learn how to be comfortable and play in the pocket.  Is that doable?

Actually that is completely backwards. Minshew is a classic pocket QB who is being forced into running by inadequate protection. That he's doing it fairly well speaks to his ability because it was not something he did in college at all.

Okay. Is it fixable on Mishew's part?
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#4

(11-04-2019, 11:46 AM)JagFanFirst Wrote: Teams know how to play against him now. The Texans are the first team to see him twice.  So we know he has problems staying inside the pocket - he's more comfortable when he can improvise. I don't want to take away that improvision at all--that's what makes him special. But for him, the next step is to learn how to be comfortable and play in the pocket.  Is that doable?

That was actually his calling card as a prospect and showed it Vs Chiefs and Titans, parts of other games too. 

My take on what's happened is he's been dealing with a bottom 5 pass blocking line and has been forced to improvise and adapt to tons of pressure from the two tackle spots and interior. At Washington state he rarely had to deal with this. 

Pair this "happy feet" style to WRs not getting open as much anymore and add in regular rookie jitters and you have a performance like yesterday. Oh and add in what I think was a poor offensive game plan.
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#5

(11-04-2019, 11:52 AM)JackCity Wrote:
(11-04-2019, 11:46 AM)JagFanFirst Wrote: Teams know how to play against him now. The Texans are the first team to see him twice.  So we know he has problems staying inside the pocket - he's more comfortable when he can improvise. I don't want to take away that improvision at all--that's what makes him special. But for him, the next step is to learn how to be comfortable and play in the pocket.  Is that doable?

That was actually his calling card as a prospect and showed it Vs Chiefs and Titans, parts of other games too. 

My take on what's happened is he's been dealing with a bottom 5 pass blocking line and has been forced to improvise and adapt to tons of pressure from the two tackle spots and interior. At Washington state he rarely had to deal with this. 

Pair this "happy feet" style to WRs not getting open as much anymore and add in regular rookie jitters and you have a performance like yesterday. Oh and add in what I think was a poor offensive game plan.
So what you're suggesting is an upgrade at OL.  I also wonder if the lack of a servicable TE is also hurting him. Losing O' Shaughenessy (sp) hurt, IMO. He was like a safety valve for Gardner.
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#6

I will say I did not enjoy the pathetic play calling.
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#7
(This post was last modified: 11-04-2019, 12:01 PM by dennisp3.)

Experience a better offense of line and learning to dump it off when no one is open down field.

(11-04-2019, 12:00 PM)Browntrouser Wrote: I will say I did not enjoy the pathetic play calling.
That’s another problem.
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#8

(11-04-2019, 11:48 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote:
(11-04-2019, 11:46 AM)JagFanFirst Wrote: Teams know how to play against him now. The Texans are the first team to see him twice.  So we know he has problems staying inside the pocket - he's more comfortable when he can improvise. I don't want to take away that improvision at all--that's what makes him special. But for him, the next step is to learn how to be comfortable and play in the pocket.  Is that doable?

Actually that is completely backwards. Minshew is a classic pocket QB who is being forced into running by inadequate protection. That he's doing it fairly well speaks to his ability because it was not something he did in college at all.

Hmm.... saw a stat before I turned off the TV that Minshew was kept clean. No hits no hurries. (This was prior to the 4th Q)\

The pass pro isn't perfect by any means. But the kid HAS to learn how to take a damn check down. Far too often Fournette is in the flat or the TE is open on a shallow crosser and he is looking downfield trying to hit the big one to Conley and Chark. When he hits those, we love that play, but sometimes you just gotta take the 3 yards.

He's a rookie. He can learn and get better. But to put it all on the OL is kinda silly.
Most OLs don't/can't protect for 5+ seconds. When our WRs don't get separation and aren't open, he's gotta get rid of it sometimes.

I love the guy, think he can really develop (but probably with a different coaching staff as ours just gets out coached and out schemed far too often)
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#9

Fixed?

He’s fine. His issue is trying to do too much because no one else is willing/able to step up.
"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."
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#10

The only problem that dude has, which is lack of experience at this level is only fixable by getting more. Really simple. Otherwise, he has in his short time playing already shown most of all the attributes you would look for in a franchise QB.
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#11

(11-04-2019, 12:03 PM)knarnn Wrote: Fixed?

He’s fine. His issue is trying to do too much because no one else is willing/able to step up.

Or he's just trying to do too much when there's an easy outlet open.

You know how easy it is for LF to take a 3 yard dump off in the flat and turn up field and truck a DB or LB
Yet he often doesn't get the chance because the rook is looking downfield for the big one that ain't there.

There's plenty of blame to go around but I think it starts with coaching.
Minshews ONLY issue is trying to do too much, imo. Arm strength is good enough, football IQ is good, ability to create is there. Leadership, check. All that.
He's only a rookie. I think he's got a bright future. 
He needs better coaching.

And yes, our OL play hasn't been great in spots but the tinhorns DL/LBers weren't really doing much yesterday for most of the game.
We got 4 picks in the first 3 rounds. I suspect two OL, a LB, and a DB to be the picks, in some order or another.
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#12

(11-04-2019, 11:57 AM)JagFanFirst Wrote:
(11-04-2019, 11:52 AM)JackCity Wrote: That was actually his calling card as a prospect and showed it Vs Chiefs and Titans, parts of other games too. 

My take on what's happened is he's been dealing with a bottom 5 pass blocking line and has been forced to improvise and adapt to tons of pressure from the two tackle spots and interior. At Washington state he rarely had to deal with this. 

Pair this "happy feet" style to WRs not getting open as much anymore and add in regular rookie jitters and you have a performance like yesterday. Oh and add in what I think was a poor offensive game plan.
So what you're suggesting is an upgrade at OL.  I also wonder if the lack of a servicable TE is also hurting him. Losing O' Shaughenessy (sp) hurt, IMO. He was like a safety valve for Gardner.


Yep lack of TE hurts too.   

To be honest it's a relatively poor situation for a rookie QB to be in, and Minshew done about as well as you could reasonably ask. Still a long way to go before im ready to call him any kind of future though
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#13

My thoughts on Minshew's issues from another thread earlier:


*I wouldn't try to totally break him of moving laterally out of the pocket because he's good at it, but he needs to be able to operate without doing that more consistently. I'd drill him on stepping up rather than out more, but the o-line plays a hand in this too. He's got to have a pocket to step into.

*His diligence to make reads on most of his snaps is great for a rookie, but it needs to be a beat or two quicker. Holding the ball over 3 seconds as often as he does is going to create protection issues for even very good o -linemen at times. A few too many forced into coverage as well - which just won't work with his velocity.

*There's still a marked difference between "poised 15" and "rattled 15" when it comes to his footwork. That'll have to level out.

*Might need some help seeing throwing lanes in the middle of the field. Height is a factor, but likely the playbook designed for Foles also is playing a hand in this issue too. Either way, needs improvement.

None of this stuff seems insurmountable to me.

I hope to see him again as a starter for the Jags with some of this stuff cleaned up.
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#14

(11-04-2019, 12:08 PM)Kane Wrote:
(11-04-2019, 12:03 PM)knarnn Wrote: Fixed?

He’s fine. His issue is trying to do too much because no one else is willing/able to step up.

Or he's just trying to do too much when there's an easy outlet open.

You know how easy it is for LF to take a 3 yard dump off in the flat and turn up field and truck a DB or LB
Yet he often doesn't get the chance because the rook is looking downfield for the big one that ain't there.

There's plenty of blame to go around but I think it starts with coaching.
Minshews ONLY issue is trying to do too much, imo. Arm strength is good enough, football IQ is good, ability to create is there. Leadership, check. All that.
He's only a rookie. I think he's got a bright future. 
He needs better coaching.

And yes, our OL play hasn't been great in spots but the tinhorns DL/LBers weren't really doing much yesterday for most of the game.
We got 4 picks in the first 3 rounds. I suspect two OL, a LB, and a DB to be the picks, in some order or another.

He was actually checking down too often yesterday imo
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#15

(11-04-2019, 12:13 PM)JackCity Wrote:
(11-04-2019, 12:08 PM)Kane Wrote: Or he's just trying to do too much when there's an easy outlet open.

You know how easy it is for LF to take a 3 yard dump off in the flat and turn up field and truck a DB or LB
Yet he often doesn't get the chance because the rook is looking downfield for the big one that ain't there.

There's plenty of blame to go around but I think it starts with coaching.
Minshews ONLY issue is trying to do too much, imo. Arm strength is good enough, football IQ is good, ability to create is there. Leadership, check. All that.
He's only a rookie. I think he's got a bright future. 
He needs better coaching.

And yes, our OL play hasn't been great in spots but the tinhorns DL/LBers weren't really doing much yesterday for most of the game.
We got 4 picks in the first 3 rounds. I suspect two OL, a LB, and a DB to be the picks, in some order or another.

He was actually checking down too often yesterday imo

Yeah. I got that impression too. 

Pressure had him a bit rattled and reluctant to keep an eye downfield. I have a feeling the all 22 will show a number of open guys downfield that weren't seen by the QB as he was either evading pressure or overly anticipating pressure.

Of course there have also been instances where he holds the ball too long looking downfield and even the checkdown is then gone from viability - as well as the other poster eluded.
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#16

Bah... we have inexperience across the board. It isn't like you only have to fix the QB.
___________

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#17

Minshew is good. He had an off day. He just needs to play more, he is a rookie inThe NFL, he will get better. Our FO, coaches. They bad playcalling makes him try to do more than he has to do. We can already tell he is good qb that we can win with. Hope they don't mess up his confidence
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#18
(This post was last modified: 11-04-2019, 12:45 PM by The Real Marty.)

(11-04-2019, 12:00 PM)Browntrouser Wrote: I will say I did not enjoy the pathetic play calling.

This type of comment always mystifies me.  How would you even know what play was called?  You can tell it was a pass play or a running play, but beyond that, you can't see the routes the receivers are running at all on TV.  And on a running play, how would you know the blocking assignments?

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#19

(11-04-2019, 12:44 PM)TyThe Real Marty Wrote:
(11-04-2019, 12:00 PM)Browntrouser Wrote: I will say I did not enjoy the pathetic play calling.

This type of comment always mystifies me.  How would you even know what play was called?  You can tell it was a pass play or a running play, but beyond that, you can't see the routes the receivers are running at all on TV.  And on a running play, how would you know the blocking assignments?
No misdirection place, no screens, no flea flicker or any creative playcalling that’s his point. Basically run up the middle throw it out in the flat very generic playcalling. If you watch the ravens against the patriots three plays out of the pistol very successful all night creative playcalling. We look like we’re Play in a preseason game.
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#20

(11-04-2019, 01:08 PM)dennisp3 Wrote:
(11-04-2019, 12:44 PM)TyThe Real Marty Wrote: This type of comment always mystifies me.  How would you even know what play was called?  You can tell it was a pass play or a running play, but beyond that, you can't see the routes the receivers are running at all on TV.  And on a running play, how would you know the blocking assignments?
No misdirection place, no screens, no flea flicker or any creative playcalling that’s his point. Basically run up the middle throw it out in the flat very generic playcalling. If you watch the ravens against the patriots three plays out of the pistol very successful all night creative playcalling. We look like we’re Play in a preseason game.

They ran several screens yesterday.
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