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Taven Bryan - Another first round bust on this Regime's Resume!

#1

Taven Bryan.  This is the very definition of just a guy.   He has 3 tackles on the year and irrelevant in the passing game.   One more 1st round bust on this Regime's Resume.   I don't see any kind of Spark to show that he is going to develop into a player either.
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#2
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2020, 09:19 PM by NeptuneBeachBum.)

(10-10-2020, 09:16 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: Taven Bryan.  This is the very definition of just a guy.   He has 3 tackles on the year and irrelevant in the passing game.   One more 1st round bust on this Regime's Resume.   I don't see any kind of Spark to show that he is going to develop into a player either.

A bunch of people on this board think Caldwell is not doing a bad job though, and will be back next season.

Laughing
This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.
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#3

(10-10-2020, 09:18 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote:
(10-10-2020, 09:16 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: Taven Bryan.  This is the very definition of just a guy.   He has 3 tackles on the year and irrelevant in the passing game.   One more 1st round bust on this Regime's Resume.   I don't see any kind of Spark to show that he is going to develop into a player either.

A bunch of people on this board think Caldwell is not doing a bad job though, and will be back next season.

Laughing

Probably some of the same ones who were defending Gene Smith and Gus Bradley.
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#4

(10-10-2020, 09:16 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: Taven Bryan.  This is the very definition of just a guy.   He has 3 tackles on the year and irrelevant in the passing game.   One more 1st round bust on this Regime's Resume.   I don't see any kind of Spark to show that he is going to develop into a player either.

TC was put in above him by Khan in 2017.

Was Bryan a TC pick or a Caldwell pick?

I think draft wise Caldwell is okay.  Player retention? 

Big problem.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#5

(10-10-2020, 09:22 PM)Bullseye Wrote:
(10-10-2020, 09:16 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: Taven Bryan.  This is the very definition of just a guy.   He has 3 tackles on the year and irrelevant in the passing game.   One more 1st round bust on this Regime's Resume.   I don't see any kind of Spark to show that he is going to develop into a player either.

TC was put in above him by Khan in 2017.

Was Bryan a TC pick or a Caldwell pick?

I think draft wise Caldwell is okay.  Player retention? 

Big problem.

I would not say Calwell is even ok with Picking players.   He has many more bust the hits.   WIth the firepower that Caldwell had we should be on the KC level of talent.  This team was bad well before Coughlin got here.    I do not want Caldwell making next year's picks.
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#6

Caldwell has done a bad job. After the first game, I was hopeful, but unfortunately that Hope was very misplaced.
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#7

(10-10-2020, 09:22 PM)Bullseye Wrote:
(10-10-2020, 09:16 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: Taven Bryan.  This is the very definition of just a guy.   He has 3 tackles on the year and irrelevant in the passing game.   One more 1st round bust on this Regime's Resume.   I don't see any kind of Spark to show that he is going to develop into a player either.

TC was put in above him by Khan in 2017.

Was Bryan a TC pick or a Caldwell pick?

I think draft wise Caldwell is okay.  Player retention? 

Big problem.

So you're saying we should keep him because you're not sure if it was Caldwell or TC that screwed things up?  Really?  He has gotta go.... this whole culture needs to be blown up and reset immediately after the season.
This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.
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#8

(10-10-2020, 09:30 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote:
(10-10-2020, 09:22 PM)Bullseye Wrote: TC was put in above him by Khan in 2017.

Was Bryan a TC pick or a Caldwell pick?

I think draft wise Caldwell is okay.  Player retention? 

Big problem.

So you're saying we should keep him because you're not sure if it was Caldwell or TC that screwed things up?  Really?  He has gotta go.... this whole culture needs to be blown up and reset immediately after the season.

No, I'm not saying that's why we should keep him.  All I'm saying is I don't know if the picks between '17-'19 are solely attributable to Caldwell or TC, and that includes Chark, Allen and Minshew.  There are arguments for either proposition.

That said, it would not be a surprise to see the entire regime replaced after the season.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#9

(10-10-2020, 09:36 PM)Bullseye Wrote:
(10-10-2020, 09:30 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: So you're saying we should keep him because you're not sure if it was Caldwell or TC that screwed things up?  Really?  He has gotta go.... this whole culture needs to be blown up and reset immediately after the season.

No, I'm not saying that's why we should keep him.  All I'm saying is I don't know if the picks between '17-'19 are solely attributable to Caldwell or TC, and that includes Chark, Allen and Minshew.  There are arguments for either proposition.

That said, it would not be a surprise to see the entire regime replaced after the season.

That's fair.  After 8 years and one winning season, its time for a new regime.
This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.
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#10

If you had a choice right now would you take John Dorsey or Dave Caldwell?
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#11
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2020, 10:00 PM by NeptuneBeachBum.)

(10-10-2020, 09:54 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: If you had a choice right now would you take John Dorsey or Dave Caldwell?

We can do better than Dorsey, but I'd take you and your Lindy's Pro Football Draft Rankings Magazine over Caldwell right now.   Laughing
This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.
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#12
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2020, 10:12 PM by Bullseye.)

(10-10-2020, 09:39 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote:
(10-10-2020, 09:36 PM)Bullseye Wrote: No, I'm not saying that's why we should keep him.  All I'm saying is I don't know if the picks between '17-'19 are solely attributable to Caldwell or TC, and that includes Chark, Allen and Minshew.  There are arguments for either proposition.

That said, it would not be a surprise to see the entire regime replaced after the season.

That's fair.  After 8 years and one winning season, its time for a new regime.

There are reasons I am not as tough on Caldwell as some of you.

Not sure if it was you or someone else, but one of you said the team was bad before TC got here, which is true.

But the team was horrific before Caldwell get here.  Nobody was going to win with that roster for at least two seasons anyway, unless everything was right up to that point..  Given the burn it down to the ground and start from scratch nature of the rebuild Caldwell undertook, and the disaster of the 2013 draft class, and the coaching mistake of Gus Bradley, it got extended for a year.

Bortles is a draft miss, but he still managed to reach the level Brunell did in terms of advancement in the playoffs in a single year and surpassed Garrard's.

Caldwell is the one GM in this team's history to actually draft a Pro Bowl WR.  Caldwell drafted Allen Robinson around the 61st pick in  2014.  TC didn't his first tenure here, and like I said before, it is unclear from the outside whether TC drafted Chark or not.  As an aside, Chark was also picked at the 61st overall pick.  Caldwell has picked two Pro Bowlers in a draft-again in 2014 with Robinson in the 2nd round and Telvin Smith in the 5th round, just like TC picked Kevin Hardy (2nd overall) and Tony Brackens (2nd round) in 1996).

This brings me to another point.  Caldwell has gotten more out of his mid to late round picks than any other GM in team history.  Shack was decent in mid to late round picks.  Gene Smith was abysmal.  TC was just above Gene Smith in that regard.

Bottom line is Caldwell has his flaws, but he has proven adept at finding Pro Bowl level talent, especially at positions this team has found difficulty filling. 

This isn't to say he hasn't made mistakes or that he is flawless.  But I think the more Pro Bowl level talent you can accumulate, the better you will be-IF YOU RETAIN THEM.

But I can easily see your side.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#13

I was just thinking this yesterday dude is invisible on the field. Literally has done nothing since we drafted him.
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#14

(10-10-2020, 10:13 PM)EricC85 Wrote: I was just thinking this yesterday dude is invisible on the field. Literally has done nothing since we drafted him.

Oh he isn't invisible.  Lots of fans here have seen numerous gaffes from him, including numerous instances wheere he couldn't locate the ball carrier.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#15

(10-10-2020, 10:10 PM)Bullseye Wrote:
(10-10-2020, 09:39 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: That's fair.  After 8 years and one winning season, its time for a new regime.

There are reasons I am not as tough on Caldwell as some of you.

Not sure if it was you or someone else, but one of you said the team was bad before TC got here, which is true.

But the team was horrific before Caldwell get here.  Nobody was going to win with that roster for at least two seasons anyway, unless everything was right up to that point..  Given the burn it down to the ground and start from scratch nature of the rebuild Caldwell undertook, and the disaster of the 2013 draft class, and the coaching mistake of Gus Bradley, it got extended for a year.

Bortles is a draft miss, but he still managed to reach the level Brunell did in terms of advancement in the playoffs in a single year and surpassed Garrard's.

Caldwell is the one GM in this team's history to actually draft a Pro Bowl WR.  Caldwell drafted Allen Robinson around the 61st pick in  2014.  TC didn't his first tenure here, and like I said before, it is unclear from the outside whether TC drafted Chark or not.  As an aside, Chark was also picked at the 61st overall pick.  Caldwell has picked two Pro Bowlers in a draft-again in 2014 with Robinson in the 2nd round and Telvin Smith in the 5th round, just like TC picked Kevin Hardy (2nd overall) and Tony Brackens (2nd round) in 1996).

This brings me to another point.  Caldwell has gotten more out of his mid to late round picks than any other GM in team history.  Shack was decent in mid to late round picks.  Gene Smith was abysmal.  TC was just above Gene Smith in that regard.

Bottom line is Caldwell has his flaws, but he has proven adept at finding Pro Bowl level talent, especially at positions this team has found difficulty filling. 

This isn't to say he hasn't made mistakes or that he is flawless.  But I think the more Pro Bowl level talent you can accumulate, the better you will be-IF YOU RETAIN THEM.

But I can easily see your side.

My side is simply WINS.  A GM is paid to to putting a winning product on the field.  My argument is simple, factual, and its in my signature.  He has got to go.
This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.
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#16
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2020, 10:23 PM by jaguarmvp.)

(10-10-2020, 10:10 PM)Bullseye Wrote:
(10-10-2020, 09:39 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: That's fair.  After 8 years and one winning season, its time for a new regime.

There are reasons I am not as tough on Caldwell as some of you.

Not sure if it was you or someone else, but one of you said the team was bad before TC got here, which is true.

But the team was horrific before Caldwell get here.  Nobody was going to win with that roster for at least two seasons anyway, unless everything was right up to that point..  Given the burn it down to the ground and start from scratch nature of the rebuild Caldwell undertook, and the disaster of the 2013 draft class, and the coaching mistake of Gus Bradley, it got extended for a year.

Bortles is a draft miss, but he still managed to reach the level Brunell did in terms of advancement in the playoffs in a single year and surpassed Garrard's.

Caldwell is the one GM in this team's history to actually draft a Pro Bowl WR.  Caldwell drafted Allen Robinson around the 61st pick in  2014.  TC didn't his first tenure here, and like I said before, it is unclear from the outside whether TC drafted Chark or not.  As an aside, Chark was also picked at the 61st overall pick.  Caldwell has picked two Pro Bowlers in a draft-again in 2014 with Robinson in the 2nd round and Telvin Smith in the 5th round, just like TC picked Kevin Hardy (2nd overall) and Tony Brackens (2nd round) in 1996).

This brings me to another point.  Caldwell has gotten more out of his mid to late round picks than any other GM in team history.  Shack was decent in mid to late round picks.  Gene Smith was abysmal.  TC was just above Gene Smith in that regard.

Bottom line is Caldwell has his flaws, but he has proven adept at finding Pro Bowl level talent, especially at positions this team has found difficulty filling. 

This isn't to say he hasn't made mistakes or that he is flawless.  But I think the more Pro Bowl level talent you can accumulate, the better you will be-IF YOU RETAIN THEM.

But I can easily see your side.

I am the one who said the team was bad before TC got here.   Caldwell decided to strip the roster totally bare when he got here.. Caldwell along with Shad kept Bradley around who was not really a HC but a glorified Cheerleader.   Caldwell drafted his QB and outside of one year was a complete Failure.   Caldwell was struggling so bad that Tom was hired in the first place.   Caldwell has many more misses than hits on this resume.  His stradegy is build through the draft but one cannot do that if he is constantly making mistakes.   I do understand that the draft is a crapshoot and some players are just going to bust.  That being said, his bust rate is much too high to "build through the draft."   The guy is a good scout(in the later rounds) but a lousy GM. Lets not even talk about all of the lackluster free agents Caldwell has brought in. Campbell said the reason he came here was because of Coughlin so he don't count.
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#17

(10-10-2020, 10:20 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: I am the one who said the team was bad before TC got here.   Caldwell decided to strip the roster totally bare when he got here.. Caldwell along with Shad kept Bradley around who was not really a HC but a glorified Cheerleader.   Caldwell drafted his QB and outside of one year was a complete Failure.   Caldwell was struggling so bad that Tom was hired in the first place.   Caldwell has many more misses than hits on this resume.  His stradegy is build through the draft but one cannot do that if he is constantly making mistakes.   I do understand that the draft is a crapshoot and some players are just going to bust.  That being said, his bust rate is much too high to "build through the draft."   The guy is a good scout(in the later rounds) but a lousy GM.  Lets not even talk about all of the lackluster free agents Caldwell has brought in.   Campbell said the reason he came here was because of Coughlin so he don't count.

Well said.
This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.
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#18

(10-10-2020, 10:20 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote:
(10-10-2020, 10:10 PM)Bullseye Wrote: There are reasons I am not as tough on Caldwell as some of you.

Not sure if it was you or someone else, but one of you said the team was bad before TC got here, which is true.

But the team was horrific before Caldwell get here.  Nobody was going to win with that roster for at least two seasons anyway, unless everything was right up to that point..  Given the burn it down to the ground and start from scratch nature of the rebuild Caldwell undertook, and the disaster of the 2013 draft class, and the coaching mistake of Gus Bradley, it got extended for a year.

Bortles is a draft miss, but he still managed to reach the level Brunell did in terms of advancement in the playoffs in a single year and surpassed Garrard's.

Caldwell is the one GM in this team's history to actually draft a Pro Bowl WR.  Caldwell drafted Allen Robinson around the 61st pick in  2014.  TC didn't his first tenure here, and like I said before, it is unclear from the outside whether TC drafted Chark or not.  As an aside, Chark was also picked at the 61st overall pick.  Caldwell has picked two Pro Bowlers in a draft-again in 2014 with Robinson in the 2nd round and Telvin Smith in the 5th round, just like TC picked Kevin Hardy (2nd overall) and Tony Brackens (2nd round) in 1996).

This brings me to another point.  Caldwell has gotten more out of his mid to late round picks than any other GM in team history.  Shack was decent in mid to late round picks.  Gene Smith was abysmal.  TC was just above Gene Smith in that regard.

Bottom line is Caldwell has his flaws, but he has proven adept at finding Pro Bowl level talent, especially at positions this team has found difficulty filling. 

This isn't to say he hasn't made mistakes or that he is flawless.  But I think the more Pro Bowl level talent you can accumulate, the better you will be-IF YOU RETAIN THEM.

But I can easily see your side.

I am the one who said the team was bad before TC got here.   Caldwell decided to strip the roster totally bare when he got here.. Caldwell along with Shad kept Bradley around who was not really a HC but a glorified Cheerleader.   Caldwell drafted his QB and outside of one year was a complete Failure.   Caldwell was struggling so bad that Tom was hired in the first place.   Caldwell has many more misses than hits on this resume.  His stradegy is build through the draft but one cannot do that if he is constantly making mistakes.   I do understand that the draft is a crapshoot and some players are just going to bust.  That being said, his bust rate is much too high to "build through the draft."   The guy is a good scout(in the later rounds) but a lousy GM.  Lets not even talk about all of the lackluster free agents Caldwell has brought in.   Campbell said the reason he came here was because of Coughlin so he don't count.
But there was little on the roster worth keeping when he got here.  It was a 2-14 team.  It's not like there were some 6 Pro Bowlers like in Kansas City when Reid took over.  For every Daryl Smith, there were 10-15 players on the roster that would not start on another NFL roster.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#19

(10-10-2020, 10:42 PM)Bullseye Wrote:
(10-10-2020, 10:20 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: I am the one who said the team was bad before TC got here.   Caldwell decided to strip the roster totally bare when he got here.. Caldwell along with Shad kept Bradley around who was not really a HC but a glorified Cheerleader.   Caldwell drafted his QB and outside of one year was a complete Failure.   Caldwell was struggling so bad that Tom was hired in the first place.   Caldwell has many more misses than hits on this resume.  His stradegy is build through the draft but one cannot do that if he is constantly making mistakes.   I do understand that the draft is a crapshoot and some players are just going to bust.  That being said, his bust rate is much too high to "build through the draft."   The guy is a good scout(in the later rounds) but a lousy GM.  Lets not even talk about all of the lackluster free agents Caldwell has brought in.   Campbell said the reason he came here was because of Coughlin so he don't count.
But there was little on the roster worth keeping when he got here.  It was a 2-14 team.  It's not like there were some 6 Pro Bowlers like in Kansas City when Reid took over.  For every Daryl Smith, there were 10-15 players on the roster that would not start on another NFL roster.

I have no problem with him blowing it up.   But then he went 4-12, 3-13, 5-11, 3-13 his first four seasons.  We had a WORSE record in Year 4 than Year 1!!!!  And if you want to give Coughlin the blame for things, then you have to give him credit for the one winning season too.  Look how the Panthers are doing it now.  They blew it up and are very young, but competitive.  We were getting spanked for 4 years straight.  Then Coughlin came, we had ONE good season, and now its back to crap.  A house cleaning is in order.
This is a results-oriented business.  There are no trophies or titles given for "moral victories" or for "winning the draft".  Our record with DC is 37-86.  6-10 is our 2nd best season in 8 years of Caldwell leadership.  These are the FACTS.
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#20

(10-10-2020, 10:58 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote:
(10-10-2020, 10:42 PM)Bullseye Wrote: But there was little on the roster worth keeping when he got here.  It was a 2-14 team.  It's not like there were some 6 Pro Bowlers like in Kansas City when Reid took over.  For every Daryl Smith, there were 10-15 players on the roster that would not start on another NFL roster.

I have no problem with him blowing it up.   But then he went 4-12, 3-13, 5-11, 3-13 his first four seasons.  We had a WORSE record in Year 4 than Year 1!!!!  And if you want to give Coughlin the blame for things, then you have to give him credit for the one winning season too.  Look how the Panthers are doing it now.  They blew it up and are very young, but competitive.  We were getting spanked for 4 years straight.  Then Coughlin came, we had ONE good season, and now its back to crap.  A house cleaning is in order.

This is how I see it.

Caldwell inherited a bad roster, and hired a bad coach in Bradley.  He didn't know Bradley was a bad coach at the time he hired him, and stuck with him because te roster was so bad.

2013 was a bad draft overall, and prolonged the rebuild by a year.

2014 the team drafted well overall.  But the talent infusion was all rookies.  It was going to take a while for them to learn to win, especially with Bortles being a rookie.

2015 the team was sill incomplete, and hindered by tBradley's bad coaching and the injury to Fowler. 

2016, with Bortles and the rest of the 2014 draft class with two years experience under their belt, and the infusion of talent of the 2016 draft, the team, from a roster standpoint, finally had enough talent to show progress and potentially win.  Problem is, Bradley was still the coach.  Talent was no longer an excuse for no progress at that point.  The team underperformed and thy dumped Bradley.  They instlaled Marrone as coach at the end of the year, and the team's performance improved big time the last two games of the year.

2017, TC comes in and puts the inishing touches on the team.  He brings in Campbell and Bouye.  He drafts Fournette.  Fowler is now 2 years removed from his ACL injury.  With the incompetent Bradley gone and the reasonably competent Marrone in as coach.  The team goes to the playoffs for the first time in forever.

2018, the OL suffers injuries no team would reasonably expected to withstand.  The team was down to it's fourth LT by midseason,  The 4th LT was the starting RT for the Giants of the beginning of the season and was a bust for them.  TC was here, yet the team still lost.  The draft-whoever ran it-produced mixed results (Bryan and Chark) overall, but neither did anything as rookies.

2019-TC's last year.  TC Signed Foles, and he gets hurt first game of the season.  Minshew comes in as a rookie and exceeds all reasonable expectations for him.  Ramsey has incident at Houston early in the season.  TC confronts him then Ramsey demands a trade and eventually forces the trade to the Rams.  Later, NFLPA reveals the Jaguars had 25% of all the grievances filed league wide, and they are all related to TC and his antics.  The news creates more embarrassment to the Jaguars, TC gets the blame for the Ramsey trade, and TC is fired before the end of the season. 

Even though TC is present for three of the years of Caldwell's tenure, the team still has losing records in two of the three years here.

As you said...there is credit and blame to be apportioned to TC.

TC provided the team with some credibility with the fans and to some players.  He takes full credit for free agent acquisition like Bouye and Campbell, and Church.  Those guys were instrumental in turning the team around, but a good part of that nucleus of that team was also assembled by Caldwell.

While caldwell coud not attract quality free agents, TC Alienated many of the players here and eventually drove them away.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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