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(02-18-2021, 09:32 AM)Mikey Wrote:
(02-17-2021, 06:42 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: That would be ideal. Then you draft RT competition to push Taylor.

I'm insecure enough that even if we sign him, I am still keying in on LT candidates at 25 and 33 as they fit. I'd love to have a guy ready to plug in with no drop-off as soon as Williams' age catches up to him or the contract elapses.

Keep the cabinet stocked!!

If the Jaguars do sign Trent Williams, I'd wait until their 4th or 5th pick to take a left tackle. There are very good prospects who will likely still be available like Radunz, Hudson and Walker Little. The only exception is if Darrisaw drops to pick 25 (very unlikely). The team has too many needs like cornerback, safety, tight end and defensive line which should be prioritized if they sign Williams.
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(02-18-2021, 12:11 PM)jaglou53 Wrote:
(02-18-2021, 09:32 AM)Mikey Wrote: I'm insecure enough that even if we sign him, I am still keying in on LT candidates at 25 and 33 as they fit. I'd love to have a guy ready to plug in with no drop-off as soon as Williams' age catches up to him or the contract elapses.

Keep the cabinet stocked!!

If the Jaguars do sign Trent Williams, I'd wait until their 4th or 5th pick to take a left tackle. There are very good prospects who will likely still be available like Radunz, Hudson and Walker Little. The only exception is if Darrisaw drops to pick 25 (very unlikely). The team has too many needs like cornerback, safety, tight end and defensive line which should be prioritized if they sign Williams.

Not me. There are very good OT's at the top of this draft that should fall no further than the second round. After that, there is a huge drop off. I would be shocked if Radunz made it past the top of round 3. He is gaining a ton of momentum. I hate Hudson and Little. Hudson needs to kick inside to OG and was abused at the Senior Bowl. Little plays to high and gets off balance. Stronger DE's run him over like a speed bump. 

I'm not prioritizing anything. I'm taking the BAP. If that is OT, even after signing Williams in free agency, then I take OT. You can never have enough O-Line depth. There is always key injuries on the O-Line every year. Look at Philly last season and K.C. in the Superbowl.
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We need two new starter-quality offensive tackles.
You can't find those in the 3rd round.
If we sign Williams, great, we still need one more.
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
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(This post was last modified: 02-18-2021, 06:03 PM by ATLjag.)

(02-18-2021, 04:53 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(02-18-2021, 12:11 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: If the Jaguars do sign Trent Williams, I'd wait until their 4th or 5th pick to take a left tackle. There are very good prospects who will likely still be available like Radunz, Hudson and Walker Little. The only exception is if Darrisaw drops to pick 25 (very unlikely). The team has too many needs like cornerback, safety, tight end and defensive line which should be prioritized if they sign Williams.

Not me. There are very good OT's at the top of this draft that should fall no further than the second round. After that, there is a huge drop off. I would be shocked if Radunz made it past the top of round 3. He is gaining a ton of momentum. I hate Hudson and Little. Hudson needs to kick inside to OG and was abused at the Senior Bowl. Little plays to high and gets off balance. Stronger DE's run him over like a speed bump. 

I'm not prioritizing anything. I'm taking the BAP. If that is OT, even after signing Williams in free agency, then I take OT. You can never have enough O-Line depth. There is always key injuries on the O-Line every year. Look at Philly last season and K.C. in the Superbowl.
Assuming they sign Trent Williams, I think the backup/swing depth in Will Richardson is fine. He was a 4th round selection that many felt was good value selected there.  He beat out Josh Wells for the job, that was with the Bucs this past season.  He's young, good size, on a rookie contract, and still developing.  In this scenario, I think using a decent draft pick to select a backup level OT would be redundant for the roster, and there are better opportunities on the roster for improvement.  ...just my opinion
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(02-18-2021, 04:53 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(02-18-2021, 12:11 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: If the Jaguars do sign Trent Williams, I'd wait until their 4th or 5th pick to take a left tackle. There are very good prospects who will likely still be available like Radunz, Hudson and Walker Little. The only exception is if Darrisaw drops to pick 25 (very unlikely). The team has too many needs like cornerback, safety, tight end and defensive line which should be prioritized if they sign Williams.

Not me. There are very good OT's at the top of this draft that should fall no further than the second round. After that, there is a huge drop off. I would be shocked if Radunz made it past the top of round 3. He is gaining a ton of momentum. I hate Hudson and Little. Hudson needs to kick inside to OG and was abused at the Senior Bowl. Little plays to high and gets off balance. Stronger DE's run him over like a speed bump. 

I'm not prioritizing anything. I'm taking the BAP. If that is OT, even after signing Williams in free agency, then I take OT. You can never have enough O-Line depth. There is always key injuries on the O-Line every year. Look at Philly last season and K.C. in the Superbowl.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. After Sewell and Darrisaw, I'd take several other players over any of the remaining tackles at picks 25 and 33. Barmore and Rousseau on the defensive line, Horn at cornerback, Zaven Collins at linebacker, Freirmuth at tight end and Rondell Moore at wide receiver. Neither Radunz, Little or Hudson would be ready to start right away, but they all have a lot of upside once they gain experience. I'm not sure what you have against Little, but I heard Dane Brugler say he would be a steal in rounds 2 or 3. Brugler is one of the more respected draft analysts. 

Of course, free agency will determine which priorities the Jaguars will target in the top 3 rounds of the draft. If they don't get Williams, a left tackle would need to be taken earlier than I'd prefer.
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(02-18-2021, 06:01 PM)ATLjag Wrote:
(02-18-2021, 04:53 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Not me. There are very good OT's at the top of this draft that should fall no further than the second round. After that, there is a huge drop off. I would be shocked if Radunz made it past the top of round 3. He is gaining a ton of momentum. I hate Hudson and Little. Hudson needs to kick inside to OG and was abused at the Senior Bowl. Little plays to high and gets off balance. Stronger DE's run him over like a speed bump. 

I'm not prioritizing anything. I'm taking the BAP. If that is OT, even after signing Williams in free agency, then I take OT. You can never have enough O-Line depth. There is always key injuries on the O-Line every year. Look at Philly last season and K.C. in the Superbowl.
Assuming they sign Trent Williams, I think the backup/swing depth in Will Richardson is fine. He was a 4th round selection that many felt was good value selected there.  He beat out Josh Wells for the job, that was with the Bucs this past season.  He's young, good size, on a rookie contract, and still developing.  In this scenario, I think using a decent draft pick to select a backup level OT would be redundant for the roster, and there are better opportunities on the roster for improvement.  ...just my opinion
See I don't trust Will Richardson.

I would prefer Little out of Stanford over him.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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(02-18-2021, 06:01 PM)ATLjag Wrote:
(02-18-2021, 04:53 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Not me. There are very good OT's at the top of this draft that should fall no further than the second round. After that, there is a huge drop off. I would be shocked if Radunz made it past the top of round 3. He is gaining a ton of momentum. I hate Hudson and Little. Hudson needs to kick inside to OG and was abused at the Senior Bowl. Little plays to high and gets off balance. Stronger DE's run him over like a speed bump. 

I'm not prioritizing anything. I'm taking the BAP. If that is OT, even after signing Williams in free agency, then I take OT. You can never have enough O-Line depth. There is always key injuries on the O-Line every year. Look at Philly last season and K.C. in the Superbowl.
Assuming they sign Trent Williams, I think the backup/swing depth in Will Richardson is fine. He was a 4th round selection that many felt was good value selected there.  He beat out Josh Wells for the job, that was with the Bucs this past season.  He's young, good size, on a rookie contract, and still developing.  In this scenario, I think using a decent draft pick to select a backup level OT would be redundant for the roster, and there are better opportunities on the roster for improvement.  ...just my opinion

But we wouldn't be drafting a backup/swing Tackle. I agree, Richardson fits that role well. We'd be drafting a potential starting RT. As bad as Robinson is, he's not as bad as Jawaan Taylor. Taylor even got worse last season, which does not bode well for his future. He is slow footed and slow to get out of his stance. PFF ranks him among the worst starting OT's in the league. We need 2 new starting OT's, but I agree that Richardson makes a fine swing Tackle and he should be kept. Maybe if we find a good RT in the draft, we could trade Taylor for a late round pick. If not, we may choose not to pick up his option after the season and we could release him.
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I think Robinson is a solid starter. He doesn’t break the bank either. I wish you guys would give him another year with an elite talented QB that we are about to draft.

Good QBs make offensive lineman look better.
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(02-18-2021, 10:51 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: I think Robinson is a solid starter. He doesn’t break the bank either. I wish you guys would give him another year with an elite talented QB that we are about to draft.

Good QBs make offensive lineman look better.

Why? So he can get Lawrence hurt? I consider Joe Burrow a pretty darn good QB and he couldn't make the Bengals line any good in his rookie season. Sometimes you just have to look at certain players for what they are and realize, they just don't have the talent that you need. Robinson and Taylor lack the talent we need to protect a franchise QB. I'm fine with the rest of the O-Line though.
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(02-19-2021, 01:19 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(02-18-2021, 10:51 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: I think Robinson is a solid starter. He doesn’t break the bank either. I wish you guys would give him another year with an elite talented QB that we are about to draft.

Good QBs make offensive lineman look better.

Why? So he can get Lawrence hurt? I consider Joe Burrow a pretty darn good QB and he couldn't make the Bengals line any good in his rookie season. Sometimes you just have to look at certain players for what they are and realize, they just don't have the talent that you need. Robinson and Taylor lack the talent we need to protect a franchise QB. I'm fine with the rest of the O-Line though.
If Burrow was coming out this year im not even sure he would be qb2
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(This post was last modified: 02-19-2021, 09:25 AM by Mikey.)

(02-18-2021, 06:01 PM)ATLjag Wrote:
(02-18-2021, 04:53 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Not me. There are very good OT's at the top of this draft that should fall no further than the second round. After that, there is a huge drop off. I would be shocked if Radunz made it past the top of round 3. He is gaining a ton of momentum. I hate Hudson and Little. Hudson needs to kick inside to OG and was abused at the Senior Bowl. Little plays to high and gets off balance. Stronger DE's run him over like a speed bump. 

I'm not prioritizing anything. I'm taking the BAP. If that is OT, even after signing Williams in free agency, then I take OT. You can never have enough O-Line depth. There is always key injuries on the O-Line every year. Look at Philly last season and K.C. in the Superbowl.
Assuming they sign Trent Williams, I think the backup/swing depth in Will Richardson is fine. He was a 4th round selection that many felt was good value selected there.  He beat out Josh Wells for the job, that was with the Bucs this past season.  He's young, good size, on a rookie contract, and still developing.  In this scenario, I think using a decent draft pick to select a backup level OT would be redundant for the roster, and there are better opportunities on the roster for improvement.  ...just my opinion

The point is that you're not using the early pick on a backup level OT. You are getting a quality OT, but not installing him as day one starter. If, like O-LM proposed, we start the draft pick on the right side, that allows our backup level OT (taylor, bartch) to be just that. Sometimes darft picks are taken with the future in mind. Assuming we pursue and land Williams, Cam is gone; Williams gets hurt, what's the plan?

Get the big guys early.

(02-18-2021, 06:37 PM)jaglou53 Wrote:
(02-18-2021, 04:53 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Not me. There are very good OT's at the top of this draft that should fall no further than the second round. After that, there is a huge drop off. I would be shocked if Radunz made it past the top of round 3. He is gaining a ton of momentum. I hate Hudson and Little. Hudson needs to kick inside to OG and was abused at the Senior Bowl. Little plays to high and gets off balance. Stronger DE's run him over like a speed bump. 

I'm not prioritizing anything. I'm taking the BAP. If that is OT, even after signing Williams in free agency, then I take OT. You can never have enough O-Line depth. There is always key injuries on the O-Line every year. Look at Philly last season and K.C. in the Superbowl.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. After Sewell and Darrisaw, I'd take several other players over any of the remaining tackles at picks 25 and 33. Barmore and Rousseau on the defensive line, Horn at cornerback, Zaven Collins at linebacker, Freirmuth at tight end and Rondell Moore at wide receiver. Neither Radunz, Little or Hudson would be ready to start right away, but they all have a lot of upside once they gain experience. I'm not sure what you have against Little, but I heard Dane Brugler say he would be a steal in rounds 2 or 3. Brugler is one of the more respected draft analysts. 

Of course, free agency will determine which priorities the Jaguars will target in the top 3 rounds of the draft. If they don't get Williams, a left tackle would need to be taken earlier than I'd prefer.

Seeing as they were excluded from your list, interested to hear your thoughts on Eichenburg and Mayfield. I see them as viable options at 33. If we spend a first round pick on a WR we're in for a loooooooooong season. I highly doubt Horn will be there, and question whether Rousseau will be, or that he would be a fit.
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Jags need to sign JJ watt. if for no other reason to keep him out of tensse. thats were he will end up going if jags don't sign him.




snowwolf titans owner in madden.

note titans owner means im undeafted againest them. 

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Neither will happen.
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(02-19-2021, 02:56 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote:
(02-19-2021, 01:19 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Why? So he can get Lawrence hurt? I consider Joe Burrow a pretty darn good QB and he couldn't make the Bengals line any good in his rookie season. Sometimes you just have to look at certain players for what they are and realize, they just don't have the talent that you need. Robinson and Taylor lack the talent we need to protect a franchise QB. I'm fine with the rest of the O-Line though.
If Burrow was coming out this year im not even sure he would be qb2

That certainly doesn't mean Burrow is bad. I believe he'll still be a star, as I do Lawrence and Wilson. Mac Jones might even be better than a lot of people think as well.
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(This post was last modified: 02-19-2021, 11:09 AM by TheO-LineMatters.)

(02-19-2021, 09:21 AM)Mikey Wrote:
(02-18-2021, 06:01 PM)ATLjag Wrote: Assuming they sign Trent Williams, I think the backup/swing depth in Will Richardson is fine. He was a 4th round selection that many felt was good value selected there.  He beat out Josh Wells for the job, that was with the Bucs this past season.  He's young, good size, on a rookie contract, and still developing.  In this scenario, I think using a decent draft pick to select a backup level OT would be redundant for the roster, and there are better opportunities on the roster for improvement.  ...just my opinion

The point is that you're not using the early pick on a backup level OT. You are getting a quality OT, but not installing him as day one starter. If, like O-LM proposed, we start the draft pick on the right side, that allows our backup level OT (taylor, bartch) to be just that. Sometimes darft picks are taken with the future in mind. Assuming we pursue and land Williams, Cam is gone; Williams gets hurt, what's the plan?

Get the big guys early.


Where would I be getting a backup level OT? Jawaan Taylor is flat out bad. I believe the OT I select at #25 would beat him out for the starting job, day one. How does that equate to a backup OT? There are multiple OT's in this class that I truly believe would beat out Taylor for the RT job, immediately. I would definitely take one of them if they were there at #25. If I go into the season with Robinson or Taylor as my starting OT, I'm gonna be worried all year for the safety of Trevor Lawrence, because of their lack of pass blocking. I wanna be able to trust my OT's and right now, I don't at all. 
If Cam is gone and Williams gets hurt in your scenario, I keep the rookie I draft at #25 at RT and play Richardson at LT or vice versa. Although it's not an ideal situation due to injury, I feel way better about that lineup than I do starting Robinson or Taylor at either of the OT positions.
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(02-19-2021, 11:09 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(02-19-2021, 09:21 AM)Mikey Wrote: The point is that you're not using the early pick on a backup level OT. You are getting a quality OT, but not installing him as day one starter. If, like O-LM proposed, we start the draft pick on the right side, that allows our backup level OT (taylor, bartch) to be just that. Sometimes darft picks are taken with the future in mind. Assuming we pursue and land Williams, Cam is gone; Williams gets hurt, what's the plan?

Get the big guys early.


Where would I be getting a backup level OT? Jawaan Taylor is flat out bad. I believe the OT I select at #25 would beat him out for the starting job, day one. How does that equate to a backup OT? There are multiple OT's in this class that I truly believe would beat out Taylor for the RT job, immediately. I would definitely take one of them if they were there at #25. If I go into the season with Robinson or Taylor as my starting OT, I'm gonna be worried all year for the safety of Trevor Lawrence, because of their lack of pass blocking. I wanna be able to trust my OT's and right now, I don't at all. 
If Cam is gone and Williams gets hurt in your scenario, I keep the rookie I draft at #25 at RT and play Richardson at LT or vice versa. Although it's not an ideal situation due to injury, I feel way better about that lineup than I do starting Robinson or Taylor at either of the OT positions.
I think I’m also calling the Saints about Armstead or Ram. Both are elite and the Saints are very cash strapped. They haven’t even signed a new QB (they’re not rolling out Hill week 1) and they’re already 50 million over.
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(02-19-2021, 09:21 AM)Mikey Wrote:
(02-18-2021, 06:01 PM)ATLjag Wrote: Assuming they sign Trent Williams, I think the backup/swing depth in Will Richardson is fine. He was a 4th round selection that many felt was good value selected there.  He beat out Josh Wells for the job, that was with the Bucs this past season.  He's young, good size, on a rookie contract, and still developing.  In this scenario, I think using a decent draft pick to select a backup level OT would be redundant for the roster, and there are better opportunities on the roster for improvement.  ...just my opinion

The point is that you're not using the early pick on a backup level OT. You are getting a quality OT, but not installing him as day one starter. If, like O-LM proposed, we start the draft pick on the right side, that allows our backup level OT (taylor, bartch) to be just that. Sometimes darft picks are taken with the future in mind. Assuming we pursue and land Williams, Cam is gone; Williams gets hurt, what's the plan?

Get the big guys early.

(02-18-2021, 06:37 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. After Sewell and Darrisaw, I'd take several other players over any of the remaining tackles at picks 25 and 33. Barmore and Rousseau on the defensive line, Horn at cornerback, Zaven Collins at linebacker, Freirmuth at tight end and Rondell Moore at wide receiver. Neither Radunz, Little or Hudson would be ready to start right away, but they all have a lot of upside once they gain experience. I'm not sure what you have against Little, but I heard Dane Brugler say he would be a steal in rounds 2 or 3. Brugler is one of the more respected draft analysts. 

Of course, free agency will determine which priorities the Jaguars will target in the top 3 rounds of the draft. If they don't get Williams, a left tackle would need to be taken earlier than I'd prefer.

Seeing as they were excluded from your list, interested to hear your thoughts on Eichenburg and Mayfield. I see them as viable options at 33. If we spend a first round pick on a WR we're in for a loooooooooong season. I highly doubt Horn will be there, and question whether Rousseau will be, or that he would be a fit.
Eichenberg and Mayfield have mixed reviews. Several analysts say the former has very limited upside due to his lack of athleticism. On the other hand, he could be the most ready to step in right away and do an adequate job. Mayfield played mostly at right tackle and would be more suited to start there, Teven Jenkins would fall into the same category. I preferred looking at Radunz, Little and Hudson because they could benefit from learning from Trent Wiliams and will be available with picks 4 or 5. Little ad been considered a potential first rounder prior to his injuries and would be a high risk/high reward pick.
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(02-19-2021, 11:11 AM)Cleatwood Wrote:
(02-19-2021, 11:09 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Where would I be getting a backup level OT? Jawaan Taylor is flat out bad. I believe the OT I select at #25 would beat him out for the starting job, day one. How does that equate to a backup OT? There are multiple OT's in this class that I truly believe would beat out Taylor for the RT job, immediately. I would definitely take one of them if they were there at #25. If I go into the season with Robinson or Taylor as my starting OT, I'm gonna be worried all year for the safety of Trevor Lawrence, because of their lack of pass blocking. I wanna be able to trust my OT's and right now, I don't at all. 
If Cam is gone and Williams gets hurt in your scenario, I keep the rookie I draft at #25 at RT and play Richardson at LT or vice versa. Although it's not an ideal situation due to injury, I feel way better about that lineup than I do starting Robinson or Taylor at either of the OT positions.
I think I’m also calling the Saints about Armstead or Ram. Both are elite and the Saints are very cash strapped. They haven’t even signed a new QB (they’re not rolling out Hill week 1) and they’re already 50 million over.

If I am Jacksonville, I would have already made that call and already made an offer. I'd give up quite a bit more for Ramczyk, because he is younger and is on the rise, but I would happily take either player.  I wanted to draft Ramczyk instead of taking Leonard Fournette, but everyone thought I was crazy, since Ramczyk went a lot later. He played at an elite level in college at LT and would secure one of the OT positions with a guy I can trust for the next 5-7 years. I would also sign Ramczyk to an immediately long term extension if we made such a trade.
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(This post was last modified: 02-19-2021, 01:42 PM by ATLjag.)

I misread or likely misunderstood in my old age that the idea of another tackle, if Williams was acquired, was to replace Taylor. It looked to me like Taylor was strong when latched on, but got beat like a drum with any speed. It was a disappointment that he just didn't seem to improve at all last year. I think his best role may be kicked inside to OG. So, the thought of another tackle to compete with or replace Taylor on the right side makes sense to me. Usually, you can find right tackles beyond round 1.
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I'm not too worried about WR's.. I'm hoping TL will bring out the best in the corps. The TE situation is a bit suspect, but I have a feeling Eifert is going to do really well if he stays healthy.. I really wouldn't mind adding pieces on both sides of the line.. Could always use another proven vet to help protect TL and a pass rusher to create plays..


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