When Caldwell came in and broke this roster back down to expansion level he stacked the deck against himself from the start. Fast forward to today and we are consistently attempting to fill holes that come up faster then we can draft or sign guys. Then factor in the natural misses and it’s never going to work. You can’t hit on every free agent and every draft pick and blowing up a roster leaves you no choice but to hope for perfection.

Caldwell’s arrogance damned this rebuild from the start. Hopefully our next GM keeps some of the serviceable pieces we have in place and builds a roster around any talent we do have.

In the end Caldwell is worse then Shack and Gene, this far removed from a rebuild and we might have one of the worse rosters in franchise history.

So the three worse rosters that this where three roster assembled by Caldwell and that’s evidence someone else was worse?

You asked for worse rosters than this one. And gene was gm till 13. A bunch were his players. 

I can’t name a gene player that amounted to anything. Can you?

Brian Anger, ironically.

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Season Ticket holder since 2004.

 

        

Yeah, even though I believe Daryl Smith was pretty overrated in his first few seasons, he did become an excellent LB and Caldwell let him go, the Ravens took advantage of that.

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Yeah, even though I believe Daryl Smith was pretty overrated in his first few seasons, he did become an excellent LB and Caldwell let him go, the Ravens took advantage of that.

Lawan and Landry where also serviceable safeties and we spent years looking for their replacements. Monroe was better then Joeckel ever was we could’ve used that pick somewhere else. In the end I’m not even sure Bortles was any better than Gabbert. But no one wants to admit the last 6 years we’ve made no progress and where now worse off then ever.

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Yeah, even though I believe Daryl Smith was pretty overrated in his first few seasons, he did become an excellent LB and Caldwell let him go, the Ravens took advantage of that.

Lawan and Landry where also serviceable safeties and we spent years looking for their replacements. Monroe was better then Joeckel ever was we could’ve used that pick somewhere else. In the end I’m not even sure Bortles was any better than Gabbert. But no one wants to admit the last 6 years we’ve made no progress and where now worse off then ever.

Oh yeah, they treated Monroe like he was garbage, Joeckel was worse.

I am pretty sure Gabbert is better than Bortles, JDR destroyed any hope Gabbert had, in his rookie year he had total scrubs at WR.

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When Caldwell came in and broke this roster back down to expansion level he stacked the deck against himself from the start. Fast forward to today and we are consistently attempting to fill holes that come up faster then we can draft or sign guys. Then factor in the natural misses and it’s never going to work. You can’t hit on every free agent and every draft pick and blowing up a roster leaves you no choice but to hope for perfection.

Caldwell’s arrogance damned this rebuild from the start. Hopefully our next GM keeps some of the serviceable pieces we have in place and builds a roster around any talent we do have.

In the end Caldwell is worse then Shack and Gene, this far removed from a rebuild and we might have one of the worse rosters in franchise history.

weong its not the roster at all. the team has talent lots of it. its all the head coach. if Jags had a real winning head coach i gurantee you they would be in play off race every season with this roster. its all  doug marons fault all the loseing is his fault. 

He destroyed jags just like he did the bills. I told you all he would.

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snowwolf titans owner in madden.

note titans owner means im undeafted againest them. 

When Caldwell came in and broke this roster back down to expansion level he stacked the deck against himself from the start. Fast forward to today and we are consistently attempting to fill holes that come up faster then we can draft or sign guys. Then factor in the natural misses and it’s never going to work. You can’t hit on every free agent and every draft pick and blowing up a roster leaves you no choice but to hope for perfection.

Caldwell’s arrogance damned this rebuild from the start. Hopefully our next GM keeps some of the serviceable pieces we have in place and builds a roster around any talent we do have.

In the end Caldwell is worse then Shack and Gene, this far removed from a rebuild and we might have one of the worse rosters in franchise history.

I sort of agree with some of what you say there.  The best teams never tank or blow up their roster, they just try to get better each and every year.

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Completely agree. The full tear-it-down model is arrogant because you're putting too much faith in your ability to always find good replacements. This FO has been very bad at hedging it's bets.

The new FO should build around the core of this team: Minshew, Fournette, Chark, Taylor, Yan, Allen. After that, pile resources into the trenches, it all starts there.

It's tough to be positive at all right now, but I do think this team is not actually too far away from being competitive. A tear-it-down rebuild would be a slap in the face for all fans.

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Completely agree. The full tear-it-down model is arrogant because you're putting too much faith in your ability to always find good replacements. This FO has been very bad at hedging it's bets.

The new FO should build around the core of this team: Minshew, Fournette, Chark, Taylor, Yan, Allen. After that, pile resources into the trenches, it all starts there.

It's tough to be positive at all right now, but I do think this team is not actually too far away from being competitive. A tear-it-down rebuild would be a slap in the face for all fans.

There wont be a tear down, this team is substantially more talented than the one Eric thinks he remembers,

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

What we are seeing now has almost zero to do with that roster purge.

It's all been recycled since then.  There are virtually zero remnants.

The purge hurt in the short term. We're seeing more coaching/scheming issues than f.o. issues right now.

I’m not being a jerk. I am honestly asking..What do you think of Deflip after the last 3 weeks?

I refer to our playbook as the "Flippin' play calls"

This....this is what the playbook was intended to look like with Foles under center? Woof.

As to the OP, the purge is not the cause of our current woes. Look back to how many players we spent large contracts on, and how many of them actually see the end of those deals. How many seasons do we eat dead money hits over 8 figures? That's overpaying for guys who either aren't as good as we thought, not a good fit in whatever we believe our roster/identity we are purportedly building towards, or guys that did not want to be here once the ink dried.

So, in addition to needing to draft positions of need that weren't filled in FA, we know also have to fills positions we previously attempted to bandaid in free agency. We've had a few hits (Campbell, Bouye), but the glaring misses (Norwell, Bortles, Moncrief) cripple your ability to use draft to its fullest. We are constantly chasing our tails trying to keep ahead of the roster holes.

Dave has done well in the draft, especially considering the futility of his predecessor. But, when you have vacuums at practically every position on the roster, you cannot afford to miss when you swing for a home run FA signing.

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The idea was sound but they missed on things you can't miss on. They drafted Bortles and then doubled down on him with an extension. This team has so much more talent than those previous teams but they don't have a QB and they have a terrible head coach.

I mean look at what they should have:

Allen, Yan, Campbell, Dareus, Bouye, Harrison, Jack (in his rightful spot at WLB) and Ramsey.

ARob, Fournette, Chark, Westbrook.

However they don't have a coach who actually gets the most out of the roster and they don't have a QB at all. This FO has botched QB and HC which are the two things you can't miss on. Whoever comes in next year will actually be set up pretty well.

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When Caldwell came in and broke this roster back down to expansion level he stacked the deck against himself from the start. Fast forward to today and we are consistently attempting to fill holes that come up faster then we can draft or sign guys. Then factor in the natural misses and it’s never going to work. You can’t hit on every free agent and every draft pick and blowing up a roster leaves you no choice but to hope for perfection.

Caldwell’s arrogance damned this rebuild from the start. Hopefully our next GM keeps some of the serviceable pieces we have in place and builds a roster around any talent we do have.

In the end Caldwell is worse then Shack and Gene, this far removed from a rebuild and we might have one of the worse rosters in franchise history.

This is what Caldwell inherited.  2012 Starting Roster


QB         Blaine Gabbert
WR        Mike Thomas
WR        Cecil Shorts
TE         Marcedes Lewis
LT         Eugene Monroe
C           Brad Meester
RG         Uche Nwaneri
RT          Cameron Bradfield
             
DE         Jeremy Mincey
DT         Tyson Alualu
DT         C.J. Mosley
MLB      Paul Posluszny
LB          Russell Allen
LCB        Aaron Ross
RCB       Derek Cox
SS          Dawan Landry
FS          Dwight Lowery
             
K            Josh Scobee
P            Bryan Anger

The only real move that I questioned was trading Monroe for a 6th round pick.  Otherwise, he got rid of the players that sucked and a few overpaid non-productive players that sucked on their subsequent teams.  He kept the few decent players like Poz and Mercedes Lewis.

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When Caldwell came in and broke this roster back down to expansion level he stacked the deck against himself from the start. Fast forward to today and we are consistently attempting to fill holes that come up faster then we can draft or sign guys. Then factor in the natural misses and it’s never going to work. You can’t hit on every free agent and every draft pick and blowing up a roster leaves you no choice but to hope for perfection.

Caldwell’s arrogance damned this rebuild from the start. Hopefully our next GM keeps some of the serviceable pieces we have in place and builds a roster around any talent we do have.

In the end Caldwell is worse then Shack and Gene, this far removed from a rebuild and we might have one of the worse rosters in franchise history.

This is what Caldwell inherited.  2012 Starting Roster


QB         Blaine Gabbert
WR        Mike Thomas
WR        Cecil Shorts
TE         Marcedes Lewis
LT         Eugene Monroe
C           Brad Meester
RG         Uche Nwaneri
RT          Cameron Bradfield
             
DE         Jeremy Mincey
DT         Tyson Alualu
DT         C.J. Mosley
MLB      Paul Posluszny
LB          Russell Allen
LCB        Aaron Ross
RCB       Derek Cox
SS          Dawan Landry
FS          Dwight Lowery
             
K            Josh Scobee
P            Bryan Anger

The only real move that I questioned was trading Monroe for a 6th round pick.  Otherwise, he got rid of the players that sucked and a few overpaid non-productive players that sucked on their subsequent teams.  He kept the few decent players like Poz and Mercedes Lewis.

I was fine with the purge and I still am. 

He should have kept Daryl Smith.  That was it.  

Monroe was borderline but ended up doing little with the Ravens before falling off a cliff. 
Dave assumed Smith was aging out but he still had 3 good years in him.  Monroe had maybe one decent year. 

So in my mind he cut one player too many. 

Now, could he have kept 3 or 4 other vets to mentor some of the young replacements? Absolutely. That would have been wise. I don't see it having squat to do with where we are now though. We've re-generated the roster since then.

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Idk, yes Caldwell has missed on a lot of 1st round picks, but I think coaching is holding this team back from where they really could be. There's a decent amount of individual talent on this roster, I'm not confident they're being put into situations to succeed.

Off the top of my head, high level players:

Chark
Fournette (he's been very good this year)
Minshew
Yan
Allen
Campbell (even if older)
Bouye
Harrison
Jack (talented, but seems misused)

Each of those players could/would start on most other teams. We've been outcoached/schemed for two years now. Even look at the past three weeks, these were all one score games going into halftime and the wheels fell off in the 3rd quarter.

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Despite the losses, there's a lot of young talent on the roster - including at positions where it's hard to find that talent - pass rushers and quarterbacks. Minshew, Yan and Allen are the future. Build around them.

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What we are seeing now has almost zero to do with that roster purge.

It's all been recycled since then.  There are virtually zero remnants.

The purge hurt in the short term. We're seeing more coaching/scheming issues than f.o. issues right now.

Spot on.  The purge was so long ago that most of the guys impacted are out of the league.  

It’s been more of the normal roster churn that has hurt the team this time around. We didn’t replace the losses with better talent, which was mostly economics.  We ate Bortles’ dead money hit this year, which was smart because it accelerated getting that boneheaded extension off the books.   So next year and the year after we will have money to make moves, and extra picks to do it more affordably.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

What we are seeing now has almost zero to do with that roster purge.

It's all been recycled since then.  There are virtually zero remnants.

The purge hurt in the short term. We're seeing more coaching/scheming issues than f.o. issues right now.

Spot on.  The purge was so long ago that most of the guys impacted are out of the league.  

It’s been more of the normal roster churn that has hurt the team this time around. We didn’t replace the losses with better talent, which was mostly economics.  We ate Bortles’ dead money hit this year, which was smart because it accelerated getting that boneheaded extension off the books.   So next year and the year after we will have money to make moves, and extra picks to do it more affordably.

We recycled Caldwell, Marrone and Wash though. We also recycled Coughlin. Until those roles are addressed I could give two [BLEEP] with the amount of money and extra picks they have at their disposal because they simply CANNOT be trusted to get it done.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

People have short term memories if they think Caldwell has done worse than Gene Smith. Caldwell's not done well especially with first round picks, but let's not pretend he's worse than he is. This team has talent. What it needs is better coaching, and to be modernized in this pass-heavy offense league.

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People have short term memories if they think Caldwell has done worse than Gene Smith.  Caldwell's not done well especially with first round picks, but let's not pretend he's worse than he is.  This team has talent.  What it needs is better coaching, and to be modernized in this pass-heavy offense league.

Gene Smith was trash on two feet. Anyone with eyes can see that. However, with that said, as much as we all would like to credit Caldwell for picking up the groceries he did a [BLEEP] box job on hiring the appropriate cook to put it altogether. Gus Bradley was a disaster. Far worse than anything we had seen under Jack Del Rio / Mel Tucker / Mike Mularkey. 

Most General Managers would have their [BLEEP] handed to them for hiring a head coach that netted their franchise a 14 - 48 record during a 4 year stretch. As far as Marrone? I am not sure if Caldwell is fully to blame for his keeping here or if that was Coughlin but that was another misfire. The more and more you look at 2017 the more and more it appears to be a fluke, a mirage. Because it was. 

Marrone is not that much better. He's a Mike Tice at best on his good days. Regardless of talent this or talent that. You're what your record says you are. Period. Caldwell has to take the brunt for some of this. And the poor handling of some contracts or lack thereof need to be taken into serious consideration as well. 

I am ready for Caldwell and Coughlin to be gone. Again, I absolutely DO NOT TRUST this current front office with four first round picks to [BLEEP] up with over the next two years. It's truly terrifying. And if a change isn't made with the right people this team could very well waste all of those picks and turn out like the Cleveland Browns did with all of that capital.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."