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Sign Stealing in Baseball

#1

The Astros were stealing signs before and during the world series they won, using a camera in center field. 

What I am wondering is, it's so easy to do this, and so easy to prevent, why don't teams prevent this sign-stealing by encoding their signs?   Create a code where one sign affects another sign.  Now a "1" doesn't mean fastball; it means curveball, or whatever.  It's so easy to do this.  You can make one sign mean a switch, or you can have dummy switches, and you can change the whole code during a game.  

Or, you can say, today each batter gets a sign switch on the first pitch.  Really simple.  Or you can say, today, in the third inning, the second sign is the real sign.  How hard is that?  Or, catcher walks to the mound and says, next pitch is a sign switch, and then the pitch after that is the real sign.  Or, today, if I rub my leg a certain way, it's a sign switch.  ANYTHING.  

It seems so stupid in this day and age to have the catcher making such obvious signs to the pitcher as "one finger means fastball."  It's so easy to steal signs like that, and so easy to prevent it.

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#2

(01-16-2020, 10:55 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: The Astros were stealing signs before and during the world series they won, using a camera in center field. 

What I am wondering is, it's so easy to do this, and so easy to prevent, why don't teams prevent this sign-stealing by encoding their signs?   Create a code where one sign affects another sign.  Now a "1" doesn't mean fastball; it means curveball, or whatever.  It's so easy to do this.  You can make one sign mean a switch, or you can have dummy switches, and you can change the whole code during a game.  

Or, you can say, today each batter gets a sign switch on the first pitch.  Really simple.  Or you can say, today, in the third inning, the second sign is the real sign.  How hard is that?  Or, catcher walks to the mound and says, next pitch is a sign switch, and then the pitch after that is the real sign.  Or, today, if I rub my leg a certain way, it's a sign switch.  ANYTHING.  

It seems so stupid in this day and age to have the catcher making such obvious signs to the pitcher as "one finger means fastball."  It's so easy to steal signs like that, and so easy to prevent it.

You're not watching then.  The catchers uses multiple signs many times.  Especially with someone on base.  There will be a 'key' or, as you alluded to, a certain sign in the sequence is the valid one.

But if you are watching on camera you don't think it is easy to detect what the 'real' sign is after watching the pitches?
When inventing a foolproof system inventors often underestimate the ingenuity of fools.

A flute with no holes is not a flute.  A donut with no hole is a danish.
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#3

The Astros engaged in institutionalized cheating. Everyone knew, or should have known, and no one stopped it. They should have had their title vacated, imo.
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#4
(This post was last modified: 01-16-2020, 02:09 PM by mikesez.)

(01-16-2020, 10:55 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: The Astros were stealing signs before and during the world series they won, using a camera in center field. 

What I am wondering is, it's so easy to do this, and so easy to prevent, why don't teams prevent this sign-stealing by encoding their signs?   Create a code where one sign affects another sign.  Now a "1" doesn't mean fastball; it means curveball, or whatever.  It's so easy to do this.  You can make one sign mean a switch, or you can have dummy switches, and you can change the whole code during a game.  

Or, you can say, today each batter gets a sign switch on the first pitch.  Really simple.  Or you can say, today, in the third inning, the second sign is the real sign.  How hard is that?  Or, catcher walks to the mound and says, next pitch is a sign switch, and then the pitch after that is the real sign.  Or, today, if I rub my leg a certain way, it's a sign switch.  ANYTHING.  

It seems so stupid in this day and age to have the catcher making such obvious signs to the pitcher as "one finger means fastball."  It's so easy to steal signs like that, and so easy to prevent it.

The point is, the batting team is only allowed to use their own eyes to try to steal the signs. The batting team is not going to have a man in center field. 
In order to decode the sign, you have to see exactly what the sign was, and know exactly what pitch was attempted.
The guys in the dugout and the two coaches on the baseline don't have the perfect view of what pitch was thrown. They may not see the difference between a curveball or an errant fastball. The batter may know after missing the ball, but usually all the batter knows is that he missed. He may not be sure why.
football fans may not get this, because we're used to having coaches up high with radio headsets and a bird's eye view of slow motion instant replay.
What the Astros did would be equivalent to installing microphones on the other team's sideline in football, or intercepting the radio signal between the coaches and the booth and the coaches on the sideline.
And I bet it's a matter of time before we find out that the Patriots did exactly these two things for over a decade.
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
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#5

Hired and fired before the season ever started.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2849...ts-manager
When inventing a foolproof system inventors often underestimate the ingenuity of fools.

A flute with no holes is not a flute.  A donut with no hole is a danish.
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#6

(01-16-2020, 12:02 PM)Rico Wrote:
(01-16-2020, 10:55 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: The Astros were stealing signs before and during the world series they won, using a camera in center field. 

What I am wondering is, it's so easy to do this, and so easy to prevent, why don't teams prevent this sign-stealing by encoding their signs?   Create a code where one sign affects another sign.  Now a "1" doesn't mean fastball; it means curveball, or whatever.  It's so easy to do this.  You can make one sign mean a switch, or you can have dummy switches, and you can change the whole code during a game.  

Or, you can say, today each batter gets a sign switch on the first pitch.  Really simple.  Or you can say, today, in the third inning, the second sign is the real sign.  How hard is that?  Or, catcher walks to the mound and says, next pitch is a sign switch, and then the pitch after that is the real sign.  Or, today, if I rub my leg a certain way, it's a sign switch.  ANYTHING.  

It seems so stupid in this day and age to have the catcher making such obvious signs to the pitcher as "one finger means fastball."  It's so easy to steal signs like that, and so easy to prevent it.

You're not watching then.  The catchers uses multiple signs many times.  Especially with someone on base.  There will be a 'key' or, as you alluded to, a certain sign in the sequence is the valid one.

But if you are watching on camera you don't think it is easy to detect what the 'real' sign is after watching the pitches?

So, my question is, can they or can they not prevent sign stealing from a center field camera?   My point was, it ought to be pretty easy to defeat sign stealing of that nature.

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#7

(01-16-2020, 04:07 PM)The Real Marty Wrote:
(01-16-2020, 12:02 PM)Rico Wrote: You're not watching then.  The catchers uses multiple signs many times.  Especially with someone on base.  There will be a 'key' or, as you alluded to, a certain sign in the sequence is the valid one.

But if you are watching on camera you don't think it is easy to detect what the 'real' sign is after watching the pitches?

So, my question is, can they or can they not prevent sign stealing from a center field camera?   My point was, it ought to be pretty easy to defeat sign stealing of that nature.

That's exactly what I am saying.  If they are using some sort of key, it is going to get detected by watching the signals and the pitches that are thrown after said signal.  I suppose you could change your key from inning to inning, but that would get incredibly confusing.  Even if you do, it's going to get detected by the guys watching the video.
When inventing a foolproof system inventors often underestimate the ingenuity of fools.

A flute with no holes is not a flute.  A donut with no hole is a danish.
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#8

(01-16-2020, 04:17 PM)Rico Wrote:
(01-16-2020, 04:07 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: So, my question is, can they or can they not prevent sign stealing from a center field camera?   My point was, it ought to be pretty easy to defeat sign stealing of that nature.

That's exactly what I am saying.  [<<<Yes]

If they are using some sort of key, it is going to get detected by watching the signals and the pitches that are thrown after said signal.  I suppose you could change your key from inning to inning, but that would get incredibly confusing.  Even if you do, it's going to get detected by the guys watching the video. [<<<No]

It seems like you said yes, but then you followed up with no.

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#9

(01-16-2020, 04:07 PM)The Real Marty Wrote:
(01-16-2020, 12:02 PM)Rico Wrote: You're not watching then.  The catchers uses multiple signs many times.  Especially with someone on base.  There will be a 'key' or, as you alluded to, a certain sign in the sequence is the valid one.

But if you are watching on camera you don't think it is easy to detect what the 'real' sign is after watching the pitches?

So, my question is, can they or can they not prevent sign stealing from a center field camera?   My point was, it ought to be pretty easy to defeat sign stealing of that nature.
Currently, preventing sign stealing is impossible.  The catcher is sending a visual signal, which can be seen and analyzed.  Opposing teams have been doing it with the naked eye forever, especially by a runner on second base.  A catcher may change the signs midgame if he suspects they have been "stolen".  Camera/recording technology just makes it far easier.
When you get into the endzone, act like you've been there before.
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#10

Stealing signs is part of the game, always has been. Question now is what's crossing the line (if there is a line) due to the advancement in technology.

And Pete still banned... smh
"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."
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#11

(02-06-2020, 11:32 PM)pirkster Wrote: Stealing signs is part of the game, always has been.  Question now is what's crossing the line (if there is a line) due to the advancement in technology.

And Pete still banned... smh

For me the line is technology that is superior to human capability (cameras, intercepting audio signals, etc.).

Pete...….if it was up to me, I'd probably let him in.  Gambling didn't help produce all those hits.  How the next few years play out with Bonds, Sosa, A-rod and others should be a factor.  If they get in, Pete absolutely should also.
When you get into the endzone, act like you've been there before.
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#12
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2020, 08:49 AM by Rico.)

Pete Rose is a turd and a miserable excuse for a human being and I really don't care of he ever gets into the Hall.
When inventing a foolproof system inventors often underestimate the ingenuity of fools.

A flute with no holes is not a flute.  A donut with no hole is a danish.
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