2: It sounds weird to say, but where would Julio fit on this team?  It feels like at his age, he is just a plus version of Chark and on the decline.  Chark appears to be ascending.  Building plays around Julio probably just takes opportunities from Chark to build a connection with Lawrence.  Trading Shenault means we are down a truly dynamic receiver as far as YAC with a unique skill set.  We have a great mix of WR talent, I don't think investing what it takes to acquire Julio makes sense.

3: I definitely feel the same as you on the Campbell pick.  Usually reactions like that are the result of expectations built over many months not matching reality.  Some of the players falling out of Round 1 were guys I hoped for at pick 25.  They fit obvious needs and to my untrained eye looked like true first round talents.  They obviously feel very strongly that Campbell is a superior talent/ value.  He certainly was not a need selection.  Hopefully they are right, but it is tough to get excited about a player when you start from a place of disappointment.

4: I would be willing to trade for a young pass catching TE if one comes available.  Njoku is probably the most obvious, but maybe NY is ready to move on from Evan Engram.  I would prefer not to go after an older TE since we aren't going anywhere this year.  It just feels like a waste to add a player like Ertz at this point in his career.

7:  You mentioned video games in a later post.  Please don't take offense, but I assumed you were past video game age based on some of your fantastic football history knowledge/ perspective.  What type of games do you like?  I'm sure our fellow posters can help you find fun options to pass the dead zone.

2. If this team were 2 years further along (or even 1 year if Lawrence is the real deal early) i'd say yes. But give the age, the money and the fact that he only played 8 games last year with a lingering injury i'm gonna pass. There's nothing that Julio does as far as veteran leadership we can't get out of MJJ and nothing receiving wise that Chark can't grow into (at this point in Julio's career well north of 30 that is)

3. Yea, i was expecting this pick to be an impact player at a key position of need, specifically offensive line. In hindsight Walker Little was their guy and they were targeting him where we got him so if they knew they were going to address it later in the round I can kind of understand. Campbell was BAP for them and has all the athletic tools, it's good to know we have depth at CB for this first time since 2017, and he'll be used at nickel and SS as well. considering Henderson showed potential and was drafted high last year, it was just surprising to see them go CB after that AND signing Griffin I guess

4. I'd make the trade for Ertz, I think he just needs a change of scenery. If the Giants are willing to just give away Engram for a midrounder i'm willing to take a flyer on him

7. Break down film. When you eventually get bored of that, look ahead to the 2022 draft. put together a top 100 and try and see how it matches up with the Jaguars remaining needs; always fun to speculate on that.

2.  Inclined to agree here.  I still think he would be too old to trade for, but a team 2 years further in its development would be far better equipped to make a trade for him than our current team.  I also think a year in which we had extra picks in each round would be a better time to make such a move.  But under our current circumstances, trading for Julio Jones, as great as he has been over the years-would not be in this team's best interests.

3.  Thing is I'm not sure if my desire for OL at that spot is what's driving my lack of enthusiasm over the pick.  That may be part of it, but I'm not sure.  I was a Jenkins advocate, and I felt both tackles could use upgrading.  We got little just after the pick, and I guess it's possible that he could upgrade at least one of the T positions.  Usually by this time, if I weren't vehemently opposed to the pick pre draft, I would at least be eager to see.  But right now I nothing registers for me and I can't explain why.

4.  Not sure what's happened with Engram or Njoku.  Neither of them has had the kind of impact I expected them to have, though Engram managed to make his first Pro Bowl last year.  Ertz has had a very good career thius but I see him much like I saw Tyler Eifert.  If he has anything left in the tank, he would be a decent get for us at the right price.

7. (rufftime) No offense taken.  Perhaps I should be past the video game phase...but a) I am still in many respects a kid at heart;  b)  Nobody would bat an eye if an old guy played chess (which I play), golf (do NOT play)f, poker (do NOT play), etc.  If technology affords me the option of playing video games, why shouldn't I?  If they were the old shoot em up games of old like Galaga or Centipede, etc., perhaps I would have moved on by now.  By the games of today are so much more advanced, have sophisticated plots, character development, and variations of strategy and puzzles to solve, it keeps things fresh.  They are in many instances like interactive movies.  I play PS4 and some PS3 games, though I use it as much for streaming as I do games..  Have not gotten a PS5.  Play Madden and the Naughty Dog games (The Last of Us, the Uncharted series-currently on 4), Far Cry 3 and 5, Witcher III.  Over the years, I have also enjoyed the Hitman, Fallout and Romance of the Three Kingdons series.  Had to reboot my system so a lost my progress in most of those games. (Apologies for the wrong forum post)

(Firesky)  That's actually a good idea.  I had already started looking at TEs (The guys from Iowa State and Wisconsin).  I will probably shift my focus onto offensive and defensive linemen and LBs before too long.  I'm just glad for once we don't have to look at QBs so closely.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

3.  Thing is I'm not sure if my desire for OL at that spot is what's driving my lack of enthusiasm over the pick.  That may be part of it, but I'm not sure.  I was a Jenkins advocate, and I felt both tackles could use upgrading.  We got little just after the pick, and I guess it's possible that he could upgrade at least one of the T positions.  Usually by this time, if I weren't vehemently opposed to the pick pre draft, I would at least be eager to see.  But right now I nothing registers for me and I can't explain why.

7. (rufftime) No offense taken.  Perhaps I should be past the video game phase...but a) I am still in many respects a kid at heart;  b)  Nobody would bat an eye if an old guy played chess (which I play), golf (do NOT play)f, poker (do NOT play), etc.  If technology affords me the option of playing video games, why shouldn't I?  If they were the old shoot em up games of old like Galaga or Centipede, etc., perhaps I would have moved on by now.  By the games of today are so much more advanced, have sophisticated plots, character development, and variations of strategy and puzzles to solve, it keeps things fresh.  They are in many instances like interactive movies.  I play PS4 and some PS3 games, though I use it as much for streaming as I do games..  Have not gotten a PS5.  Play Madden and the Naughty Dog games (The Last of Us, the Uncharted series-currently on 4), Far Cry 3 and 5, Witcher III.  Over the years, I have also enjoyed the Hitman, Fallout and Romance of the Three Kingdons series.  Had to reboot my system so a lost my progress in most of those games. (Apologies for the wrong forum post)

(Firesky)  That's actually a good idea.  I had already started looking at TEs (The guys from Iowa State and Wisconsin).  I will probably shift my focus onto offensive and defensive linemen and LBs before too long.  I'm just glad for once we don't have to look at QBs so closely.

3. I know personally if we had not drafted Lawrence, I would not be thrilled with this offseason. Happy to be proven wrong, but to me it looks like we are heading down the path of Ryan Grigson’s Colts. An absolute gimme pick at QB number one overall that will not be good enough to overcome a weak administration. However, I think he will be good enough to make them look good in the short term until we hit the wall in the playoffs year after year.

7. On the video game point: if you like games like Fallout and Witcher, you may like “The Outer Worlds.” The story is great! It is a game you can really dive into. Lots of hours of game play to pass the dead zone.

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Point 7. Anyone play MK11 online? It's how I'm filling the off season.

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3.  Admittedly this view is unfair to the team and to the player, but of all the draft picks in the first 3-4 rounds, perhaps the one I am the least enthusiastic about is second round pick Tyson Campbell.  It's not as though I was initially opposed to the pick like I was Chaisson last year.  I'm not necessarily hostile to him as a player.  But for reasons I cannot fully explain, my attitude towards his selection borders on ambivalence or indifference.  On a lot of levels, I should be excited we got him.  Considering the talent purge we had on that side of the ball, the need for a big, fast athletic nickel corner or safety was certainly there.  Just a few years back in 2017, I advocated a heavy early investment in the secondary when we already had Ramsey and Bouye and pushed for the team to take either Marshon Lattimore, Jamal Adams, or even Malik Hooker in the first round.  While it doesn't exactly fit the scenario I detailed above, it meets the spirit of that argument.  If the team hit on his selection, the secondary and defense as a whole should be much better, whether he plays nickel, safety, or one of the outside corners.  But as of this moment, I have been unable to muster much enthusiasm for this pick. I sincerely hope his level of play makes me look back at this post and laugh.

I hope that I'm wrong, but I hated the pick at the time.  I still think it was clearly the worst Jaguars pick in the first four rounds.  It didn't make sense to me because it seemed to be neither value or need or a good fit.  To top it off, there were also some great options available at that spot.  

Value:  I looked up 8 different pre-draft rankings of prospects and the best I could find was him ranked 39th.  We took him at 33.  The average ranking had him around 60th.  If Farley or Newsome were there and we took them, I would have at least seen it as a possible BAP pick.  Why take a non-need when it isn't a clear value pick?  Obviously, the Jaguars must have disagreed in terms of his value.  I hope they are right.

Need:  I went into the draft considering cornerback our smallest need (not counting special teams positions).  Sometimes when a team drafts at a position without an apparent need, it is because they have an aging player or a player that they want to cut for salary cap reasons.  I don't see that situation here.  C.J. Henderson was a rookie last year and has 4 years left on his rookie deal.  Shaquill Griffin is only 25.  He was signed just this off-season and gave him $29 million in guaranteed money.  It will be a couple of years before we could cut him and save money.  I even liked Sidney Jones as the third option.  Upon reflection, my guess is that Meyer doesn't  I assumed because Meyer re-signed Jones that he liked him.  However, if you look at the contract, it's a one year deal.  It's also only $400K in guaranteed money and otherwise is a veteran minimum deal.  I'm now thinking that they signed Jones for depth, but felt a big need for someone better as the #3 cornerback.  I'm also guessing that the Jaguars plan to blitz a lot this year and want to have 3 speedy cornerbacks in their secondary.

Fit:  I didn't consider cornerback a need, but I thought if they were to draft one, that someone suited for the nickel role would be the choice.  I see Campbell as a better fit on the outside.  I feel moving him to nickel is a little risky in terms of his effectiveness.  Obviously, Meyer disagrees.  I hope he's right.

Great Options Available:  It's one thing to go away from need when there's no other options available.  Sometimes  you have to make the best of a bad situation.  However, that wasn't the case here.  Both Teven Jenkins and Trevon Moehrig were available.  Both big needs and both were projected to go much earlier in the draft.  We were unsure if they would fall to our #25 spot and I was excited to see both there at #33.  I know some will say that we still got Little and Cisco.  Ok, if so, Barmore was also available who would have been another great mix of need and value.  Thinking about it, my guess is that Meyer didn't like Barmore.  Maybe Meyer is right and we dodged a bullet, but I personally would feel better about our defense right now with Barmore instead of Campbell.

Again, I hope I'm wrong and Campbell turns out to be a great pick, but I call it like I see it.

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2- I've got big hopes for Shenault but Julio is a beast and a vet WR. I wouldnt take that trade and you make some solid reasons why, especially with injuries. I know the Falcons are looking at cap down the road but his contract is only like $11m and it makes me wonder why they seem to determined to move him. Their O looks pretty damn good after adding Pitts. 
I do wonder how many WR's we will keep on the roster and I keep forgetting about Collin Johnson and we signed Dorsett. And you usually get that UDFA that's all heart that you fall in love with. Still miss you Hurns!

I think they keep six wide receivers, not counting ETN who I consider to be a running back.  Chark, Jones and Shenault are locks.  Considering that they gave him $4 million in guaranteed money, I think Agnew is also a near lock.  However, I think he will primarily be a returner.  He will be considered the fifth wide receiver on game day, but that means he will play very little at receiver barring injuries to others.  I then think Collin Johnson is likely to make the team and serve in the #4 role.  It basically leaves one spot available.  The player will likely be a game day inactive unless there are injuries.  This spot is up for grabs, but I consider Jalen Camp the favorite.  I don't think you draft players with the intention of cutting them.  However, Camp will get competition from Phillip Dorsett and the other no name receivers on the roster.

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3.  Admittedly this view is unfair to the team and to the player, but of all the draft picks in the first 3-4 rounds, perhaps the one I am the least enthusiastic about is second round pick Tyson Campbell.  It's not as though I was initially opposed to the pick like I was Chaisson last year.  I'm not necessarily hostile to him as a player.  But for reasons I cannot fully explain, my attitude towards his selection borders on ambivalence or indifference.  On a lot of levels, I should be excited we got him.  Considering the talent purge we had on that side of the ball, the need for a big, fast athletic nickel corner or safety was certainly there.  Just a few years back in 2017, I advocated a heavy early investment in the secondary when we already had Ramsey and Bouye and pushed for the team to take either Marshon Lattimore, Jamal Adams, or even Malik Hooker in the first round.  While it doesn't exactly fit the scenario I detailed above, it meets the spirit of that argument.  If the team hit on his selection, the secondary and defense as a whole should be much better, whether he plays nickel, safety, or one of the outside corners.  But as of this moment, I have been unable to muster much enthusiasm for this pick. I sincerely hope his level of play makes me look back at this post and laugh.

I hope that I'm wrong, but I hated the pick at the time.  I still think it was clearly the worst Jaguars pick in the first four rounds.  It didn't make sense to me because it seemed to be neither value or need or a good fit.  To top it off, there were also some great options available at that spot.  

Value:  I looked up 8 different pre-draft rankings of prospects and the best I could find was him ranked 39th.  We took him at 33.  The average ranking had him around 60th.  If Farley or Newsome were there and we took them, I would have at least seen it as a possible BAP pick.  Why take a non-need when it isn't a clear value pick?  Obviously, the Jaguars must have disagreed in terms of his value.  I hope they are right.

Need:  I went into the draft considering cornerback our smallest need (not counting special teams positions).  Sometimes when a team drafts at a position without an apparent need, it is because they have an aging player or a player that they want to cut for salary cap reasons.  I don't see that situation here.  C.J. Henderson was a rookie last year and has 4 years left on his rookie deal.  Shaquill Griffin is only 25.  He was signed just this off-season and gave him $29 million in guaranteed money.  It will be a couple of years before we could cut him and save money.  I even liked Sidney Jones as the third option.  Upon reflection, my guess is that Meyer doesn't  I assumed because Meyer re-signed Jones that he liked him.  However, if you look at the contract, it's a one year deal.  It's also only $400K in guaranteed money and otherwise is a veteran minimum deal.  I'm now thinking that they signed Jones for depth, but felt a big need for someone better as the #3 cornerback.  I'm also guessing that the Jaguars plan to blitz a lot this year and want to have 3 speedy cornerbacks in their secondary.

Fit:  I didn't consider cornerback a need, but I thought if they were to draft one, that someone suited for the nickel role would be the choice.  I see Campbell as a better fit on the outside.  I feel moving him to nickel is a little risky in terms of his effectiveness.  Obviously, Meyer disagrees.  I hope he's right.

Great Options Available:  It's one thing to go away from need when there's no other options available.  Sometimes  you have to make the best of a bad situation.  However, that wasn't the case here.  Both Teven Jenkins and Trevon Moehrig were available.  Both big needs and both were projected to go much earlier in the draft.  We were unsure if they would fall to our #25 spot and I was excited to see both there at #33.  I know some will say that we still got Little and Cisco.  Ok, if so, Barmore was also available who would have been another great mix of need and value.  Thinking about it, my guess is that Meyer didn't like Barmore.  Maybe Meyer is right and we dodged a bullet, but I personally would feel better about our defense right now with Barmore instead of Campbell.

Again, I hope I'm wrong and Campbell turns out to be a great pick, but I call it like I see it.

A few things to consider on Campbell : 

1. Henderson was not this regime’s pick and they may have doubts for him in general or for him in this scheme 

2. Griffin may be viewed as a placeholder #2 CB 

3. Think of Campbell as an outside CB with lots of upside who they believe will compete at nickel and may challenge for an outside spot in a year or two if he approaches his projected ceiling as a prospect

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For all three of Jenkins, Moehrig and Barmore it's not just us that didn't like them. They fell for a reason even if I can't see it myself. It's possible that reason is BS or confirmation bias or whatever and the team that did draft them got themselves a steal. This is basically what we did with Little. Let's hope we were the ones making the right decisions. 

That being said, the Campbell pick makes sense if Meyer/Baalke didn't like the corners. It also means they probably liked the corners less than the safeties. If they actually don't like Henderson or doubt him then it makes perfect sense.

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2- I've got big hopes for Shenault but Julio is a beast and a vet WR. I wouldnt take that trade and you make some solid reasons why, especially with injuries. I know the Falcons are looking at cap down the road but his contract is only like $11m and it makes me wonder why they seem to determined to move him. Their O looks pretty damn good after adding Pitts. 
I do wonder how many WR's we will keep on the roster and I keep forgetting about Collin Johnson and we signed Dorsett. And you usually get that UDFA that's all heart that you fall in love with. Still miss you Hurns!

I think they keep six wide receivers, not counting ETN who I consider to be a running back.  Chark, Jones and Shenault are locks.  Considering that they gave him $4 million in guaranteed money, I think Agnew is also a near lock.  However, I think he will primarily be a returner.  He will be considered the fifth wide receiver on game day, but that means he will play very little at receiver barring injuries to others.  I then think Collin Johnson is likely to make the team and serve in the #4 role.  It basically leaves one spot available.  The player will likely be a game day inactive unless there are injuries.  This spot is up for grabs, but I consider Jalen Camp the favorite.  I don't think you draft players with the intention of cutting them.  However, Camp will get competition from Phillip Dorsett and the other no name receivers on the roster.

Looking at the WR's on the roster at the moment we have

Chark, Shenault, Jones Jr, Collin Johnson, Dorsett, Agnew, Pharoah Cooper, Jalen Camp, Tim Jones, Jon'vea Johnson, Josh Hammond and Imatorbhebhe. 

Now obviously not keeping all of them, I'd say the first 4 are locks and between Dorsett, Cooper and Agnew for a 5th/6th spot. One or two will probably end up on the PS. Theres always one guy you've never heard of that has a great camp and the classic underdog story.

I do wonder with FA being before Meyer got to spend any time with the players, if someone like Dorsett was a guy hes worked with before but Meyer has been raving about the players we have here, it sounds a better group than he maybe thought he was inheriting.

I did see a press conference the other day where he was quite critical of Charks play last year and his condition. He said Chark added 7lb's of muscle this off season and wants him a strong, fast WR like Michael Thomas at the Saints 

The WR group looks pretty strong and could be a fun group to watch over training camp. Good to see strong competition.

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3.  Admittedly this view is unfair to the team and to the player, but of all the draft picks in the first 3-4 rounds, perhaps the one I am the least enthusiastic about is second round pick Tyson Campbell.  It's not as though I was initially opposed to the pick like I was Chaisson last year.  I'm not necessarily hostile to him as a player.  But for reasons I cannot fully explain, my attitude towards his selection borders on ambivalence or indifference.  On a lot of levels, I should be excited we got him.  Considering the talent purge we had on that side of the ball, the need for a big, fast athletic nickel corner or safety was certainly there.  Just a few years back in 2017, I advocated a heavy early investment in the secondary when we already had Ramsey and Bouye and pushed for the team to take either Marshon Lattimore, Jamal Adams, or even Malik Hooker in the first round.  While it doesn't exactly fit the scenario I detailed above, it meets the spirit of that argument.  If the team hit on his selection, the secondary and defense as a whole should be much better, whether he plays nickel, safety, or one of the outside corners.  But as of this moment, I have been unable to muster much enthusiasm for this pick. I sincerely hope his level of play makes me look back at this post and laugh.

I hope that I'm wrong, but I hated the pick at the time.  I still think it was clearly the worst Jaguars pick in the first four rounds.  It didn't make sense to me because it seemed to be neither value or need or a good fit.  To top it off, there were also some great options available at that spot.  

Value:  I looked up 8 different pre-draft rankings of prospects and the best I could find was him ranked 39th.  We took him at 33.  The average ranking had him around 60th.  If Farley or Newsome were there and we took them, I would have at least seen it as a possible BAP pick.  Why take a non-need when it isn't a clear value pick?  Obviously, the Jaguars must have disagreed in terms of his value.  I hope they are right.

Need:  I went into the draft considering cornerback our smallest need (not counting special teams positions).  Sometimes when a team drafts at a position without an apparent need, it is because they have an aging player or a player that they want to cut for salary cap reasons.  I don't see that situation here.  C.J. Henderson was a rookie last year and has 4 years left on his rookie deal.  Shaquill Griffin is only 25.  He was signed just this off-season and gave him $29 million in guaranteed money.  It will be a couple of years before we could cut him and save money.  I even liked Sidney Jones as the third option.  Upon reflection, my guess is that Meyer doesn't  I assumed because Meyer re-signed Jones that he liked him.  However, if you look at the contract, it's a one year deal.  It's also only $400K in guaranteed money and otherwise is a veteran minimum deal.  I'm now thinking that they signed Jones for depth, but felt a big need for someone better as the #3 cornerback.  I'm also guessing that the Jaguars plan to blitz a lot this year and want to have 3 speedy cornerbacks in their secondary.

Fit:  I didn't consider cornerback a need, but I thought if they were to draft one, that someone suited for the nickel role would be the choice.  I see Campbell as a better fit on the outside.  I feel moving him to nickel is a little risky in terms of his effectiveness.  Obviously, Meyer disagrees.  I hope he's right.

Great Options Available:  It's one thing to go away from need when there's no other options available.  Sometimes  you have to make the best of a bad situation.  However, that wasn't the case here.  Both Teven Jenkins and Trevon Moehrig were available.  Both big needs and both were projected to go much earlier in the draft.  We were unsure if they would fall to our #25 spot and I was excited to see both there at #33.  I know some will say that we still got Little and Cisco.  Ok, if so, Barmore was also available who would have been another great mix of need and value.  Thinking about it, my guess is that Meyer didn't like Barmore.  Maybe Meyer is right and we dodged a bullet, but I personally would feel better about our defense right now with Barmore instead of Campbell.

Again, I hope I'm wrong and Campbell turns out to be a great pick, but I call it like I see it.

I'll say this about the Campbell pick. My biggest concern was that we were passing up a ton of lineman (figuratively and literally). We landed Little, and Campbell's evaluation, at least among us keyboard GMs, is going to rely heavily on whether or not pick 45 works out.

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For all three of Jenkins, Moehrig and Barmore it's not just us that didn't like them. They fell for a reason even if I can't see it myself. It's possible that reason is BS or confirmation bias or whatever and the team that did draft them got themselves a steal. This is basically what we did with Little. Let's hope we were the ones making the right decisions. 

That being said, the Campbell pick makes sense if Meyer/Baalke didn't like the corners. It also means they probably liked the corners less than the safeties. If they actually don't like Henderson or doubt him then it makes perfect sense.

No, the Campbell pick makes sense because teams need more than 2 starting-quality corners.  They may love Henderson.  They may love Griffin.  But that's not enough in today's NFL.

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