I can't believe all of the excuse making on this board.  The Jaguars have sucked before in their history and they had no problems signing free agents in the off season.  Players overwhelmingly follow the money.  It's true that occasionally a player might take less to go to a certain place, but that's the exception.  When it happens, you move to the next best player.  You don't make signing a kick returner, a special teams gunner and a 30+ year old failed running back your priorities.

Yes, the Jaguars have sucked before in their history and they had no problems signing free agents in the off season.  That is true.  What is also true is that, aside from one very lucky year, 2017, we made all those free agent signings and yet we continued to suck.  

What has probably happened this year is that we decided not to offer the kind of money that would be required to persuade some of the higher profile free agents to come here.  There's nothing wrong with that.  We have apparently decided to use free agency to fill holes, and build the team long-term through the draft.  All you guys who wanted the team to overpay so we could get the guys you wanted are being short-sighted.  Overpaying for high profile free agents is not the way to build a team for the long term.  It's obvious to me that Meyer/Baalke are not doing the one-year plan.  They are thinking more long term.

We live in the age of the salary cap.  It's the same for every team.  It's a limited resource.  If you overpay for one guy, that is a waste of limited resources.  You have to allocate your salary cap to the entire roster, not just a few guys.

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Lmao yes there is plenty of doubt about it.

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1372579752712810502?s=19

Most improved and top 5 can be very different. We started much lower and signed more players than anyone else so by the quantity over quality measure we improved more than other teams, sure.

Many other teams signed far more impactful players and mostly for better value. WFT, Jets, Pats (who basically did what we did but with better players), Bengals, Browns, Chiefs, and Niners did better at least.

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When you want to win now, you fill holes with the money you have (and this team had a lot of holes to fill) and you draft for the future.

What you don't do is throw almost your entire cap space at one player..

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Projecting what we might have done..what offers we may have made ? None of us have our jobs or reputations tied to the performance of this team. Before free agency there were 2 ways to go. spend a lot on a few players, possibly creating cap issues down the road due to injury, age whatever. This management group has chosen to spend same amount on more players limiting our future downside risk. The way I see it they are being prudent with the cap room assets purchased by all of our pain last season. This is where we are guys.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

Projecting what we might have done..what offers we may have made ? None of us have our jobs or reputations tied to the performance of this team. Before free agency there were 2 ways to go. spend a lot on a few players, possibly creating cap issues down the road due to injury, age whatever. This management group has chosen to spend same amount on more players limiting our future downside risk. The way I see it they are being prudent with the cap room assets purchased by all of our pain last season. This is where we are guys.

The funny thing is we weren't that prudent. Other than Marvin Jones we overpaid everyone. Griffin got 2 mil less than far better William Jackson. RRH got 1 mil less than Shelby Harris. Jenkins only got 3 mil less than the elite Johnson III (maybe we were the team that tried to outbid the Browns but most experts think it was the Lions). All of the special teams guys and the blocking TE went for much more than projected...

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Projecting what we might have done..what offers we may have made ?   None of us have our jobs or reputations tied to the performance of this team.  Before free agency there were 2 ways to go. spend a lot on a few players, possibly creating cap issues down the road due to injury, age whatever. This management group has chosen to spend same amount on more players limiting our future downside risk.  The way I see it they are being prudent with the cap room assets purchased by all of our pain last season. This is where we are guys.

The funny thing is we weren't that prudent. Other than Marvin Jones we overpaid everyone. Griffin got 2 mil less than far better William Jackson. RRH got 1 mil less than Shelby Harris. Jenkins only got 3 mil less than the elite Johnson III (maybe we were the team that tried to outbid the Browns but most experts think it was the Lions. All if the special teams guys and the blocking TE went for much more than projected...

Projected by people with no skin in the game

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

I can't believe all of the excuse making on this board.  The Jaguars have sucked before in their history and they had no problems signing free agents in the off season.  Players overwhelmingly follow the money.  It's true that occasionally a player might take less to go to a certain place, but that's the exception.  When it happens, you move to the next best player.  You don't make signing a kick returner, a special teams gunner and a 30+ year old failed running back your priorities.

Yes, the Jaguars have sucked before in their history and they had no problems signing free agents in the off season.  That is true.  What is also true is that, aside from one very lucky year, 2017, we made all those free agent signings and yet we continued to suck.  

What has probably happened this year is that we decided not to offer the kind of money that would be required to persuade some of the higher profile free agents to come here.  There's nothing wrong with that.  We have apparently decided to use free agency to fill holes, and build the team long-term through the draft.  All you guys who wanted the team to overpay so we could get the guys you wanted are being short-sighted.  Overpaying for high profile free agents is not the way to build a team for the long term.  It's obvious to me that Meyer/Baalke are not doing the one-year plan.  They are thinking more long term.

We live in the age of the salary cap.  It's the same for every team.  It's a limited resource.  If you overpay for one guy, that is a waste of limited resources.  You have to allocate your salary cap to the entire roster, not just a few guys.

You are clearly someone who was a long time reader of Vic Ketchman.  Like O-Zone, he was an employee of the Jaguars and his job was to argue that every bad decision the Jaguars made was actually good.  Vic was good at his job.  There were years when the Jaguars signed little free agents.  He had to spin that as positive.  He did it by confusing his readers with faulty logic.  Yes, "build through the draft" was one of his very common phrases.  The problem with his logic is that no GM in the history of the NFL has ever said "I want a terrible draft.  I am going to intentionally only take busts!"  Every team wants and tries to have a good draft.  Free agency doesn't prevent that.  We currently have 10 draft picks.  If we had signed Jonnu Smith, we would still have 10 draft picks.  In no way does that force us into bad drafting.  If anything, it might have helped our upcoming draft as it would have made it easier to go BAP and reduce the temptation to reach for a tight end out of need.  

I know some will notice that many good teams have a bunch of draft picks on their roster and not many free agents.  This is probably true.  However, Vic then wants to confuse you into believing that the lack of signing free agents caused them to be good.  That is false.  Vic is wanting you to confuse cause and effect.  If you draft well and do so consistently year after year, you'll eventually have good players coming off their rookie contracts.  That forces you to re-sign them.  If you re-sign enough of them, you won't have any money for free agency.  However, that's ok, because you drafted good players and you have them and probably at a good price.  On the other hand, if you draft poorly, you either release your draft picks, don't re-sign your draft picks or re-sign them for smaller amounts of money because that's all their worth.  As such, you will likely have more money to spend in free agency and therefore these teams will sign more free agents.  It's not that signing free agents causes you to draft badly, it's that drafting badly creates the cap space that lets you sign more free agents.  Your goal is to draft so wonderfully that you never sign another free agent.  That's the dream, but often isn't reality.  If you do miss on picks and have money under the salary cap, the smart thing is to minimize the damage by signing free agents.  It's making the best of a bad situation. You can cry over spilled milk all you want, but it doesn't put the milk back in the glass.  Not signing free agents won't magically erase past draft mistakes.

Let me walk you through an example since so many people seem confused about this concept.  

In 2017, the Jaguars drafted Leonard Fournette and the Chiefs drafted Patrick Mahomes.  Fournette was a bust and is no longer on the team.  Patrick Mahomes is arguably the best player in the NFL.  Because Fournette is no longer on the team, he costs us nothing.  Patrick Mahomes has a contract that averages $45 million per year over the length of it.  Because the Jaguars don't have that contract, they have more money under the salary cap.  Would I prefer Mahomes?  Absolutely.  Any sane person would.  However, someone has yet to invent a time machine.  We can't go back in time and draft Mahomes.  We can't trade Fournette for Mahomes.  We have to deal with the situation as it exists today.  The situation today is that we'll be saving $45 million compared to the Chiefs.  That's money we can spend on free agents.  With some of that money, they signed Shaquill Griffin for $13 million per year.  Did signing Griffin cause us to not draft Mahomes?  No!  Would not signing Griffin somehow magically let us acquire Mahomes?  No!  Did signing Griffin mean that we can't draft Trevor Lawrence and we must intentionally take busts in the draft going forward?  No!  What would have been the effect of not signing Griffin?  It would have left our roster with an inferior player at the cornerback position.  Griffin won't solve all of our problems, but it's a step in the right direction to improve the roster.  If we have the cap available (and we do), I want to take more steps to improve the roster. The goal is to get the best roster that you can.

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Vic Ketchman? the guy who was raving about Chad Henne and how we should have drafted him? LOL

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"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

Just my 2 cents but I think that the team has the BUILD through the draft, REINFORCE through free agency mind set. Build first, reinforce when your close to contention. Obviously a Team that has so many holes has to get some vets/role players in free agency to be any kind of competitive next year. Hence all the JAG signings. Once the team is actually a competitive team i think we will see more splash signings. If you try to build through free agency you end up in salary cap purgatory.

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Just my 2 cents but I think that the team has the BUILD through the draft, REINFORCE through free agency mind set. Build first, reinforce when your close to contention. Obviously a Team that has so many holes has to get some vets/role players in free agency to be any kind of competitive next year. Hence all the JAG signings. Once the team is actually a competitive team i think we will see more splash signings. If you try to build through free agency you end up in salary cap purgatory.

Yeah but we are about to get the best QB in our history, you could at least spend some money on decent OTs to protect him and TE to help him. I don't care about not signing the best defensive players but you have to help your rookie QB.

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"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

Just my 2 cents but I think that the team has the BUILD through the draft, REINFORCE through free agency mind set. Build first, reinforce when your close to contention. Obviously a Team that has so many holes has to get some vets/role players in free agency to be any kind of competitive next year. Hence all the JAG signings. Once the team is actually a competitive team i think we will see more splash signings. If you try to build through free agency you end up in salary cap purgatory.

Yeah but we are about to get the best QB in our history, you could at least spend some money on decent OTs to protect him and TE to help him. I don't care about not signing the best defensive players but you have to help your rookie QB.

Bingo!

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Yeah but we are about to get the best QB in our history, you could at least spend some money on decent OTs to protect him and TE to help him. I don't care about not signing the best defensive players but you have to help your rookie QB.

Bingo!

Very good point

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Just my 2 cents but I think that the team has the BUILD through the draft, REINFORCE through free agency mind set. Build first, reinforce when your close to contention. Obviously a Team that has so many holes has to get some vets/role players in free agency to be any kind of competitive next year. Hence all the JAG signings. Once the team is actually a competitive team i think we will see more splash signings. If you try to build through free agency you end up in salary cap purgatory.

Yeah but we are about to get the best QB in our history, you could at least spend some money on decent OTs to protect him and TE to help him. I don't care about not signing the best defensive players but you have to help your rookie QB.

You mean POTENTIALLY the best QB in our history.  Let's wait until we see him actually take a live snap in a real game before we crown him.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

I see that the "cautious, value, build through the draft" strategy that y'all biased your way to thinking was the objective from the start got blown out of the water.

Ain't no FA being done right about it...Urban wanted to get the elite guys, we just struck out plain and simple. Trevor better be suuuuuper good.

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You are clearly someone who was a long time reader of Vic Ketchman. 

...


Let me walk you through an example since so many people seem confused about this concept.  

In 2017, the Jaguars drafted Leonard Fournette and the Chiefs drafted Patrick Mahomes.  Fournette was a bust and is no longer on the team.  Patrick Mahomes is arguably the best player in the NFL.  Because Fournette is no longer on the team, he costs us nothing.  Patrick Mahomes has a contract that averages $45 million per year over the length of it.  Because the Jaguars don't have that contract, they have more money under the salary cap.  Would I prefer Mahomes?  Absolutely.  Any sane person would.  However, someone has yet to invent a time machine.  We can't go back in time and draft Mahomes.  We can't trade Fournette for Mahomes.  We have to deal with the situation as it exists today.  The situation today is that we'll be saving $45 million compared to the Chiefs.  That's money we can spend on free agents.  With some of that money, they signed Shaquill Griffin for $13 million per year.  Did signing Griffin cause us to not draft Mahomes?  No!  Would not signing Griffin somehow magically let us acquire Mahomes?  No!  Did signing Griffin mean that we can't draft Trevor Lawrence and we must intentionally take busts in the draft going forward?  No!  What would have been the effect of not signing Griffin?  It would have left our roster with an inferior player at the cornerback position.  Griffin won't solve all of our problems, but it's a step in the right direction to improve the roster.  If we have the cap available (and we do), I want to take more steps to improve the roster.  The goal is to get the best roster that you can.

You completely missed the point of build through the draft in your example.

Vic's point was that you build a roster with the picks you make - you get them cheap for a while, and if they are a hit, you can spend money on players you have already invested time and coaching into, and if you do not draft well, you will end up overpaying either with additional picks to fix the error or overpaying in FA for the marquee players. This isn't just about first rounders - it's finding guys in the entire draft that keep the roster full enough to avoid desperation. 

Take a look at Seattle. Pay close attention to KC. They are now paying a king's ransom to their QB, and that leaves them with little wiggle room financially for other players. They must be savvy either in the players that they target in FA (value is key, where you pay less for players who perform at or above players who cost more) or those that they draft. KC just released Fisher and Schwartz, and unless they've got jars on the shelf (another Vic-ism), desperation is going to force their hand. If they draft a guy who isn't ready to start right away, or simply busts, they now have to either spend a fortune to convince a FA tackle to sign with them (and probably cut a few guys to make room for him) or trade away future picks to rent someone else's OT that they were content to walk away from. They are going to have to resort on building (and maintaining) through the draft, otherwise, they will fracture their roster trying to patch all the holes that financial constraints create.

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Pff agrees

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1373043690994855937?s=19

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We will be most improved after the draft

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Lol no they don't.

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Pff agrees

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1373043690994855937?s=19

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We will be most improved after the draft

But they were 1-15. Are we not expecting them to improve?

Not hard to improve when you’re the worst in the league.

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Pff agrees

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1373043690994855937?s=19

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We will be most improved after the draft

But they were 1-15. Are we not expecting them to improve?

Not hard to improve when you’re the worst in the league.

Washington won their division and they are 2nd most improved

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Pff agrees

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1373043690994855937?s=19

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We will be most improved after the draft

But they were 1-15. Are we not expecting them to improve?

Not hard to improve when you’re the worst in the league.

It's not if we improved, it's how much have we already improved.   They are saying 3rd most before the draft even

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