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Is Derrick Henry the best RB ever?

#21

No. He's very, very good and has some elite traits, but the great ones had a broader skill set in the "elite" column. 

He's on a ridiculous pace right now that may break a 2 season record, but I definitely do not see longevity being part of his career arc.
Injury is likely to slow his pace at some point before he can realize the numbers. 

I wish he played for another team so I could root for a local 904 product, but even then, I'd predict his chances of still being relevant in 6 years are slim. If he's going to prove to be among the elite he's going to have to get a lot done in the next 4 years IMO.

He may prove me wrong and stay healthy for years despite his style of play, but I'm skeptical. The modern NFL isn't a welcoming place for a RB looking to record HOF numbers these days.  They get used up and cast aside.
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#22

(10-19-2021, 05:44 PM)jaglou53 Wrote:
(10-19-2021, 11:29 AM)DTWD4∞ Wrote: A few have mentioned Jim Brown as being the best of all time. They are correct. I watched him play . The man was incredible. And he never showed he was hurt.  He even talked about it after his career. He always got back up off the ground with the same speed/ motion, never letting on if he got nicked. Do not forget that he retired after 9 seasons with a lot left in the tank. A lot of other runners have been Hall of Fame great but none better than Brown.  While Henry is great in his own right, he was mismanaged his first couple seasons and was on the verge of being let go by the Tacks. Then they played us, Henry made us look like a Pop Warner team and the rest is history. Talk about total TDs and yards if you want, i don't think Henry willl hold up long enough for those records. Having said that, I think he will end up #2 all time at RB. The pain at him passing Emmit is ameliorated by the fact that he is one of ours being from Yulee.

I watched Brown, also, and he was truly " a man against boys." He weighed 230 pounds, which made him bigger than most linebackers of his time. What makes Henry so amazing is that defensive players today are so much bigger and stronger than in the 60's yet he is almost as dominant as Brown was. If Henry keeps this up for a few more seasons, he'd have to be in the discussion of best ever running back. This is a guy who has always been underestimated; many college coaches told him he was too slow to play running back and wanted to change his position. He was also passed over in the 1st round of the draft.

Guys are bigger and stronger now, but there was a much greater emphasis on tackling back then. Guys today don't tackle, and big, fast backs like Henry take advantage of that. 

Emmitt, as some people are mentioning, had his numbers inflated by one of the best offensive lines of all time. That cowboys o-line was no joke. Not saying he was trash.... just saying he isn't one of the greats.
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#23

(10-19-2021, 05:44 PM)jaglou53 Wrote:
(10-19-2021, 11:29 AM)DTWD4∞ Wrote: A few have mentioned Jim Brown as being the best of all time. They are correct. I watched him play . The man was incredible. And he never showed he was hurt.  He even talked about it after his career. He always got back up off the ground with the same speed/ motion, never letting on if he got nicked. Do not forget that he retired after 9 seasons with a lot left in the tank. A lot of other runners have been Hall of Fame great but none better than Brown.  While Henry is great in his own right, he was mismanaged his first couple seasons and was on the verge of being let go by the Tacks. Then they played us, Henry made us look like a Pop Warner team and the rest is history. Talk about total TDs and yards if you want, i don't think Henry willl hold up long enough for those records. Having said that, I think he will end up #2 all time at RB. The pain at him passing Emmit is ameliorated by the fact that he is one of ours being from Yulee.

I watched Brown, also, and he was truly " a man against boys." He weighed 230 pounds, which made him bigger than most linebackers of his time. What makes Henry so amazing is that defensive players today are so much bigger and stronger than in the 60's yet he is almost as dominant as Brown was. If Henry keeps this up for a few more seasons, he'd have to be in the discussion of best ever running back. This is a guy who has always been underestimated; many college coaches told him he was too slow to play running back and wanted to change his position. He was also passed over in the 1st round of the draft.


Brown was a great running back for his time, yet you can’t really compare his production & accomplishments with Henry’s because the times and conditions were so different.  Brown made a living running over comparatively slower, lighter, weaker, and more primitive defenses by today’s standards.  Credit is due to him for playing in the lawless era, however, where player safety rules were mostly non-existent.

If Brown, in his prime, had to play against today’s defenses, you think he would be putting up numbers similar to what he put up in his heyday?  If he, in his prime, replaced Henry today as the RB1 for the Tacks, you think he’d be doing as well as Henry is right now?

My guess is “no.”
"We believe in victory!"   - Gus Bradley
"I don't want to believe.  I want to know."   - Carl Sagan
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#24

(10-21-2021, 11:06 AM)KodiakJag Wrote:
(10-19-2021, 05:44 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: I watched Brown, also, and he was truly " a man against boys." He weighed 230 pounds, which made him bigger than most linebackers of his time. What makes Henry so amazing is that defensive players today are so much bigger and stronger than in the 60's yet he is almost as dominant as Brown was. If Henry keeps this up for a few more seasons, he'd have to be in the discussion of best ever running back. This is a guy who has always been underestimated; many college coaches told him he was too slow to play running back and wanted to change his position. He was also passed over in the 1st round of the draft.


Brown was a great running back for his time, yet you can’t really compare his production & accomplishments with Henry’s because the times and conditions were so different.  Brown made a living running over comparatively slower, lighter, weaker, and more primitive defenses by today’s standards.  Credit is due to him for playing in the lawless era, however, where player safety rules were mostly non-existent.

If Brown, in his prime, had to play against today’s defenses, you think he would be putting up numbers similar to what he put up in his heyday?  If he, in his prime, replaced Henry today as the RB1 for the Tacks, you think he’d be doing as well as Henry is right now?

My guess is “no.”

My guess is yes.
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#25

Barry Sanders is the best. Imo
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#26

(10-21-2021, 11:12 AM)RicoTx Wrote:
(10-21-2021, 11:06 AM)KodiakJag Wrote: Brown was a great running back for his time, yet you can’t really compare his production & accomplishments with Henry’s because the times and conditions were so different.  Brown made a living running over comparatively slower, lighter, weaker, and more primitive defenses by today’s standards.  Credit is due to him for playing in the lawless era, however, where player safety rules were mostly non-existent.

If Brown, in his prime, had to play against today’s defenses, you think he would be putting up numbers similar to what he put up in his heyday?  If he, in his prime, replaced Henry today as the RB1 for the Tacks, you think he’d be doing as well as Henry is right now?

My guess is “no.”

My guess is yes.

It's like Vic used to say, Brown, when he played, was 230+ lbs and was the fastest guy on the field.

With today's training and nutrition techniques he'd be 20-30 lbs heavier and still be the fastest guy on the field. Against a league that doesn't practice tackling anymore, and that plays a lot of nickle and dime. He'd be at least as good as he was if he were playing today as he was back then.
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#27

(10-22-2021, 05:58 AM)SeldomRite Wrote:
(10-21-2021, 11:12 AM)RicoTx Wrote: My guess is yes.

It's like Vic used to say, Brown, when he played, was 230+ lbs and was the fastest guy on the field.

With today's training and nutrition techniques he'd be 20-30 lbs heavier and still be the fastest guy on the field. Against a league that doesn't practice tackling anymore, and that plays a lot of nickle and dime. He'd be at least as good as he was if he were playing today as he was back then.

Did you see the highlight they aired during last night's game? Cripes. Horse-collared at the 4 or 5, three other defenders closing in, sheds the tackle, evades or runs through the others and scores standing up.

Remember also that in the old days, that single-bar helmet let defenses do a lot of nasty things in a pile. I can remember a clip where Brown recalled one pile, guys were trying to gouge his eyes. A stray finger in the helmet, searching for paydirt, ended up between his teeth, and he didn't play nice. Lot less poking at his eyes after that. Smile
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#28

Henry sucks !! Back when he got drafted, someone posted a clip of Henry struggling through some of the drills during his initial practices with the Titans. We all laughed at him and said the Titans didn't know what they were doing so we need to stick to our story that the Titans selection of Henry at pick #45 was idiotic.
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#29

He gets great results by the end of the game but he isn't a great runner that can hit the home run at anytime. He will end up in the HOF but I wouldn't pick him for 1 run or even 1 game against all the other greats.

You aren't focusing on him fearing he will beak off a long run every time he touches the ball (unless you are the Jags) like you would be with all the other top RBs.

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#30

I personally don’t feel Henry is otherworldly. He’s a volume guy that benefits from playing us twice a year. He’s a very good back, but I wouldn’t even put him in the conversation amongst all time greats.

Hell people love talking about his 2000 yard seasons but OJ did it in 12 games... not 16. Where’s the love for that guy?
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#31

(10-23-2021, 03:07 PM)NoShoes Wrote: I personally don’t feel Henry is otherworldly. He’s a volume guy that benefits from playing us twice a year. He’s a very good back, but I wouldn’t even put him in the conversation amongst all time greats.

Hell people love talking about his 2000 yard seasons but OJ did it in 12 games...  not 16. Where’s the love for that guy?

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#32

(10-23-2021, 03:07 PM)NoShoes Wrote: I personally don’t feel Henry is otherworldly. He’s a volume guy that benefits from playing us twice a year. He’s a very good back, but I wouldn’t even put him in the conversation amongst all time greats.

Hell people love talking about his 2000 yard seasons but OJ did it in 12 games...  not 16. Where’s the love for that guy?

14
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#33

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2021/10/2...ion-motley
You know you're dealing with a belief system when you get an emotional response. 
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#34

(10-23-2021, 03:07 PM)NoShoes Wrote: I personally don’t feel Henry is otherworldly. He’s a volume guy that benefits from playing us twice a year. He’s a very good back, but I wouldn’t even put him in the conversation amongst all time greats.

Hell people love talking about his 2000 yard seasons but OJ did it in 12 games...  not 16. Where’s the love for that guy?

Hmmm...
I dunno I think he did something that makes people kinda not wanna bring him up and give him any due for whatever accolades he may have had
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#35

Henry out for the season. Now we all get to see if Tannehill is any good.
You know you're dealing with a belief system when you get an emotional response. 
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#36
(This post was last modified: 11-01-2021, 11:16 AM by HURRICANE!!!. Edited 1 time in total.)

(11-01-2021, 09:27 AM)CTEisREAL Wrote: Henry out for the season.  Now we all get to see if Tannehill is any good.

Henry is  S O F T 

This is where the Titans realize that Tannehill is the next Tom Brady.  Henry (and the Titans coaching staff) was holding Tannehill back.
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#37

Henry's career is in jeopardy.
“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

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#38

(11-01-2021, 11:29 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: Henry's career is in jeopardy.

Dude is done.  We should offer them Carlos Hyde.  He'd probably turn into a Hall of Famer under their coaching staff and offensive line.
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#39
(This post was last modified: 11-01-2021, 11:49 AM by SeldomRite. Edited 1 time in total.)

(10-19-2021, 10:16 AM)SeldomRite Wrote:
(10-19-2021, 09:36 AM)CTEisREAL Wrote:  6 or 7 years?  What he has done in his short career has surpassed every RB but Jim Brown.  And in the last 41 games, he has BEEN BETTER than Jim Brown's best 41 game stretch.  As a grey beard, I do not think you know what you are saying or seeing.  Henry is on a historic run.  Every player is one injury away from the end.  We do not judge what may happen.  Judge what he is doing in a historical context.  Right now Henry and Brown are the ONLY RB ever to do what they are doing.  Brown played on great Cleveland teams.  Henry's Tacks are average and his OL sucks.

That there's talk about his place in history says a lot, but right now he's almost 12000 yards and 100 TDs off the career lead. But he's playing great and it's not unrealistic for him to finish his career among the leaders.

That being said if he had an injury injury next week that either ended his career or lowered his production significantly would you say he's the greatest running back ever?

Talking about the greatest is a difficult thing, but right now he's done a good job getting the start of a Hall of Fame resume ready.

So Henry had a serious foot injury. It's probably the end of his big run. If it is then let's say the rest of his career looks something like this:

2022: 150 carries, 700 yards, 8 TDs
2023: 130 carries, 550 yards, 6 TDs
2024 (on a new team after the titans release him): 200 carries, 900 yards, 10 TDs
2025: 100 carries, 350 yards, 2 TDs.

Giving him career totals of around 8500 yards and 91 TDs. Is he a Hall of famer with no big Superbowl performances or anything like that?

Probably not, he's already 27, will be 28 in January, and a chronic foot problem is pretty much the worst condition a running back can have. It's likely he finishes out his career over the next few years as a lesser player that gets released because of his salary, maybe has one last hurrah for a better team (maybe the Jaguars?) Then becomes another guy whose career just wasn't long enough to be a hall of famer.
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#40

(11-01-2021, 11:47 AM)SeldomRite Wrote:
(10-19-2021, 10:16 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: That there's talk about his place in history says a lot, but right now he's almost 12000 yards and 100 TDs off the career lead. But he's playing great and it's not unrealistic for him to finish his career among the leaders.

That being said if he had an injury injury next week that either ended his career or lowered his production significantly would you say he's the greatest running back ever?

Talking about the greatest is a difficult thing, but right now he's done a good job getting the start of a Hall of Fame resume ready.

So Henry had a serious foot injury. It's probably the end of his big run. If it is then let's say the rest of his career looks something like this:

2022: 150 carries, 700 yards, 8 TDs
2023: 130 carries, 550 yards, 6 TDs
2024 (on a new team after the titans release him): 200 carries, 900 yards, 10 TDs
2025: 100 carries, 350 yards, 2 TDs.

Giving him career totals of around 8500 yards and 91 TDs. Is he a Hall of famer with no big Superbowl performances or anything like that?

Probably not, he's already 27, will be 28 in January, and a chronic foot problem is pretty much the worst condition a running back can have. It's likely he finishes out his career over the next few years as a lesser player that gets released because of his salary, maybe has one last hurrah for a better team (maybe the Jaguars?) Then becomes another guy whose career just wasn't long enough to be a hall of famer.


Exactly --- Jamal Lewis finished a 9 year career with 10,600 yards rushing and 1,800 yards receiving and NOBODY thinks he's a hall of famer.
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