Create Account



The Jungle is self-supported by showing advertisements via Google Adsense.
Please consider disabling your advertisement-blocking plugin on the Jungle to help support the site and let us grow!
We also show significantly less advertisements to registered users, so create your account to benefit from this!
Questions or concerns about this ad? Take a screenshot and comment in the thread. We do value your feedback.
Sign Stealing in Baseball

#1

The Astros were stealing signs before and during the world series they won, using a camera in center field. 

What I am wondering is, it's so easy to do this, and so easy to prevent, why don't teams prevent this sign-stealing by encoding their signs?   Create a code where one sign affects another sign.  Now a "1" doesn't mean fastball; it means curveball, or whatever.  It's so easy to do this.  You can make one sign mean a switch, or you can have dummy switches, and you can change the whole code during a game.  

Or, you can say, today each batter gets a sign switch on the first pitch.  Really simple.  Or you can say, today, in the third inning, the second sign is the real sign.  How hard is that?  Or, catcher walks to the mound and says, next pitch is a sign switch, and then the pitch after that is the real sign.  Or, today, if I rub my leg a certain way, it's a sign switch.  ANYTHING.  

It seems so stupid in this day and age to have the catcher making such obvious signs to the pitcher as "one finger means fastball."  It's so easy to steal signs like that, and so easy to prevent it.

Reply

#2

(Yesterday, 10:55 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: The Astros were stealing signs before and during the world series they won, using a camera in center field. 

What I am wondering is, it's so easy to do this, and so easy to prevent, why don't teams prevent this sign-stealing by encoding their signs?   Create a code where one sign affects another sign.  Now a "1" doesn't mean fastball; it means curveball, or whatever.  It's so easy to do this.  You can make one sign mean a switch, or you can have dummy switches, and you can change the whole code during a game.  

Or, you can say, today each batter gets a sign switch on the first pitch.  Really simple.  Or you can say, today, in the third inning, the second sign is the real sign.  How hard is that?  Or, catcher walks to the mound and says, next pitch is a sign switch, and then the pitch after that is the real sign.  Or, today, if I rub my leg a certain way, it's a sign switch.  ANYTHING.  

It seems so stupid in this day and age to have the catcher making such obvious signs to the pitcher as "one finger means fastball."  It's so easy to steal signs like that, and so easy to prevent it.

You're not watching then.  The catchers uses multiple signs many times.  Especially with someone on base.  There will be a 'key' or, as you alluded to, a certain sign in the sequence is the valid one.

But if you are watching on camera you don't think it is easy to detect what the 'real' sign is after watching the pitches?
When inventing a foolproof system inventors often underestimate the ingenuity of fools.

A flute with no holes is not a flute.  A donut with no hole is a danish.
Reply

#3

The Astros engaged in institutionalized cheating. Everyone knew, or should have known, and no one stopped it. They should have had their title vacated, imo.




"Let's throw something at it."
-Me

"Only one way to find out."
-Also me

Reply

#4
(This post was last modified: Yesterday, 02:09 PM by mikesez.)

(Yesterday, 10:55 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: The Astros were stealing signs before and during the world series they won, using a camera in center field. 

What I am wondering is, it's so easy to do this, and so easy to prevent, why don't teams prevent this sign-stealing by encoding their signs?   Create a code where one sign affects another sign.  Now a "1" doesn't mean fastball; it means curveball, or whatever.  It's so easy to do this.  You can make one sign mean a switch, or you can have dummy switches, and you can change the whole code during a game.  

Or, you can say, today each batter gets a sign switch on the first pitch.  Really simple.  Or you can say, today, in the third inning, the second sign is the real sign.  How hard is that?  Or, catcher walks to the mound and says, next pitch is a sign switch, and then the pitch after that is the real sign.  Or, today, if I rub my leg a certain way, it's a sign switch.  ANYTHING.  

It seems so stupid in this day and age to have the catcher making such obvious signs to the pitcher as "one finger means fastball."  It's so easy to steal signs like that, and so easy to prevent it.

The point is, the batting team is only allowed to use their own eyes to try to steal the signs. The batting team is not going to have a man in center field. 
In order to decode the sign, you have to see exactly what the sign was, and know exactly what pitch was attempted.
The guys in the dugout and the two coaches on the baseline don't have the perfect view of what pitch was thrown. They may not see the difference between a curveball or an errant fastball. The batter may know after missing the ball, but usually all the batter knows is that he missed. He may not be sure why.
football fans may not get this, because we're used to having coaches up high with radio headsets and a bird's eye view of slow motion instant replay.
What the Astros did would be equivalent to installing microphones on the other team's sideline in football, or intercepting the radio signal between the coaches and the booth and the coaches on the sideline.
And I bet it's a matter of time before we find out that the Patriots did exactly these two things for over a decade.
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
Reply

#5

Hired and fired before the season ever started.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2849...ts-manager
When inventing a foolproof system inventors often underestimate the ingenuity of fools.

A flute with no holes is not a flute.  A donut with no hole is a danish.
Reply

#6

(Yesterday, 12:02 PM)Rico Wrote:
(Yesterday, 10:55 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: The Astros were stealing signs before and during the world series they won, using a camera in center field. 

What I am wondering is, it's so easy to do this, and so easy to prevent, why don't teams prevent this sign-stealing by encoding their signs?   Create a code where one sign affects another sign.  Now a "1" doesn't mean fastball; it means curveball, or whatever.  It's so easy to do this.  You can make one sign mean a switch, or you can have dummy switches, and you can change the whole code during a game.  

Or, you can say, today each batter gets a sign switch on the first pitch.  Really simple.  Or you can say, today, in the third inning, the second sign is the real sign.  How hard is that?  Or, catcher walks to the mound and says, next pitch is a sign switch, and then the pitch after that is the real sign.  Or, today, if I rub my leg a certain way, it's a sign switch.  ANYTHING.  

It seems so stupid in this day and age to have the catcher making such obvious signs to the pitcher as "one finger means fastball."  It's so easy to steal signs like that, and so easy to prevent it.

You're not watching then.  The catchers uses multiple signs many times.  Especially with someone on base.  There will be a 'key' or, as you alluded to, a certain sign in the sequence is the valid one.

But if you are watching on camera you don't think it is easy to detect what the 'real' sign is after watching the pitches?

So, my question is, can they or can they not prevent sign stealing from a center field camera?   My point was, it ought to be pretty easy to defeat sign stealing of that nature.

Reply

#7

(Yesterday, 04:07 PM)The Real Marty Wrote:
(Yesterday, 12:02 PM)Rico Wrote: You're not watching then.  The catchers uses multiple signs many times.  Especially with someone on base.  There will be a 'key' or, as you alluded to, a certain sign in the sequence is the valid one.

But if you are watching on camera you don't think it is easy to detect what the 'real' sign is after watching the pitches?

So, my question is, can they or can they not prevent sign stealing from a center field camera?   My point was, it ought to be pretty easy to defeat sign stealing of that nature.

That's exactly what I am saying.  If they are using some sort of key, it is going to get detected by watching the signals and the pitches that are thrown after said signal.  I suppose you could change your key from inning to inning, but that would get incredibly confusing.  Even if you do, it's going to get detected by the guys watching the video.
When inventing a foolproof system inventors often underestimate the ingenuity of fools.

A flute with no holes is not a flute.  A donut with no hole is a danish.
Reply

#8

(Yesterday, 04:17 PM)Rico Wrote:
(Yesterday, 04:07 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: So, my question is, can they or can they not prevent sign stealing from a center field camera?   My point was, it ought to be pretty easy to defeat sign stealing of that nature.

That's exactly what I am saying.  [<<<Yes]

If they are using some sort of key, it is going to get detected by watching the signals and the pitches that are thrown after said signal.  I suppose you could change your key from inning to inning, but that would get incredibly confusing.  Even if you do, it's going to get detected by the guys watching the video. [<<<No]

It seems like you said yes, but then you followed up with no.

Reply




Users browsing this thread:
1 Guest(s)

The Jungle is self-supported by showing advertisements via Google Adsense.
Please consider disabling your advertisement-blocking plugin on the Jungle to help support the site and let us grow!
We also show less advertisements to registered users, so create your account to benefit from this!
Questions or concerns about this ad? Take a screenshot and comment in the thread. We do value your feedback.


ABOUT US
The Jungle Forums is the Jaguars' biggest fan message board. Talking about the Jags since 2006, the Jungle was the team-endorsed home of all things Jaguars.

Since 2017, the Jungle is now independent of the team but still run by the same crew. We are here to support and discuss all things Jaguars and all things Duval!