As things stand now, what grades would you give to each position group on the Jaguars. The grades below indicate how each group will begin the season combined with the expected growth I expect to see by mid-season:

Q.B. -  A solid "B" here. Lawrence will have growing pains as does every rookie q.b. 

R.B. - "A"  Highest grade on the team with Robinson and Etienne. Both should have vey good years. My prediction is for a combined 1800 yards rushing and 75 receptions.

W.R. - "B+"  The only thing that keeps this from being an "A" is chances of injury to Chark and Shenault. These 2 should shine with Lawrence and Marvin Jones will provide veteran leadership in 
                   addition to solid production. Collin Johnson may also be a factor if he continues to show the development displayed at the end of the 20-21 season.

T.E. - "C+"  This is a tough position to grade. Will they add another receiving tight end? Hopefully the answer is "yes," however O'Shaughnessy is underrated. Blocking is an important part of
                 this position and Manhertz/Farrell should excel in this area. 

O.L. - "C+"  Some will consider this grade way too high ("stay calm, O. Line Matters), but I really expect improvement from both starting tackles this season. The interior linemen were solid last
                  season and I expect more of the same from them in 2021-22. The depth should be much improved with Bartch getting stronger and the acquisition of Walker Little. Richardson is
                  a valuable "swing" guy as is Shatley.

Overall grade for offense: Solid "B"

D.L. - "B"     Should be much better at stopping the run. Robertson-Harris and Brown should be great additions to this group. Good depth with Ward, Costin, Hamilton, Smoot and Tufele.

L.B. -  "B-"   Another tough group to grade. I'm very optimistic that this group's performance will be much better in 2022-23. It's going to take time, however, for this group to be comfortable with
                  the new scheme. Chaisson should be much better playing his more natural position. Williams is a nice addition for this group. Moses will likely need another year in rehab., but he was 
                  a great undrafted pick for the long-term. Josh Allen will make the pro-bowl along with Myles Jack.

D.B -  "C+"  Too many new faces to expect great things this season. No doubt that the talent is improved, but the 5 starters (including nickel) will need time to get used to each other's playing
                  styles. Definitely excited to see Cisco once he is totally healthy. I expect this grade to be a "B+" a season from now. Much will depend on Henderson's mind-set.

Overall grade for Defense: "C+". 

Special teams: "A"- Cooke and Lambo as good as any other pair of kickers in NFL. Ford and Agnew are great additions to this group.


Final team grade: "B-"   I'd expect this to result in a victory total of either 6 or 7. The schedule is not easy and the high number of new starters will need time to acclimate to their
                                  teammates and coaching staff. That being said, they should be competitive in just about every game and our fans will be very optimistic going forwards.

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I think I’d rate the TE group a C minus or D.
I don’t disagree with the rest of the offensive grades you have here.
I do have real concern about pass pro from these tackles though and I may call the OL a straight C for that reason.

I’d give all three groups on defense straight C’s because there is soooo much unknown from each unit.

I like the Brown signing, the Tufele draft pick, and I like Hamilton’s chances in year two to make impact, but I’ll believe they can stop the run when I actually see it.
The DB room has more talent than they did but it’s 4 new starters and that’s hard to predict.
LBs also need to prove they can help stop the run more effectively for me to buy in.

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PFF is actually running through a 'ranking every teams X position group' series right now and I've been waiting for them to finish up to post it here.

Needless to say, you're wildly optimistic basically across the board.

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PFF is actually running through a 'ranking every teams X position group' series right now and I've been waiting for them to finish up to post it here.

Needless to say, you're wildly optimistic basically across the board.

Fans of a team in rebuild mode are more optimistic than PFF writers who are grading a first time NFL coach’s newly rebuilt position groups???

I 

Am 

Shocked!!!!

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Are these grades on how good the team is right now or how good they will be for the 2021 season? I want to see grades on how they think they will be for the 21 season not how good the team is in June

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Are these grades on how good the team is right now or how good they will be for the 2021 season?  I want to see grades on how they think they will be for the 21 season not how good the team is in June

My grades were based on how I believe they will do during the 2021-22 season. Admittedly, my overall grade of B- may be a little high since I only expect them to win 6 or 7 games. However, they should be one of the league's most improved teams by the end of the season.

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Are these grades on how good the team is right now or how good they will be for the 2021 season?  I want to see grades on how they think they will be for the 21 season not how good the team is in June

The PFF articles are grading the position groups in their current state. 
Unknown entities are clearly going to be curved lower in rating. 


Plus, you know, it’s PFF.  So… some of their systems for grading are whack from the get-go.

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The way I grade the defense is if it's good enough to stop Tennessee's offense twice a year, which it is not. No one is taking their division title as long as Henry, brown, and Jones are on that field and stay healthy.

I remain optimistic though, maybe the jags will prove me wrong which I hope they do.

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"D.B - "C+" Too many new faces to expect great things this season. No doubt that the talent is improved, but the 5 starters (including nickel) will need time to get used to each other's playing
styles. Definitely excited to see Cisco once he is totally healthy. I expect this grade to be a "B+" a season from now. Much will depend on Henderson's mind-set."


How many new DBs did we have in 2017? Bouyee, Church, etc? was the best DB group in the NFL that year. lol.

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"D.B -  "C+"  Too many new faces to expect great things this season. No doubt that the talent is improved, but the 5 starters (including nickel) will need time to get used to each other's playing
                 styles. Definitely excited to see Cisco once he is totally healthy. I expect this grade to be a "B+" a season from now. Much will depend on Henderson's mind-set."


How many new DBs did we have in 2017? Bouyee, Church, etc? was the best DB group in the NFL that year. lol.

1. Comparing Ramsey/Bouye (in his prime) to Henderson/Griffin is a fools errand from the jump

2. Assuming we are n lots of nickel - we are looking at 4 new starters in the secondary, not 2 like in 2017

That team replaced Amukamara and Cyprien.

We are currently replacing Herndon, Wilson, Josh Jones, and DJ Hayden. 

I don’t see very much similarity here.

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"D.B -  "C+"  Too many new faces to expect great things this season. No doubt that the talent is improved, but the 5 starters (including nickel) will need time to get used to each other's playing
                 styles. Definitely excited to see Cisco once he is totally healthy. I expect this grade to be a "B+" a season from now. Much will depend on Henderson's mind-set."


How many new DBs did we have in 2017? Bouyee, Church, etc? was the best DB group in the NFL that year. lol.

Given how young they are and feeling out I think it will be closer to very hit/miss inconsistent B-. They will probably flash and make a bunch plays we are not used to seeing but also make some mistakes that frustrate the heck out of the fanbase.

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As things stand now, what grades would you give to each position group on the Jaguars. The grades below indicate how each group will begin the season combined with the expected growth I expect to see by mid-season:

Q.B. -  A solid "B" here. Lawrence will have growing pains as does every rookie q.b. 

R.B. - "A"  Highest grade on the team with Robinson and Etienne. Both should have vey good years. My prediction is for a combined 1800 yards rushing and 75 receptions.

W.R. - "B+"  The only thing that keeps this from being an "A" is chances of injury to Chark and Shenault. These 2 should shine with Lawrence and Marvin Jones will provide veteran leadership in 
                   addition to solid production. Collin Johnson may also be a factor if he continues to show the development displayed at the end of the 20-21 season.

T.E. - "C+"  This is a tough position to grade. Will they add another receiving tight end? Hopefully the answer is "yes," however O'Shaughnessy is underrated. Blocking is an important part of
                 this position and Manhertz/Farrell should excel in this area. 

O.L. - "C+"  Some will consider this grade way too high ("stay calm, O. Line Matters), but I really expect improvement from both starting tackles this season. The interior linemen were solid last
                  season and I expect more of the same from them in 2021-22. The depth should be much improved with Bartch getting stronger and the acquisition of Walker Little. Richardson is
                  a valuable "swing" guy as is Shatley.

Overall grade for offense: Solid "B"

D.L. - "B"     Should be much better at stopping the run. Robertson-Harris and Brown should be great additions to this group. Good depth with Ward, Costin, Hamilton, Smoot and Tufele.

L.B. -  "B-"   Another tough group to grade. I'm very optimistic that this group's performance will be much better in 2022-23. It's going to take time, however, for this group to be comfortable with
                  the new scheme. Chaisson should be much better playing his more natural position. Williams is a nice addition for this group. Moses will likely need another year in rehab., but he was 
                  a great undrafted pick for the long-term. Josh Allen will make the pro-bowl along with Myles Jack.

D.B -  "C+"  Too many new faces to expect great things this season. No doubt that the talent is improved, but the 5 starters (including nickel) will need time to get used to each other's playing
                  styles. Definitely excited to see Cisco once he is totally healthy. I expect this grade to be a "B+" a season from now. Much will depend on Henderson's mind-set.

Overall grade for Defense: "C+". 

Special teams: "A"- Cooke and Lambo as good as any other pair of kickers in NFL. Ford and Agnew are great additions to this group.


Final team grade: "B-"   I'd expect this to result in a victory total of either 6 or 7. The schedule is not easy and the high number of new starters will need time to acclimate to their
                                  teammates and coaching staff. That being said, they should be competitive in just about every game and our fans will be very optimistic going forwards.

At DB, I think we are bigger, faster and more athletic than we were at this point a year ago.  They still have to prove it on the field, but top to bottom, I would take this secondary two years removed from losing Ramsey over last year's group, even with my response to Campbell.  I would give them a B- for that, but again, they still have to prove their mettle.

Not sure if I would consider Chark any more of an injury risk than anyone else.  I think all of the WRs will be more productive than they were last year, with more big plays out of the group.  I agree with NYCJags about TE being marked too high by you, though I am hoping that maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised by one or more of the guys there.

OL?  Not only am I hoping the unit stays healthy, but I am hoping Walker Little exceeds all of our expectations.  If those two things happen, the grade for OL goes up.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

LOL.  Grading position groups when training camp hasn't even started.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

As things stand now, what grades would you give to each position group on the Jaguars. The grades below indicate how each group will begin the season combined with the expected growth I expect to see by mid-season:

Q.B. -  A solid "B" here. Lawrence will have growing pains as does every rookie q.b. 

R.B. - "A"  Highest grade on the team with Robinson and Etienne. Both should have vey good years. My prediction is for a combined 1800 yards rushing and 75 receptions.

W.R. - "B+"  The only thing that keeps this from being an "A" is chances of injury to Chark and Shenault. These 2 should shine with Lawrence and Marvin Jones will provide veteran leadership in 
                   addition to solid production. Collin Johnson may also be a factor if he continues to show the development displayed at the end of the 20-21 season.

T.E. - "C+"  This is a tough position to grade. Will they add another receiving tight end? Hopefully the answer is "yes," however O'Shaughnessy is underrated. Blocking is an important part of
                 this position and Manhertz/Farrell should excel in this area. 

O.L. - "C+"  Some will consider this grade way too high ("stay calm, O. Line Matters), but I really expect improvement from both starting tackles this season. The interior linemen were solid last
                  season and I expect more of the same from them in 2021-22. The depth should be much improved with Bartch getting stronger and the acquisition of Walker Little. Richardson is
                  a valuable "swing" guy as is Shatley.

Overall grade for offense: Solid "B"

D.L. - "B"     Should be much better at stopping the run. Robertson-Harris and Brown should be great additions to this group. Good depth with Ward, Costin, Hamilton, Smoot and Tufele.

L.B. -  "B-"   Another tough group to grade. I'm very optimistic that this group's performance will be much better in 2022-23. It's going to take time, however, for this group to be comfortable with
                  the new scheme. Chaisson should be much better playing his more natural position. Williams is a nice addition for this group. Moses will likely need another year in rehab., but he was 
                  a great undrafted pick for the long-term. Josh Allen will make the pro-bowl along with Myles Jack.

D.B -  "C+"  Too many new faces to expect great things this season. No doubt that the talent is improved, but the 5 starters (including nickel) will need time to get used to each other's playing
                  styles. Definitely excited to see Cisco once he is totally healthy. I expect this grade to be a "B+" a season from now. Much will depend on Henderson's mind-set.

Overall grade for Defense: "C+". 

Special teams: "A"- Cooke and Lambo as good as any other pair of kickers in NFL. Ford and Agnew are great additions to this group.


Final team grade: "B-"   I'd expect this to result in a victory total of either 6 or 7. The schedule is not easy and the high number of new starters will need time to acclimate to their
                                  teammates and coaching staff. That being said, they should be competitive in just about every game and our fans will be very optimistic going forwards.

Right now

QB B-
RB B+
TE D
OL C
WR B+

DL C+
LB C
CB C+ 
SS and FS C

DL, CBs and LBs  could end up being B though.

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"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

Way too early for this.

NH3...

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"AZANE"

LOL.  Grading position groups when training camp hasn't even started.

Way too early for this.

NH3...

Perhaps we shouldn't discuss football at all this time of year?

Not sure what speculating about our strengths and weaknesses are harms at this point.

I don't know of a single poster on this board who wasn't excited about the team drafting Trevor Lawrence back in late April. Isn't that excitement based on wholly premature speculation and hopes of what Trevor Lawrence could be for us? He hasn't been through training camp, either. At least most of the other guys we're discussing have played in the league.

Everyone knows or should know (actual or constructive knowledge) these opinions are not cast in stone and are subject to change based on actual performance/perception of performance.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

LOL.  Grading position groups when training camp hasn't even started.

Way too early for this.

NH3...

Perhaps we shouldn't discuss football at all this time of year?

Not sure what speculating about our strengths and weaknesses are harms at this point.

I don't know of a single poster on this board who wasn't excited about the team drafting Trevor Lawrence back in late April.  Isn't that excitement based on wholly premature speculation and hopes of what Trevor Lawrence could be for us?  He hasn't been through training camp, either.  At least most of the other guys we're discussing have played in the league.

Everyone knows or should know (actual or constructive knowledge) these opinions are not cast in stone and are subject to change based on actual performance/perception of performance.

I'm not sure how to word this.

Speculating is one thing.  To assign some kind of grade when we haven't actually seen anything is another.  If this was Gardner Minshew's rookie season how would the QB position be graded?  I could be mistaken, but my thought that year was WHO is our backup QB?  When Foles went down I thought that we were doomed.  It turns out that at this point that year our QB grade should have been around a B- or so (in hindsight).  Many would have graded it much lower (in my opinion).

I personally don't make any kind of speculation until I see something.  Training camp and preseason would and should give a better idea to assign some kind of grade.

I equate it to this.  My boss wanted to hire a person because his resume "looked good on paper".  I selected and lobbied for another person that had a "less than stellar" resume, but after interviewing both I chose the second one.  What "looks good on paper" or in stats doesn't always translate into actual.

Let's see how the players look together before we assign some arbitrary "grade".

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Perhaps we shouldn't discuss football at all this time of year?

Not sure what speculating about our strengths and weaknesses are harms at this point.

I don't know of a single poster on this board who wasn't excited about the team drafting Trevor Lawrence back in late April.  Isn't that excitement based on wholly premature speculation and hopes of what Trevor Lawrence could be for us?  He hasn't been through training camp, either.  At least most of the other guys we're discussing have played in the league.

Everyone knows or should know (actual or constructive knowledge) these opinions are not cast in stone and are subject to change based on actual performance/perception of performance.

I'm not sure how to word this.

Speculating is one thing.  To assign some kind of grade when we haven't actually seen anything is another.  If this was Gardner Minshew's rookie season how would the QB position be graded?  I could be mistaken, but my thought that year was WHO is our backup QB?  When Foles went down I thought that we were doomed.  It turns out that at this point that year our QB grade should have been around a B- or so (in hindsight).  Many would have graded it much lower (in my opinion).

I personally don't make any kind of speculation until I see something.  Training camp and preseason would and should give a better idea to assign some kind of grade.

I equate it to this.  My boss wanted to hire a person because his resume "looked good on paper".  I selected and lobbied for another person that had a "less than stellar" resume, but after interviewing both I chose the second one.  What "looks good on paper" or in stats doesn't always translate into actual.

Let's see how the players look together before we assign some arbitrary "grade".

Or...  People can assign grades if they want because there's nothing better to do right now, then the topic can be revisited after the pads go on.

Personally, Jagi, I'm with you.  I don't have any interest in assigning grades, or making predictions for that matter, so I don't even typically critique other folk's takes.  If nobody else was interested in any of that though, this board would be deader than the dead zone.

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I equate it to this.  My boss wanted to hire a person because his resume "looked good on paper".  I selected and lobbied for another person that had a "less than stellar" resume, but after interviewing both I chose the second one.  What "looks good on paper" or in stats doesn't always translate into actual.

Which is fine. But by your analogy, you're saying that people can't rank the candidates for a job based on their CVs (even on the understanding that the rankings will probably change after interviews). Which seems kind of ridiculous.

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