I think Trent Williams is more appropriate for a team trying to win now not for one in the process of rebuilding.

With so many positions on this team in need of upgrade, I think it's too early to invest that much cap space in one player.

I think the team would be better served using that cap space to bring in a broad range of players in order to increase the odds of finding a core group of talent that works.

After you find that core, then you can start targeting individual players and offering big contracts to fill the remaining roster holes.

I do think we need to get better play from that position and should be addressed in the offseason, I just don't think we need to break the bank on any player while the roster is likely  multiple years of development away from being able to reap the full benefits of that player.

Also, a big contract now and it's impact on future salary caps could potentially hamstring your rebuilding efforts before they are completed.

As usual we disagree  , but yours is not an unreasonable take by any means.

When TC built this team the first time, his model free agent was 26 years old.  Indeed, as a general rule of thumb, I agree that free agents should be younger, especially for a team like ours that is rebuilding from the ground up.

But there are reasons/advantages to going after Williams.

1.  As discussed earlier, he would provide an immediate and substantial upgrade at a premium position.  After QB, LT is the most important position on offense.  It's not often a LT of that caliber becomes available.  We should take advantage of that opportunity.

2.  We have the cap room now to absorb the cap hit.  Furthermore with the cap going down, we are at an advantage over other teams who are stressed for cap room and will be precluded from bidding on him for that reason.  We'll have the maneuverability we need in the future if we structure his deal right.  By the time we need to re-sign Lawrence, Williams' contract can be trimmed from the cap if too burdensome.

3.  Signing Williams should give us time.  If we have him, we don't have to worry about a rookie LT trying to protect his blind side while he develops.  A left side of Williams, NNorwell and Linder should provide knowledge, experience and ability to provide ample protection for Lawrence-at least from that side of the line.  As Lawrence learns to read NFL defenses and identify blitzers more efficiently he'll have that protection he needs. By the time we have to replace Williams, Lawrence can do a better job of protecting himself.  In his early years, we can draft linemen, develop depth and groom Williams replacement then, with an experienced and savvy Lawrence now at the helm.

4.  Signing Williams helps us in the draft.  As I also discussed earlier, signing Williams frees up our draft after Lawrence.  Instead of maybe forcing a pick on a LT who may or may not be worth it at 25 or 33 or 45, we could feel free to pick the best player.  If we signed Williams, perhaps in the next year or two, we'll be higher in the draft pool and may be able to spend a higher pick on a LT prospect that may be worth it.  LT is a premium position, and the best ones tend to go very high.  This may be a deep T class, but I get the sense that given the draft order and the importance of the position, we may be picking from the remains after other teams have scavenged from the top.  If we sign Williams and there is still a T on the board worth it at 25, we could still draft him there and, by and large, be finished building the O-Line.  The drafted T would compete with Taylor at RT, with the loser either sliding inside to possibly upgrade Cann or at minimum, provide depth at T. 

We saw in last night's game what the lack of quality T depth can do to even a great QB.  We've seen what happened to Andrew Luck's career when he was not adequately protected.  We saw what happened to last year's #1 overall pick.  If we have any interest in avoiding these things with Lawrence, we need smart and effective investment in the offensive line, especially at LT.  Williams would certainly upgrade the most important position.  We have the cap space to bring him in.  Signing him gives us time and draft flexibility to do it, to the point of completing the OL for the next few years and giving us depth.

Though Williams is older and more expensive than what would ordinarily be preferred, he is the smart and effective investment we need at the most important position in the OL.

Like I said, I am for improving the position, but I can't see where signing an older player, who will probably end up being be the highest paid player in history at his position, makes any long term sense for a team in the early stages of a rebuild.

By the time the rest of the roster develops enough to be a competitive, he will likely be past his prime and represent nothing more than a big cap hit.

You can find much cheaper options to develop a future starter under.

Besides that, there is no way he would be looking to join a rebuilding team this late in his career unless we get a bidding war and offer him a ridiculous contract which would make even less sense for a rebuilding team.

Spending a tremendous amount of money because you currently have it, just for the sake of having a shinny big name player now who doesn't fit in your future plans, is not the way to rebuild a team.

Like I said, taking a swing at that caliber of player a few years down the road after we have a somewhat developed roster, makes sense. Doing it now when we are most likely a few years away from being able to field a competitive team, makes absolutely no sense and represents a huge waste of money that could be spent on adding multiple starters and increasing depth.

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By the time the rest of the roster develops enough to be a competitive, he will likely be past his prime and represent nothing more than a big cap hit.

Just because Caldwell conned Khan into thinking that rebuilds take 8 years doesn't mean they actually do. We can turn it around very quickly if Lawrence is the man. Getting Trent and giving him a record breaking AAV with a hard out after 2-3 years makes tons of sense for us.

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As usual we disagree  , but yours is not an unreasonable take by any means.

When TC built this team the first time, his model free agent was 26 years old.  Indeed, as a general rule of thumb, I agree that free agents should be younger, especially for a team like ours that is rebuilding from the ground up.

But there are reasons/advantages to going after Williams.

1.  As discussed earlier, he would provide an immediate and substantial upgrade at a premium position.  After QB, LT is the most important position on offense.  It's not often a LT of that caliber becomes available.  We should take advantage of that opportunity.

2.  We have the cap room now to absorb the cap hit.  Furthermore with the cap going down, we are at an advantage over other teams who are stressed for cap room and will be precluded from bidding on him for that reason.  We'll have the maneuverability we need in the future if we structure his deal right.  By the time we need to re-sign Lawrence, Williams' contract can be trimmed from the cap if too burdensome.

3.  Signing Williams should give us time.  If we have him, we don't have to worry about a rookie LT trying to protect his blind side while he develops.  A left side of Williams, NNorwell and Linder should provide knowledge, experience and ability to provide ample protection for Lawrence-at least from that side of the line.  As Lawrence learns to read NFL defenses and identify blitzers more efficiently he'll have that protection he needs. By the time we have to replace Williams, Lawrence can do a better job of protecting himself.  In his early years, we can draft linemen, develop depth and groom Williams replacement then, with an experienced and savvy Lawrence now at the helm.

4.  Signing Williams helps us in the draft.  As I also discussed earlier, signing Williams frees up our draft after Lawrence.  Instead of maybe forcing a pick on a LT who may or may not be worth it at 25 or 33 or 45, we could feel free to pick the best player.  If we signed Williams, perhaps in the next year or two, we'll be higher in the draft pool and may be able to spend a higher pick on a LT prospect that may be worth it.  LT is a premium position, and the best ones tend to go very high.  This may be a deep T class, but I get the sense that given the draft order and the importance of the position, we may be picking from the remains after other teams have scavenged from the top.  If we sign Williams and there is still a T on the board worth it at 25, we could still draft him there and, by and large, be finished building the O-Line.  The drafted T would compete with Taylor at RT, with the loser either sliding inside to possibly upgrade Cann or at minimum, provide depth at T. 

We saw in last night's game what the lack of quality T depth can do to even a great QB.  We've seen what happened to Andrew Luck's career when he was not adequately protected.  We saw what happened to last year's #1 overall pick.  If we have any interest in avoiding these things with Lawrence, we need smart and effective investment in the offensive line, especially at LT.  Williams would certainly upgrade the most important position.  We have the cap space to bring him in.  Signing him gives us time and draft flexibility to do it, to the point of completing the OL for the next few years and giving us depth.

Though Williams is older and more expensive than what would ordinarily be preferred, he is the smart and effective investment we need at the most important position in the OL.

Like I said, I am for improving the position, but I can't see where signing an older player, who will probably end up being be the highest paid player in history at his position, makes any long term sense for a team in the early stages of a rebuild.

By the time the rest of the roster develops enough to be a competitive, he will likely be past his prime and represent nothing more than a big cap hit.

You can find much cheaper options to develop a future starter under.

Besides that, there is no way he would be looking to join a rebuilding team this late in his career unless we get a bidding war and offer him a ridiculous contract which would make even less sense for a rebuilding team.

Spending a tremendous amount of money because you currently have it, just for the sake of having a shinny big name player now who doesn't fit in your future plans, is not the way to rebuild a team.

Like I said, taking a swing at that caliber of player a few years down the road after we have a somewhat developed roster, makes sense. Doing it now when we are most likely a few years away from being able to field a competitive team, makes absolutely no sense and represents a huge waste of money that could be spent on adding multiple starters and increasing depth.

Pay him 50mil over 2 years and come back to the position later on. I'd also franchise Robinson for shots and giggles.

Also, we need to draft a TE, not sign one of the bum TEs y'all keep clamoring over

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Your beliefs become your thoughts,
Your thoughts become your words,
Your words become your actions,
Your actions become your habits,
Your habits become your values,
Your values become your destiny.

Give me Freiermuth over Cox or Smith

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There are several big name FA that intrigue me, but with our over lack of success with big name FA they also scare me.

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By the time the rest of the roster develops enough to be a competitive, he will likely be past his prime and represent nothing more than a big cap hit.

Just because Caldwell conned Khan into thinking that rebuilds take 8 years doesn't mean they actually do. We can turn it around very quickly if Lawrence is the man. Getting Trent and giving him a record breaking AAV with a hard out after 2-3 years makes tons of sense for us.

Say it takes 2-3 years, Williams will still be at the typical retiring age for most good LTs when rebuilding is over. Most of these guys retire by age 35.

Besides, he would have no interest playing for a rebuilding team at this point in his career. He would want to be on a playoff caliber team that has a shot at a SB before his days are done. A team like that would still be willing to pay him a huge contract.

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Williams has to be our top priority FA imo. 32 isn't that old and I think we have a shot at the division this year with a good draft and FA. Great players can play at a higher level at an older age than average players. Williams is on pace for a borderline HOF career. I.still think he will play at a high level 3 or 4 more years. Pretty much T Laws whole rookie contract. Let's go get that elite blind side blocker for Trevor

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Just because Caldwell conned Khan into thinking that rebuilds take 8 years doesn't mean they actually do. We can turn it around very quickly if Lawrence is the man. Getting Trent and giving him a record breaking AAV with a hard out after 2-3 years makes tons of sense for us.

Say it takes 2-3 years, Williams will still be at the typical retiring age for most good LTs when rebuilding is over. Most of these guys retire by age 35.

Besides, he would have no interest playing for a rebuilding team at this point in his career. He would want to be on a playoff caliber team that has a shot at a SB before his days are done. A team like that would still be willing to pay him a huge contract.

The want for Williams is more about protecting our new QB than it is about how much hes going to help us win. If we want Lawrence to progress and become the QB that alot of people think he can, the dudes gotta survive behind the offensive line. Yes we do have alot of holes that need filled on this team, but protecting your possible biggest investment and hopefully a great QB for us needs to be priority 1.

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In Dougie I Trust!

In the grand scheme of things it may not matter so much but still

https://twitter.com/FieldYates/status/13...3359575043

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Say it takes 2-3 years, Williams will still be at the typical retiring age for most good LTs when rebuilding is over. Most of these guys retire by age 35.

Besides, he would have no interest playing for a rebuilding team at this point in his career. He would want to be on a playoff caliber team that has a shot at a SB before his days are done. A team like that would still be willing to pay him a huge contract.

The want for Williams is more about protecting our new QB than it is about how much hes going to help us win. If we want Lawrence to progress and become the QB that alot of people think he can, the dudes gotta survive behind the offensive line. Yes we do have alot of holes that need filled on this team, but protecting your possible biggest investment and hopefully a great QB for us needs to be priority 1.

You can protect him without signing the most expensive player at one position.

There are 5 positions on the oline. You can upgrade multiple positions and bring in quality depth across the board with the money Williams will command.

Burrows didn't get hurt because he didn't have the top LT in the game. He got hurt because of the lack of quality at two other positions on the line that allowed their guys to crush the QB.

It's foolish to think you can throw a ton of money at just one position and adequately protect your QB.

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The want for Williams is more about protecting our new QB than it is about how much hes going to help us win. If we want Lawrence to progress and become the QB that alot of people think he can, the dudes gotta survive behind the offensive line. Yes we do have alot of holes that need filled on this team, but protecting your possible biggest investment and hopefully a great QB for us needs to be priority 1.

You can protect him without signing the most expensive player at one position.

There are 5 positions on the oline. You can upgrade multiple positions and bring in quality depth across the board with the money Williams will command.

Burrows didn't get hurt because he didn't have the top LT in the game. He got hurt because of the lack of quality at two other positions on the line that allowed their guys to crush the QB.

It's foolish to think you can throw a ton of money at just one position and adequately protect your QB.

Our interior isn't bad and we would still be able to add other pieces through the draft and FA, its not like he will be the only addition to the offense even if we are able to get him

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The want for Williams is more about protecting our new QB than it is about how much hes going to help us win. If we want Lawrence to progress and become the QB that alot of people think he can, the dudes gotta survive behind the offensive line. Yes we do have alot of holes that need filled on this team, but protecting your possible biggest investment and hopefully a great QB for us needs to be priority 1.

You can protect him without signing the most expensive player at one position.

There are 5 positions on the oline. You can upgrade multiple positions and bring in quality depth across the board with the money Williams will command.

Burrows didn't get hurt because he didn't have the top LT in the game. He got hurt because of the lack of quality at two other positions on the line that allowed their guys to crush the QB.

It's foolish to think you can throw a ton of money at just one position and adequately protect your QB.

I'm o.k. with our interior though. Norwell played at a very high level last season, Linder was Linder and when he got hurt Shatley did a good job. Even Cann played better. It's the OT's that were putrid. Robinson and Taylor were God-awful! That is where we need major upgrades.

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You can protect him without signing the most expensive player at one position.

There are 5 positions on the oline. You can upgrade multiple positions and bring in quality depth across the board with the money Williams will command.

Burrows didn't get hurt because he didn't have the top LT in the game. He got hurt because of the lack of quality at two other positions on the line that allowed their guys to crush the QB.

It's foolish to think you can throw a ton of money at just one position and adequately protect your QB.

Our interior isn't bad and we would still be able to add other pieces through the draft and FA, its not like he will be the only addition to the offense even if we are able to get him

But you are limiting what you can do in FA to improve your overall roster when you sign a guy who is going to eat up $20+ mil of your cap for the next 4 years.

You are likely extending the time frame of your rebuild for a guy who likely won't be a part of the team once the rebuild is over.

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You can protect him without signing the most expensive player at one position.

There are 5 positions on the oline. You can upgrade multiple positions and bring in quality depth across the board with the money Williams will command.

Burrows didn't get hurt because he didn't have the top LT in the game. He got hurt because of the lack of quality at two other positions on the line that allowed their guys to crush the QB.

It's foolish to think you can throw a ton of money at just one position and adequately protect your QB.

I'm o.k. with our interior though. Norwell played at a very high level last season, Linder was Linder and when he got hurt Shatley did a good job. Even Cann played better. It's the OT's that were putrid. Robinson and Taylor were God-awful! That is where we need major upgrades.

We also need to improve our depth.

How often does a team get through a season without having multiple players on the OL go down for at least some part of the season? Often there are multiple players down at the same time.

What happens when you have a couple of your blockers go down and the quality of their replacements hold up against a pass rush like a wet paper sack?

How much can Williams do to protect the QB then?

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Our interior isn't bad and we would still be able to add other pieces through the draft and FA, its not like he will be the only addition to the offense even if we are able to get him

But you are limiting what you can do in FA to improve your overall roster when you sign a guy who is going to eat up $20+ mil of your cap for the next 4 years.

You are likely extending the time frame of your rebuild for a guy who likely won't be a part of the team once the rebuild is over.

How long do you think it takes to rebuild team?  We have a chance to make the playoffs with a good draft and FA.  I dont have any doubt that Williams could play at an elite level during Trevor's rookie contract and then when it's time to resign T Law we can draft Williams replacement.  You're acting like we are pinching pennies here lol.  Not so why anyone wouldn't want the best player to protect Trevor's blind side and that would be Trent Williams, you are the only person I have seen that doesn't want him

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But you are limiting what you can do in FA to improve your overall roster when you sign a guy who is going to eat up $20+ mil of your cap for the next 4 years.

You are likely extending the time frame of your rebuild for a guy who likely won't be a part of the team once the rebuild is over.

How long do you think it takes to rebuild team?  We have a chance to make the playoffs with a good draft and FA.  I dont have any doubt that Williams could play at an elite level during Trevor's rookie contract and then when it's time to resign T Law we can draft Williams replacement.  You're acting like we are pinching pennies here lol.  Not so why anyone wouldn't want the best player to protect Trevor's blind side and that would be Trent Williams, you are the only person I have seen that doesn't want him

I don't know how long it will take, but I am pretty sure tying up a significant chunk of your cap space in one player isn't going to speed up the process.

Williams will be 33 next year the chances of him playing at an elite level through T Law's contract are very slim. The reality is that most of your top tier OTs don't make it past 35 much less play at an elite level at that age. Orlando Pace, Walter Jones, Joe Thomas, Jonathan Ogden, Anthony Munoz never made it past 35 so the odds of him playing past that age at an Elite level are slim. LTs bodies just wear out.

I would have loved to have him 5 years ago when we were a team on the rise, but this isn't 5 years ago. We are a team in the early stages of a rebuild and a guy of that age or price doesn't fit on a team like that.

We can argue all day about this, but the reality the discussion of acquiring Williams is a moot point.

The 49er's have said their main priority this offseason is to get him signed and if they can't come to a deal, this would be the last place he would want to go.

Williams has already earned big bucks in his career and wherever he goes he will still get another big payday.

Players in the twilight of their careers are more concerned about getting a championship than they are about getting the best possible contract. He is not going to waist his last few prime years on a rebuilding team. He will be looking for a team with the potential to contend for a title now and for the next couple of years.

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I'm o.k. with our interior though. Norwell played at a very high level last season, Linder was Linder and when he got hurt Shatley did a good job. Even Cann played better. It's the OT's that were putrid. Robinson and Taylor were God-awful! That is where we need major upgrades.

We also need to improve our depth.

How often does a team get through a season without having multiple players on the OL go down for at least some part of the season? Often there are multiple players down at the same time.

What happens when you have a couple of your blockers go down and the quality of their replacements hold up against a pass rush like a wet paper sack?

How much can Williams do to protect the QB then?

I kinda like our depth on the interior. It's the OT position that I'm worried about. We don't even have competent starters at OT, much less depth. When it comes to the inside, I leave LG and Center as they are. I have Bartch and Cann compete for the RG position with the loser becoming the top backup OG. I re-sign Shatley as the backup Center and I add another interior linemen in the mid to late rounds of the draft to improve the depth. 

If we get Trent Williams to start at LT, we could draft another young OT to compete with Taylor at RT in the first or second day of the draft. The loser would end up backing up RT alongside Will Richardson backing up at LT and I believe we'll be a lot better off. 

If we can't get Williams in free agency then it's imperative that we draft a LT as well as a RT. The LT needs to be drafted very early and the RT needs to be taken no later than round 4 as we'd need serious contenders for those starting spots, since Williams is the only franchise type free agent OT at this time.

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How long do you think it takes to rebuild team?  We have a chance to make the playoffs with a good draft and FA.  I dont have any doubt that Williams could play at an elite level during Trevor's rookie contract and then when it's time to resign T Law we can draft Williams replacement.  You're acting like we are pinching pennies here lol.  Not so why anyone wouldn't want the best player to protect Trevor's blind side and that would be Trent Williams, you are the only person I have seen that doesn't want him

I don't know how long it will take, but I am pretty sure tying up a significant chunk of your cap space in one player isn't going to speed up the process.

Williams will be 33 next year the chances of him playing at an elite level through T Law's contract are very slim. The reality is that most of your top tier OTs don't make it past 35 much less play at an elite level at that age. Orlando Pace, Walter Jones, Joe Thomas, Jonathan Ogden, Anthony Munoz never made it past 35 so the odds of him playing past that age at an Elite level are slim. LTs bodies just wear out.

I would have loved to have him 5 years ago when we were a team on the rise, but this isn't 5 years ago. We are a team in the early stages of a rebuild and a guy of that age or price doesn't fit on a team like that.

We can argue all day about this, but the reality the discussion of acquiring Williams is a moot point.

The 49er's have said their main priority this offseason is to get him signed and if they can't come to a deal, this would be the last place he would want to go.

Williams has already earned big bucks in his career and wherever he goes he will still get another big payday.

Players in the twilight of their careers are more concerned about getting a championship than they are about getting the best possible contract. He is not going to waist his last few prime years on a rebuilding team. He will be looking for a team with the potential to contend for a title now and for the next couple of years.

We probably won't get him bit he would be the player that could help Trevor and this team the most.  I hope we go after Okung if we can't get Williams

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I don't know how long it will take, but I am pretty sure tying up a significant chunk of your cap space in one player isn't going to speed up the process.

Williams will be 33 next year the chances of him playing at an elite level through T Law's contract are very slim. The reality is that most of your top tier OTs don't make it past 35 much less play at an elite level at that age. Orlando Pace, Walter Jones, Joe Thomas, Jonathan Ogden, Anthony Munoz never made it past 35 so the odds of him playing past that age at an Elite level are slim. LTs bodies just wear out.

I would have loved to have him 5 years ago when we were a team on the rise, but this isn't 5 years ago. We are a team in the early stages of a rebuild and a guy of that age or price doesn't fit on a team like that.

We can argue all day about this, but the reality the discussion of acquiring Williams is a moot point.

The 49er's have said their main priority this offseason is to get him signed and if they can't come to a deal, this would be the last place he would want to go.

Williams has already earned big bucks in his career and wherever he goes he will still get another big payday.

Players in the twilight of their careers are more concerned about getting a championship than they are about getting the best possible contract. He is not going to waist his last few prime years on a rebuilding team. He will be looking for a team with the potential to contend for a title now and for the next couple of years.

We probably won't get him bit he would be the player that could help Trevor and this team the most.  I hope we go after Okung if we can't get Williams

That's a big step down from Williams.

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We probably won't get him bit he would be the player that could help Trevor and this team the most.  I hope we go after Okung if we can't get Williams

That's a big step down from Williams.

Any other player will be a big step down from Williams so I want the next best vet and the guy i would trust the most

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