(01-15-2021, 11:48 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote:

(01-15-2021, 04:45 AM)Jagsfan4life9/28/82 Wrote: Did you even look up palingenetic ultranationalism?  If not, please do so, then explain to me how it differs from Trumpism. Really,  in any way? I will admit, you're not totally incorrect, as the left promising the voters a brighter future falls well into this sphere,  as well.

I don't remember it if that was something I studied in college. Had to do a quick Wiki search. Not sure why you think that's a solid rebuttal to my argument. I have conceded that Trumpism is a nationalist movement, which in and of itself is not bad. It's only the abuse of authoritarianism that makes a nationalist movement dangerous. I don't know if I have mentioned it on this board or not, but I could easily see the Trump movement descending into fascism, under the right circumstances. However, those factors just aren't present in this nation at the moment. 

Germany was facing some of the same struggles as the US (but on a much, much greater level). Economic downturn followed by a loss of jobs, brought about by sanctions imposed by foreign nations. These factors were compounded by a communist movement that was looking to remove German identity so they could replace it with their own ideology. Communists were burning national monuments and rioting in the street. This movement created the base that supported Hitler. They needed a person who would stand up to the foreign nations and face the communists that were trying to tear Germany apart. The same factors are present, more or less, in modern day America, with a few MAJOR exceptions. 

Trump hasn't used any authoritarian means to address the "threat" that his base feels is subverting the nation, and he has no backing from the media, military, or corporate institutions to control the narrative he is putting forth. And, most importantly, he hasn't tried to silence the democratic party. If Trump had gained that backing and used a military coup to attack his detractors and silence them, we would be living in a fascist government. But he didn't. That said, I do think there would be a significant amount of his supporters that would either condone or be sympathetic to Trump if he carried out an authoritative action in pursuit of pushing back against the progressive movement in this country, which is scary. 

I started to go into an in-depth discussion of NAZI Germany, but I don't have time to sit here and write a giant history lesson. The left in this country are far more like NAZI Germany, because they married to corporate America, have complete control of the narrative, and are taking actions to become a single party state. The sole exception is that they aren't nationalists. So,  you can talk about palngenetic ultranationalism all  you want. It doesn't change what I said. One side is significantly more authoritarian, and it ain't the right.

Some of what you said there is true.  

Something you left out of that history is that the fascists in Germany in the 1920s and 1930s made great use of a huge lie that was going around a sizeable portion of the German populace at the time.  They adopted it, they promoted it, and they leveraged it to gain power.  And that big lie was, that they weren't losing when WW1 ended.  The big lie was that they were actually winning WW1 when they were "sold out" and stabbed in the back by Jews and communists in the government.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth

Trumpism is doing a similar thing right now, with their own big lie, and that is, that Trump didn't lose the election, that the other side cheated.  

Another similarity is that apparently a lot of the more extreme Trump supporters would love to have an open battle, shooting and all, with the left.  We read and see it constantly.  It comes from right wing militias, "Proud Boys," and white nationalists, who would love nothing better than to provoke open warfare in the streets.   That's would be just like late 1920s and early 1930s Germany, with the fascists fighting street battles with the communists.    


I don't think it's going to happen here yet, but there are some echoes of 1920s Germany here in the US.  What really led to the rise of the Nazis in Germany was the Great Depression.  If we have a massive economic failure here, brought about by the pandemic and seemingly unlimited government spending, we could see a real rise in fascism here.  There was incredible inflation in Weimar Germany.  Over the last 4 years under Trump, we have seen a huge increase in the national debt, and there is a lot of speculation that that could lead to a lot of inflation in the US in the future.  

Overall, I don't think Trumpism = fascism, because we don't have the conditions here in the US for the rise of fascist movement, yet.  Trumpism smells like fascism, with the national savior myth, the strong man, the nationalism, and racism, but as some have correctly pointed out to me, it doesn't really meet the definition of fascism.  

I don't recall off the top of my head if the Nazis ever carried out an open, physical attack on the representative branch of the German government, in an effort to shut it down, like (some) Trump supporters just did.

---