(02-11-2021, 09:07 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote:

(02-11-2021, 07:55 AM)mikesez Wrote: You didn't do what I asked.
I don't care how likely you think it is that Pence or Miller did something Trump didn't want them to do.
I asked you, and any other Trumper, if it was proven that Trump didn't want to call the NG and someone else did it for him, would you finally agree with me, that the Senate should convict and Trump should never hold office again?

Sure. If it was proven that Trump wanted to let the Capitol be destroyed, you guys can impeach the guy that was already removed from office. Now you go. If they fail to prove that Trump wouldn't authorize the use of the national guard, you gonna admit this is a stupid waste of time? Go one further for me, just for [BLEEP] and giggles. If they prove that Trump authorized the NG and was actively trying to figure out why they weren't deploying, are you going to admit that the new sources you frequent are a bunch of lying hacks with a very partisan agenda? Will you be capable of carrying that knowledge forward in a way that makes your arguments less [BLEEP]? 

As to the impeachment itself, not sure it's unconstitutional. I think if a crime were egregious enough, you could do it to make a statement, especially if proceeding began before they left office. However, I don't think any of this is being done for that reason. It's theatrics. It's being done because they hate the man. Impeachment and removal was always their goal (which is easy enough to prove), and they can spin this enough to make it seem like they were justified in hating him. Don't think you're going to get any evidence of anything. But, sure... have your fantasy.

OK I missed this post.
Thank you for answering the question, sort of.
You phrased it a bit more strongly than I would.  The point of this insurrection wasn't to destroy a building, it was to take over the building and create enough chaos that Congress couldn't meet for at least 2 weeks. Maybe capture some members of Congress and hold them hostage to make sure.  They got really close to that, even though they got no where close to destroying the building.  You'd take this more seriously if you realized how little effort it can take to overthrow a government and how close they came.

To your first question, no impeachment proceeding is a waste of the Senate's time.  If the house brings an impeachment, you have to follow the Constitution and hear it.  I suppose you could argue that the House was wasting its own time if the evidence you mention exists. I tend to agree that the House should know the answer to who called the NG and when. I think they should be telling us the answer if it supports their case.  And they shouldn't have brought the case if the answer was unfavorable to their case. At the moment it appears that they don't know the answer for sure. That's tragic. They should call Christopher Miller as a witness and ask him. I certainly think the House Democrats are focusing a lot on irrelevant or unprovable aspects of the situation.
But based on the timeline of Trump's tweets and the TV broadcasts were know he was watching, my conclusion that Trump didn't want to call on the National Guard is reasonable and your conclusion that he did comes across as naive and wishful.

To your second question, I have read the same stuff as you and I take most of it with a grain of salt. I base my best guess not on anything I read in the Washington Post.  I base it on what the secretary of defense already said.  He said he consulted with Pence that day.  He didn't mention Trump. The silence speaks volumes, IMO.  I hope we get a more detailed and more conclusive statement from him.

And to your final paragraph, you got so close to the truth. But then you get distracted.  If one branch of government stands aside while a mob assaults another, that is life threatening to the republic. This is exactly the kind of crime that would be egregious enough.  And yes, these proceedings are also theatrical.  All proceedings are.  Why does that latter fact negate the former? Of course it does not.  Stop hunting for excuses to not take this seriously, and start realizing that this is serious.

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