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Expectations/Plans for Jags new offense under Gruden

#1
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2020, 07:08 PM by mal234.)

Chris Thompson recently talked with reporters about what we can expect from the Jags new offense underneath Jay Gruden. Some of us have speculated/have some ideas on what Jay may do. But here is what Chris (who played underneath Jay with the Redskins) said about what to expect for the Jags new offense: (from the Jaguars/sports illustrated websites):


Quote:"He wants his playmakers to know what everybody's doing," Thompson said. "He's going to line guys all up in different places. 

Quote:For him, the more playmakers the better," Thompson said. "He's going to spread the ball around. It's not going to be one guy that will be the full focus of the offense.


Quote:We had a lot of different-receiver sets there and he always made it work with the skill players he had. From what I know of the players and playmakers who are here in Jacksonville, it's going to be good for all of them."


https://www.jaguars.com/news/offseason-u...ent-places

Chris also said he discussed expectations and plans for the offense with Minshew recently.


Quote:"I was just letting him (Minshew) know he (Gruden) wants to put guys all over the place," Thompson said. "It's not just knowing what you have to do, but if you know what the guys around you are doing as well it helps give him even more flexibility to do some things and open up that offense."

Chris has also talked in another article how Minshew is coming along with the playbook. He said that Minshew has had it for about a month now. He believes Gardner is getting a good grasp of it and says that Gardner will ask him questions in players only meetings. He says that Gardner will ask him questions about different things including what Jay is looking for when it comes to certain play calls, how he's going to play and what he expects routes to look like. Chris says that Gardner is asking the right type of questions.

And Chris is answering his questions/helping him. Chris says he will help the offense players on the Jags learn Gruden's offense. He says he thinks that Gardner is catching on well and that he will get it along with the other playmakers on the team. Chris believes that Jay will do everything he can to help Gardner succeed.

https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/gard...-teammates

https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/chri...erback-out

I wouldn't be surprised if this offense ended up looking good underneath Gruden. I'm glad that Gardner is getting a good grasp of the playbook and asking the right questions. It's good to have two players on the team like Thompson who will help him understand Gruden's offense. I'm looking forward to hearing/seeing more about what the Jags offense may look like/end up doing underneath him.
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#2

It may take some time to click for a few of the younger guys, but I think the pieces are in place for some good mismatches.

If the right guys learn routes from multiple spots as suggested it shouldn't be too tough to get a speed mismatch or a size/length mismatch happening when a conversion or big play is required. I hope Gruden cooks up a cool package of plays for Shenault that give him a chance to create YAC.

I think they'll be able to have a productive offense in 2020.

Defense is a boatload of question marks right now, so Gruden's group will need to put up points.
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#3

(05-20-2020, 07:42 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: It may take some time to click for a few of the younger guys, but I think the pieces are in place for some good mismatches.

If the right guys learn routes from multiple spots as suggested it shouldn't be too tough to get a speed mismatch or a size/length mismatch happening when a conversion or big play is required.  I hope Gruden cooks up a cool package of plays for Shenault that give him a chance to create YAC.

I think they'll be able to have a productive offense in 2020.

Defense is a boatload of question marks right now, so Gruden's group will need to put up points.

I think we are going to punch some teams in the mouth early in the season before they know what to expect.
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#4

(05-20-2020, 08:53 PM)Newton Wrote:
(05-20-2020, 07:42 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: It may take some time to click for a few of the younger guys, but I think the pieces are in place for some good mismatches.

If the right guys learn routes from multiple spots as suggested it shouldn't be too tough to get a speed mismatch or a size/length mismatch happening when a conversion or big play is required.  I hope Gruden cooks up a cool package of plays for Shenault that give him a chance to create YAC.

I think they'll be able to have a productive offense in 2020.

Defense is a boatload of question marks right now, so Gruden's group will need to put up points.

I think we are going to punch some teams in the mouth early in the season before they know what to expect.

I'm expecting the '96 Jaguars on offense, surprising a lot of teams with youth and go-for-broke mentality. The defense will have growing pains.
"I am only an average man, but by George, I work harder at it than the average man." - Teddy Roosevelt

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#5

(05-20-2020, 10:36 PM)TheDogCatcher Wrote:
(05-20-2020, 08:53 PM)Newton Wrote: I think we are going to punch some teams in the mouth early in the season before they know what to expect.

I'm expecting the '96 Jaguars on offense, surprising a lot of teams with youth and go-for-broke mentality. The defense will have growing pains.

Agreed. I think we are lacking at CB2, FS and DT. We are going to struggle early, but if our young NT can develop later into the year we should see the run defense improve. Not sure if our secondary will look all that great at all this season.
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#6

With all the restrictions imposed by the pandemic, I wonder if the teams that have continuity from last season will have a significant advantage early in the upcoming season, especially on offense.

Teams like Carolina, with a brand new coaching staff, have to be at a severe disadvantage. Jacksonville, with a new offensive coordinator, will have some adjusting to do, too.
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#7

I’ve given up long ago on the folly of predicting the Jaguars season. One thing that can always be reliably predicted is the wheels coming off at some point in the season, 2017 being the exception due to an odd lack of injuries. The only mentally healthy option is to wait and see. And hope. I always hope.
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#8
(This post was last modified: 05-22-2020, 11:02 PM by Bullseye.)

(05-20-2020, 07:02 PM)mal234 Wrote: Chris Thompson recently talked with reporters about what we can expect from the Jags new offense underneath Jay Gruden. Some of us have speculated/have some ideas on what Jay may do. But here is what Chris (who played underneath Jay with the Redskins) said about what to expect for the Jags new offense: (from the Jaguars/sports illustrated websites):


Quote:"He wants his playmakers to know what everybody's doing," Thompson said. "He's going to line guys all up in different places. 

Quote:For him, the more playmakers the better," Thompson said. "He's going to spread the ball around. It's not going to be one guy that will be the full focus of the offense.


Quote:We had a lot of different-receiver sets there and he always made it work with the skill players he had. From what I know of the players and playmakers who are here in Jacksonville, it's going to be good for all of them."


https://www.jaguars.com/news/offseason-u...ent-places

Chris also said he discussed expectations and plans for the offense with Minshew recently.


Quote:"I was just letting him (Minshew) know he (Gruden) wants to put guys all over the place," Thompson said. "It's not just knowing what you have to do, but if you know what the guys around you are doing as well it helps give him even more flexibility to do some things and open up that offense."

Chris has also talked in another article how Minshew is coming along with the playbook. He said that Minshew has had it for about a month now. He believes Gardner is getting a good grasp of it and says that Gardner will ask him questions in players only meetings. He says that Gardner will ask him questions about different things including what Jay is looking for when it comes to certain play calls, how he's going to play and what he expects routes to look like. Chris says that Gardner is asking the right type of questions.

And Chris is answering his questions/helping him. Chris says he will help the offense players on the Jags learn Gruden's offense. He says he thinks that Gardner is catching on well and that he will get it along with the other playmakers on the team. Chris believes that Jay will do everything he can to help Gardner succeed.

https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/gard...-teammates

https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/chri...erback-out

I wouldn't be surprised if this offense ended up looking good underneath Gruden. I'm glad that Gardner is getting a good grasp of the playbook and asking the right questions. It's good to have two players on the team like Thompson who will help him understand Gruden's offense. I'm looking forward to hearing/seeing more about what the Jags offense may look like/end up doing underneath him.
I really hope Shenault and the other guys not familiar with the offense picks it up quickly and has sufficient understanding of it to be one of those playmakers.  I would hate to think Chark could take such a big step forward last year, then lose the progress this year over not knowing enough of the offense. For that matter, same with Minshew.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#9

(05-22-2020, 11:01 PM)Bullseye Wrote:
(05-20-2020, 07:02 PM)mal234 Wrote: ...


Chris has also talked in another article how Minshew is coming along with the playbook. He said that Minshew has had it for about a month now. He believes Gardner is getting a good grasp of it and says that Gardner will ask him questions in players only meetings. He says that Gardner will ask him questions about different things including what Jay is looking for when it comes to certain play calls, how he's going to play and what he expects routes to look like. Chris says that Gardner is asking the right type of questions.

And Chris is answering his questions/helping him. Chris says he will help the offense players on the Jags learn Gruden's offense. He says he thinks that Gardner is catching on well and that he will get it along with the other playmakers on the team. Chris believes that Jay will do everything he can to help Gardner succeed.

https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/gard...-teammates

https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/chri...erback-out

I wouldn't be surprised if this offense ended up looking good underneath Gruden. I'm glad that Gardner is getting a good grasp of the playbook and asking the right questions. It's good to have two players on the team like Thompson who will help him understand Gruden's offense. I'm looking forward to hearing/seeing more about what the Jags offense may look like/end up doing underneath him.
I really hope Shenault and the other guys not familiar with the offense picks it up quickly and has sufficient understanding of it to be one of those playmakers.  I would hate to think Chark could take such a big step forward last year, then lose the progress this year over not knowing enough of the offense.  For that matter, same with Minshew.

Chark and Minshew both learned Flip's offense in one offseason well enough to put up good numbers. 
Perhaps this one will be a bit more difficult to absorb, but I have confidence they'll get it. 

RE: Shenault - I have no idea how learning Gruden's offense will go for him. Hopefully they don't overload him as a rookie.
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#10

(05-23-2020, 08:30 AM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(05-22-2020, 11:01 PM)Bullseye Wrote: I really hope Shenault and the other guys not familiar with the offense picks it up quickly and has sufficient understanding of it to be one of those playmakers.  I would hate to think Chark could take such a big step forward last year, then lose the progress this year over not knowing enough of the offense.  For that matter, same with Minshew.

Chark and Minshew both learned Flip's offense in one offseason well enough to put up good numbers. 
Perhaps this one will be a bit more difficult to absorb, but I have confidence they'll get it. 

RE: Shenault - I have no idea how learning Gruden's offense will go for him. Hopefully they don't overload him as a rookie.

I have my worries with the team for 2020 but Gruden has been working as an OC or HC for the last 10+ seasons, hes built very good units in the past so should be able to know and help guys that are and aren't picking up the new system. He should be able to adjust where we are weak and exploit what strengths and matchups he can scheme. 

Im trying to keep me expectations limited, its a big ask to fix all the scheme and mental issues in one very disrupted off season. I dont know any coach that could do that.
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#11

(05-20-2020, 10:36 PM)TheDogCatcher Wrote:
(05-20-2020, 08:53 PM)Newton Wrote: I think we are going to punch some teams in the mouth early in the season before they know what to expect.

I'm expecting the '96 Jaguars on offense, surprising a lot of teams with youth and go-for-broke mentality. The defense will have growing pains.

that was a fun year, but don't forget Brunell threw 20 interceptions that year...
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
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#12

(05-23-2020, 08:30 AM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(05-22-2020, 11:01 PM)Bullseye Wrote: I really hope Shenault and the other guys not familiar with the offense picks it up quickly and has sufficient understanding of it to be one of those playmakers.  I would hate to think Chark could take such a big step forward last year, then lose the progress this year over not knowing enough of the offense.  For that matter, same with Minshew.

Chark and Minshew both learned Flip's offense in one offseason well enough to put up good numbers. 
Perhaps this one will be a bit more difficult to absorb, but I have confidence they'll get it. 

RE: Shenault - I have no idea how learning Gruden's offense will go for him. Hopefully they don't overload him as a rookie.

I think both Flip and Gruden have WCO principles throughout their offense, so to that extent, that may be of help.

But I do not recall, players having to know the responsibilities of the other players on any given play.

To be honest I am at a loss as to how they should proceed with Shenault.

On the one hand, part of me thinks they should keep him at WR and let him master the basics and nuances of the position before moving him around.  On the other hand, it seems to me that moving him around is the a good way way to maximize his impact, at least in the short term and help to create different mismatches.  That seems to be the plan based on different Marrone statements.

At this point, I think it'll be based  on two things:  how quickly he picks up the offense and Keenan's evaluation of his progress in terms of route running, escaping the jam, etc.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#13

(05-23-2020, 11:13 AM)JagFan81 Wrote:
(05-23-2020, 08:30 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: Chark and Minshew both learned Flip's offense in one offseason well enough to put up good numbers. 
Perhaps this one will be a bit more difficult to absorb, but I have confidence they'll get it. 

RE: Shenault - I have no idea how learning Gruden's offense will go for him. Hopefully they don't overload him as a rookie.

I have my worries with the team for 2020 but Gruden has been working as an OC or HC for the last 10+ seasons, hes built very good units in the past so should be able to know and help guys that are and aren't picking up the new system. He should be able to adjust where we are weak and exploit what strengths and matchups he can scheme. 

Im trying to keep me expectations limited, its a big ask to fix all the scheme and mental issues in one very disrupted off season. I dont know any coach that could do that.

(Emphasis added)

I didn't even get into this aspect of things in my prior response.  Rookie WRs often have a trough transition into the league the first year, even when they don't have the degree of fundamental deficiencies in terms of route running, escaping the jam, etc., that Shenault is rumored to have.  That plus having to know what everyone is doing on offense, and all of this in the most unconventional offseason I have ever seen, I agree completely with you here.

Scaling back the package for Shenault seems inevitable.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#14

Guys we’re not gonna have any problem scoring points and moving the ball.

Chark just came off a Pro Bowl year. Shenault is going to be a nightmare for defenses. The kid have an extra gear and is built like a LB. He’s going to take the top of the defense. Fournette is going to face less and less 8 and 9 man fronts.

Oliver and Eifert will help our TE position be more productive than years past, but don’t count out O’Shegegehegehe

Minshew Mania will be a perfect fit for this Gruden offense. It will be waaaaay better than that Flip guy who had Fournette lead the team in catches.
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#15

(05-23-2020, 05:31 PM)Bullseye Wrote:
(05-23-2020, 08:30 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: Chark and Minshew both learned Flip's offense in one offseason well enough to put up good numbers. 
Perhaps this one will be a bit more difficult to absorb, but I have confidence they'll get it. 

RE: Shenault - I have no idea how learning Gruden's offense will go for him. Hopefully they don't overload him as a rookie.

I think both Flip and Gruden have WCO principles throughout their offense, so to that extent, that may be of help.

But I do not recall, players having to know the responsibilities of the other players on any given play.

To be honest I am at a loss as to how they should proceed with Shenault.

On the one hand, part of me thinks they should keep him at WR and let him master the basics and nuances of the position before moving him around.  On the other hand, it seems to me that moving him around is the a good way way to maximize his impact, at least in the short term and help to create different mismatches.  That seems to be the plan based on different Marrone statements.

At this point, I think it'll be based  on two things:  how quickly he picks up the offense and Keenan's evaluation of his progress in terms of route running, escaping the jam, etc.

Personally, I'd have him learn a small package of plays at three spots.  Z receiver , Slot (y) receiver, and RB.  
 
They should definitely focus on one receiving spot at first and proceed according to his ability to absorb and implement information. 

But - if they can get him versed in a few different spots well enough to have a go-to play at each spot - all having variations that can be called to keep defenses honest, then he's got a great shot at making an impact. Maybe Caldwell will finally find his true OW.
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#16

(05-23-2020, 07:51 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(05-23-2020, 05:31 PM)Bullseye Wrote: I think both Flip and Gruden have WCO principles throughout their offense, so to that extent, that may be of help.

But I do not recall, players having to know the responsibilities of the other players on any given play.

To be honest I am at a loss as to how they should proceed with Shenault.

On the one hand, part of me thinks they should keep him at WR and let him master the basics and nuances of the position before moving him around.  On the other hand, it seems to me that moving him around is the a good way way to maximize his impact, at least in the short term and help to create different mismatches.  That seems to be the plan based on different Marrone statements.

At this point, I think it'll be based  on two things:  how quickly he picks up the offense and Keenan's evaluation of his progress in terms of route running, escaping the jam, etc.

Personally, I'd have him learn a small package of plays at three spots.  Z receiver , Slot (y) receiver, and RB.  
 
They should definitely focus on one receiving spot at first and proceed according to his ability to absorb and implement information. 

But - if they can get him versed in a few different spots well enough to have a go-to play at each spot - all having variations that can be called to keep defenses honest, then he's got a great shot at making an impact. Maybe Caldwell will finally find his true OW.

I think we may see him used in a similar way to how the 49ers used Deebo Samuel last year in his rookie season. Find creative ways to get the ball in his hands and let his creativity and toughness shine. I'm massively hyped about Shenault, I think he can give us that extra wrinkle that will make d co-ordinators think twice about how they will play us.

As a whole, I expect our offense to improve from the below average standard that we saw for the most part last year. How much can they improve? That's the big question. How quickly they can grasp Gruden's system will be a big factor. The ceiling is reasonably high, but there are still a lot of things that need to click for that to happen.
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#17

(05-23-2020, 09:45 PM)JagJohn Wrote:
(05-23-2020, 07:51 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: Personally, I'd have him learn a small package of plays at three spots.  Z receiver , Slot (y) receiver, and RB.  
 
They should definitely focus on one receiving spot at first and proceed according to his ability to absorb and implement information. 

But - if they can get him versed in a few different spots well enough to have a go-to play at each spot - all having variations that can be called to keep defenses honest, then he's got a great shot at making an impact. Maybe Caldwell will finally find his true OW.

I think we may see him used in a similar way to how the 49ers used Deebo Samuel last year in his rookie season. Find creative ways to get the ball in his hands and let his creativity and toughness shine. I'm massively hyped about Shenault, I think he can give us that extra wrinkle that will make d co-ordinators think twice about how they will play us.

As a whole, I expect our offense to improve from the below average standard that we saw for the most part last year. How much can they improve? That's the big question. How quickly they can grasp Gruden's system will be a big factor. The ceiling is reasonably high, but there are still a lot of things that need to click for that to happen.

Despite my literal/semi-technical description, the bolded is indeed exactly what I'm advocating.
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#18

(05-23-2020, 07:15 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: Guys we’re not gonna have any problem scoring points and moving the ball.

Chark just came off a Pro Bowl year. Shenault is going to be a nightmare for defenses. The kid have an extra gear and is built like a LB. He’s going to take the top of the defense. Fournette is going to face less and less 8 and 9 man fronts.

Oliver and Eifert will help our TE position be more productive than years past, but don’t count out O’Shegegehegehe

Minshew Mania will be a perfect fit for this Gruden offense. It will be waaaaay better than that Flip guy who had Fournette lead the team in catches.

I hope you are right.  There are some things that support what you are saying here.

Minshew is no longer a rookie.

Chark has developed well.

If they can remain healthy, Eifert and Oliver should make for good targets between the hashes.

But I'm not prepared to say we'll have NO problem scoring points.

Aside from the whole new offense thing, I am not comfortable with our OL, nor am I overly confident that Shenault will have an immediate impact this year.  I think his development could mirror Chark's to a large degree, though his versatility could provide advantages for him.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#19

Shenault will have a lot of games like this:

5 receptions for 75 yards and 1 TD
Punt Ret Yards - 35 yards
Kickoff Ret Yards - 30 yards
1 rush for 12 yards

In other words the kid can flat out fly and he’s built like a Hines Ward. He has another gear on the level of Jimmy Smith and Fred Taylor. He’s not a world class sprinter but he’s the type of dude that was born to play football.

We got super lucky with this kid. I can’t believe he wasn’t taken in the first round. I’m completely in love with him. Straight up stud.
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#20

(05-24-2020, 07:26 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: Shenault will have a lot of games like this:

5 receptions for 75 yards and 1 TD
Punt Ret Yards - 35 yards
Kickoff Ret Yards - 30 yards
1 rush for 12 yards

In other words the kid can flat out fly and he’s built like a Hines Ward. He has another gear on the level of Jimmy Smith and Fred Taylor. He’s not a world class sprinter but he’s the type of dude that was born to play football.

We got super lucky with this kid. I can’t believe he wasn’t taken in the first round. I’m completely in love with him. Straight up stud.

I don't think he's particularly fast. His 40 time is listed at 4.58. I know that sometimes doesn't translate but he is crazy physical. He's definitely not fast in the Fred Taylor mold but has some characteristics in common with Jimmy. I'm hoping he can be another Andre Johnson but only time will tell.
I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.
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