Heck I am in favor of Lot J, improving the stadium BUT...it only works for me if the Jaguars are here. No extension no dollars. Why would they not extend?

Lamping said that an extension would require approval of the rest of the owners, and (he said) the rest of the owners would not approve unless there were substantial improvements to the stadium.  So he sort of deflected blame to the rest of the owners.  

I would start with these questions:

What improvements would need to be made?
How much would it cost?
When would the improvements need to be made? 
What would be the purpose of the proposed improvements?
If the city makes a commitment to making the proposed improvements, would the Jaguars sign a lease extension?  
If the city makes the proposed improvements, would the Jaguars commit to playing all their home games in Jacksonville? 
What is the economic effect on the city of having the Jaguars in Jacksonville?
What would be the economic effect on the city if the Jaguars leave Jacksonville? 

If improvements are made to the stadium for the purpose of increasing the Jaguars' revenue, can Jacksonville support that increase in revenue?  For example, if the idea is to add more sky boxes, can Jacksonville actually fill those sky boxes? 

Teams build these fancy stadiums and make these improvements in order to increase their revenue streams.  So the biggest question I would have is, can a city like Jacksonville actually support such a revenue stream?   Would there be enough corporate demand for suites, would there be enough people with deep pockets and the desire to go to a game and pay ultra-premium prices for tickets?  

Is Jacksonville big enough and rich enough to support this growing monster that is The NFL?

NFL owners share TV revenue equally, and a percentage of the ticket sales goes to the visiting team.  Then, a percentage of all revenues goes to the players.  So a city needs to pull its weight, revenue wise, or the other NFL owners will want that team to move to a city where the revenues are greater.  Because part of those revenues belong to the other owners.  

For example, the Cowboys generate huge revenues, way more than the Jaguars.  And they draw huge TV viewership, also way more than the Jaguars, which impacts the size of the TV contract, which, again, is shared equally.  

So Jerry Jones, justifiably, says, "Why am I subsidizing the NFL in Jacksonville?  It's nothing but corporate welfare, where the rich support the poor.  The Jaguars need to move to a city that is able to pull its weight financially."  

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Winning solves everything. A team doesn't have to be a perennial playoff contender, just play competitively on a consistent level. Corporate sponsors and wealthy individuals do not want to wine and dine prospective clients, employees, family and friends at a venue with a team so bad that not only are they expected to lose, but do so in grand fashion. An atmosphere of utter defeat is not conducive to deal-making and entertainment. Especially when it's so bad even the hoi polloi is largely absent.

Khan is not in control of the NFL or the city, but if he truly wishes to stay in Jacksonville then he needs to change the thing in which he does have control - the franchise. Change the franchise and everything else will fall into place.

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Winning solves everything. A team doesn't have to be a perennial playoff contender, just play competitively on a consistent level. Corporate sponsors and wealthy individuals do not want to wine and dine prospective clients, employees, family and friends at a venue with a team so bad that not only are they expected to lose, but do so in grand fashion. An atmosphere of utter defeat is not conducive to deal-making and entertainment. Especially when it's so bad even the hoi polloi is largely absent.

Khan is not in control of the NFL or the city, but if he truly wishes to stay in Jacksonville then he needs to change the thing in which he does have control - the franchise. Change the franchise and everything else will fall into place.

I agree if your point is that the state of this team is crippling our ability to keep the team in Jacksonville.

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Heck I am in favor of Lot J, improving the stadium BUT...it only works for me if the Jaguars are here. No extension no dollars. Why would they not extend?

So Jerry Jones, justifiably, says, "Why am I subsidizing the NFL in Jacksonville?  It's nothing but corporate welfare, where the rich support the poor.  The Jaguars need to move to a city that is able to pull its weight financially."  

Back in the day, the league founders decided on revenue sharing because they believed that the health of the league benefited each team. It's part of what helped the NFL grow into the monster it's became. When owners like Jones and Daniel Snyder came along, they started to change the equation by prioritizing their individual franchises over the league in general. It shifted the paradigm of the teams off the field from partners to competitors. I guess whether that was a good shift or not depends on which franchise you own but it definitely put stress on the smaller market teams.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

Winning solves everything. A team doesn't have to be a perennial playoff contender, just play competitively on a consistent level. Corporate sponsors and wealthy individuals do not want to wine and dine prospective clients, employees, family and friends at a venue with a team so bad that not only are they expected to lose, but do so in grand fashion. An atmosphere of utter defeat is not conducive to deal-making and entertainment. Especially when it's so bad even the hoi polloi is largely absent.

Khan is not in control of the NFL or the city, but if he truly wishes to stay in Jacksonville then he needs to change the thing in which he does have control - the franchise. Change the franchise and everything else will fall into place.

I agree if your point is that the state of this team is crippling our ability to keep the team in Jacksonville.

What other point would I be making? The ability to play competitively on a consistent level affects every aspect of the franchise from the league, to the city of location, to the fans. No wins, no fans. No fans, no support. No support, it's gone.

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I never thought I would say it but I don’t care. Kahn has one foot out the door regardless of what he or Lamping says. Recall last year when Lamping told us Jacksonville cannot not support a NFL franchise even if they were winning, then a few months later a second game was scheduled in London. This was followed by the second major gutting of the team in 10 years and more empty promises.

I have endured the losing, heat, the cold and was one of the few there as a tropical storm was drenching us with buckets of rain. Mixed messages from an owner with no ties to the city with his hand out and no guarantees is too much. If they stay great! If they go, the beach and river are still there and I’ll fish a few more Sunday’s a year.

---

Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

I really like having a hometown team and wish it would stay here. Get the team winning and better things happen.

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It's funny how the NFL leaves horribly outdated stadiums like Lambeau and Heinz field alone when it comes to new stadium pushes.

Curious if Buffalo is feeling the same pressure...

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Wasn’t Heinz field built in the early 2000’s?

Yes, everyone knows StroudCrowd1 is a Hunts fan and will do anything possible to undermine the Heinz brand.  Speaking of which, Kraft bought Heinz, moved the Heinz operations out of Pittsburgh (to Chicago) and will no longer be the sponsor name on the Steelers stadium.  

Ok, back on topic, the oldest to newest (through Heinz) is listed below ....

Lambeau Field (1957), Green Bay Packers
Arrowhead Stadium (1972), Kansas City Chiefs
New Era Field (1973), Buffalo Bills
Mercedes-Benz Superdome (1975), New Orleans Saints.
Hard Rock Stadium (1987), Miami Dolphins.
EverBank Field (1995), Jacksonville Jaguars.
Bank of America Stadium (1996), Carolina Panthers
FedEx Field (1997), Washington Redskins.
M&T Bank Stadium (1998), Baltimore Ravens
Raymond James Stadium (1998), Tampa Bay Buccaneers
FirstEnergy Stadium (1999), Cleveland Browns
Nissan Stadium (1999), Tennessee Titans
Paul Brown Stadium (2000), Cincinnati Bengals.
Heinz Field (2001), Pittsburgh Steelers.

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Winning solves everything. A team doesn't have to be a perennial playoff contender, just play competitively on a consistent level. Corporate sponsors and wealthy individuals do not want to wine and dine prospective clients, employees, family and friends at a venue with a team so bad that not only are they expected to lose, but do so in grand fashion. An atmosphere of utter defeat is not conducive to deal-making and entertainment. Especially when it's so bad even the hoi polloi is largely absent.

Khan is not in control of the NFL or the city, but if he truly wishes to stay in Jacksonville then he needs to change the thing in which he does have control - the franchise. Change the franchise and everything else will fall into place.

Yep.  If we win 8 games per year on the average we'd have no problem with fan attendance as we'd be in the playoff run each year.   What sucks is that when we were good, we were competing against Manning and the Colts so losing 5 games meant there was no way we could win the division.  Wish we could reverse history and to have sucked then and were good now when our divisional competition is pretty average.

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Interesting. Do corporate boxes and premium areas bring in more revenue than general ticket sales? Honest question. I would think a big increase in ticket sales for a covered stadium would be the largest revenue generator.

I don't know this for certain but I would guess the premium areas/services bring in more money. This includes the suites which are big revenue generators.

I imagine it’s just like planes where first class generates half the revenue.

On the stadium issue, we knew this was coming. We were the second oldest stadium without a major renovation according to Lambert years ago. If it wasn’t for COVID I think we would likely be talking about losing the team now. But COVID basically put the kibosh on that for at least a couple years. I mean we were talking two London games not that long ago. 

If I was the city I would not cave on anything major. The tea leaves say the plan is still to move in several years, just waiting for ol London to open back up for business.

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Yes, it's improvement, but it's Blaine Gabbert 2012 level improvement. - Pirkster

http://youtu.be/ouGM3NWpjxk The Home Hypnotist!

http://youtu.be/XQRFkn0Ly3A Media on the Brain Link!
 

Peyton must store oxygen in that forehead of his. No way I'd still be alive after all that choking.

 

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/...400288002/

Stadium upgrade for 6 home games? We had a good run...

Well, we knew this was going to come up at some point. Depending on what they mean by "upgrades", it's going to be a very hard sell given the team's on the field performance since SK took over. The bottom line is that teams don't relocate due to attendance or fan support, they relocate because of stadium issues.

Thank you.

They don't even relocate due to poor on field performance.

It took the Steelers 40 years to have a winning season and make the playoffs.  The city built 3 rivers stadium despite that, and the team has been winning since.

The Lions have one exactly one playoff game since 1957, and they built the Silverdome and then Ford Field.

Conversely, the Rams, Colts, raiders, and browns all won championships at one point in their histories.  Their cities did not provide new stadiums when needed.  Their teams moved.

I always HATE when this subject comes up.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

That's the point isn't it? That we all know this is the beginning of the move unless the city give the franchise what they want.

I seem to remember someone mentioning there's a penalty if the franchise leaves before a certain year. Does anyone else remember what that was? I think it had something to do with the London games but not sure.

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Well, we knew this was going to come up at some point. Depending on what they mean by "upgrades", it's going to be a very hard sell given the team's on the field performance since SK took over. The bottom line is that teams don't relocate due to attendance or fan support, they relocate because of stadium issues.

Thank you.

They don't even relocate due to poor on field performance.

It took the Steelers 40 years to have a winning season and make the playoffs.  The city built 3 rivers stadium despite that, and the team has been winning since.

The Lions have one exactly one playoff game since 1957, and they built the Silverdome and then Ford Field.

Conversely, the Rams, Colts, raiders, and browns all won championships at one point in their histories.  Their cities did not provide new stadiums when needed.  Their teams moved.

Genuine question: What was the condition of those stadiums as compared to the current condition of TIAA? If I remember correctly, the teams were complaining about outdated and non-functional infrastructure. Our stadium, while still an outdated style of bowl, has pretty decent facilities. 

It's my opinion that the league is tired of seeing so many empty seats at Jaguars home games. Bad product on the field coupled with hell-like sun and heat on the side of the stadium which is televised does not look good for the Jags or the league. 

If not only for the league, but for the sake of the fans, a stadium upgrade is needed.

---

Thank you.

They don't even relocate due to poor on field performance.

It took the Steelers 40 years to have a winning season and make the playoffs.  The city built 3 rivers stadium despite that, and the team has been winning since.

The Lions have one exactly one playoff game since 1957, and they built the Silverdome and then Ford Field.

Conversely, the Rams, Colts, raiders, and browns all won championships at one point in their histories.  Their cities did not provide new stadiums when needed.  Their teams moved.

Genuine question: What was the condition of those stadiums as compared to the current condition of TIAA? If I remember correctly, the teams were complaining about outdated and non-functional infrastructure. Our stadium, while still an outdated style of bowl, has pretty decent facilities. 

It's my opinion that the league is tired of seeing so many empty seats at Jaguars home games. Bad product on the field coupled with hell-like sun and heat on the side of the stadium which is televised does not look good for the Jags or the league. 

If not only for the league, but for the sake of the fans, a stadium upgrade is needed.

Quite a few teams had tons of empty seats, pre-Covid. It’s not just a Jax problem

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Genuine question: What was the condition of those stadiums as compared to the current condition of TIAA? If I remember correctly, the teams were complaining about outdated and non-functional infrastructure. Our stadium, while still an outdated style of bowl, has pretty decent facilities. 

It's my opinion that the league is tired of seeing so many empty seats at Jaguars home games. Bad product on the field coupled with hell-like sun and heat on the side of the stadium which is televised does not look good for the Jags or the league. 

If not only for the league, but for the sake of the fans, a stadium upgrade is needed.

Quite a few teams had tons of empty seats, pre-Covid. It’s not just a Jax problem

So what’s so bad about our stadium that people are speculating about a league ultimatum? I feel like this discussion is going in circles.

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The NFL must not know about Lot J --- that's a game changer that will likely land us a Super Bowl on a 5 year rotation

---

Thank you.

They don't even relocate due to poor on field performance.

It took the Steelers 40 years to have a winning season and make the playoffs.  The city built 3 rivers stadium despite that, and the team has been winning since.

The Lions have one exactly one playoff game since 1957, and they built the Silverdome and then Ford Field.

Conversely, the Rams, Colts, raiders, and browns all won championships at one point in their histories.  Their cities did not provide new stadiums when needed.  Their teams moved.

Genuine question: What was the condition of those stadiums as compared to the current condition of TIAA? If I remember correctly, the teams were complaining about outdated and non-functional infrastructure. Our stadium, while still an outdated style of bowl, has pretty decent facilities. 

It's my opinion that the league is tired of seeing so many empty seats at Jaguars home games. Bad product on the field coupled with hell-like sun and heat on the side of the stadium which is televised does not look good for the Jags or the league. 

If not only for the league, but for the sake of the fans, a stadium upgrade is needed.

I'm glad you asked.

The general lifespan for NFL stadium before replacement has been about 25-30 years.

Atlanta constructed the Georgia Dome in 1992.  They replaced it with Mercedes Benz stadium in 2017.  That's 25 years.

Cardinals first had Busch stadium built in St. Louis in 1966.  They relocated to Arizona in  in 1988.  22 years.  Played in Sun Devil Stadium from 1988-

Colts (Baltimore)-Played in Memorial stadium, which was built in 1953.  The Colts wanted a stadium prior to moving (remember Colts Faver circa 1979?).  Colts finally moved to Indy in 1984.  Age of stadium when Colts moved?  31 years old.  Colts moved to the RCA dome in 1984.  Built current Lucas Oil Field in 2008.  Age of RCA Dome at replacement:  24 years old.

Chicago-plays in Soldier Field, which opene in 1924, with major renovation in 2003.

Bengals-Riverfront stadium opened 1970.  Bengals moved to Paul Brown stadium in 2000.  Age of Riverfront stadium when replaced:  30 years old.

Browns played in Cleveland Municipal, which opened in 1923, with major renovation done in 1976.  Browns moved to Baltimore in 1996 after years wanting a new stadium.  Age at replacement from original construction:  73 years.  From renovation:  19 years.

Cowboys played in Texas Stadium, which opened in 1971.  Moved to AT&T field in 2009.  Age at replacement:  38

Broncos played in Mile High Stadium, which opened in 1948.  Moved to their current stadium in 2002.  Age at replacement:  54.  But the Broncos were not founded until 1960, so they played in Mile high 42 years.

The Lions played in the Silverdome, which opened in 1975, and moved into Ford Field in 2002.  Age at replacement:  27 years.

Houston-built the Astrodome in 1966.  Oilers made noise about moving in the early to mid 1980s, and finally relocated in 1997.  Age of stadium when abandoned by Oilers:  31 years old.


Arrowhead stadium opened in 1972-Chiefs are still there, but they have had major renovations to the stadium in 1991, 1994, 2007-2010.  Age at first renovation:  19

Rams played in Anaheim in Anaheam Stadium, which was built in 1966.  They played there from 1980-1994.  Age of stadium when Rams left:  28 years old.

raiders have moved back several times.  Oakland Alameida Coliseum was built in 1966.  The Raiders moved to Los Angeles in 1984 in search of a better stadium situation.  Stadium age at first relocation:  18 years.  They played in the LA Coliseum unti moving back to Oakland Alameida County Coliseum in 1995, where they stayed another 25 years until moving to Las Las Vegas this year, but have been angling for a new stadium forever.

Minnesota opened the Metrodome in 1982, and moved to their current stadium in 2015.  Age at replacement:  33 years old.

The Giants and Jets played in Giants' stadium, which opened in 1976 and played there until 2009.  In 2010, they started playing in Met Life stadium.  Age at replacement:  33 years old.


Saints have played in the Superdome since 1975, and were angling for stadium improvements dating back to the 1980s when they, too, openly discussed moving here.  They are currently undergoing a 4 year $450 million renovation project.


Eagles played at Veterans stadium, which opened in 1971 until 2004.  Age at replacement:  33 years.

Steelers played at Three Rivers Stadium which opened 1970 until 2000.  In 2001, they moved to their current stadium.  Age at replacement:  30 years.

49ers played in Candlestick Park, which opened 1960 until 2014 when they moved to Levi Stadium.  age at replacement:  54 years.  However they had been trying to get a new stadium built for years before.

The Washington Football team played in RFK stadium, which opened in 1961, and played there until 1996.  Age at replacement:  35.

Our stadium is currently 26 years old.  By 2030, it will be 35 years old.

The team requiring a new stadium during this time frame isn't out of line with the overwhelming majority of teams in the league.

Sources:  Munsey & Suppes   http://football.ballparks.com/   , Google

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Thanks Bullseye. This may seem out there but NFL has a big looming problem. Millennial generation isn't as die hard for the NFL as the previous generations. Gen Z is not as interested. There are outliers but the current model is COVID damaged but is going to see revenue issues covered up by it. Dallas is vacuum cleaning up relocating people here but I dont think they can keep up their revenue growth. The Star in Frisco TX is ridiculously over priced. Jacksonville is a bargain overall. Honeatly if the team moves, it isn't going to play out like the league hopes.

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The Khan Years

Patience, Persistence, and Piss Poor General Managers.

Genuine question: What was the condition of those stadiums as compared to the current condition of TIAA? If I remember correctly, the teams were complaining about outdated and non-functional infrastructure. Our stadium, while still an outdated style of bowl, has pretty decent facilities. 

It's my opinion that the league is tired of seeing so many empty seats at Jaguars home games. Bad product on the field coupled with hell-like sun and heat on the side of the stadium which is televised does not look good for the Jags or the league. 

If not only for the league, but for the sake of the fans, a stadium upgrade is needed.

I'm glad you asked.

The general lifespan for NFL stadium before replacement has been about 25-30 years.

Atlanta constructed the Georgia Dome in 1992.  They replaced it with Mercedes Benz stadium in 2017.  That's 25 years.

Cardinals first had Busch stadium built in St. Louis in 1966.  They relocated to Arizona in  in 1988.  22 years.  Played in Sun Devil Stadium from 1988-

Colts (Baltimore)-Played in Memorial stadium, which was built in 1953.  The Colts wanted a stadium prior to moving (remember Colts Faver circa 1979?).  Colts finally moved to Indy in 1984.  Age of stadium when Colts moved?  31 years old.  Colts moved to the RCA dome in 1984.  Built current Lucas Oil Field in 2008.  Age of RCA Dome at replacement:  24 years old.

Chicago-plays in Soldier Field, which opene in 1924, with major renovation in 2003.

Bengals-Riverfront stadium opened 1970.  Bengals moved to Paul Brown stadium in 2000.  Age of Riverfront stadium when replaced:  30 years old.

Browns played in Cleveland Municipal, which opened in 1923, with major renovation done in 1976.  Browns moved to Baltimore in 1996 after years wanting a new stadium.  Age at replacement from original construction:  73 years.  From renovation:  19 years.

Cowboys played in Texas Stadium, which opened in 1971.  Moved to AT&T field in 2009.  Age at replacement:  38

Broncos played in Mile High Stadium, which opened in 1948.  Moved to their current stadium in 2002.  Age at replacement:  54.  But the Broncos were not founded until 1960, so they played in Mile high 42 years.

The Lions played in the Silverdome, which opened in 1975, and moved into Ford Field in 2002.  Age at replacement:  27 years.

Houston-built the Astrodome in 1966.  Oilers made noise about moving in the early to mid 1980s, and finally relocated in 1997.  Age of stadium when abandoned by Oilers:  31 years old.


Arrowhead stadium opened in 1972-Chiefs are still there, but they have had major renovations to the stadium in 1991, 1994, 2007-2010.  Age at first renovation:  19

Rams played in Anaheim in Anaheam Stadium, which was built in 1966.  They played there from 1980-1994.  Age of stadium when Rams left:  28 years old.

raiders have moved back several times.  Oakland Alameida Coliseum was built in 1966.  The Raiders moved to Los Angeles in 1984 in search of a better stadium situation.  Stadium age at first relocation:  18 years.  They played in the LA Coliseum unti moving back to Oakland Alameida County Coliseum in 1995, where they stayed another 25 years until moving to Las Las Vegas this year, but have been angling for a new stadium forever.

Minnesota opened the Metrodome in 1982, and moved to their current stadium in 2015.  Age at replacement:  33 years old.

The Giants and Jets played in Giants' stadium, which opened in 1976 and played there until 2009.  In 2010, they started playing in Met Life stadium.  Age at replacement:  33 years old.


Saints have played in the Superdome since 1975, and were angling for stadium improvements dating back to the 1980s when they, too, openly discussed moving here.  They are currently undergoing a 4 year $450 million renovation project.


Eagles played at Veterans stadium, which opened in 1971 until 2004.  Age at replacement:  33 years.

Steelers played at Three Rivers Stadium which opened 1970 until 2000.  In 2001, they moved to their current stadium.  Age at replacement:  30 years.

49ers played in Candlestick Park, which opened 1960 until 2014 when they moved to Levi Stadium.  age at replacement:  54 years.  However they had been trying to get a new stadium built for years before.

The Washington Football team played in RFK stadium, which opened in 1961, and played there until 1996.  Age at replacement:  35.

Our stadium is currently 26 years old.  By 2030, it will be 35 years old.

The team requiring a new stadium during this time frame isn't out of line with the overwhelming majority of teams in the league.

Sources:  Munsey & Suppes   http://football.ballparks.com/   , Google

Thank you for this post!

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Thanks Bullseye. This may seem out there but NFL has a big looming problem. Millennial generation isn't as die hard for the NFL as the previous generations.  Gen Z is not as interested.  There are outliers but the current model is COVID damaged but is going to see revenue issues covered up by it. Dallas is vacuum cleaning up relocating people here but I dont think they can keep up their revenue growth. The Star in Frisco TX is ridiculously over priced.  Jacksonville is a bargain overall. Honeatly if the team moves, it isn't going to play out like the league hopes.

Perhaps it is the NFL homer in me talking, but I don't necessarily see the drop in popularity.

I agree that the NFL may price younger generations from attending the games live, but NFL football is largely a TV sport anyway.  That's how most fans enjoy the game.

With that said, outside of this year, the NFL's TV ratings have been strong as ever.

The wildcard to me is how this Covid 19 will be handled, and what will be the shorter and longer term effects.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Keep in mind, some of the teams that had a little longer than average times in stadiums were higher recenue teams like Dallas, Chicago and the New York teams. Then there's the Packers, who I did not address, who are the one publicly owned team. The California teams mostly all suffered due to the state's budget crunch, which long hindered the state from funding new stadiums.

I also forgot Seattl, which opened the Kingdome in 1976 which hosted the Seahawks until 2001. Age at replacement: 25 years.

Buffalo has played in their current stadium since the 70s, and are currently in the same position we are in. Their owners have been asking for a stadium upgrade.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!