(06-09-2020, 03:57 PM)jagibelieve Wrote:

(06-09-2020, 02:57 PM)TJBender Wrote: I kind of thought one gave up the right to be called "American" when they took up arms against their own country.

Did Crazy Horse or Sitting Bull give up their "right" to be called American when they took up arms against the U.S. military?  Was their fight honorable or treasonous?  Should we remove monuments to them since they took up arms against the U.S.?

Very different scenarios. The Confederate states were very well-established and long-established states of the United States, voluntary parts of it. Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull, and many others in the Indian wars and subsequent Trail of Tears, were part of what had been their own sovereign nations (yes, I know both weren't born until the very tail end of/after Jackson's wars). Those sovereign nations never accepted entry into the US. They just had a bunch of white dudes with big guns show up on horses and say, "Congratulations, you're all Americans! You get to help your fellow countrymen right from the get-go, because we're taking your land. Also, here, have chlamydia, herpes and the common cold."

Let's say the US had fallen to Germany in WWII. Would you (or anyone outside of Germany) have faulted US citizens from fighting back decades after their country had been seized?

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