Could you imagine Ramsey with Lawrence? Even tho I loved Ramsey I noticed he got scorched against the Chiefs. I knew he was replaceable after that game. He’s still one of the best CBs and it sucks Caldwell ran him outta town.

Caldwell should have stayed out of it since it was already squashed.

I don't think there's ever a chance he'd have stayed here. No way we ever win a bidding war for his services.

We just accelerated the departure and garnered much more than a comp pick in the exchange.

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This is one situation where no one was in the right.  What Ramsey did could not be tolerated.  Just to say, "Me and the coach are good" means what Ramsey did in the sideline was okay, just part of the game.  That would severely undermine the head coach.   On the other hand, it was handled very very poorly by the Jags' brass.   What Ramsey did was horrible, but what Caldwell then did was completely stupid.  What was called for was de-escalation, a heart to heart talk with Ramsey, with just one person, not four, and then a public apology by Ramsey or a fine.   The one thing one should not do if they care about retaining the player is to escalate the anger of the moment.

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What surprised me the most was discovering Caldwell was the instigator. He didn’t seem to me to be incendiary, that was Tom’s department. Maybe he was trying to impress Coughlin. Who knows. Ramsey’s drama was a little much, though.

In the end it facilitated better things, such as regime change and a new brighter outlook. They’re all gone now. Better times are ahead.

That's a good view of it.

Until someone else in the room corroborates the story, I'm taking everything with a grain of salt.

I've seen far too many athletes who need a grudge to motivate them overinflate something the other side said or did in order to self-induce their bitterness. Not saying that Ramsey is spreading manure here, but also not going to take his side of the story as gospel.

As others have said, it worked out. it's a past chapter in the story of everyone involved, it seems odd to be revisiting these ghosts. Dead Zone gonna Dead Zone, I guess.

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Ramsey had more to say about how the Jags and Him got to the trade point.  Add another notch to that Loser Dave Caldwell's belt.  Khan is also to blame for letting this bum run the team for all those years.

Some interesting parts:

Tony khan conned Ramsey into a meeting thinking it would just be he and Tony:  Caldwell, Tony, Shad, and Coughlin were there.  Some things Ramsey had to say:

-Of course, as confirmed in 2019, one of those people was front-office leader Tom Coughlin. The other, according to Ramsey, was former general manager Dave Caldwell, who didn’t initially speak as Shad Khan started the conversation.

-“I want to say Shad started to speak first and was very respectful. You know ‘Jalen we got a lot of respect for your game’ this, that whoop-de-woo… ‘Are you and Doug going to be good? We don’t want anything going on between a key player and our head coach.’ I’m like ‘We good. It is what it is and that’s just part of the game.'”

-“Tony said something, too, and was real respectful, again,” Ramsey said. “Basically repeated what his dad said and kind of kept it moving like ‘Man we really think y’all should talk before anybody talks to the media. Y’all two should talk just to make sure y’all good and maybe you need to apologize to him.’

-“So then, Dave Caldwell, who was the GM…he took the total opposite — I guess they were in there playing good cop, bad cop. He took the total opposite approach. He started cussing and started trying to cuss me out, like ‘You need to go [expletive] apologize.’ […] I said ‘No, that ain’t happening.’ 

“And then he said something else, but I forgot what he said. You know how when you’re in shock sometimes, you give like that little laugh, like ‘He’s crazy.’ So, I gave him a little grin and he’s like ‘Oh, is this funny to you?’ And I just started shaking my head, and then he was like, ‘Well, just get the [expletive] out!’ And he opened the door, and I just walked out like laughing a little bit, and he slammed the door behind me.”



https://jaguarswire.usatoday.com/2021/07...ore-trade/

"conned" is a strong word. Based on the article, there is nothing outside of Ramsey's assumption that "them" was only TK and Shad. Again, we only have Ramsey's side of this story to work from, and you know he's not going to paint the picture where he fouls up and assumes something. If TK said "meet with the two of us" and then TC and Dave happen to be waiting in the room as well, then sure, TK is a conman. Had he said "meet with us", and Ramsey was the one thinking it's just TK and Shad, well, it's on Ramsey for not making sure either his expectations of ownership only were clear, or confirming  in advance who was involved, or what was going to be discussed.

What if the part he forgot was "we want you to be a leader in the locker room, and a hollow apology ends this stupid story. Be the bigger person." Not saying it was. Until someone else vilifies Dave for what went on behind closed doors, I choose to reserve judgment, though.

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It sounds to me like there were a few issues that ended up being a "perfect storm" kind of thing.

First is the issue with Tom Coughlin and his strict rules regarding discipline.  There are pros/cons when it comes to that and naturally players aren't going to like it.  Coming from a military background, when "strict discipline" is properly taught it makes for better players and better people (in my opinion).  That leads to the next issue.

Just how the strict rules regarding discipline are enforced.  It sure sounds like (if true) Dave Caldwell crossed a line somewhere.  Enforcing strict rules can be done in a "non-combative" manner.  Most of the time the "yelling, screaming and cussing" is going to turn the recipient off.

Finally, it sure sounds like football players aren't open to learning new life lessons (discipline).  To them and many young people it's all about being "respected/disrespected".  "Respect" is earned and it doesn't come by being a good football player.


Just my opinion, but I think everyone involved could use some lessons about leadership.

There was a time many years ago when certain parallels between military-style discipline and leadership of a football team could be drawn. 

That time is long gone now. Modern rules, modern players, modern coaches have all moved on from that model. Now it's about motivating players to work hard to prepare, but they don't do it the same way. They can't. 

There was no discipline being taught from any level, in any style, from that last Jaguars regime. 

Coughlin was seen as out of touch, antiquated, and was generally ignored. 
Marrone was seen as a crass, potty-mouthed, bologna-eating slob who garnered no respect.
And now we have one instance of Caldwell losing his cool with a diva who constantly lost his cool with everyone around him. (the kid had it coming IMO) 

It was a complete [BLEEP] show.  It's incredible that they strung together that 2017 run at all.

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It sounds to me like there were a few issues that ended up being a "perfect storm" kind of thing.

First is the issue with Tom Coughlin and his strict rules regarding discipline.  There are pros/cons when it comes to that and naturally players aren't going to like it.  Coming from a military background, when "strict discipline" is properly taught it makes for better players and better people (in my opinion).  That leads to the next issue.

Just how the strict rules regarding discipline are enforced.  It sure sounds like (if true) Dave Caldwell crossed a line somewhere.  Enforcing strict rules can be done in a "non-combative" manner.  Most of the time the "yelling, screaming and cussing" is going to turn the recipient off.

Finally, it sure sounds like football players aren't open to learning new life lessons (discipline).  To them and many young people it's all about being "respected/disrespected".  "Respect" is earned and it doesn't come by being a good football player.


Just my opinion, but I think everyone involved could use some lessons about leadership.

There was a time many years ago when certain parallels between military-style discipline and leadership of a football team could be drawn. 

That time is long gone now. Modern rules, modern players, modern coaches have all moved on from that model. Now it's about motivating players to work hard to prepare, but they don't do it the same way. They can't. 

There was no discipline being taught from any level, in any style, from that last Jaguars regime. 

Coughlin was seen as out of touch, antiquated, and was generally ignored. 
Marrone was seen as a crass, potty-mouthed, bologna-eating slob who garnered no respect.
And now we have one instance of Caldwell losing his cool with a diva who constantly lost his cool with everyone around him. (the kid had it coming IMO) 

It was a complete [BLEEP] show.  It's incredible that they strung together that 2017 run at all.

This. There was no unified message or style in the staff. Yes, even if they are grown men playing professional sports for obscene amounts of money, a modicum of basic Human Resource management is needed for the benefit of everyone.

I’ve wondered before if some teams couldn’t benefit from a FO Quality Control person. Someone who could sit them in a conference room with ownership and hash out leadership and organizational issues. These guys are good at football, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re good at leadership. There used to be a time when a coach molded a team into the image he wanted. Those days are gone.

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It sounds to me like there were a few issues that ended up being a "perfect storm" kind of thing.

First is the issue with Tom Coughlin and his strict rules regarding discipline.  There are pros/cons when it comes to that and naturally players aren't going to like it.  Coming from a military background, when "strict discipline" is properly taught it makes for better players and better people (in my opinion).  That leads to the next issue.

Just how the strict rules regarding discipline are enforced.  It sure sounds like (if true) Dave Caldwell crossed a line somewhere.  Enforcing strict rules can be done in a "non-combative" manner.  Most of the time the "yelling, screaming and cussing" is going to turn the recipient off.

Finally, it sure sounds like football players aren't open to learning new life lessons (discipline).  To them and many young people it's all about being "respected/disrespected".  "Respect" is earned and it doesn't come by being a good football player.


Just my opinion, but I think everyone involved could use some lessons about leadership.

True in regards to everyone needing to grow up an learn leadership. Ironically, the yelling and screaming at basic is what turned me off from the military; as well as, watching drill sergeants act like kids alot with me coming from a structured church household being a PK. I gave respect but wasn't given it in return and ultimately left. Love the military but only the kids putting their life on the line thrown into the fire partially blindfolded.

Back on topic....TLaw is the here and now. I hope he lights ramsey's ahh up with chark, Vista, and jones.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

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Season Tix, Section 409

2023 and still counting.....SB will finally be ours soon enough.
TLaw aka 'the prince that was promised' supporter.

show.  It's incredible that they strung together that 2017 run at all. pid='1388354' dateline='1626633523']

Behold the power of the Boat.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Glad to see Ramsey continue his annual summer clown show bridge burning.
always entertaining

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What surprised me the most was discovering Caldwell was the instigator. He didn’t seem to me to be incendiary.

How quickly we forget Dave's very first press conference. Even if he is released. He definitely had a little bit of instigation and incendiary in him.

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What surprised me the most was discovering Caldwell was the instigator. He didn’t seem to me to be incendiary.

How quickly we forget Dave's very first press conference. Even if he is released. He definitely had a little bit of instigation and incendiary in him.

If you’re a Tebow homer, maybe.

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How quickly we forget Dave's very first press conference. Even if he is released. He definitely had a little bit of instigation and incendiary in him.

If you’re a Tebow homer, maybe.

Yea... that was what solidified him as a good hire at the beginning to a lot of Jags fans.

Basically told us that he didn't care about the gata homers.

Yea, he turned out to be meh as a GM - but that was still a defining moment.

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Glad to see Ramsey continue his annual summer clown show bridge burning.
always entertaining

Since Cam Akers is now injured maybe he can leverage that ego of his and play running back too?

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A new broom always sweeps clean.