This fan base can not handle anymore tanking. We need to field a competitive team next year. I will take 8-8. Tanking for a decade got us no where.

because we never got a QB. Not being competitive as we possibly can be next year might be the best way to finally solve the QB spot with Fields or Lawrence in the draft. If Minshew balls out, great, we probably win games and have a franchise qb, if not, we likely lose games and should attempt to lose as much as possible.

This is a very reasonable assessment .

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I went Blank #2 because I don't know. You can make an argument for keeping Coughlin. You can make an argument for keeping Caldwell. You can make an argument for keeping both, or firing both. About the only argument you can't make is keeping Marrone.

On the players side, I think a major overhaul is needed. We have no OL. We have no TE. We have no LBs. We lack DTs. We have one CB and one S. On the plus side, we have a K and a P, and we probably have a QB and good WRs. I would lean towards blowing it all to hell.

Just curious how can you argue keeping Coughlin and Caldwell but then realize this roster is full of holes after years of building?  Their main job is to Acquire enough talent to be competitive and they have failed.  There have been too many draft picks and too much money spent for our roster to look like this.

For the record, I voted New FO, New Staff, and retool roster.  I am not denying Caldwell/Cough acquired some staff but their average is horrible.  Given enough shots you are bound to hit a couple.   If you add up all the draft capital this team has had over the last few years combined with the high draft picks the results are just horrendous.

Yeah, but this is like 90 percent Caldwell and 10 percent Coughlin.

Straight up, if we're re-doing everything, we've seen some of the actions Khan has taken on his own like Mularkey, etc... some ugly stuff... he needs a football guy in place... not some relative working on analytics to make these calls. The Jaguars made the AFCC the first year back with Coughlin heading things up so I'm all for letting him make these tough calls and seeing if he can put together a SB-winning team. He took the Giants to the SB twice as HC and took the Jaguars to the AFCC now three times.

I think most fans just blame him for Ramsey and want his head, but that's too shallow an outlook. Would you really have some analytics guy who can't even win in soccer make these oh-so-critical calls? At least Coughlin is a football guy who we know cares about this franchise. Give him a chance to blow it up himself.

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'02

Just curious how can you argue keeping Coughlin and Caldwell but then realize this roster is full of holes after years of building?  Their main job is to Acquire enough talent to be competitive and they have failed.  There have been too many draft picks and too much money spent for our roster to look like this.

For the record, I voted New FO, New Staff, and retool roster.  I am not denying Caldwell/Cough acquired some staff but their average is horrible.  Given enough shots you are bound to hit a couple.   If you add up all the draft capital this team has had over the last few years combined with the high draft picks the results are just horrendous.

Yeah, but this is like 90 percent Caldwell and 10 percent Coughlin.

Straight up, if we're re-doing everything, we've seen some of the actions Khan has taken on his own like Mularkey, etc... some ugly stuff... he needs a football guy in place... not some relative working on analytics to make these calls. The Jaguars made the AFCC the first year back with Coughlin heading things up so I'm all for letting him make these tough calls and seeing if he can put together a SB-winning team. He took the Giants to the SB twice as HC and took the Jaguars to the AFCC now three times.

I think most fans just blame him for Ramsey and want his head, but that's too shallow an outlook. Would you really have some analytics guy who can't even win in soccer make these oh-so-critical calls? At least Coughlin is a football guy who we know cares about this franchise. Give him a chance to blow it up himself.

So... what you're really saying is... you're old and think Coughlin is the bees knees.

He's not.

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Would anyone be down for us hiring a new GM, and letting Tom coach again?

Like Tom Coughlin got us into this mess, he has a year to prove he can get us out of it. But, not in the press box but on the sidelines.

Call me crazy, but I would be kind of down for Tom to coach a year

Nah. Two things...

1. He's just too old now. We'd be risking some type of medical incident on the field during a game.
2. His older generation and old-school manners are tough on these new, more sensitive, young players. You don't need to hand out sprinkles like Gus Bradley, but I feel like a player's HC is best. I like Rivera from the Panthers personally.

I kind of like the role that TC is in where he doesn't have to be so hands-on at his age but can take a broader, overall perspective to make owner-level decisions. I feel like even where he does get some blame for say insisting on Fournette, when you look at the team right now it sees the RB is one of the only guys truly playing. Heck, he led the AFC for much of the season and is still doing better than expected this year. Perhaps if TC had even more say he could have better perfected his overall vision for the team, but he was dealing with a staff that never really was his own so he took a bit of a back seat.

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'02

Looking at a retool vs. rebuild (and I didn't want to start a new thread). Are we REALLY in dire straits when it comes to Foles' contract next year?
If we cut Foles he's an almost 34 mil cap hit. We cut Marcel Dareus, Marquis Lee, Jake Ryan, and Geoff Swaim and those 4 guys save us 35 million right there....and three of them gave us NOTHING this year. Granted, Marcel was a HUGE part of the run defense, but he's gonna 30 years old before the season starts. If we can snag a Derrick Brown or Javon Kinlaw to slot in the middle, it might just get us out from underneath the albatross that is Nick.....

Working on the "Over the Cap" website, doing the math on that still shows us with 16 million in cap room for 2020. I'm pretty sure its not taking any rollover money into account. The biggest name we have to extend is Yan (Pay him). The new regime will have 4 1st rounders, a young nucleus of talent (Chark, Fournette, Harrison, Allen, Bryan, Smoot, Taylor if he can stop holding....", and not be hamstrung by a 20+ million QB that no one wants.

Thoughts?

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“Motivation alone is not enough.  If you have an idiot and you motivate him,now you have a motivated idiot.” Jim Rohn

 

Looking at a retool vs. rebuild (and I didn't want to start a new thread).  Are we REALLY in dire straits when it comes to Foles' contract next year?
If we cut Foles he's an almost 34 mil cap hit.  We cut Marcel Dareus, Marquis Lee, Jake Ryan, and Geoff Swaim and those 4 guys save us 35 million right there....and three of them gave us NOTHING this year. Granted, Marcel was a HUGE part of the run defense, but he's gonna  30 years old before the season starts. If we can snag a Derrick Brown  or Javon Kinlaw to slot in the middle, it might just get us out from underneath the albatross that is Nick.....

Working on the "Over the Cap" website, doing the math on that still shows us with 16 million in cap room for 2020.  I'm pretty sure its not taking any rollover money into account.  The biggest name we have to extend is Yan (Pay him).  The new regime will have 4 1st rounders, a young nucleus of talent (Chark, Fournette, Harrison, Allen, Bryan, Smoot, Taylor if he can stop holding....", and not be hamstrung by a 20+ million QB that no one wants.

Thoughts?

We have plenty of easy cuts to clear space and a cap that's going up by ~8 million. 

Cap won't be much of an issue unless they try to add a premier free agent.

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Just curious how can you argue keeping Coughlin and Caldwell but then realize this roster is full of holes after years of building?  Their main job is to Acquire enough talent to be competitive and they have failed.  There have been too many draft picks and too much money spent for our roster to look like this.

For the record, I voted New FO, New Staff, and retool roster.  I am not denying Caldwell/Cough acquired some staff but their average is horrible.  Given enough shots you are bound to hit a couple.   If you add up all the draft capital this team has had over the last few years combined with the high draft picks the results are just horrendous.

Yeah, but this is like 90 percent Caldwell and 10 percent Coughlin.

Straight up, if we're re-doing everything, we've seen some of the actions Khan has taken on his own like Mularkey, etc... some ugly stuff... he needs a football guy in place... not some relative working on analytics to make these calls. The Jaguars made the AFCC the first year back with Coughlin heading things up so I'm all for letting him make these tough calls and seeing if he can put together a SB-winning team. He took the Giants to the SB twice as HC and took the Jaguars to the AFCC now three times.

I think most fans just blame him for Ramsey and want his head, but that's too shallow an outlook. Would you really have some analytics guy who can't even win in soccer make these oh-so-critical calls? At least Coughlin is a football guy who we know cares about this franchise. Give him a chance to blow it up himself.

This is so backwards. The hoops you Coughlin fans have to try jump through to try remove his responsibility from this mess is insane. He was given FULL control over the franchise and it hasn't worked

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I voted blank #2 because the options presented didn't quite fit.

Tom must go. There is a rift between him and everyone else below him, and until that is fixed, we will have little success bringing in GM, coaches, or players that do not want to be micromanaged.

If Tom were to personally replace the Jags brass underneath him, suddenly all those rifts are gone. Part of the "rift" is that Khan had a GM and HC, etc, in place already and then brought TC in. That rarely sits well. It might be different with TC in charge of his own guys.

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'02

I voted blank #2 because the options presented didn't quite fit.

Tom must go. There is a rift between him and everyone else below him, and until that is fixed, we will have little success bringing in GM, coaches, or players that do not want to be micromanaged.

If Tom were to personally replace the Jags brass underneath him, suddenly all those rifts are gone. Part of the "rift" is that Khan had a GM and HC, etc, in place already and then brought TC in. That rarely sits well. It might be different with TC in charge of his own guys.

No thanks. Tom has to go. I understand the legacy here. And he'll always be loved and remembered for it no matter what has happened now in his current role or down the line. 

But the fact that he took this job knowing those circumstances and this has been the result of the last two, three years? No thanks. And maybe I missed something but wasn't Coughlin here in 2017 when the decision was made to retain Doug Marrone as the head coach? Shouldn't he have been able to stop that move or veto it?

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

If Tom were to personally replace the Jags brass underneath him, suddenly all those rifts are gone. Part of the "rift" is that Khan had a GM and HC, etc, in place already and then brought TC in. That rarely sits well. It might be different with TC in charge of his own guys.

No thanks. Tom has to go. I understand the legacy here. And he'll always be loved and remembered for it no matter what has happened now in his current role or down the line. 

But the fact that he took this job knowing those circumstances and this has been the result of the last two, three years? No thanks. And maybe I missed something but wasn't Coughlin here in 2017 when the decision was made to retain Doug Marrone as the head coach? Shouldn't he have been able to stop that move or veto it?

Indeed, he agreed with Caldwell on keeping Marrone when he first got here. That said, Marrone really hasn't been the problem until now with the team seemingly falling apart. Previously, my only real issue with Marrone was for some of his game decisions (primarily time management) in the last few minutes of a half.

Where things really got ugly was with Foles coming back where I feel the medical staff let us down. Simply put, Foles needed more rehab, and somebody should have known this.

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'02

Rebuilding/Retooling the roster without having your franchise QB is meaningless. Yes we want guys in place for the QB to succeed, but if you just try and build around the QB we are going to get 2017 again. A one and done thing. The only way to maintain success in the league is having a QB. Again, it’s the ONLY way!

If Minshew isnt the guy, go get Burrow. We are looking at probably another top 5 pick, it won’t take the farm. Do whatever to get the QB situation fixed, and if there is no guy available then tank for Trevor Lawrence.

The staff... the rest of the roster.. is worthless without a QB.

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you forgot the most imporent choice of all. a mircle is needed to fix the jags!!!

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snowwolf titans owner in madden.

note titans owner means im undeafted againest them. 

Rebuilding/Retooling the roster without having your franchise QB is meaningless. Yes we want guys in place for the QB to succeed, but if you just try and build around the QB we are going to get 2017 again. A one and done thing. The only way to maintain success in the league is having a QB. Again, it’s the ONLY way!

If Minshew isnt the guy, go get Burrow. We are looking at probably another top 5 pick, it won’t take the farm. Do whatever to get the QB situation fixed, and if there is no guy available then tank for Trevor Lawrence.

The staff... the rest of the roster.. is worthless without a QB.

What if Minshew IS the guy?


BTW, Troy Aikman is saying he'd like a shot at being a HC.

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you forgot the most imporent choice of all.     a mircle is needed to fix the jags!!!

Throughout his tenure in the NFL, Tom Coughlin has been one of the best at obtaining miracles for his teams.

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'02

Rebuilding/Retooling the roster without having your franchise QB is meaningless. Yes we want guys in place for the QB to succeed, but if you just try and build around the QB we are going to get 2017 again. A one and done thing. The only way to maintain success in the league is having a QB. Again, it’s the ONLY way!

If Minshew isnt the guy, go get Burrow. We are looking at probably another top 5 pick, it won’t take the farm. Do whatever to get the QB situation fixed, and if there is no guy available then tank for Trevor Lawrence.

The staff... the rest of the roster.. is worthless without a QB.

Go get Burrow

as if it is that easy.

Minshew could be the guy, we just need to actually put a team out there.
OL is trash, gotta start there with 2-3 draft picks on the OL and 1 or 2 DL guys added via draft and/or FA.
Also, need at least one CB.

This ain't all getting done in this off season. Burrow isn't an option and mortgaging all of our premier picks this year and next to go get him would be silly with no OL to protect him.

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Coughlin fans: Tom got them to the AFC championship game!

Also Coughlin fans: he had nothing to do with the mess the last few years! he's only 10% to blame!

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No thanks. Tom has to go. I understand the legacy here. And he'll always be loved and remembered for it no matter what has happened now in his current role or down the line. 

But the fact that he took this job knowing those circumstances and this has been the result of the last two, three years? No thanks. And maybe I missed something but wasn't Coughlin here in 2017 when the decision was made to retain Doug Marrone as the head coach? Shouldn't he have been able to stop that move or veto it?

Indeed, he agreed with Caldwell on keeping Marrone when he first got here. That said, Marrone really hasn't been the problem until now with the team seemingly falling apart. Previously, my only real issue with Marrone was for some of his game decisions (primarily time management) in the last few minutes of a half.

Where things really got ugly was with Foles coming back where I feel the medical staff let us down. Simply put, Foles needed more rehab, and somebody should have known this.

Agreed.  A lot of blame to go around for this year's failures. I really thought we would be past all of these types of seasons after what we had to stomach under Gus Bradley. Truly astounding how bad this year has been.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

I voted blank #2 because the options presented didn't quite fit.

Tom must go. There is a rift between him and everyone else below him, and until that is fixed, we will have little success bringing in GM, coaches, or players that do not want to be micromanaged.

If Tom were to personally replace the Jags brass underneath him, suddenly all those rifts are gone. Part of the "rift" is that Khan had a GM and HC, etc, in place already and then brought TC in. That rarely sits well. It might be different with TC in charge of his own guys.

This isn’t entirely accurate. You may want to re-visit this.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/09/06/jackso...-shad-khan

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

Me vs the FO including Coughlin and Maroney


Oh blank #2, because someone hates corn

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Just curious how can you argue keeping Coughlin and Caldwell but then realize this roster is full of holes after years of building?  Their main job is to Acquire enough talent to be competitive and they have failed.  There have been too many draft picks and too much money spent for our roster to look like this.

For the record, I voted New FO, New Staff, and retool roster.  I am not denying Caldwell/Cough acquired some staff but their average is horrible.  Given enough shots you are bound to hit a couple.   If you add up all the draft capital this team has had over the last few years combined with the high draft picks the results are just horrendous.

Yeah, but this is like 90 percent Caldwell and 10 percent Coughlin.

Straight up, if we're re-doing everything, we've seen some of the actions Khan has taken on his own like Mularkey, etc... some ugly stuff... he needs a football guy in place... not some relative working on analytics to make these calls. The Jaguars made the AFCC the first year back with Coughlin heading things up so I'm all for letting him make these tough calls and seeing if he can put together a SB-winning team. He took the Giants to the SB twice as HC and took the Jaguars to the AFCC now three times.

I think most fans just blame him for Ramsey and want his head, but that's too shallow an outlook. Would you really have some analytics guy who can't even win in soccer make these oh-so-critical calls? At least Coughlin is a football guy who we know cares about this franchise. Give him a chance to blow it up himself.

But he's been here for 3 years already.  Don't you think he bears some responsibility for this year's debacle?  

I'd give him a chance to blow it up, as you suggest, if he blows himself up with it.

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No thanks. Tom has to go. I understand the legacy here. And he'll always be loved and remembered for it no matter what has happened now in his current role or down the line. 

But the fact that he took this job knowing those circumstances and this has been the result of the last two, three years? No thanks. And maybe I missed something but wasn't Coughlin here in 2017 when the decision was made to retain Doug Marrone as the head coach? Shouldn't he have been able to stop that move or veto it?

Indeed, he agreed with Caldwell on keeping Marrone when he first got here.

IIRC, we never really found out what Caldwell thought about keeping Marrone. It sounded to me at the time like that was entirely Coughlin’s call.

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