Don’t be surprised if Taven don’t make the final 53..

That would be one of the least surprising developments of this offseason.

Him making the team would be a bigger shock to me.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I really wanted Hernandez with that pick and was amazed that he dropped to us. Given the need we had/have on the Oline, I was amazed that we picked a guy I’d never heard of at that spot

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Don’t be surprised if Taven don’t make the final 53..

That would be one of the least surprising developments of this offseason.

Him making the team would be a bigger shock to me.

Agree with that.  Taven has been a complete first round bust so far.  It would take a miracle to really see him develop into a quality player.

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Scary thought:  The first round pick with the most seniority on this team is Taven Bryan.

If he doesn't make the team this team, which is very possible, the first round pick with the most seniority on our 2021 roster would be 2019 selection Josh Allen.  Wow.

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In the interest of full disclosure, I will likely lodge a complaint or two after all is said and done.  But I realize that a 1-15 team will not be able to upgrade every position of need in one offseason, no matter how much I wish it could, no matter how I would have addressed them if I were making the decisions.  I just hope my/our complaints, however numerous, pale in comparison with all the picks they get spectacularly right.  I believe that to be the case for the majority of posters here.

I also believe that well reasoned complaints do not necessarily diminish board discussion.  I'm not talking about the oft contrived, contorted, and often contradictory complaints that often characterized TMDs posts.  As much as I defended him, at times his posts got to be too much.  But legitimate differences as to the wisdom (or lack of) to a team's approach is good for discussion.  No, a negative outlook isn't necessarily good for a reader of the board and a Jaguars loyalist, but nothing precludes those who view the draft favorably from voicing their approval passionately.  The "I told ya so's" that come after a bad take are just as valid and almost as fun as they are with your buddy over wings at a sports bar and are part and parcel for being a passionate fan, IMO.

I didn't mean for my prediction of a large amount of hate for this upcoming draft to imply that I oppose the criticism.  I think people should give their honest opinion and not ones that are blinded by teal colored glasses.  I know there are sheep who will like every pick.  If someone likes every single pick, then their opinion becomes worthless.  I also think Upper had a point in that the Jaguars have had a lot of bad drafts over the last decade.  Someone could have mostly been negative and also mostly been right.

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I really wanted Hernandez with that pick and was amazed that he dropped to us. Given the need we had/have on the Oline, I was amazed that we picked a guy I’d never heard of at that spot

Taven's a bust but I think there are three other things that made people more negative than they should have already from the start. 

1. It wasn't a QB. It was never going to happen but especially since it turns out that Lamar could play it's easy to say we should have picked him instead. 
2. If it wasn't a QB then people didn't see the need for D-line when we were so strong there. If he had been better it would have been a great example in the BPA vs. needs debate.
3. He was picked at 29 which is much closer to where we've picked our second round picks than the recent first round picks. There's a reason they're still available(see also Chaisson). No, all first round picks aren't equal. 

I wonder if Taven failed due to the Jaguars or if he would have failed everywhere. I think he was mocked around where we took him.

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Don’t be surprised if Taven don’t make the final 53..

That would be one of the least surprising developments of this offseason.

Him making the team would be a bigger shock to me.

I agree

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Scary thought:  The first round pick with the most seniority on this team is Taven Bryan.

If he doesn't make the team this team, which is very possible, the first round pick with the most seniority on our 2021 roster would be 2019 selection Josh Allen.  Wow.

But Caldwell was a good GM!

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In the interest of full disclosure, I will likely lodge a complaint or two after all is said and done.  But I realize that a 1-15 team will not be able to upgrade every position of need in one offseason, no matter how much I wish it could, no matter how I would have addressed them if I were making the decisions.  I just hope my/our complaints, however numerous, pale in comparison with all the picks they get spectacularly right.  I believe that to be the case for the majority of posters here.

I also believe that well reasoned complaints do not necessarily diminish board discussion.  I'm not talking about the oft contrived, contorted, and often contradictory complaints that often characterized TMDs posts.  As much as I defended him, at times his posts got to be too much.  But legitimate differences as to the wisdom (or lack of) to a team's approach is good for discussion.  No, a negative outlook isn't necessarily good for a reader of the board and a Jaguars loyalist, but nothing precludes those who view the draft favorably from voicing their approval passionately.  The "I told ya so's" that come after a bad take are just as valid and almost as fun as they are with your buddy over wings at a sports bar and are part and parcel for being a passionate fan, IMO.

I didn't mean for my prediction of a large amount of hate for this upcoming draft to imply that I oppose the criticism.  I think people should give their honest opinion and not ones that are blinded by teal colored glasses.  I know there are sheep who will like every pick.  If someone likes every single pick, then their opinion becomes worthless.  I also think Upper had a point in that the Jaguars have had a lot of bad drafts over the last decade.  Someone could have mostly been negative and also mostly been right.

I can almost guarantee you that if the Jags took the majority pick of the people on this board, the Jags would have drafted significantly better.

2020- Wirfs/Wills and then Jefferson
2019- Josh Allen
2018- Goedert or Hernandez

That’s just the last few years of players that the majority wanted if I remember. Now obviously there would be some misses from the board but I think overall, the board smashes Caldwell/Gene/Shack.

Scouts and GMs don’t hold that much more info than some people who work 9-5s. The amount of tape and data available is so much more abundant to the average/above average fan now as compared to the 80s and 90s.

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If he doesn't make the team this team, which is very possible, the first round pick with the most seniority on our 2021 roster would be 2019 selection Josh Allen.  Wow.

But Caldwell was a good GM!

That's not just Caldwell's doing.

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In the interest of full disclosure, I will likely lodge a complaint or two after all is said and done.  But I realize that a 1-15 team will not be able to upgrade every position of need in one offseason, no matter how much I wish it could, no matter how I would have addressed them if I were making the decisions.  I just hope my/our complaints, however numerous, pale in comparison with all the picks they get spectacularly right.  I believe that to be the case for the majority of posters here.

I also believe that well reasoned complaints do not necessarily diminish board discussion.  I'm not talking about the oft contrived, contorted, and often contradictory complaints that often characterized TMDs posts.  As much as I defended him, at times his posts got to be too much.  But legitimate differences as to the wisdom (or lack of) to a team's approach is good for discussion.  No, a negative outlook isn't necessarily good for a reader of the board and a Jaguars loyalist, but nothing precludes those who view the draft favorably from voicing their approval passionately.  The "I told ya so's" that come after a bad take are just as valid and almost as fun as they are with your buddy over wings at a sports bar and are part and parcel for being a passionate fan, IMO.

I didn't mean for my prediction of a large amount of hate for this upcoming draft to imply that I oppose the criticism.  I think people should give their honest opinion and not ones that are blinded by teal colored glasses.  I know there are sheep who will like every pick.  If someone likes every single pick, then their opinion becomes worthless.  I also think Upper had a point in that the Jaguars have had a lot of bad drafts over the last decade.  Someone could have mostly been negative and also mostly been right.

We've debated on message boards since the AOL days.  I know you didn't make that implication.

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I really wanted Hernandez with that pick and was amazed that he dropped to us. Given the need we had/have on the Oline, I was amazed that we picked a guy I’d never heard of at that spot

We see eye to eye on that.

I was a huge Hernandez fan.

While he hasn't reached the lofty status I predicted, he's still a better player than Taven Bryan.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I didn't mean for my prediction of a large amount of hate for this upcoming draft to imply that I oppose the criticism.  I think people should give their honest opinion and not ones that are blinded by teal colored glasses.  I know there are sheep who will like every pick.  If someone likes every single pick, then their opinion becomes worthless.  I also think Upper had a point in that the Jaguars have had a lot of bad drafts over the last decade.  Someone could have mostly been negative and also mostly been right.

I can almost guarantee you that if the Jags took the majority pick of the people on this board, the Jags would have drafted significantly better.

2020- Wirfs/Wills and then Jefferson
2019- Josh Allen
2018- Goedert or Hernandez

That’s just the last few years of players that the majority wanted if I remember. Now obviously there would be some misses from the board but I think overall, the board smashes Caldwell/Gene/Shack.

Scouts and GMs don’t hold that much more info than some people who work 9-5s. The amount of tape and data available is so much more abundant to the average/above average fan now as compared to the 80s and 90s.

It's sad that we are having this discussion.  It's sad that you could credibly make this claim.

2020-You hit the nail on the head.  Most-or at least a significant number-on this board wanted Wirfs or Wills and Jefferson.

2019-I don't know that I can agree with you here.  Not because  posters didn't have a high opinion of Allen.  To the contrary.  But virtually NOBODY thought Allen would be there for us at 7, that's why a good number of people did not advocate for him.

2018-This is fact.  Goedert andd Hernandez were popular choices.  I don't know that anyone had Bryan on their radar.

The only strong basis of disagreement here is your final statement.  Fans don't have access to the coaches or trainers.  Fans don't have access to the medical reports.  Heck, there are players that don't make the various big boards that teams scout and fans never see or hear about (Q. Williams).  But the truly sad part is despite that information disparity, it doesn't translate into better picks than fans in some instances.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I can almost guarantee you that if the Jags took the majority pick of the people on this board, the Jags would have drafted significantly better.

2020- Wirfs/Wills and then Jefferson
2019- Josh Allen
2018- Goedert or Hernandez

That’s just the last few years of players that the majority wanted if I remember. Now obviously there would be some misses from the board but I think overall, the board smashes Caldwell/Gene/Shack.

Scouts and GMs don’t hold that much more info than some people who work 9-5s. The amount of tape and data available is so much more abundant to the average/above average fan now as compared to the 80s and 90s.

It's sad that we are having this discussion.  It's sad that you could credibly make this claim.

2020-You hit the nail on the head.  Most-or at least a significant number-on this board wanted Wirfs or Wills and Jefferson.

2019-I don't know that I can agree with you here.  Not because  posters didn't have a high opinion of Allen.  To the contrary.  But virtually NOBODY thought Allen would be there for us at 7, that's why a good number of people did not advocate for him.

2018-This is fact.  Goedert andd Hernandez were popular choices.  I don't know that anyone had Bryan on their radar.

The only strong basis of disagreement here is your final statement.  Fans don't have access to the coaches or trainers.  Fans don't have access to the medical reports.  Heck, there are players that don't make the various big boards that teams scout and fans never see or hear about (Q. Williams).  But the truly sad part is despite that information disparity, it doesn't translate into better picks than fans in some instances.

To the bold, you are right. However, once Allen fell to our pick, the board went NUTS. It was as obvious as selecting Ramsey.

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Sorry to hear about your health issues, Bullseye.   I'll try to pick up the slack for you at the games.  I was a season ticket holder for a long time, but a variety of circumstances kept me from buying season tickets for the last few years.  This year, however, I will be back in the stadium, since the world will still be shut down and I will have no place else to go.  

As far as this message board goes, I expect all hell to break loose when we finally make our draft picks.  People who spend a lot of time analyzing prospects, watching game tape, and doing mock drafts get entrenched in their own draft strategy and favorite picks and there will be a lot of complaining and condemning when our picks are finally in and their favorite players are not chosen by our team.  It happens every year.  I can even tell you who it'll be doing the complaining.  

But I'm enjoying this message board more than ever this year.  It seems like we're limited to a core group of posters who are pretty knowledgeable.  And you are definitely the MVP of the past month or two.

1.  Thanks.   Greatly appreciated.   To be clear, I referenced it for context, not to elicit concern or sympathy from you guys.  It's not as if I got a terminal diagnosis or anything.  Many on here have been through far worse.  It's just bad enough to complicate some things.  Besides we all have better things to discuss than my health and flowers on a message board!  

2.  Thanks for that.  Did I trigger any incentives in my contract for that?  I want to re-negotiate my deal.  (I can see the board now..."get rid of the overrated bum.  He isn't worth it."   )

We're gonna take Vic's advice and see if we can trade you to the Panthers for a couple a firsts.

(never would we ever)

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First off, if I could give you ten rep for the OP, I certainly would. I think you're on point with a lot of the statements you posted.

I think the big reason we haven't had the draft picks are overrated debate is that we are usually in the poo-tastic position of having great need, but darft positioning leaves us in a place where we're stuck picking the leftovers. If we were at 3 or 4, I could easily see the trade-down camp screaming to the front office to move back and hoard future picks rather than taking the third or fourth best QB in the darft. I haven't gone back to confirm, but I imagine there was a lot less debate the year that Ramsey fell into our lap, too, if only because we were all but assured a top player at a position of need that also kept the hometown fans happy.

Remember the random Arky fans that showed up after Matt Jones? (There were a few gems in the bunch, for certain) I think at this point we're left with the diehards, folks that love the team no matter who's on the roster, and for a lot of the casual fans or fans of other players/teams, there's just no thrill (yet) in following their fave at the next level. I fully expect winning to bring a lot of the casual fans back into the fold. (Best of luck, mods!)

With regard to Urbz, my biggest fear is that we waited a year too long and missed the boat on the up and coming college guy with no NFL experience. Matt Rhule was a huge roll of the dice for the Panthers, but I can see it paying off, especially if they can find a QB capable of running a wide open offense before CMC is ground to a paste.

Thank you for sharing the good word about the sales office. That's an awesome gesture, and in today's world, it almost seems like the only time we hear about customer service, it's a complaint. I hope that your health affords you opportunity to enjoy Jags football for a very long time, and that the team gives you something to cheer as well.

Be warned, if anyone on the board has your details, we're going to flood your doorstep with flowers now that we know how much you love them.

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Sorry to hear about your health issues, Bullseye.   I'll try to pick up the slack for you at the games.  I was a season ticket holder for a long time, but a variety of circumstances kept me from buying season tickets for the last few years.  This year, however, I will be back in the stadium, since the world will still be shut down and I will have no place else to go.  

As far as this message board goes, I expect all hell to break loose when we finally make our draft picks.  People who spend a lot of time analyzing prospects, watching game tape, and doing mock drafts get entrenched in their own draft strategy and favorite picks and there will be a lot of complaining and condemning when our picks are finally in and their favorite players are not chosen by our team.  It happens every year.  I can even tell you who it'll be doing the complaining.  

But I'm enjoying this message board more than ever this year.  It seems like we're limited to a core group of posters who are pretty knowledgeable.  And you are definitely the MVP of the past month or two.

That said, though, the board would be boring as hell if pre-draft discussion were limited to "In Shack Gene Dave Baalke We Trust" and post draft comments were "CHAMPIONSHIP" and nothing more.

I get where you're coming from, though. Infatuation and obsession do drain the conversation.

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A good description of the dynamic often at play.

Of course, sadly, the team has not definitively proven them wrong more often than not.  This team earned 1-15 last year and losing seasons in 12 of the last 13 years (over three GMs)  by drafting and managing well. 

Scary thought:  The first round pick with the most seniority on this team is Taven Bryan.

Ugh! How did that happen?

@Alualu got the covey@

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Don’t be surprised if Taven don’t make the final 53..

surprised? I'm frickin' banking on it.

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If he doesn't make the team this team, which is very possible, the first round pick with the most seniority on our 2021 roster would be 2019 selection Josh Allen.  Wow.

But Caldwell was a good GM!

....which is why bringing TC in to micro-manage was an even bigger head-scratcher. You can't say Dave wasn't drafting good players, especially in the first. They are all doing well, just on other teams' rosters.

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It hurts when players we pick aren't developed and then show well on other teams. We have been a wasteland for way too long.

I have been getting less active in the off seasons because I just don't know the college players anymore. I do like the fans on this board and the discussions. I just can't add much in the past few years about the draft. I use to obsesse when I was watching college football.

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The Khan Years

Patience, Persistence, and Piss Poor General Managers.

Urban wants speed? Anthony Schwartz. Yea am a bit biased as I am an Auburn alum, but guy is fast. A little light and only 6' on a good day. I saw him on a few mocks that show we might get him for higher draft pick.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

Scary thought:  The first round pick with the most seniority on this team is Taven Bryan.

If he doesn't make the team this team, which is very possible, the first round pick with the most seniority on our 2021 roster would be 2019 selection Josh Allen.  Wow.

Somehow I missed this reply.  Apologies.

It's shocking.

I haven't had the energy to do so, but I've wanted to research other teams to form a basis for comparison, but I have to imagine that first round seniority thing has to be among the league's worst.

That is an indictment not only on the drafting, but on the retention end.  It does little good to actually hit on your draft picks if they are never around for second contracts.  It saps the team of talent, experience, leadership and continuity.

Assuming we draft Trevor Lawrence and we hit on the selection, we can't repeat the mistakes of the past.  He must be retained long term, along with most, if not all of those who were instrumental to his success.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Just some thoughts three weeks before the draft.

1.  As much was we debate on this message board, I agree with th poster who said Trevor Lawrence has silenced much of the pre draft debate.  Usually at this time we would have fought about tanking, who should be drafted and why, etc.  We have none of that.  Those who argued that draft position is overrated haven't made a peep about it this year.  Just about everyone has stated we are glad that we've gotten the #1 overall pick without having to trade up for it.  Ordinarily, I LOVE the debates on the board.  Most of the posters here are good for counter points and good observations, even if I don't agree on a given subject and it makes for interesting discussion.  But make no mistake, I'd much rather have a relatively harmonious and quiet board for now with the knowledge we'll get Trevor Lawrence in less than three freaking weeks!  If he plays like most people believe he will, the board traffic and dialogue will pick up rremendously in time.

2.  I think the Jaguars fan base has come a long way over the years.  For a long time, I lamented the rampant Gator homerism that dominated the fan base.  I'm talking the kind of Gator homerism that led to a 3 minute standing ovation for Chris Doering for a 2 yard, non scoring, non first down producing, nondescript catch in the 3rd quarter of a preseason game.  I'm talking the kind of homerism that led to GatorSkins, BroncGators, and Tebow petitions to the President.  But for the past few years, it's been quite common for fans to lament the possible drafting of a Gator player.  Perhaps not enough to hang banners across I-95, but it's enough for people to take notice.

3.  More than any coach I can recall, I am interested to see what the offensive approach will be.  Perhaps because we are hiring a successful college coach with no NFL experience as opposed to our other coaches who all had healthy NFL resumes when hired.  Perhaps because I didn't follow the Gator or OSU programs especially closely.  But I would really like to learn more about his offensive approach, how it will be run by a long time NFL offensive coordinator in Bevell, how it will be stocked, etc.  I guess the same curiosity is piqued defensively, since, for the first time in our team's history, we'll run a 3-4.

4.  It's unfortunate the Jaguars haven't been very successful on the field over the past 15-20 years, because despite the myriad complaints fans have voiced over the years, the Jaguars have always treated me well, and have been far more receptive to fan complaints than they've been given credit for.  I thought the wall of fame acknowledging long time season ticket holders was great, the video boards are amazing, and I've gotten a lot of swag from them over the years, including a full sized autographed replica helmet (Paul Posluzny) and an autographed mini helmet (Calais Campbell)  But besides the great memories, I think the best thing I ever got from them came today, after I told them I could not renew due to health issues.  On my doorstep, there were flowers delivered saying I will always be a part of the Jaguars family.  I'm a guy...I'm not big on getting flowers, but that was an astonishing touch by a team that didn't have to extend such a courtesy.  I wasn't a suite or even a club seat holder.  I was in many cases in the cheapest seats in the house.  I preface my closing of this paragraph by stating in this time of covid, I urge you to let your health and safety govern your decisions.  That said, if you haven't been a season ticket holder before, and have the means to do so, and your health would not be endangered by attending the games, this would be a great time for you to get season tickets.  The team is adding a guy with the potential to not only be the best QB in team history, but a hall of famer.  If all goes well, the Jaguars will offer an exciting brand of football for years to come.  But on top of that, based on my experiences, you'll be treated exceptionally well by the organization.

More to come...

I can understand how wonderful you felt to see the flowers from a class act franchise.  It shows the respect the team has for it's fans and I'm sorry to here you have health problems.  
God bless you and hope you see better days ahead.

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