You never know.  In 1974, the Steelers draft included 4 players who are now in the Hall of Fame.  In the 2000 draft, the Patriots draft was all complete busts except for one guy they drafted in the 6th round who turned out to be arguably the greatest pro football player of all time.  We don't know what's going to happen.

Bingo.

To add one more example, Seattle was trashed for their 2012 draft, which netted them two likely Hall of Famers in Bobby Wagner and Russell Wilson.

Our immediate impressions are nice to have and debate, but at the end of the day, we won't know until they prove it wither way on the field.

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The reality is no one, be it on the boards or professionals, has any idea how these drafts will be. If y’all actually watched college football this year, it took about halfway through the season for the teams that played to look like they were even approaching full stride, and that was only the teams not hit by covid. Grades, good or bad, are worthless. This draft is more off of potential than any in recent memory because this past CFB season wasn’t even a real season and had no real offseason before.

Yes.  More guesswork and speculation by teams than normal due to the circumstances.  The crap shoot became a crappier shoot.

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For kicks I looked at pff's ratings and no team got below a C-, so a B+ is more like a B- or C+ if you use stacked a ranking, which is what they should be using, and the Jaguars would be in the middle tier. Every team can't have an average or better draft when it's all from the same pool of players.

That being said, I'm not worrying about trying to evaluate the draft class right now, I'll evaluate them in the fall.

Sporting News did what you suggested here, and we ranked 17th.

We gotta wait and see.

Yes, always have to wait and see, and they put us in the middle tier of the league, which is really quite the slam for a draft that includes Trevor Lawrence. I'll do my evaluating in the fall, but given Baalke's terrible drafts in SF it might just be a case of Trevor being the nut that even a blind squirrel can find, which is what I was afraid of, when Khan announced this leadership group.

seemingly based on their evaluations coming out of highschool.

This was a bizarre thing we should be putting much more emphasis on. After the first round all 4 of the next picks were guys that there were predraft articles about how hard Meyer recruited them out of high school. I really wonder how much of the player pool was thrown out the window simply because Meyer didn't know them 4 years ago. It kind of seems like a whole lot if not most of the pool.

Yes, the seeming focus on guys he had personally met is bizarre, and seems to fit with what we know of him overall, which is that he seems to think what he did as a college coach is what it'll take to succeed in the NFL.

One thing is for sure, if the Jaguars fall on their face the next couple of season the national media is going to be all over it, and if it's bad enough we might even be in a situation where Trevor pulls a Ramsey and forces his way out, which would be tragic.

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I don’t understand some posters on this board always finding the negative and never looking at the positive.

I dunno man, I'd much rather be able to think critically and praise them when they do good (Little and Cisco) and critique them when they do bad (Etienne, most of day 3). I don't understand the people who can clap like trained seals no matter what they do. It's not like anyone in this franchise has earned the benefit of the doubt in the past fifteen years or more.

I'm not sure if it's quite as simple as guys always finding the negative.

Thinking back to the response to the 2014 draft, the response was overwhelmingly positive.  I can't recall a single poster complaining in the slightest about the 2016 draft.  The whole board was deliriously happy coming back with Ramsey and Jack with the first two picks. The only question surrounded Ngakoue at 3, because many of us had never seen/heard of him.  By the same token, people were less than enthusiastic at the 2017 first round pick (Fournette), the 2018 first round pick (Taven Bryan) and the 2020 first round picks (Henderson and Chaisson).  Heck, you don't have to go back that far.  Just look at the responses to the idea of being able to draft TL.  I can recall maybe one poster (one I've never read before or since) since December who has said the Jaguars should not draft TL.  OLine, who is often bashed as overly negative, lauded the TL pick.  He has just said that Wilson can be successful too

Sometimes the fans with the negative takes are right whether we like it or not as Jaguars fans.

To my recollection, I think many of the fans who are negative about a pick will fess up if they are wrong.  There were some who hated the Chark pick from 2018.  A lot fewer people maintain that view now.

I don't think there are any posters here who offer contrived and disingenuous arguments just to Jag bash.  I think it's done from genuine concern for the team and genuine disagreement over the direction the team takes.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

In response to Ronster:

Actually, a lot of people on the board would rather hear some positivity. What does it matter for fans to be a little overly positive now and disappointed later? Better to have some enjoyment thinking about the potential now. This is just entertainment. It’s just an escape from real life. Nothing more. So to act like everyone needs to take it as seriously as geopolitical decisions is a false argument.

You can't always get what you want. Some of us are way too into football and watch hundreds of hours of college football throughout the year via live games, recorded games and the internet. We watch players individually and really know who is a good fit for the team and who isn't. There are several really knowledgeable posters on this board when it comes to college football players and they posts on this board weekly, if not daily. I enjoy discussing football with them a lot, that is why I come to this board several times a day. Guys around here really know their stuff and obviously, they must watch as much college football as I do. It's great. We might not always agree about certain players, but we each bring our own convictions about those players, because we've watched them play and if we disagree with a choice the team has made, we have every right to voice that opinion. If you don't like it, block us. I could care less. 

What bothers me is when we get these bandwagon fans coming to the board who watch little to no college football outside of Florida. They come on here with their pom poms and their overly positive attitudes and they cheer every single pick the team makes and they expect all the other posters on the board to do the same. That's not how it works. Some people have absolutely no idea who the players are that we are picking, yet the blindly trust the coaches and front office with every decision they make. How far has that gotten us in the past? We've been one of the worst franchises in the NFL for decades, because of bad decisions by the people in charge. If some of us want to voice our complaints, we should be allowed to. We earned the right. You don't get to tell others how they should feel. If you want to be "little Mary Sunshine" you can, but don't tell others how to react to every selection. I've been a fan since the beginning. I was sitting on aluminum bleachers in 95 degree weather in Canton, Ohio when the Jags played their first exhibition game against the Panthers and I've followed them ever since. I've paid my dues and so have many other people on this board. We aren't bandwagon fans. We eat, sleep and live Jaguars football and one day, it's probably gonna kill us.

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seemingly based on their evaluations coming out of highschool.

This was a bizarre thing we should be putting much more emphasis on. After the first round all 4 of the next picks were guys that there were predraft articles about how hard Meyer recruited them out of high school. I really wonder how much of the player pool was thrown out the window simply because Meyer didn't know them 4 years ago. It kind of seems like a whole lot if not most of the pool.

I dont mind a staff overly relying on personal relationships during covid times. Getting the right personality traits is just as much part of the evaluations as physical traits
now if it continues, then yes absolutely its concerning. But with so much of this being zoom meetings, its hard for me to fault them too much. Its not like the players selected were too different from their available peers
And I have no doubt the maniacal Urban has been keeping tabs on every player hes recruited and the scope of evaluation is greater than a meet 4 years ago.

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The reality is no one, be it on the boards or professionals, has any idea how these drafts will be. If y’all actually watched college football this year, it took about halfway through the season for the teams that played to look like they were even approaching full stride, and that was only the teams not hit by covid. Grades, good or bad, are worthless. This draft is more off of potential than any in recent memory because this past CFB season wasn’t even a real season and had no real offseason before.

Very well said.

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I think there are some competing factors here as to why maybe the board has lower opinion than the national media.  First, I think most fans here are looking at this as a 2 part draft.  Trevor Lawrence and then the rest of the draft.  Everyone on the planet, aside from Chris SImms and the families of the other top QB prospects, would have taken Lawrence first.  Obviously he is an A+ but the reaction of most fans on this board is really a grade on the rest of the draft.  Second factor is that we all know the national media (including the supposed football experts) don't know much about the Jags.  We've all read articles or seen segments on TV where they clearly haven't done their homework.  And while that should be somewhat mitigated here because these grades are more about the college prospects and less about the Jags, the needs of the team, the type of offense / defense the team wants to run is a factor, etc.. do play a part in these grades.  And honestly I'd follow the combined judgement and wisdom of the better posters on this board than I would any talking head that isn't based on Jacksonville.

As far as this draft, I'll admit I'm a little underwhelmed after the Lawrence pick.  Specifically our next 4 picks across Day 1 and 2 and less so Day 3 as those players taken round 4 and beyond are typically more of a longshot.  Ironically it seems like Etienne is driving down our grades nationally while I can argue for that pick more than the others.  I'm not a huge fan of Etienne at that spot but not because of the typical criticism about taking a RB in the first.   That pick needs to be thought of as a taking a playmaker who can run out of the backfield, can catch the ball in the flat or even out of the slot, and someone who can be thought of as a gamebreaker.  Who cares if he is called RB or WR.  So many good players these days are versatile that the position name is a little more irrelevant.  I just have doubts if he is truly the gamebreaker they think he is.  

Tyson Campbell seems like the oddest pick to me.  So early in the draft to take a guy who was a decent player in college but not great and you're hoping the potential of his elite level size and straight line speed can be realized.  There were other players available that also had really good potential but were actually better college football players so you know they were closer to that fulfilling that potential.  Then combine the fact that it's at a position which is one of the few we don't have a desperate need and it feels like a strange pick so early in the second.  Not necessarily a need or value pick.  And of course digging more into the player, the extremely poor short shuttle and 3 cone tests puts into question his agility and will he be limited to an outside corner only.  

Walker Little I understand the idea.  I made the comment on another thread that Gene Smith loved the idea of taking small school guys that would have been rated higher had they played at higher levels of competition but he always seemed to overdraft them as if they had.  I didnt love the strategy but at least I understand it.  And with Baalke we all talked about this beforehand that with the Niners he loved taking injured players that would have gone much higher had they not been.  Again I understand the logic of the strategy.  I like that strategy better with 4th and 5th round players as opposed to doing that in the 2nd round.  I dont believe any of Baalke's ACL picks with the Niners ever came close to living up to potential.  Tank Carradine being the only 2nd rounder and he was never close to what he was beforehand.  Little supposedly had a great sophomore year.  Blew a knee.  No one has seen him play since.  Hopefully he'll regain the form he had two years ago.  And if so, he could be a huge steal in this draft.  But for a team that went 1-15 and has a lot of holes, sure seems like there were better options.  Similar players at the same position that werent hurt.  This feels like the ultimate luxury pick that a team without a lot of holes can make.

Cisco same story. Another ACL tear and no one has seen him play since.  Hopefully he regains his form as well.  Even without the ACL tear it sounds like there were some questions about him.  Made a bunch of big plays but due to propensity to gamble would also give up a bunch of big players.  Unlike Little who blew his knee out a year and a half ago, Cisco blew his out early last season.  Seems like guys come back from ACL tears pretty quickly these days but do we know if he'll be ready for the beginning of the season?  Even if so may take him some time to feel fully secure in that knee.  Even if he were to have a disappointing year in 2021, would probably be unfair to put a label on him.  Again another luxury pick for a team with a lot of needs.

The rest of the draft seems fine for day 3 I guess.  Always getting a guy that has some weakness.  Either great athlete but not great football player, vice versa so maybe limited potential, etc, etc...  I admittedly don't know much about the guy from USC.  Fills a need, seems solid.  Saw a conflicting reports on whether he can hold up in the run which is basically what we'll need out of dlineman.  Felt like they had to take the best dlineman as they passed on that position first two days.  There were other players I liked more but I'm not Nostradamus.  Felt like they were trying to fill needs in round 4 and not sure they got the best value there.  We'll see.

Overall I do feel underwhelmed.  I'm not expecting much from Little and Cisco this first year.  Little because he'll need to prove he is 100% healthy and will then have to beat out Cam and Jawaan.  Cisco I don't know what his recovery status is and if he'll be 100% during the season.  Not a given either starts or will see the field much.  Campbell will probably play a bit as 5-6 DBs on the field is almost the standard now.  Barring injury, I doubt he'll be a top two starter.  And if he isn't agile enough for the slot, does he get in on nickel downs though?  Would they kick Henderson or Shaq inside?  Sidney and Herndon are solid nickel corners already.  Will be interesting to see how much time he gets and if he becomes a better pro player than he was a college one.  Etienne will likely give us the most production of any of these early picks. I hope is the gamebreaking playmaker they want him to be.  I bet he gets a lot of playing time and will be fun to see how they use him.  I do have questions if he is gonna be that explosive playmaker which I could spend a few more paragraphs discussing... wrote about him in the specific Etienne thread.  

Anyways for a team that has a lot of weaknesses and had a bunch of early round draft picks, it feels odd walking away from this thinking that we might not see much impact from the majority of these players.  You look back and wonder how this happened.

This post makes perfect sense and comes from someone who is a long time poster that nobody associates with being perpetually negative.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I think there are some competing factors here as to why maybe the board has lower opinion than the national media.  First, I think most fans here are looking at this as a 2 part draft.  Trevor Lawrence and then the rest of the draft.  Everyone on the planet, aside from Chris SImms and the families of the other top QB prospects, would have taken Lawrence first.  Obviously he is an A+ but the reaction of most fans on this board is really a grade on the rest of the draft.  Second factor is that we all know the national media (including the supposed football experts) don't know much about the Jags.  We've all read articles or seen segments on TV where they clearly haven't done their homework.  And while that should be somewhat mitigated here because these grades are more about the college prospects and less about the Jags, the needs of the team, the type of offense / defense the team wants to run is a factor, etc.. do play a part in these grades.  And honestly I'd follow the combined judgement and wisdom of the better posters on this board than I would any talking head that isn't based on Jacksonville.

As far as this draft, I'll admit I'm a little underwhelmed after the Lawrence pick.  Specifically our next 4 picks across Day 1 and 2 and less so Day 3 as those players taken round 4 and beyond are typically more of a longshot.  Ironically it seems like Etienne is driving down our grades nationally while I can argue for that pick more than the others.  I'm not a huge fan of Etienne at that spot but not because of the typical criticism about taking a RB in the first.   That pick needs to be thought of as a taking a playmaker who can run out of the backfield, can catch the ball in the flat or even out of the slot, and someone who can be thought of as a gamebreaker.  Who cares if he is called RB or WR.  So many good players these days are versatile that the position name is a little more irrelevant.  I just have doubts if he is truly the gamebreaker they think he is.  

Tyson Campbell seems like the oddest pick to me.  So early in the draft to take a guy who was a decent player in college but not great and you're hoping the potential of his elite level size and straight line speed can be realized.  There were other players available that also had really good potential but were actually better college football players so you know they were closer to that fulfilling that potential.  Then combine the fact that it's at a position which is one of the few we don't have a desperate need and it feels like a strange pick so early in the second.  Not necessarily a need or value pick.  And of course digging more into the player, the extremely poor short shuttle and 3 cone tests puts into question his agility and will he be limited to an outside corner only.  

Walker Little I understand the idea.  I made the comment on another thread that Gene Smith loved the idea of taking small school guys that would have been rated higher had they played at higher levels of competition but he always seemed to overdraft them as if they had.  I didnt love the strategy but at least I understand it.  And with Baalke we all talked about this beforehand that with the Niners he loved taking injured players that would have gone much higher had they not been.  Again I understand the logic of the strategy.  I like that strategy better with 4th and 5th round players as opposed to doing that in the 2nd round.  I dont believe any of Baalke's ACL picks with the Niners ever came close to living up to potential.  Tank Carradine being the only 2nd rounder and he was never close to what he was beforehand.  Little supposedly had a great sophomore year.  Blew a knee.  No one has seen him play since.  Hopefully he'll regain the form he had two years ago.  And if so, he could be a huge steal in this draft.  But for a team that went 1-15 and has a lot of holes, sure seems like there were better options.  Similar players at the same position that werent hurt.  This feels like the ultimate luxury pick that a team without a lot of holes can make.

Cisco same story. Another ACL tear and no one has seen him play since.  Hopefully he regains his form as well.  Even without the ACL tear it sounds like there were some questions about him.  Made a bunch of big plays but due to propensity to gamble would also give up a bunch of big players.  Unlike Little who blew his knee out a year and a half ago, Cisco blew his out early last season.  Seems like guys come back from ACL tears pretty quickly these days but do we know if he'll be ready for the beginning of the season?  Even if so may take him some time to feel fully secure in that knee.  Even if he were to have a disappointing year in 2021, would probably be unfair to put a label on him.  Again another luxury pick for a team with a lot of needs.

The rest of the draft seems fine for day 3 I guess.  Always getting a guy that has some weakness.  Either great athlete but not great football player, vice versa so maybe limited potential, etc, etc...  I admittedly don't know much about the guy from USC.  Fills a need, seems solid.  Saw a conflicting reports on whether he can hold up in the run which is basically what we'll need out of dlineman.  Felt like they had to take the best dlineman as they passed on that position first two days.  There were other players I liked more but I'm not Nostradamus.  Felt like they were trying to fill needs in round 4 and not sure they got the best value there.  We'll see.

Overall I do feel underwhelmed.  I'm not expecting much from Little and Cisco this first year.  Little because he'll need to prove he is 100% healthy and will then have to beat out Cam and Jawaan.  Cisco I don't know what his recovery status is and if he'll be 100% during the season.  Not a given either starts or will see the field much.  Campbell will probably play a bit as 5-6 DBs on the field is almost the standard now.  Barring injury, I doubt he'll be a top two starter.  And if he isn't agile enough for the slot, does he get in on nickel downs though?  Would they kick Henderson or Shaq inside?  Sidney and Herndon are solid nickel corners already.  Will be interesting to see how much time he gets and if he becomes a better pro player than he was a college one.  Etienne will likely give us the most production of any of these early picks. I hope is the gamebreaking playmaker they want him to be.  I bet he gets a lot of playing time and will be fun to see how they use him.  I do have questions if he is gonna be that explosive playmaker which I could spend a few more paragraphs discussing... wrote about him in the specific Etienne thread.  

Anyways for a team that has a lot of weaknesses and had a bunch of early round draft picks, it feels odd walking away from this thinking that we might not see much impact from the majority of these players.  You look back and wonder how this happened.

Good post. It is clear that the Jaguars were drafting with their eyes beyond the 2021-22 season. They could have definitely taken players who would have helped them more next season , but with not nearly the long-term potential. Campbell and Little are the best examples of this.

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In response to Ronster:

Actually, a lot of people on the board would rather hear some positivity. What does it matter for fans to be a little overly positive now and disappointed later? Better to have some enjoyment thinking about the potential now. This is just entertainment. It’s just an escape from real life. Nothing more. So to act like everyone needs to take it as seriously as geopolitical decisions is a false argument.

But under this rationale, what's the harm in an honest but negative analysis?

My thing is if I disagree with a take-good or bad-I offer my reasons why, they defend their position, then ultimately it's resolved on the field.  Maybe there's some ribbing along the way or afterwards.

That makes it fun and interesting.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

In response to Ronster:

Actually, a lot of people on the board would rather hear some positivity. What does it matter for fans to be a little overly positive now and disappointed later? Better to have some enjoyment thinking about the potential now. This is just entertainment. It’s just an escape from real life. Nothing more. So to act like everyone needs to take it as seriously as geopolitical decisions is a false argument.

But under this rationale, what's the harm in an honest but negative analysis?

My thing is if I disagree with a take-good or bad-I offer my reasons why, they defend their position, then ultimately it's resolved on the field.  Maybe there's some ribbing along the way or afterwards.

That makes it fun and interesting.

Nothing wrong with the criticism at all, make the criticism, talk about it.. But some of these people drone on it. It goes on and on and on and on, over and over and over and over. It even spills out into other threads. When it gets to that point, it's no longer criticism, it's whining and crying. It's pathetic and unnecessary.

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I dont know much but I do know underwhelming is an understatement for 18 ish years of Jaguars football. No choice but to give the new folks time to see how it goes. It is going to be tough because we are all tad sour from years of wasted rosters.

The mirage of 2017 is so tough because the defense played lights out. Bortles had a 5 game stretch and the playoffs where he looked the part. The past decade has been mind numbing and produced so much apathy in me. I really hope we can stop being a talent placeholder for other teams.

This was the Trevor and then everyone else draft. Need more time to see what happens. I am at desperation phase for a turn around.

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The Khan Years

Patience, Persistence, and Piss Poor General Managers.

But under this rationale, what's the harm in an honest but negative analysis?

My thing is if I disagree with a take-good or bad-I offer my reasons why, they defend their position, then ultimately it's resolved on the field.  Maybe there's some ribbing along the way or afterwards.

That makes it fun and interesting.

Nothing wrong with the criticism at all, make the criticism, talk about it.. But some of these people drone on it. It goes on and on and on and on, over and over and over and over. It even spills out into other threads. When it gets to that point, it's no longer criticism, it's whining and crying. It's pathetic and unnecessary.

Like you do in the political section? What's the difference? You are passionate about politics and are constantly complaining about it and some of us are more into football and complain when our football team makes selections we disagree with. I really don't see the difference. Whether you see it or not, we are very similar. We just are zealous about different things.

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In response to Ronster:

Actually, a lot of people on the board would rather hear some positivity. What does it matter for fans to be a little overly positive now and disappointed later? Better to have some enjoyment thinking about the potential now. This is just entertainment. It’s just an escape from real life. Nothing more. So to act like everyone needs to take it as seriously as geopolitical decisions is a false argument.

You can't always get what you want. Some of us are way too into football and watch hundreds of hours of college football throughout the year via live games, recorded games and the internet. We watch players individually and really know who is a good fit for the team and who isn't. There are several really knowledgeable posters on this board when it comes to college football players and they posts on this board weekly, if not daily. I enjoy discussing football with them a lot, that is why I come to this board several times a day. Guys around here really know their stuff and obviously, they must watch as much college football as I do. It's great. We might not always agree about certain players, but we each bring our own convictions about those players, because we've watched them play and if we disagree with a choice the team has made, we have every right to voice that opinion. If you don't like it, block us. I could care less. 

What bothers me is when we get these bandwagon fans coming to the board who watch little to no college football outside of Florida. They come on here with their pom poms and their overly positive attitudes and they cheer every single pick the team makes and they expect all the other posters on the board to do the same. That's not how it works. Some people have absolutely no idea who the players are that we are picking, yet the blindly trust the coaches and front office with every decision they make. How far has that gotten us in the past? We've been one of the worst franchises in the NFL for decades, because of bad decisions by the people in charge. If some of us want to voice our complaints, we should be allowed to. We earned the right. You don't get to tell others how they should feel. If you want to be "little Mary Sunshine" you can, but don't tell others how to react to every selection. I've been a fan since the beginning. I was sitting on aluminum bleachers in 95 degree weather in Canton, Ohio when the Jags played their first exhibition game against the Panthers and I've followed them ever since. I've paid my dues and so have many other people on this board. We aren't bandwagon fans. We eat, sleep and live Jaguars football and one day, it's probably gonna kill us.

Agreed completely.

I understand wanting to read positive things about your team.   As someone who reads a lot of football stuff, the Jaguars bashing is tiresome and a respite from it is welcome.

I understand the whole escapism take.

But with that, I can't understand aversion to the truth, even if unpleasant.  The fact is, as desperately as we all want the Jaguars to be the very best team ever, the results have been the furthest from that-literally.  No amount of positivity can erase or conceal that.  What I can't understand is the suppression of honest and informed conviction.

As long as a take is honest, offered in good faith and is reasonably well informed, I welcome it, good or bad.  Even if I disagree and express my reasons why, it helps get me through the hell of football withdrawal in the offseason, and enhances the experience of football season.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Nothing wrong with the criticism at all, make the criticism, talk about it.. But some of these people drone on it. It goes on and on and on and on, over and over and over and over. It even spills out into other threads. When it gets to that point, it's no longer criticism, it's whining and crying. It's pathetic and unnecessary.

Like you do in the political section? What's the difference? You are passionate about politics and are constantly complaining about it and some of us are more into football and complain when our football team makes selections we disagree with. I really don't see the difference. Whether you see it or not, we are very similar. We just are zealous about different things.

Where have I droned on and on in ANY section of this message board, please produce.. I make my comment and bolt.. Proof please..

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You can't always get what you want. Some of us are way too into football and watch hundreds of hours of college football throughout the year via live games, recorded games and the internet. We watch players individually and really know who is a good fit for the team and who isn't. There are several really knowledgeable posters on this board when it comes to college football players and they posts on this board weekly, if not daily. I enjoy discussing football with them a lot, that is why I come to this board several times a day. Guys around here really know their stuff and obviously, they must watch as much college football as I do. It's great. We might not always agree about certain players, but we each bring our own convictions about those players, because we've watched them play and if we disagree with a choice the team has made, we have every right to voice that opinion. If you don't like it, block us. I could care less. 

What bothers me is when we get these bandwagon fans coming to the board who watch little to no college football outside of Florida. They come on here with their pom poms and their overly positive attitudes and they cheer every single pick the team makes and they expect all the other posters on the board to do the same. That's not how it works. Some people have absolutely no idea who the players are that we are picking, yet the blindly trust the coaches and front office with every decision they make. How far has that gotten us in the past? We've been one of the worst franchises in the NFL for decades, because of bad decisions by the people in charge. If some of us want to voice our complaints, we should be allowed to. We earned the right. You don't get to tell others how they should feel. If you want to be "little Mary Sunshine" you can, but don't tell others how to react to every selection. I've been a fan since the beginning. I was sitting on aluminum bleachers in 95 degree weather in Canton, Ohio when the Jags played their first exhibition game against the Panthers and I've followed them ever since. I've paid my dues and so have many other people on this board. We aren't bandwagon fans. We eat, sleep and live Jaguars football and one day, it's probably gonna kill us.

Agreed completely.

I understand wanting to read positive things about your team.   As someone who reads a lot of football stuff, the Jaguars bashing is tiresome and a respite from it is welcome.

I understand the whole escapism take.

But with that, I can't understand aversion to the truth, even if unpleasant.  The fact is, as desperately as we all want the Jaguars to be the very best team ever, the results have been the furthest from that-literally.  No amount of positivity can erase or conceal that.  What I can't understand is the suppression of honest and informed conviction.

As long as a take is honest, offered in good faith and is reasonably well informed, I welcome it, good or bad.  Even if I disagree and express my reasons why, it helps get me through the hell of football withdrawal in the offseason, and enhances the experience of football season.

Well said, as always, Bullseye. You are constantly the voice of reason on this board.

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They are grading our class with it including the best QB prospect in a decade so that is obviously going to boost our grade a ton by itself, as it should in a vaccum. However, I am not giving our FO credit for making the pick that my mother in law who knows nothing about football repeatedly congratulated me for over the last few months.

Just like last year, we're going to get higher grades simply because we had more high picks than anyone else. On a quantity level we did fine. On a per pick value, talent, and opportunity cost basis we had one of the worst drafts.

We had two good picks, but both of them being riskier than your usual highlights of a class, in Little and Cisco. Two decent picks in Campbell and Tufele. One good (not great) player at horrible value and opportunity cost with Etienne. And then a bunch of whatever after pick 106. I do like taking the stab on Camp, but the odds he makes it are still really long.

The only problem I have with this  is the opportunity cost analysis.

All of those guys we discussed at 25 were still there for us at 33.  To me, that's a sign they evaluated and ranked the boards properly at that stage of the draft.  From a pure talent standpoint, few people believe Etienne was not worthy of a late 1st round pick.  All of those guys came off the board after 33 and before 45.  The "opportunity" wasn't lost until after 33.  But with that, it's not as though we didn't get a good player at 33.  An unexpected one, perhaps.  A guy at a position of relative strength, perhaps.

I really believe the Campbell selection was due to a combination of the belief he will improve his ball skills (making him a 1st round talent) and the concerns about D.J. Henderson. If the rumors are true about him, then selecting Campbell at 33 makes a lot of sense. I hope they are rumors and nothing more since that would make Caldwell's selection of him no better than the Taven Bryan pick.

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Like you do in the political section? What's the difference? You are passionate about politics and are constantly complaining about it and some of us are more into football and complain when our football team makes selections we disagree with. I really don't see the difference. Whether you see it or not, we are very similar. We just are zealous about different things.

Where have I droned on and on in ANY section of this message board, please produce.. I make my comment and bolt.. Proof please..

You just want to bait me into cutting and pasting political stuff you have said on here, so I will get a warning. I'm not doing it. You know what you've said. I'm leaving it at that. This section is for football talk only.

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Where have I droned on and on in ANY section of this message board, please produce.. I make my comment and bolt.. Proof please..

You just want to bait me into cutting and pasting political stuff you have said on here, so I will get a warning. I'm not doing it. You know what you've said. I'm leaving it at that. This section is for football talk only.

No, I want you to backup what you claim, that's all.

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You just want to bait me into cutting and pasting political stuff you have said on here, so I will get a warning. I'm not doing it. You know what you've said. I'm leaving it at that. This section is for football talk only.

No, I want you to backup what you claim, that's all.

Go look at your own posts. You are constantly bashing people who disagreed with you. That's basically what you are known for. We just talk football in this section.

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No, I want you to backup what you claim, that's all.

Go look at your own posts. You are constantly bashing people who disagreed with you. That's basically what you are known for. We just talk football in this section.

Already ahead of you. I made 3 comments in the political section in the past week.. Doesn't seem like droning on and on to me.. How about you?

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I think there are some competing factors here as to why maybe the board has lower opinion than the national media.  First, I think most fans here are looking at this as a 2 part draft.  Trevor Lawrence and then the rest of the draft.  Everyone on the planet, aside from Chris SImms and the families of the other top QB prospects, would have taken Lawrence first.  Obviously he is an A+ but the reaction of most fans on this board is really a grade on the rest of the draft.  Second factor is that we all know the national media (including the supposed football experts) don't know much about the Jags.  We've all read articles or seen segments on TV where they clearly haven't done their homework.  And while that should be somewhat mitigated here because these grades are more about the college prospects and less about the Jags, the needs of the team, the type of offense / defense the team wants to run is a factor, etc.. do play a part in these grades.  And honestly I'd follow the combined judgement and wisdom of the better posters on this board than I would any talking head that isn't based on Jacksonville.

As far as this draft, I'll admit I'm a little underwhelmed after the Lawrence pick.  Specifically our next 4 picks across Day 1 and 2 and less so Day 3 as those players taken round 4 and beyond are typically more of a longshot.  Ironically it seems like Etienne is driving down our grades nationally while I can argue for that pick more than the others.  I'm not a huge fan of Etienne at that spot but not because of the typical criticism about taking a RB in the first.   That pick needs to be thought of as a taking a playmaker who can run out of the backfield, can catch the ball in the flat or even out of the slot, and someone who can be thought of as a gamebreaker.  Who cares if he is called RB or WR.  So many good players these days are versatile that the position name is a little more irrelevant.  I just have doubts if he is truly the gamebreaker they think he is.  

Tyson Campbell seems like the oddest pick to me.  So early in the draft to take a guy who was a decent player in college but not great and you're hoping the potential of his elite level size and straight line speed can be realized.  There were other players available that also had really good potential but were actually better college football players so you know they were closer to that fulfilling that potential.  Then combine the fact that it's at a position which is one of the few we don't have a desperate need and it feels like a strange pick so early in the second.  Not necessarily a need or value pick.  And of course digging more into the player, the extremely poor short shuttle and 3 cone tests puts into question his agility and will he be limited to an outside corner only.  

Walker Little I understand the idea.  I made the comment on another thread that Gene Smith loved the idea of taking small school guys that would have been rated higher had they played at higher levels of competition but he always seemed to overdraft them as if they had.  I didnt love the strategy but at least I understand it.  And with Baalke we all talked about this beforehand that with the Niners he loved taking injured players that would have gone much higher had they not been.  Again I understand the logic of the strategy.  I like that strategy better with 4th and 5th round players as opposed to doing that in the 2nd round.  I dont believe any of Baalke's ACL picks with the Niners ever came close to living up to potential.  Tank Carradine being the only 2nd rounder and he was never close to what he was beforehand.  Little supposedly had a great sophomore year.  Blew a knee.  No one has seen him play since.  Hopefully he'll regain the form he had two years ago.  And if so, he could be a huge steal in this draft.  But for a team that went 1-15 and has a lot of holes, sure seems like there were better options.  Similar players at the same position that werent hurt.  This feels like the ultimate luxury pick that a team without a lot of holes can make.

Cisco same story. Another ACL tear and no one has seen him play since.  Hopefully he regains his form as well.  Even without the ACL tear it sounds like there were some questions about him.  Made a bunch of big plays but due to propensity to gamble would also give up a bunch of big players.  Unlike Little who blew his knee out a year and a half ago, Cisco blew his out early last season.  Seems like guys come back from ACL tears pretty quickly these days but do we know if he'll be ready for the beginning of the season?  Even if so may take him some time to feel fully secure in that knee.  Even if he were to have a disappointing year in 2021, would probably be unfair to put a label on him.  Again another luxury pick for a team with a lot of needs.

The rest of the draft seems fine for day 3 I guess.  Always getting a guy that has some weakness.  Either great athlete but not great football player, vice versa so maybe limited potential, etc, etc...  I admittedly don't know much about the guy from USC.  Fills a need, seems solid.  Saw a conflicting reports on whether he can hold up in the run which is basically what we'll need out of dlineman.  Felt like they had to take the best dlineman as they passed on that position first two days.  There were other players I liked more but I'm not Nostradamus.  Felt like they were trying to fill needs in round 4 and not sure they got the best value there.  We'll see.

Overall I do feel underwhelmed.  I'm not expecting much from Little and Cisco this first year.  Little because he'll need to prove he is 100% healthy and will then have to beat out Cam and Jawaan.  Cisco I don't know what his recovery status is and if he'll be 100% during the season.  Not a given either starts or will see the field much.  Campbell will probably play a bit as 5-6 DBs on the field is almost the standard now.  Barring injury, I doubt he'll be a top two starter.  And if he isn't agile enough for the slot, does he get in on nickel downs though?  Would they kick Henderson or Shaq inside?  Sidney and Herndon are solid nickel corners already.  Will be interesting to see how much time he gets and if he becomes a better pro player than he was a college one.  Etienne will likely give us the most production of any of these early picks. I hope is the gamebreaking playmaker they want him to be.  I bet he gets a lot of playing time and will be fun to see how they use him.  I do have questions if he is gonna be that explosive playmaker which I could spend a few more paragraphs discussing... wrote about him in the specific Etienne thread.  

Anyways for a team that has a lot of weaknesses and had a bunch of early round draft picks, it feels odd walking away from this thinking that we might not see much impact from the majority of these players.  You look back and wonder how this happened.

On long shots, we all thought the same crap even worse with the drafting of Myles Jack the heat the Jags took for taking that pick.... but now all these people that were at arms about now round cry #jackwasntdown if there is any team who I would trust about knee injuries is the Jags ... Just like you want to rip them for past picks ..praise them when they know exactly what they are doing.

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