---

Post any data Cleatwood. I dare you. I've not posted one piece of information from a right-wing site. Every single thing I've posted here is an actual study from a legitimate site. When I've questioned a study, it's about methodology flaws or bias. I've watched hundreds of hours of videos on this virus and spent about as much time reading papers. If you cared to look back in this thread, you will find I have been right about everything I've posted here, with the exception of ADE (jury's still out, and I hope the scientists did their job). I'm beginning to feel optimistic about the future of this vaccine, but I still feel like we're another year or two out before we can give it the degree of confidence Big Pharma had when it first came out. If you want, you can quibble if Big Pharma just really cares about us little guys, but you'd be a fool to take that position. 

FSG is wrong for firing those employees. Period. I call him out for it, because someone needs to. This is one of the few issues that I feel strongly about.

No one “needs” to call him out because it doesn’t concern you. You just like to try and “educate” people when they don’t ask for it (like your neighbor).

His place of employment doesn’t concern you.

This is a political forum. We are discussing political issues. He is an administrator at a major hospital in this area. What do you mean his choices don't affect me? They affect all of us. They are making reactionary decisions. I have laid out a solid case for why it's not smart, and his response is still ultimately that he can. I don't disagree that he can. I am saying it's not moral or wise. The case that it makes the hospital safer is weak. This is the same exact reasoning that leads to people getting arrested being 200 feet from their house. It's a shame you can't see that.

Also, my neighbor is a moron. She's a well meaning moron, that likes politics the same way people like their favorites sports teams. Not unlike several of the posters here.

---

Why is this idiot wearing a mask to get his booster?

President Biden gets a third Covid-19 vaccine shot. https://t.co/5187nmqvPR

---

---

No one “needs” to call him out because it doesn’t concern you. You just like to try and “educate” people when they don’t ask for it (like your neighbor).

His place of employment doesn’t concern you.

This is a political forum. We are discussing political issues. He is an administrator at a major hospital in this area. What do you mean his choices don't affect me? They affect all of us. They are making reactionary decisions. I have laid out a solid case for why it's not smart, and his response is still ultimately that he can. I don't disagree that he can. I am saying it's not moral or wise. The case that it makes the hospital safer is weak. This is the same exact reasoning that leads to people getting arrested being 200 feet from their house. It's a shame you can't see that.

Also, my neighbor is a moron. She's a well meaning moron, that likes politics the same way people like their favorites sports teams. Not unlike several of the posters here.

Of course you believe your case is solid, but the weight of the evidence is not sufficient to sway the governing bodies who oversee our practice of healthcare. And it's both immoral and unwise to refuse to protect your patients, peers, and self from a contagious pathogen to the fullest extent possible. This not a new stance in healthcare, it's been a matter of practice for decades. But this bug is so highly politicized that it doesn't matter how we've always done things. It doesn't matter that the vaccine works. It doesn't matter that vaccine refusal is costly in both money and lives. It just matters that everyone is an expert now and it's easy to be an expert with no real skin in the game. It's taken 8 months for the decision to be made, the decision that you deride as "reactionary", a decision ultimately made by a collection of physicians, administrators, clergy, an ethics panel, and a Board of Directors made up of community leaders and advocates. Frankly I support their decision because they are right, and you, who for months has been adamant that the vaccine should be given to the high risk population, refuses to accept that mandatory vaccination for health care workers is exactly what you've been advocating for. But now, for some reason, you're opposed to that as well, even as you say that you're "coming around" on the vaccine. So which is it? You don't get the luxury of long and cumbersome decision trees when you're talking about 10,000 people who serve three quarters of a million more; you have to make a choice for all because that's the responsibility of the healthcare organization. And this choice is quite simple because it's binary; and every single person gets to decide for themselves what to do.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

This is the America some of you want.

More insane police overreach in Melbourne. Guy put in handcuffs for being a few hundred metres from his home. Police say “he has no valid reason to be there” & “wasn’t wearing a face mask”. He says he was getting lunch & having a cigarette.
https://t.co/7iQvVDkUcg

Funny how the footage always start just when police get physical.

---

Love this.

Washington Wizards Star Bradley Beal is dropping MASSIVE Red Pills on the NBA ?
https://t.co/hv1eeJklrm

---

---

This is a political forum. We are discussing political issues. He is an administrator at a major hospital in this area. What do you mean his choices don't affect me? They affect all of us. They are making reactionary decisions. I have laid out a solid case for why it's not smart, and his response is still ultimately that he can. I don't disagree that he can. I am saying it's not moral or wise. The case that it makes the hospital safer is weak. This is the same exact reasoning that leads to people getting arrested being 200 feet from their house. It's a shame you can't see that.

Also, my neighbor is a moron. She's a well meaning moron, that likes politics the same way people like their favorites sports teams. Not unlike several of the posters here.

Of course you believe your case is solid, but the weight of the evidence is not sufficient to sway the governing bodies who oversee our practice of healthcare. And it's both immoral and unwise to refuse to protect your patients, peers, and self from a contagious pathogen to the fullest extent possible. This not a new stance in healthcare, it's been a matter of practice for decades. But this bug is so highly politicized that it doesn't matter how we've always done things. It doesn't matter that the vaccine works. It doesn't matter that vaccine refusal is costly in both money and lives. It just matters that everyone is an expert now and it's easy to be an expert with no real skin in the game. It's taken 8 months for the decision to be made, the decision that you deride as "reactionary", a decision ultimately made by a collection of physicians, administrators, clergy, an ethics panel, and a Board of Directors made up of community leaders and advocates. Frankly I support their decision because they are right, and you, who for months has been adamant that the vaccine should be given to the high risk population, refuses to accept that mandatory vaccination for health care workers is exactly what you've been advocating for. But now, for some reason, you're opposed to that as well, even as you say that you're "coming around" on the vaccine. So which is it? You don't get the luxury of long and cumbersome decision trees when you're talking about 10,000 people who serve three quarters of a million more; you have to make a choice for all because that's the responsibility of the healthcare organization. And this choice is quite simple because it's binary; and every single person gets to decide for themselves what to do.

My case is solid. You just keep arguing in circles. 

1. How many times have you been wrong in this thread? How many times have the governing bodies been wrong?
2. This is a novel vaccine; not the flu shot, not any other established vaccine. 
3. To what degree does this vaccine mitigate damage for healthy people under 50 and those with natural immunity?
4. Are you actually protecting your patients with your policies. 
5. Is it moral to enforce a vaccine that has been untested for an extended period of time to a group of people that will not likely have complications from a disease?

Starting with point 1, I have showed that the science is unclear. Not only has it been unclear at times, it has been wrong. 

Which leads to point 2, people have the right to observe for themselves whether or not this vaccine should be trusted, especially considering the incompetency of the government and influence of big pharma on policy. Making a mandate, be it government or private practice is immoral, unless other people's lives are threatened by those choices. I realize this has been standard practice in the past, but not for novel vaccines. They didn't even implement it this fast for the flu vaccine until people had a chance to observe the affects. 

Which leads to point 3, the vaccine does practically nothing for HEALTHY people under 50 and those who already have natural immunity. We, as citizens, can't even look the covid survival rate for people under 50 without comorbidities because our governing bodies are fast at work obfuscating data, but even without, it is easy to show that the vaccine is not drastically reducing anything in this demographic. Using a few incidents of this is just anecdotal evidence, and worthless for decision making. Might as well let Nikki Minaj decide based on her cousin's ball size. 

Oh, by the way, at risk population, for me, is not those who catch it. It's those who have some underlying issue that is going to cause them to get seriously harmed by it. Putting all healthcare workers in that category is ridiculous, unless you mean to say obese healthcare workers over 50 who also have other issues. Again, once you get enough data under our belt, I'm open to changing that. This whole process has made me dig into reasoning behind the flu shot, and even that is suspect to me now. Not sure that does much, either, but I digress, and we can debate that at another time. There is more than enough evidence to suggest that healthy people under 50 will handle this virus just fine on their own, and will better served with natural immunity, so unless you're actually protecting others to a significant degree, probably best to leave it to freedom of choice.

Which leads to point number 4, The data is CLEAR that the vaccinated still spread this disease. In America, our data has been completely muddled because of our incompetent testing policies. In other nations, where the data is more accurate, it's clear that breakthroughs are occurring with a startling frequency, but people are not being hospitalized. Should I point to the prison study that shows 70% of vaccinated inmates got the delta variant? That's not a small percentage. What about the breakthrough rates in Israel? The UK? The only place that isn't experiencing that is Sweden, which, surprise, surprise, most of their people have natural immunity. Natural immunity provides superior protection without forcing people to get the shot. If only 4% of your workforce is unvaccinated, how long until they have that, and provided they are healthy, isn't that the better solution?

Which leads to the conclusion, point number 5: It is morally wrong to force healthy people who have almost zero chance of dying from a disease to take a vaccine that is going to offer almost no increased protection (again for the healthy under 50 with no comorbidities), nor is it drastically going to limit the spread until that said group of people have had enough time to observe the efficacy and long term effects of the vaccine in humans. The efficacy of the vaccine is what I'm coming around to, but I still want to see how it performs through a couple seasons of mutations. 

That is a solid case. Your rebuttal is that you can vaccinate and that you have precedent. When I point out that it's not moral, you say your are saving lives. When I point out you're not saving lives, you say that you have precedent. My reasoning is linear. Yours is circular. You never even answered the question I've asked twice: Is your hospital requiring the vaccinated to get tested every other day? Because that will actually be helpful for your patients. 

Here's another precedent I'd like you to address: what other vaccine to they make mandatory after you've already had the disease? Unless it's one that can cause ADE, the answer is none. Not even with the flu shot. Why? Because it's stupid. 

None if this even addresses the other potential fallouts of the vaccine or the policy surrounding it, such as a reduced healthcare workforce or any of the many complications that can be caused by vaccination rates. The whole reason they want everyone to get vaccinated (they say) is to mitigate the risks of a mutant variant, but they act like that's not going to happen in 3rd world countries or in one of the many animals that can also catch this and pass it back to humans. Btw, they are already starting to require booster shots for healthcare workers. It's not even been a year, man. And that leads to a different set of issues entirely. You have people stepping down at the FDA because they feel the science is being ignored. It's ridiculous. 

When you look at the myriad factors influencing the Covid vaccination policies, it should be easy to see that this is not black and white. And, the less black and white an issue is, the less it should be mandated. Please address my points in full, without talking in circles. Show me where a premise is wrong and I'll change my take. 

Until then, I don't care that you're just doing your job. So are the cops in Australia.

---

Love this.

Washington Wizards Star Bradley Beal is dropping MASSIVE Red Pills on the NBA ?
https://t.co/hv1eeJklrm

Shouldn't he just shut up and dribble..... or nah?

---

Love this.

Washington Wizards Star Bradley Beal is dropping MASSIVE Red Pills on the NBA ?
https://t.co/hv1eeJklrm

Shouldn't he just shut up and dribble..... or nah?

LeBron is a modern day slave to the CCP. And he doesn't even realize it. That's okay though, John Cena is too.. pretty much all of them are.

It's refreshing to see someone question things in an articulate and factually correct way.

---

Shouldn't he just shut up and dribble..... or nah?

LeBron is a modern day slave to the CCP. And he doesn't even realize it. That's okay though, John Cena is too.. pretty much all of them are.

It's refreshing to see someone question things in an articulate and factually correct way.

Sure. Beal and others have every right to say what they want but my point was that (not too long ago) this board was literally telling players to "shut up and play".

Just interesting to see the takes from some change depending on what the players are saying.....

---

Both sides are guilty of doing this. I don't really like it, either way. The left typically has a monopoly on celebrity reinforcement, so I get why conservatives get excited when someone reinforces their point of view, but, other than that, people generally should have the platform to say what they want. I couldn't tell from the clip, but it seemed like Beal was just answering questions from reporters, unlike LBJ, who was using his fame to create a platform for his beliefs. It's a small distinction; Noteworthy, but not really changing the position we share that people should be able to say what they want.

---

Fully Vaccinated Couple dies one minute apart from COVID -



By: FOX 17Posted at 10:42 AM, Sep 27, 2021 and last updated 8:04 AM, Sep 28, 2021

GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. — "Sarah Dunham says her parents Cal and Linda Dunham did everything together. The churchgoing, community-minded outdoor enthusiasts loved their family – especially their grandchildren – and most of all, each other.
“The love that they found together after a previous marriage is fantastic,” said Sarah. “They were the people that you just looked at and you were like, ‘I want to be old like that, I want that love when I’m that age.’”
The pair were also cautious when it came to COVID-19. They were both fully vaccinated and had been for months when, during a family camping trip this month, they began to feel sick."

“[My dad] called me before our family camping trip and said he wasn’t feeling good but he thinks it’s just like sinus, and [Linda] caught it and she’s like, he gave me his cold,” said Sarah. “The third day they woke me up and said, ‘we’ve got to go because we don’t feel well.’ So I packed them all up and they left.”
Days later, the couple was hospitalized and on ventilators – both had preexisting conditions that made things even more dire. By this past Sunday, doctors were telling Sarah and the family there wasn’t much more they could do, and the couple would likely need to come off life-support Monday.

After being wheeled into the same room, moments later, Cal passed away at 11:07 a.m.

At 11:08 a.m., less than a minute later, Linda passed away as well as the couple held hands in hospital beds beside one another.



https://www.fox17online.com/news/coronav...m-covid-19

---

"If you always do what you've always done, You'll always get what you always got"

Typically you’re just dumb, Ronster. Other times you’re simply a stone cold moron.

---

When it's your time to go it's your time to go.

---

Typically you’re just dumb, Ronster. Other times you’re simply a stone cold moron.

And I never care what you think...I'm sorry you don't like the truth. They had both been vaccinated, both contracted COVID and both died, within one minute of each other. What about that REPORT is moronic or dumb, specifically? Nothing actually, you just want to be abusive and ugly as usual.

---

"If you always do what you've always done, You'll always get what you always got"

Typically you’re just dumb, Ronster. Other times you’re simply a stone cold moron.

And I never care what you think...I'm sorry you don't like the truth. They had both been vaccinated, both contracted COVID and both died, within one minute of each other. What about that REPORT is moronic or dumb, specifically? Nothing actually, you just want to be abusive and ugly as usual.

The fact you would revel in the deaths of two people in an asinine attempt to prove your tinfoil hat theories is moronic and distasteful.

---

And I never care what you think...I'm sorry you don't like the truth. They had both been vaccinated, both contracted COVID and both died, within one minute of each other. What about that REPORT is moronic or dumb, specifically? Nothing actually, you just want to be abusive and ugly as usual.

The fact you would revel in the deaths of two people in an asinine attempt to prove your tinfoil hat theories is moronic and distasteful.

Oh give me a break you sanctimonious turd, the left does it all the time about the unvaccinated, but that's righteous and educational. No, you just hate the FACTS and instead of debating its merits you CHOSE to be nasty little [BLEEP]

---

"If you always do what you've always done, You'll always get what you always got"

Typically you’re just dumb, Ronster. Other times you’re simply a stone cold moron.

And I never care what you think...I'm sorry you don't like the truth. They had both been vaccinated, both contracted COVID and both died, within one minute of each other. What about that REPORT is moronic or dumb, specifically? Nothing actually, you just want to be abusive and ugly as usual.

Well you are known to be very....opinionated about these things in a way that makes your post seem like you're gloating about it. I got the same impression as HB but decided to speak logic instead of tell you it was an [BLEEP] thing to do.

---

And I never care what you think...I'm sorry you don't like the truth. They had both been vaccinated, both contracted COVID and both died, within one minute of each other. What about that REPORT is moronic or dumb, specifically? Nothing actually, you just want to be abusive and ugly as usual.

Well you are known to be very....opinionated about these things in a way that makes your post seem like you're gloating about it. I got the same impression as HB but decided to speak logic instead of tell you it was an [BLEEP] thing to do.

I didn't even add commentary, I simply posted a REPORT from a local news station on it. Again, just the facts. Which stands to reason that the TRUTH HURTS. I get no pleasure in ANYONE dying, believe me. But, if reporting that story saves ONE LIFE, then it was worth it.

---

"If you always do what you've always done, You'll always get what you always got"

Well you are known to be very....opinionated about these things in a way that makes your post seem like you're gloating about it. I got the same impression as HB but decided to speak logic instead of tell you it was an [BLEEP] thing to do.

I didn't even add commentary, I simply posted a REPORT from a local news station on it. Again, just the facts. Which stands to reason that the TRUTH HURTS. I get no pleasure in ANYONE dying, believe me. But, if reporting that story saves ONE LIFE, then it was worth it.

So your position based on that report is that the vaccine killed them, not complications from COVID even though they were vaccinated ( which we know isn't 100% perfect and the couple had underlying conditions, as per the article)?

---

I didn't even add commentary, I simply posted a REPORT from a local news station on it. Again, just the facts. Which stands to reason that the TRUTH HURTS. I get no pleasure in ANYONE dying, believe me. But, if reporting that story saves ONE LIFE, then it was worth it.

So your position based on that report is that the vaccine killed them, not complications from COVID even though they were vaccinated ( which we know isn't 100% perfect and the couple had underlying conditions, as per the article)?

No, that is not my position.  I found it interesting that two people from the same family died within ONE minute of each other because of COVID, despite being supposedly protected by the ALL POWERFUL VACCINE. Apparently, I am not the only one since a local news station found it interesting enough to write a report about it. Again, I am just the messenger, if you want to be mad at someone, go be mad at them. Go write them hate mail for having the audacity to report it. Good Grief, some of you all just wanna hate for hate's sake.. Petty small minded twits...

---

"If you always do what you've always done, You'll always get what you always got"