Is this the beginning of the end?  Nate Monroe's column in the T-U: Is Jacksonville Good Enough for Shad Khan?  

https://www.jacksonville.com/news/202002...-shad-khan

A small market, 
a losing team, 
an owner asking for subsidies from the city while other city needs go unmet, 
(in our case) moving two games out of the local stadium, 
fan rebellion, 
newspaper criticism, 

and pretty soon, a classic divorce?  

I think what the city and the fans need right now is HARD EVIDENCE of Khan's commitment to the city.  People will say, he's spent a lot of money locally spiffing up the stadium, and he has big plans for downtown development, but all these projects come with a large taxpayer contribution, and they are all designed to put money in his pocket.  What we need is an ironclad lease that absolutely commits the Jaguars to playing games in our stadium for a few decades at least.  Of course we won't get that. 

I still hold out hope that he means what he says, but they are mis-handling the public relations so badly that local public attitudes will soon make him question whatever commitment he actually has.  

I can see my own attitude changing from "the Jaguars are our team" to "the Jaguars are the team that occupies our stadium."  It's not our team, it's Khan's team, and it's committed to this city only as long as we pony up the money- taxpayer money and ticket money, to fatten up the franchise's bottom line.

If your spouse said to you, "I'm not getting enough from you.  So in order to strengthen and sustain our relationship, I will be spending two nights a week with another person," how would that affect your relationship?  Would you think that relationship had a future?

One thing's for sure- I would never make a trip to London to watch this team play.  I might have before, but not now.

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Khan is obviously struggling financially.  Barely able to make ends meet, can't even afford a hotel room so he has to stay on a yacht.  All Jaguars fans need to step up and renew season tickets immediately to make sure they don't miss out on a possible win or two in Jacksonville.

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It isn't about the team making money. It is about keeping up with the money the other NFL teams make. That is what it boils down to. It isn't greed to want to make money comparable to the other teams in the league.

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It isn't about the team making money. It is about keeping up with the money the other NFL teams make. That is what it boils down to. It isn't greed to want to make money comparable to the other teams in the league.

Look, we were 22nd this year in total attendance at home, granted that is including the wembley game. Still, where and what is acceptable for a team who has 1 winning season per decade, then sucks the rest of the time, supposed to perform? We have the second smallest tv market of all nfl teams bro. Finishing anywhere above 31st in revenue and attendance should be seen as a win for a young, small market franchise that has struggled mightily over the last 15+ years. 2017 and even 2018 numbers show you that if you can generate hype around the team by simply winning and being competitive, Jacksonville is more than capable of supporting a franchise. Hell, we’ve proven that now anyways even while losing.

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It isn't about the team making money. It is about keeping up with the money the other NFL teams make. That is what it boils down to. It isn't greed to want to make money comparable to the other teams in the league.

Look, we were 22nd this year in total attendance at home, granted that is including the wembley game. Still, where and what is acceptable for a team who has 1 winning season per decade, then sucks the rest of the time, supposed to perform? We have the second smallest tv market of all nfl teams bro. Finishing anywhere above 31st in revenue and attendance should be seen as a win for a young, small market franchise that has struggled mightily over the last 15+ years. 2017 and even 2018 numbers show you that if you can generate hype around the team by simply winning and being competitive, Jacksonville is more than capable of supporting a franchise. Hell, we’ve proven that now anyways even while losing.

We are capable of supporting a franchise if the only requirement is to make a profit.  Unfortunately, the same revenue-sharing model that enables that profit is a double-edged sword.  Other owners are also sharing their revenue, and they see themselves as subsidizing our team.  For example, since TV revenue is shared equally, if the Jaguars bring in a fraction of the TV revenue that certain other teams do, why would they be happy about giving the Jaguars an equal share?  

Yes, we make a profit, but it comes from the TV money, and the other owners would say Jacksonville does not pull its weight in that regard.  It's too small.  

As for the "22nd in total attendance" argument, it's easy to be 22nd in attendance if your ticket prices are among the lowest in the league.  If all they want is attendance, they can cut the ticket price to $1 and they'd have the highest attendance in the league.  It's not how many bodies are in the seats, it's the total money they pay to be there.  Additionally, since visiting teams get a percentage of the ticket revenue for their game in Jacksonville, why would they be happy about the low ticket revenue they are sharing?  Visiting teams make way more money on an away game in Dallas than they do in Jacksonville, because they get their standard share of a lot more ticket money.  

It's not greed to want to make more revenue.  It's necessity, because if they don't make more money, eventually the other owners could force a move.

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Also, the London games are typically played at 9:30 AM EST meaning they’re the only game on here and more importantly it’s the only game on in Europe and at more of a prime time slot there. When you’re the only game on, those ad dollars are more expensive since they’re reaching a wider audience.

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Look, we were 22nd this year in total attendance at home, granted that is including the wembley game. Still, where and what is acceptable for a team who has 1 winning season per decade, then sucks the rest of the time, supposed to perform? We have the second smallest tv market of all nfl teams bro. Finishing anywhere above 31st in revenue and attendance should be seen as a win for a young, small market franchise that has struggled mightily over the last 15+ years. 2017 and even 2018 numbers show you that if you can generate hype around the team by simply winning and being competitive, Jacksonville is more than capable of supporting a franchise. Hell, we’ve proven that now anyways even while losing.

We are capable of supporting a franchise if the only requirement is to make a profit.  Unfortunately, the same revenue-sharing model that enables that profit is a double-edged sword.  Other owners are also sharing their revenue, and they see themselves as subsidizing our team.  For example, since TV revenue is shared equally, if the Jaguars bring in a fraction of the TV revenue that certain other teams do, why would they be happy about giving the Jaguars an equal share?  

Yes, we make a profit, but it comes from the TV money, and the other owners would say Jacksonville does not pull its weight in that regard.  It's too small.  

As for the "22nd in total attendance" argument, it's easy to be 22nd in attendance if your ticket prices are among the lowest in the league.  If all they want is attendance, they can cut the ticket price to $1 and they'd have the highest attendance in the league.  It's not how many bodies are in the seats, it's the total money they pay to be there.  Additionally, since visiting teams get a percentage of the ticket revenue for their game in Jacksonville, why would they be happy about the low ticket revenue they are sharing?  Visiting teams make way more money on an away game in Dallas than they do in Jacksonville, because they get their standard share of a lot more ticket money.  

It's not greed to want to make more revenue.  It's necessity, because if they don't make more money, eventually the other owners could force a move.

Good post, Marty. It explains the pressures Khan faces which most folks don’t know or consider.

I believe so many of our woes could be solved if we had a stadium that was attendance worthy during the hottest part of the season. There’s a reason a majority of domed stadiums are in the southern latitudes. Miami addressed their problem with a workable solution. It’s not ideal to an environmentally controlled stadium, but it’s a definite improvement. I’ve always wondered how poverty stricken New Orleans can have a stadium but we can’t.

In the end, if the city truly wants to keep the franchise, then a massive stadium upgrade is needed. Not so much for the benefit of the team, but for the sake of the fans.

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LOL, Mr Marty is feeling quite apocalyptic lately. Apogees of civilization?, Is this is how it all ends? Whats up Marty? It's not that bad, the sun will rise tomorrow my friend. It's Friday, relax.

Short term sacrifice brings long term rewards folks. Look beyond this year or next.

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Looking to troll? Don't bother, we supply our own.

 

 

Look, we were 22nd this year in total attendance at home, granted that is including the wembley game. Still, where and what is acceptable for a team who has 1 winning season per decade, then sucks the rest of the time, supposed to perform? We have the second smallest tv market of all nfl teams bro. Finishing anywhere above 31st in revenue and attendance should be seen as a win for a young, small market franchise that has struggled mightily over the last 15+ years. 2017 and even 2018 numbers show you that if you can generate hype around the team by simply winning and being competitive, Jacksonville is more than capable of supporting a franchise. Hell, we’ve proven that now anyways even while losing.

We are capable of supporting a franchise if the only requirement is to make a profit.  Unfortunately, the same revenue-sharing model that enables that profit is a double-edged sword.  Other owners are also sharing their revenue, and they see themselves as subsidizing our team.  For example, since TV revenue is shared equally, if the Jaguars bring in a fraction of the TV revenue that certain other teams do, why would they be happy about giving the Jaguars an equal share?  

Yes, we make a profit, but it comes from the TV money, and the other owners would say Jacksonville does not pull its weight in that regard.  It's too small.  

As for the "22nd in total attendance" argument, it's easy to be 22nd in attendance if your ticket prices are among the lowest in the league.  If all they want is attendance, they can cut the ticket price to $1 and they'd have the highest attendance in the league.  It's not how many bodies are in the seats, it's the total money they pay to be there.  Additionally, since visiting teams get a percentage of the ticket revenue for their game in Jacksonville, why would they be happy about the low ticket revenue they are sharing?  Visiting teams make way more money on an away game in Dallas than they do in Jacksonville, because they get their standard share of a lot more ticket money.  

It's not greed to want to make more revenue.  It's necessity, because if they don't make more money, eventually the other owners could force a move.

I think this is at the heart of it all. The NFL is making crazy money at the moment, and they want to expand and make as much as they can. Attendance has been falling across the league, the NFL has had plenty of issues with fans that also keep them away (ticket prices etc). 

I remember reading an ESPN article a while back about the league and the LA teams. The NFL is giving them millions of dollars to keep them there and try and make 2 teams work and I fear they look at us as 'not pulling our weight'.

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We are capable of supporting a franchise if the only requirement is to make a profit.  Unfortunately, the same revenue-sharing model that enables that profit is a double-edged sword.  Other owners are also sharing their revenue, and they see themselves as subsidizing our team.  For example, since TV revenue is shared equally, if the Jaguars bring in a fraction of the TV revenue that certain other teams do, why would they be happy about giving the Jaguars an equal share?  

Yes, we make a profit, but it comes from the TV money, and the other owners would say Jacksonville does not pull its weight in that regard.  It's too small.  

As for the "22nd in total attendance" argument, it's easy to be 22nd in attendance if your ticket prices are among the lowest in the league.  If all they want is attendance, they can cut the ticket price to $1 and they'd have the highest attendance in the league.  It's not how many bodies are in the seats, it's the total money they pay to be there.  Additionally, since visiting teams get a percentage of the ticket revenue for their game in Jacksonville, why would they be happy about the low ticket revenue they are sharing?  Visiting teams make way more money on an away game in Dallas than they do in Jacksonville, because they get their standard share of a lot more ticket money.  

It's not greed to want to make more revenue.  It's necessity, because if they don't make more money, eventually the other owners could force a move.

I think this is at the heart of it all. The NFL is making crazy money at the moment, and they want to expand and make as much as they can. Attendance has been falling across the league, the NFL has had plenty of issues with fans that also keep them away (ticket prices etc). 

I remember reading an ESPN article a while back about the league and the LA teams. The NFL is giving them millions of dollars to keep them there and try and make 2 teams work and I fear they look at us as 'not pulling our weight'.

It’s also experience and value. 20-25 years ago when 42 inch screens were a big screen. Going to the game used to be the best way to see the action. Now people have their own home theaters and there are camera angles everywhere.

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Jacksonville is more than capable of supporting our team. Nobody wants to go to games where it’s 105 heat index and our players aren’t even trying. You’d be hard pressed to find any fan base that would stand for that. This is all about Khan’s greed and nothing more. [BLEEP] Khan.

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Jacksonville is more than capable of supporting our team. Nobody wants to go to games where it’s 105 heat index and our players aren’t even trying. You’d be hard pressed to find any fan base that would stand for that. This is all about Khan’s greed and nothing more. [BLEEP] Khan.

So you're trying to act like if you were the owner, you wouldn't care about making money?

Get over yourself. 90% of the people on this board would do the same thing given the circumstances.

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Jacksonville is more than capable of supporting our team. Nobody wants to go to games where it’s 105 heat index and our players aren’t even trying. You’d be hard pressed to find any fan base that would stand for that. This is all about Khan’s greed and nothing more. [BLEEP] Khan.

It sucks losing another home game...it really sucks...but this attitude is [BLEEP] stupid.

I considered cancelling my season tickets because of another home game lost.  It's not about people in the stands.  It's about towing your weight as far as the other teams in the league.  I've seen it explained in numerous places but this has very little to do with Khan's "greed".  With revenue sharing, he has 31 other owners to answer to.  They are, if not all...most, currently carrying us as far as our 'equal' share of that revenue pool.  

I get it.  I don't like it at all, but I get it.

It's all about making downtown more of a 'destination'.  It's a shame that riverfront has never been developed.  It's been sitting vacant since I moved here 30 years ago.  It should be a destination.  It should have been years ago.  But it's just sitting there.  There isn't crap to do around the stadium as it stands right now.  Would you go down to the stadium area if there was no game?  Hopefully the city can get it's [BLEEP] in gear and something can be done.

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Jacksonville is more than capable of supporting our team. Nobody wants to go to games where it’s 105 heat index and our players aren’t even trying. You’d be hard pressed to find any fan base that would stand for that. This is all about Khan’s greed and nothing more. [BLEEP] Khan.

Jacksonville is capable of supporting a team, but they cannot provide as much support as a large market, and since revenue is shared, especially the TV deal which is shared equally, the large market teams, since they bring in a lot more revenue, resent having to share equally with a small market team like Jacksonville.  It's an open question as to whether small market teams will survive in a league that shares revenue, because the large market teams will accuse the small market teams of not pulling their weight financially.

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Jacksonville is more than capable of supporting our team. Nobody wants to go to games where it’s 105 heat index and our players aren’t even trying. You’d be hard pressed to find any fan base that would stand for that. This is all about Khan’s greed and nothing more. [BLEEP] Khan.

So you're trying to act like if you were the owner, you wouldn't care about making money?

Get over yourself. 90% of the people on this board would do the same thing given the circumstances.

Maybe... hes not not making money with those two games here. It’s a matter of commitment to the city. Some owners are more committed than others. Shad isn’t from Jacksonville, he wanted to buy the Rams and this was the team he got instead. Weaver was a driving force behind this city getting this team. He had emotional skin in the game. A lot of owners do. Not Shad.

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So you're trying to act like if you were the owner, you wouldn't care about making money?

Get over yourself. 90% of the people on this board would do the same thing given the circumstances.

Maybe... hes not not making money with those two games here. It’s a matter of commitment to the city. Some owners are more committed than others. Shad isn’t from Jacksonville, he wanted to buy the Rams and this was the team he got instead. Weaver was a driving force behind this city getting this team. He had emotional skin in the game. A lot of owners do. Not Shad.

The owners of these NFL teams are much better business owners than anyone on this board. It's how they became NFL owners in the first place.

I'm not saying it's fantastic to send another game to London but this is a business and it's an entertainment business.

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So you're trying to act like if you were the owner, you wouldn't care about making money?

Get over yourself. 90% of the people on this board would do the same thing given the circumstances.

Maybe... hes not not making money with those two games here. It’s a matter of commitment to the city. Some owners are more committed than others. Shad isn’t from Jacksonville, he wanted to buy the Rams and this was the team he got instead. Weaver was a driving force behind this city getting this team. He had emotional skin in the game. A lot of owners do. Not Shad.

And that's why, if I were the mayor or the city council, before I agree to subsidize Khan's downtown projects, I would ask for an iron-clad guarantee that the Jaguars will be in that stadium for a certain number of years.

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Jacksonville is more than capable of supporting our team. Nobody wants to go to games where it’s 105 heat index and our players aren’t even trying. You’d be hard pressed to find any fan base that would stand for that. This is all about Khan’s greed and nothing more. [BLEEP] Khan.

Jacksonville is capable of supporting a team, but they cannot provide as much support as a large market, and since revenue is shared, especially the TV deal which is shared equally, the large market teams, since they bring in a lot more revenue, resent having to share equally with a small market team like Jacksonville.  It's an open question as to whether small market teams will survive in a league that shares revenue, because the large market teams will accuse the small market teams of not pulling their weight financially.

There will always be teams in markets that make less than average. That's what "average" is all about. The rich teams need other teams to play, and the other teams need to be competitive, hence the revenue sharing. Teams like Dallas also make boatloads of unshared money in things such as jersey sales and local advertisement dollars. Claiming that Jacksonville is not pulling its weight is just spin to support Khan's slow creep of the team to London.

Sure, be the frog that sits in the pot hoping the warming will stop. It won't.

With every game available on TV these days, there's no need to have a local team except for the stadium experience (and my last stadium experience was pretty miserable). I guess that does imply that the loss of home games are no big deal from a fan perspective, except in how it affects the roster in the case of London. But it also implies that you can cheer for and watch any team you want.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

Maybe... hes not not making money with those two games here. It’s a matter of commitment to the city. Some owners are more committed than others. Shad isn’t from Jacksonville, he wanted to buy the Rams and this was the team he got instead. Weaver was a driving force behind this city getting this team. He had emotional skin in the game. A lot of owners do. Not Shad.

And that's why, if I were the mayor or the city council, before I agree to subsidize Khan's downtown projects, I would ask for an iron-clad guarantee that the Jaguars will be in that stadium for a certain number of years.

Isn't the lease on the stadium (good until 2030) and really expensive buyout of said lease a pretty good guarantee? He's already dropped 180 million in stadium upgrades since buying the team... IDK... I think it sucks (for STH only really) but I don't see the conspiracy some of the fans are finding here...

I mean, I guess he could pay the buy out the lease (something in the area of 80+million with remaining lease plus ticket surcharges and parking revenue) but if he was going to do that why dump money into the stadium?
Also, if the team loses money and falls below league average 2 years in a row, he doesn't have to pay said penalties (or 40% less rather) so why add London to increase revenue if losing money would give him an easy out?

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Kane, I don't believe any team in the league can actually lose money anymore with the TV deal that the NFL has now and he just wants a bigger profit to keep up with the big kids. It's a different world now from when the Jags started and the money is blown up to paying a 80 million buy out isn't much at all, and I think he is playing multiple angles to this situation. First he hasn't actually put money into Lot J or the ship yards yet (Which should of been years ago) so he is playing chicken with the city about funding just like he will when he wants a new or renovated stadium. London is the NFL's experiment so he is using that for extra profit and for the people saying "if he was going to move the team to London he would of already", there is no way the other owners want that and just the logistics to playing and moving all these teams back and forth over the ocean is a nightmare not to mention the huge tax hike for the team and players and the team would be worse than they are now, (Maybe in 15 - 20 years when they have figured everything out a team will be international or multiple teams will). He also can put money into things like lot J and still move since it will be an investment property that will make him money either way (plus have the city from a chunk of the bill to build his investment). He could totally buy up all the property downtown and develop it and it would just be a business investment and could totally be separate from the Jags. And hearing he is trying to build on his return of investment is a crock, his return of investment is the fact that the team is worth 3 times what he paid for it and like other good owners who care about winning and don't take the competitive advantage away from their team by giving up home games or keeping a defunct front office and coaching staff. And unlike baseball the huge TV profit sharing and salary cap makes small markets more competitive so to see a team be run so poorly is heartbreaking.

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