Is it time to question how "great" Brady really is? He's good no question, but now we've seen Mallet, Cassel, Garappolo, Brisset look great in Belichick's system and suck everywhere else (when applicable). Even Garappolo and Brisset are without Gronk.


I'm not questioning he's the best of their qbs, but I do wonder if he could take another team to the SB like Peyton did. I've always thought he was a beneficiary of a good system, there's a LOT of evidence to support that now.

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IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS

Is it time to question how "great" Brady really is? He's good no question, but now we've seen Mallet, Cassel, Garappolo, Brisset look great in Belichick's system and suck everywhere else (when applicable). Even Garappolo and Brisset are without Gronk.


I'm not questioning he's the best of their qbs, but I do wonder if he could take another team to the SB like Peyton did. I've always thought he was a beneficiary of a good system, there's a LOT of evidence to support that now.

 

I dunno. I think they put up 50 last night with Brady at the helm.

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I dunno. I think they put up 50 last night with Brady at the helm.

this, everyone mentions what they did with Cassell but they still won 5 less games the year Brady was out

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Im not denying Brady is the best of the group that's played for him. I'm just saying maybe he's not QUITE as good as people want to make him. He owes a ton of his success to Belichick.

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IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS

Im not denying Brady is the best of the group that's played for him. I'm just saying maybe he's not QUITE as good as people want to make him. He owes a ton of his success to Belichick.

 

I don't think anybody is going to argue that the Patriot's "system" isn't responsible for the sustained success of the franchise. Heck, look at the Spurs in basketball, it's the same thing. But it is amazing watching them play. I didn't see Watt or Clowney even get close to the QB last night. Did Clowney even play? That is brilliant coaching not only coaching to your teams strength and weaknesses, but more importantly the other teams.

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Brady has surely been helped by the system and benefitted greatly, still that wouldn't make me question how "great" he is at all. I think the biggest advantage was to find himself in that system to start with, but he took it from there and developed into what he is now. I'm confident he'd b every good in another competent offense. 

 

That final drive against Seattle in the superbowl with 8 straight completions till the TD was a thing of beauty and he's done that over and over again. Even last playoff against Denver when he was brutally beaten up with no Oline he threw more than 300 yards and came a 2 points conversion away from overtime. A great player in a great system if you ask me.

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Montana was coached by Bill Walsh, so no much of a drop off if any

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Is Drew Brees legacy tainted because of the system he plays in? No. It's just a matter of a great QB playing in a great system.

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

Belichick didn't win 4 Super Bowls with Mallet, Cassel, Garappolo or Brisset.

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Damn good team, a 10 win team every year without GQ QB, but...

 

Just watch the man play.  He's good.  He doesn't make the Super Bowl on OUR team, but he's still good.

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Greatest of all time.

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He is not a system QB. That's laughable. He is one of the best to ever play and you can see that by watching him play.


I didn't watch the game last night but Brisset threw for what just over 100 yards and no TDs? Brady would have put 40+ up on the Texans last night.

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So Belichick has a "system" now? What is it; "Coach your ### off and make damn sure your players and staff are prepared for the next opponent"?

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I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

So Belichick has a "system" now? What is it; "Coach your ### off and make damn sure your players and staff are prepared for the next opponent"?

Well just looking at how easily he replaces his coordinators and continues his offense and defense without missing a beat while the coordinators who go on to leave fail miserably on their new teams....He has a system.

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

IMO,  Tom Brady is definitely a top 10 all-time QB.   However,  Bill Belichick is making a strong case in being the best NFL HC of all-time.  Belichick is definitely in the conversation with Paul Brown,  Vince Lombardi,  Joe Gibbs,  Don Shula, Bill Walsh,  and Tom Landry.

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Well just looking at how easily he replaces his coordinators and continues his offense and defense without missing a beat while the coordinators who go on to leave fail miserably on their new teams....He has a system.

 

I agree with you, but I was trying to distinguish that his system lies more in the idea of how he prepares, organizes and coaches the team rather than which plays / formations / groupings that he fields.

 

His strength is the week before the game, a lot of his opponents' strength is on gameday.

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I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

Tom Brady: Elite QB

Bill Belichick: Elite Coach


Tom Brady + Bill Belichick = nearly unstoppable

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Tom Brady: Elite QB

Bill Belichick: Elite Coach


Tom Brady + Bill Belichick = nearly unstoppable

 

I believe they average around 12 wins per season together,   which is the closest thing to nearly unstoppable the NFL has seen in a very long time. 

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IMO,  Tom Brady is definitely a top 10 all-time QB.   However,  Bill Belichick is making a strong case in being the best NFL HC of all-time.  Belichick is definitely in the conversation with Paul Brown,  Vince Lombardi,  Joe Gibbs,  Don Shula, Bill Walsh,  and Tom Landry.

 

I mostly agree with you.  I don't know if Tom Brady is a top 10 all time, but he certainly is up there.  Think of Johnny Unitas or Bart Starr.  Top 10 in the modern era certainly, but "all time" is a bit much in my opinion.

 

Regarding the coaches, without question Bellichick needs to be in the conversation.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

I mostly agree with you.  I don't know if Tom Brady is a top 10 all time, but he certainly is up there.  Think of Johnny Unitas or Bart Starr.  Top 10 in the modern era certainly, but "all time" is a bit much in my opinion.

 

Regarding the coaches, without question Bellichick needs to be in the conversation.

 

  In the spring of 2015,  there was a discussion here on the Forum about the best QBs of all time.

 

  https://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/to...3?hl=baugh

 

  In that thread,   I put Tom Brady at # 9.    It's hard to differentiate between all of these great QBs though.   The top 3 on my list are QBs that played a long time ago:  Sammy Baugh,  Otto Graham,  and Johnny Unitas.    As good as Bart Starr was,   my gut feeling is the Packers coaching and Starr's excellent supporting cast on both sides of the ball probably enhanced his play more than the typical great QB even benefited from.   Of all of the Packers QBs,   I truly believe Aaron Rodgers is the best one yet based on his play through this point of his career.   Even if Rodgers is in the declining stage  ( I'm certainly not writing him off by any means  ),   what he accomplished already warrants HOF induction soon after he's eligible. 

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