It’s a QB league. Just give it time.

Ask Stafford about that little quip.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

It's an interesting model. They focus on late picks, and fill specific roles with them. So, you still have the task of hitting on the picks (and FA), but the risk is a lot lower when most of your work is being done on day 3 picks or leftover FA. Nobody else is doing that, and it's worked for them thusfar.

The Rams approach is far from novel or original.  If you are focusing on the acquiring veteran aspect of it, Washington did that a lot in the 70s and 1980s.

But I think focusing on veterans alone misses a huge part of the analysis.

The Rams, like many other successful teams dating back to the 1980s, took chances on insanely takebted guys lesser teams deemed too cancerous to retain.

The last year the Rams went to the Super Bowl, they traded for Dante Fowler, whom the Jaguars traded away after he got into the training camp fight with Ngakoue.  Now, the Rams are considered one of the leading contenders in the NFC in part because they traded for Jalen Ramsey, another guy deemed too cancerous to keep.  But the Rams were on the opposite end of this dynamic decades earlier.  The Rams thought Kevin Greene and Jerome Bettis were not worth the hassle they represented and let them walk.  Both wound up in Pittsburgh, where they went on to Super bowls and Hall of Fame careers,while the Rams languished in mediocrity for years after jettisoning those guys, wastign draft capital trying to replace them.

Last year's Super Bowl champion, Tampa Bay, got key contributons from two guys deemed too much of a headache for their original teams.  Those guys were Antonio Brown and Leonard Fournette.  Both remain key contributors to the Bucs current success.  While the Steelers have sustained their success after Brown's departure, the Jaguars have fallen off after they cut Fournette.

Marshawn Lynch was jettisoned by the Buffalo Bills for numerous off field transgressions.  They felt they couldn't win with him.  But Lynch wound up in Seattle, where he wound up a key contributor to their back to  back Super Bowl seasons and is probably one of the most beloved players in Seahawks history.  Meanwhile, the Bills languished for several more seasons after allowing Lynch to walk.

The Patriots have sustained their success over the past two decades in part by taking chances on guys like Corey Dillon, Randy Moss, Bryan Cox that were deemed malcontents by their original teams.

People in the Jets organization found Keyshawn Johnson to be obnoxious and divisive.  Yet Tampa added him to their roster and he added 106 receptions to Tampa's first Super bowl winning team.

In 1996, the Jaguars thought Andre Rison was too much of a problem on and off the field, but the Packers added the former first round pick after the Jaguars released him and won the Super Bowl that same year, with Rison catching a TD pass in that very game.

Charles Haley was a superior pass rusher who had made several Pro Bowls and helped the 49ers reach two Super Bowls in the late 1980s.  But the 49ers got tired of his antics and traded him to Dallas.  Dallas wound up winning three Super bowls with him as the leading pass rusher.

There are nyriad other examples I could cite but I have omitted them for time.

Why is it these so called cancers and malcontents were incompatible with their original teams winning but were able to help subsequent teams to championships?  If they were that caustic, that damaging to a team's psyche, why didn't they derail these teams from winning championships?  Why do these lesser teams who purge their rosters of these talented cancers almost never in a position to prosper after these guys leave?

The fact is, the lesser teams almost always make a mistake getting rid of talented players who have no substance abuse issues but who are otherwise deemed nuisances or cancers.  The better teams almost always exploit these teams and thier mistakes to their benefit.

Bullseye, you are one of, if not the, best posters on the board.  I consistently learn from you, even when I don't share you opinion.  And your continual drumbeat of Ramsey love drives me mad.

Your overall point is solid.  We have not kept enough blue chip talent over the years.  But ridding this franchise of that sorry human being was not a mistake.  You can make a pretty strong argument that the Keystone Cops running this franchise squandered the capital we got from the trade.  But getting rid of him?  Priceless.

I'd love to be cheering the Rams as they make this (likely) Super Bowl run because of Stafford, Michel, and Floyd.  But Ramsey is the turd in the punchbowl.  Will I be happy for them and McVey if they win?  Yes.  But not really joyful because it will legitimize the other guy.  I will never forget his lies, self-centeredness, and negative example and influence on this team.  I don't care that he is a potential HOF talent.  Goodbye and good riddance.

---

Fix the O-Line!

The difference is that every one of those teams who took in a malcontent had either team or coaching leadership who kept them under control. The Jaguars have a coach who can't keep himself under control. There's also a tremendous difference in player empowerment now that hinders that ability to rein them in somewhat. I'm fine with free agency acquisitions or a draft first strategy, because our problem is already here, pacing the sidelines with a confused look on his face most of the time.

True Urban Meyer can't keep himself under control, as evidenced by what happened after the Cincinnati game.

But all of these moves except for the trades of Henderson and Sidney Jones took place before Meyer got here.

Furthermore, Marrone was reputed to be a disciplinarian along the lines of Coughlin when he got here.  He took out all of the games in the locker room, etc.  Besides, Ramsey has stated he didn't have issues with Marrone, and in the aftermath of the incident in Houston, Marrone stated he had no issues with Ramsey.  It was Jaguars management he had the issues with.

The fact is, the team needed to do more to work through the issues with these players.

There is ZERO....and I mean ZERO excuse for there to be only one (1) productive player on this roster drafted in the first round between 2010-2020 (Josh Allen), when many of those players are still in the league.

There is scant justification for an approach that leads to  2-21 record over the last season and a half, so soon after reaching the AFC championship.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

The difference is that every one of those teams who took in a malcontent had either team or coaching leadership who kept them under control. The Jaguars have a coach who can't keep himself under control. There's also a tremendous difference in player empowerment now that hinders that ability to rein them in somewhat. I'm fine with free agency acquisitions or a draft first strategy, because our problem is already here, pacing the sidelines with a confused look on his face most of the time.

True Urban Meyer can't keep himself under control, as evidenced by what happened after the Cincinnati game.

But all of these moves except for the trades of Henderson and Sidney Jones took place before Meyer got here.

Furthermore, Marrone was reputed to be a disciplinarian along the lines of Coughlin when he got here.  He took out all of the games in the locker room, etc.  Besides, Ramsey has stated he didn't have issues with Marrone, and in the aftermath of the incident in Houston, Marrone stated he had no issues with Ramsey.  It was Jaguars management he had the issues with.

The fact is, the team needed to do more to work through the issues with these players.

There is ZERO....and I mean ZERO excuse for there to be only one (1) productive player on this roster drafted in the first round between 2010-2020 (Josh Allen), when many of those players are still in the league.

There is scant justification for an approach that leads to  2-21 record over the last season and a half, so soon after reaching the AFC championship.

I'm certainly not defending any of them,  it's just that nothing done recently is all that different from the last few years. Gross mismanagment of the roster and game day continues apace, almost like we didn't make any leadership changes at all.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

In fairness Dareus and Bouye were done and Yan got a more than generous offer but thought he was worth way more than he actually was. The Mayor should've been kept, he clearly had nore in the tank.

Yes, Dareus was done.  He's not one of the guys I was referencing in my earlier post, though I DID reference him later.  Bouye is still playing in Carolina, and had a better game than Tyson Campbell has had all year.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

In fairness Dareus and Bouye were done and Yan got a more than generous offer but thought he was worth way more than he actually was. The Mayor should've been kept, he clearly had nore in the tank.

Yes, Dareus was done.  He's not one of the guys I was referencing in my earlier post, though I DID reference him later.  Bouye is still playing in Carolina, and had a better game than Tyson Campbell has had all year.

Perhaps, but I think it speaks that Bouye is in Carolina not Denver and had a drug suspension last year. I wouldn't have taken Campbell either though, so I'm not a  proponent of our actions there. I liked all those guys too, but that window closed when we lost Telvin, Church, and, probably most importantly Poz.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

The Rams approach is far from novel or original.  If you are focusing on the acquiring veteran aspect of it, Washington did that a lot in the 70s and 1980s.

But I think focusing on veterans alone misses a huge part of the analysis.

The Rams, like many other successful teams dating back to the 1980s, took chances on insanely takebted guys lesser teams deemed too cancerous to retain.

The last year the Rams went to the Super Bowl, they traded for Dante Fowler, whom the Jaguars traded away after he got into the training camp fight with Ngakoue.  Now, the Rams are considered one of the leading contenders in the NFC in part because they traded for Jalen Ramsey, another guy deemed too cancerous to keep.  But the Rams were on the opposite end of this dynamic decades earlier.  The Rams thought Kevin Greene and Jerome Bettis were not worth the hassle they represented and let them walk.  Both wound up in Pittsburgh, where they went on to Super bowls and Hall of Fame careers,while the Rams languished in mediocrity for years after jettisoning those guys, wastign draft capital trying to replace them.

Last year's Super Bowl champion, Tampa Bay, got key contributons from two guys deemed too much of a headache for their original teams.  Those guys were Antonio Brown and Leonard Fournette.  Both remain key contributors to the Bucs current success.  While the Steelers have sustained their success after Brown's departure, the Jaguars have fallen off after they cut Fournette.

Marshawn Lynch was jettisoned by the Buffalo Bills for numerous off field transgressions.  They felt they couldn't win with him.  But Lynch wound up in Seattle, where he wound up a key contributor to their back to  back Super Bowl seasons and is probably one of the most beloved players in Seahawks history.  Meanwhile, the Bills languished for several more seasons after allowing Lynch to walk.

The Patriots have sustained their success over the past two decades in part by taking chances on guys like Corey Dillon, Randy Moss, Bryan Cox that were deemed malcontents by their original teams.

People in the Jets organization found Keyshawn Johnson to be obnoxious and divisive.  Yet Tampa added him to their roster and he added 106 receptions to Tampa's first Super bowl winning team.

In 1996, the Jaguars thought Andre Rison was too much of a problem on and off the field, but the Packers added the former first round pick after the Jaguars released him and won the Super Bowl that same year, with Rison catching a TD pass in that very game.

Charles Haley was a superior pass rusher who had made several Pro Bowls and helped the 49ers reach two Super Bowls in the late 1980s.  But the 49ers got tired of his antics and traded him to Dallas.  Dallas wound up winning three Super bowls with him as the leading pass rusher.

There are nyriad other examples I could cite but I have omitted them for time.

Why is it these so called cancers and malcontents were incompatible with their original teams winning but were able to help subsequent teams to championships?  If they were that caustic, that damaging to a team's psyche, why didn't they derail these teams from winning championships?  Why do these lesser teams who purge their rosters of these talented cancers almost never in a position to prosper after these guys leave?

The fact is, the lesser teams almost always make a mistake getting rid of talented players who have no substance abuse issues but who are otherwise deemed nuisances or cancers.  The better teams almost always exploit these teams and thier mistakes to their benefit.

Bullseye, you are one of, if not the, best posters on the board.  I consistently learn from you, even when I don't share you opinion.  And your continual drumbeat of Ramsey love drives me mad.

Your overall point is solid.  We have not kept enough blue chip talent over the years.  But ridding this franchise of that sorry human being was not a mistake.  You can make a pretty strong argument that the Keystone Cops running this franchise squandered the capital we got from the trade.  But getting rid of him?  Priceless.

I'd love to be cheering the Rams as they make this (likely) Super Bowl run because of Stafford, Michel, and Floyd.  But Ramsey is the turd in the punchbowl.  Will I be happy for them and McVey if they win?  Yes.  But not really joyful because it will legitimize the other guy.  I will never forget his lies, self-centeredness, and negative example and influence on this team.  I don't care that he is a potential HOF talent.  Goodbye and good riddance.

Thanks for the kind words.

As for Ramsey, we'll vehemently disagree on that.

As you know, I've never had much use for Vic Ketchman.  But one of my favorite quotes from him was "Football is not a game for the well adjusted."  Over the course of a year, there is going to be conflict between a group of 53 players and maybe a dozen or more coaches, plus management/ownership.  It's inevitable.   You say Ramsey is this contemptible human being, but what has he done that was SOOO bad?  He had the child out of wedlock with the sister of the Giants' (?) WR and then dumped her.  He had the thing after the Ngakoue and Fowler fight where he acosted the media.  He had the interview with GQ where he trashed several opposing QBs.  He had the training camp arrival with the Brinks truck, supposedly had some not flattering things to say about Calais Campbell, the thing in Houston, and when that escalated further, he quit on the team to force a trade.  None of that is ideal behavior, to be sure.  But how has that translated into disaster for the Rams?  Have the Rams not been a winning team since his arrival?  Hasn't he agreed to a long term deal with them since he arrived?  Has there been any serious locker room turmoil surrounding him?  Have there been any violations of the league's personal conduct or substance abuse policies by him leading to suspensions?  Have there been any arrests?  In an ideal world, we'd love for all players to be boy scouts in terms of behavior, attitude, etc.  But where is the link between whatever undesirable/dysfunctional character traits Ramsey may have and negative team performance/outcomes with the Rams?  Conversely, Henderson and Campbell haven't displayed the things Ramsey did from a character standpoint, yet neither has contributed anywhere near as positive results in their combined short tenures here as Ramsey did in his first two years here.  I would suggest that his football skills far outweigh whatever character flaws he may have or you may find distasteful.  The Rams obviously agree, because they signed him to a long term deal, he continues to start for them, is one of the best defensive players in the league and starring on a Rams defense with stars on each level of the defense.  He's probably the second best player on the team behind Aaron Donald, and he isn't that far behind.

Turd in the punchbowl?

Somehow I don't think the Rams would agree with your assessment given their actions on and off the field surrounding him.

But let's say Ramsey is every bit the lousy human being you say, and his flaws outweigh what he provides on the field.  That can't possibly be true for every player we've jettisoned during that time, can it?

What did Ngakoue do that was so bad?  Fought a teammate?  Get in contentious contract negotiations with the team?

Fournette?  Miss team photos, and have the meltdown in Buffalo?

This team, this town, this fanbase is too quick to label guys as pariahs and push to get rid of them.

Charlie Casserly observed that first round picks have maybe a 50% chance of becoming a solid starter for the team that drafted them, and the odds go down considerably per round.  We had a string of players between 2016 and 2020 to actually beat those odds and not just become quality starters but Pro bowl or better caliber players, and we got rid of them all before they ever got their second contracts with the team.  They all were painted as malcontents, etc., and they all went on to produce for subsequent teams who have all been far more successful than we have been.

This has GOT to stop!

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Jags had to get rid of a lot of players to win the Lawrence draft. 2018-2020 is this team tanking for trevor

---

Let's say it will catch up to them.

Can you say they would definitively be any worse than we are now? 

No. This team is strapped for talent. I agree. Use some of these drafts picks to get some good players that can help win.

I mentioned there is scant justification for this team's approach to roster building.

Trevor Lawrence is that justification.

But if we can't add the talent around him, or keep the talent when we do manage to add it, then not even he will justify such neolithic incompetence when it comes to retaining talented and productive players.

If we continue to fail at talent acquisition/retention, Trevor Lawrence will not become our Andrew Luck.

Far worse, he will become our Archie manning...or our Jim Plunkett-pre Raiders Jim Plunkett.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

It's easy for the Ram's. They are Los Angeles. We are Jacksonville. Given that, we most certainly will have to overpay for free agents to even get them to mildly consider coming here versus there. And even then it may not work since local endorsements in LA will override any difference.

---

"Remember Red, Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."  - Andy Dufresne, The Shawshank Redemption

It's an interesting model. They focus on late picks, and fill specific roles with them. So, you still have the task of hitting on the picks (and FA), but the risk is a lot lower when most of your work is being done on day 3 picks or leftover FA. Nobody else is doing that, and it's worked for them thusfar.

The Rams approach is far from novel or original.  If you are focusing on the acquiring veteran aspect of it, Washington did that a lot in the 70s and 1980s.

But I think focusing on veterans alone misses a huge part of the analysis.

The Rams, like many other successful teams dating back to the 1980s, took chances on insanely talented guys lesser teams deemed too cancerous to retain.

[many good examples removed for space]

Why is it these so called cancers and malcontents were incompatible with their original teams winning but were able to help subsequent teams to championships?  If they were that caustic, that damaging to a team's psyche, why didn't they derail these teams from winning championships?  Why do these lesser teams who purge their rosters of these talented cancers almost never in a position to prosper after these guys leave?

The fact is, the lesser teams almost always make a mistake getting rid of talented players who have no substance abuse issues but who are otherwise deemed nuisances or cancers.  The better teams almost always exploit these teams and thier mistakes to their benefit.

I think in almost every example you gave, though, the malcontent/troublemaker was shipped off to a winner, often with a franchise QB or long-standing coach at the helm who wasn't going to tolerate the BS along the way. The teams for the most part were capable of winning with or without that new player, and the rest of the culture in that locker room is focused solely on the postseason. 

We've argued this point in the past, though. If you have a guy like Ramsey or Yan who simply refuse to take the field or try to drag the rest of the locker room down to their level of discontent, what other choice do you have but to ship them off? Usually the only teams willing to take on those challenges are the ones that are stable, built to win now, and are focused on maximizing present results in lieu of mortgaging future prospects in the form of picks needed to acquire the talented, yet disgruntled players.

---

The Rams have a way to drive revenue and flaunt the cap as well. Signing bonus and up front money is straight cash and capital. This team is operating on the cheap overall.

Hey we found a way to retain Tavan.

---

The Khan Years

Patience, Persistence, and Piss Poor General Managers.

It’s a QB league. Just give it time.

Ask Stafford about that little quip.

Or Luck, Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers.

Jagfanatic24 probably thinks Brady is the only good player on the Bucs.

---

"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

The Rams approach is far from novel or original.  If you are focusing on the acquiring veteran aspect of it, Washington did that a lot in the 70s and 1980s.

But I think focusing on veterans alone misses a huge part of the analysis.

The Rams, like many other successful teams dating back to the 1980s, took chances on insanely talented guys lesser teams deemed too cancerous to retain.

[many good examples removed for space]

Why is it these so called cancers and malcontents were incompatible with their original teams winning but were able to help subsequent teams to championships?  If they were that caustic, that damaging to a team's psyche, why didn't they derail these teams from winning championships?  Why do these lesser teams who purge their rosters of these talented cancers almost never in a position to prosper after these guys leave?

The fact is, the lesser teams almost always make a mistake getting rid of talented players who have no substance abuse issues but who are otherwise deemed nuisances or cancers.  The better teams almost always exploit these teams and thier mistakes to their benefit.

I think in almost every example you gave, though, the malcontent/troublemaker was shipped off to a winner, often with a franchise QB or long-standing coach at the helm who wasn't going to tolerate the BS along the way. The teams for the most part were capable of winning with or without that new player, and the rest of the culture in that locker room is focused solely on the postseason. 

We've argued this point in the past, though. If you have a guy like Ramsey or Yan who simply refuse to take the field or try to drag the rest of the locker room down to their level of discontent, what other choice do you have but to ship them off? Usually the only teams willing to take on those challenges are the ones that are stable, built to win now, and are focused on maximizing present results in lieu of mortgaging future prospects in the form of picks needed to acquire the talented, yet disgruntled players.

Generally that's true but it's far from universal.

Jimmy Johnson was not a "long standing coach" at Dallas, only being there three years prior to acquiring Charles Haley.  Aikman had been there the same length of time, and had not established himself firmly as a franchise QB at the time of the Haley trade.

Gruden wasn't in Tampa long when he made the deal for Keyshawn.

But your post here raises troubling questions.

What are we to make of the Parcells era with the Giants? 

Phil Simms was drafted in 1979.  Lawrence Taylor arrived at the Giants in 1981.    Parcells arrived two years later.  Taylor was a known drug user who was always late to practice because of golfing and other activities.  he used to hire prostitutes and send them to opposing teams' RBs the night before a game.  Who knows what else he was into?  If the equation of having a cancer/malcontent is that it's only allowed with a franchise Qb and a long established coach, how did the Giants ascend to two time Super Bowl champs in 1986 & 1990 with Taylor?  Phil Simms was not established as a Pro bowl QB, nor was Parcells a long standing coach.  Under your line of thought, he couldn't have been brought under control or have been of any benefit to the Giants.  He should have just been shipped off because he was trouble.  Similarly, the Bucs didn't have a franchise QB or a long standing head coach when they drafted Warren Sapp in 1995.  They had lost and lost big for over a decade leading up to 1995.  Sapp has long been alleged by many to be a bad human being....or a turd.  Dungy had just arrived in 1995.  Under your logic, the Bucs should never have drafted him in the first place. 

As for teams being built to win now, doesn't that describe the Jaguars of 2019? The defense was still formidable after 17 and 18 still being young, talented and just two years removed from the AFC championship game. They signed Foles thinking that they weren't far away. They had to think they were close to winning. As for stability, I submit a franchise can't possibly be stable if they are constantly shipping out it's best players (see Jacksonville, 2019-present).

Those examples show that teams who err on the side of superior talent, whether drafting it or trading for it, reap the benefits in big ways.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

The Rams have a way to drive revenue and flaunt the cap as well. Signing bonus and up front money is straight cash and capital. This team is operating on the cheap overall.

Hey we found a way to retain Tavan.

I don't assert we could/should have kept every great or good player.

From a cap perspective, that would not have been tenable and eventually th team would have gotten old.

Calais Campbell and AJ Bouye were good trades generally, especially if you sacrificed their salaries to keep younger and more talented players at premium positions like Ramsey and Ngakoue.

But getting rid of every single one of those guys irrespective of age, performance, positional importance, etc. was suicidal.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I think in almost every example you gave, though, the malcontent/troublemaker was shipped off to a winner, often with a franchise QB or long-standing coach at the helm who wasn't going to tolerate the BS along the way. The teams for the most part were capable of winning with or without that new player, and the rest of the culture in that locker room is focused solely on the postseason. 

We've argued this point in the past, though. If you have a guy like Ramsey or Yan who simply refuse to take the field or try to drag the rest of the locker room down to their level of discontent, what other choice do you have but to ship them off? Usually the only teams willing to take on those challenges are the ones that are stable, built to win now, and are focused on maximizing present results in lieu of mortgaging future prospects in the form of picks needed to acquire the talented, yet disgruntled players.

Generally that's true but it's far from universal.

Jimmy Johnson was not a "long standing coach" at Dallas, only being there three years prior to acquiring Charles Haley.  Aikman had been there the same length of time, and had not established himself firmly as a franchise QB at the time of the Haley trade.

Gruden wasn't in Tampa long when he made the deal for Keyshawn.

But your post here raises troubling questions.

What are we to make of the Parcells era with the Giants? 

Phil Simms was drafted in 1979.  Lawrence Taylor arrived at the Giants in 1981.    Parcells arrived two years later.  Taylor was a known drug user who was always late to practice because of golfing and other activities.  he used to hire prostitutes and send them to opposing teams' RBs the night before a game.  Who knows what else he was into?  If the equation of having a cancer/malcontent is that it's only allowed with a franchise Qb and a long established coach, how did the Giants ascend to two time Super Bowl champs in 1986 & 1990 with Taylor?  Phil Simms was not established as a Pro bowl QB, nor was Parcells a long standing coach.  Under your line of thought, he couldn't have been brought under control or have been of any benefit to the Giants.  He should have just been shipped off because he was trouble.  Similarly, the Bucs didn't have a franchise QB or a long standing head coach when they drafted Warren Sapp in 1995.  They had lost and lost big for over a decade leading up to 1995.  Sapp has long been alleged by many to be a bad human being....or a turd.  Dungy had just arrived in 1995.  Under your logic, the Bucs should never have drafted him in the first place. 

As for teams being built to win now, doesn't that describe the Jaguars of 2019?  The defense was still formidable after 17 and 18 still being young, talented and just two years removed from the AFC championship game.  They signed Foles thinking that they weren't far away.  They had to think they were close to winning.  As for stability, I submit a franchise can't possibly be stable if they are constantly shipping out it's best players (see Jacksonville, 2019-present).

Those examples show that teams who err on the side of superior talent, whether drafting it or trading for it, reap the benefits in big ways.

"Good" coach and "longstanding" coach aren't the same thing.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Bullseye, you are one of, if not the, best posters on the board.  I consistently learn from you, even when I don't share you opinion.  And your continual drumbeat of Ramsey love drives me mad.

Your overall point is solid.  We have not kept enough blue chip talent over the years.  But ridding this franchise of that sorry human being was not a mistake.  You can make a pretty strong argument that the Keystone Cops running this franchise squandered the capital we got from the trade.  But getting rid of him?  Priceless.

I'd love to be cheering the Rams as they make this (likely) Super Bowl run because of Stafford, Michel, and Floyd.  But Ramsey is the turd in the punchbowl.  Will I be happy for them and McVey if they win?  Yes.  But not really joyful because it will legitimize the other guy.  I will never forget his lies, self-centeredness, and negative example and influence on this team.  I don't care that he is a potential HOF talent.  Goodbye and good riddance.

Thanks for the kind words.

As for Ramsey, we'll vehemently disagree on that.

As you know, I've never had much use for Vic Ketchman.  But one of my favorite quotes from him was "Football is not a game for the well adjusted."  Over the course of a year, there is going to be conflict between a group of 53 players and maybe a dozen or more coaches, plus management/ownership.  It's inevitable.   You say Ramsey is this contemptible human being, but what has he done that was SOOO bad?  He had the child out of wedlock with the sister of the Giants' (?) WR and then dumped her.  He had the thing after the Ngakoue and Fowler fight where he acosted the media.  He had the interview with GQ where he trashed several opposing QBs.  He had the training camp arrival with the Brinks truck, supposedly had some not flattering things to say about Calais Campbell, the thing in Houston, and when that escalated further, he quit on the team to force a trade.  None of that is ideal behavior, to be sure.  But how has that translated into disaster for the Rams?  Have the Rams not been a winning team since his arrival?  Hasn't he agreed to a long term deal with them since he arrived?  Has there been any serious locker room turmoil surrounding him?  Have there been any violations of the league's personal conduct or substance abuse policies by him leading to suspensions?  Have there been any arrests?  In an ideal world, we'd love for all players to be boy scouts in terms of behavior, attitude, etc.  But where is the link between whatever undesirable/dysfunctional character traits Ramsey may have and negative team performance/outcomes with the Rams?  Conversely, Henderson and Campbell haven't displayed the things Ramsey did from a character standpoint, yet neither has contributed anywhere near as positive results in their combined short tenures here as Ramsey did in his first two years here.  I would suggest that his football skills far outweigh whatever character flaws he may have or you may find distasteful.  The Rams obviously agree, because they signed him to a long term deal, he continues to start for them, is one of the best defensive players in the league and starring on a Rams defense with stars on each level of the defense.  He's probably the second best player on the team behind Aaron Donald, and he isn't that far behind.

Turd in the punchbowl?

Somehow I don't think the Rams would agree with your assessment given their actions on and off the field surrounding him.

But let's say Ramsey is every bit the lousy human being you say, and his flaws outweigh what he provides on the field.  That can't possibly be true for every player we've jettisoned during that time, can it?

What did Ngakoue do that was so bad?  Fought a teammate?  Get in contentious contract negotiations with the team?

Fournette?  Miss team photos, and have the meltdown in Buffalo?

This team, this town, this fanbase is too quick to label guys as pariahs and push to get rid of them.

Charlie Casserly observed that first round picks have maybe a 50% chance of becoming a solid starter for the team that drafted them, and the odds go down considerably per round.  We had a string of players between 2016 and 2020 to actually beat those odds and not just become quality starters but Pro bowl or better caliber players, and we got rid of them all before they ever got their second contracts with the team.  They all were painted as malcontents, etc., and they all went on to produce for subsequent teams who have all been far more successful than we have been.

This has GOT to stop!

The Ramsey situation was handled terribly by the previous regime. He should of had a contract long ago making it hard to even move him. During Ramsey's tenure here he was very immature but a strong front office and head coach would have handled that easily. We had neither. Same goes for all the other headcases Fournette and Ngakoue.

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It seems all of our GM's since the very early days have gone from Mediocre to Bad at drafting players.   The draft is a pure crap shoot but the jags constantly are crapping out with the picks.   The Rams over the last several years have traded almost all of their draft capital for guaranteed NFL talent.  Including Ramsey and Fowler from us.  I keep hearing the same old cliche of building through the draft but with all the draft captial we have had the past decade it's not working for us.  It is an out of the box idea but the Rams have been contenders for years now using this method.  

I for one am tired of seeing first round talent under perform here.  I would much rather trade that pick for proven NFL talent. Lets take our draft captial and do some shopping .  Just a thought..

Rams have a window of opportunity to win a superbowl and their going for it but that roster is 50/50 from drafting correctly and making trades.

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I've always been a proponent of building through the draft and adding some key pieces via FA.

Despite the Jags having multiple failed GMs accounting for a mountain of bad draft choices, I still believe it is the best way to build a roster.
It's just that landing a GM who can build that way effectively is probably about as difficult as finding a franchise QB in this league.
And we've seen how tough that has been for our team and many others around the league.

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Jags had to get rid of a lot of players to win the Lawrence draft. 2018-2020 is this team tanking for trevor

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No. This team is strapped for talent. I agree. Use some of these drafts picks to get some good players that can help win.

I mentioned there is scant justification for this team's approach to roster building.

Trevor Lawrence is that justification.

But if we can't add the talent around him, or keep the talent when we do manage to add it, then not even he will justify such neolithic incompetence when it comes to retaining talented and productive players.

If we continue to fail at talent acquisition/retention, Trevor Lawrence will not become our Andrew Luck.

Far worse, he will become our Archie manning...or our Jim Plunkett-pre Raiders Jim Plunkett.

ugggh....Patriots Jim Plunkett was an ugly Plunkett indeed. I remember that team....

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"Remember Red, Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."  - Andy Dufresne, The Shawshank Redemption

I've always been a proponent of building through the draft and adding some key pieces via FA.

Despite the Jags having multiple failed GMs accounting for a mountain of bad draft choices, I still believe it is the best way to build a roster.
It's just that landing a GM who can build that way effectively is probably about as difficult as finding a franchise QB in this league.
And we've seen how tough that has been for our team and many others around the league.

You are not kidding. I would be fine with this year's draft if they had shored up free agency with better players.

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The Khan Years

Patience, Persistence, and Piss Poor General Managers.

I've always been a proponent of building through the draft and adding some key pieces via FA.

Despite the Jags having multiple failed GMs accounting for a mountain of bad draft choices, I still believe it is the best way to build a roster.
It's just that landing a GM who can build that way effectively is probably about as difficult as finding a franchise QB in this league.
And we've seen how tough that has been for our team and many others around the league.

Amen! Part of the problem is that Khan allowed himself to get fooled by a "snake oil salesman" in Urban Meyer. He let a guy with no NFL experience and a bad reputation talk him into handing over all the decision making. I don't know just how much power Baalke actually has, but his hiring was just a lazy move, as he was a holdover from the last failed regime. Anyone paying attention to what had happened in the past, should've known that simply promoting a guy from a failed front office not only here, but in San Francisco, where he totally demolished a very good team, was a bad idea. Hiring a failed GM and a head coach with no NFL experience was a doomed effort from the beginning. Instead of hiring an experienced NFL person with a good track record, Khan chose to turn this team over to an inexperienced, "splashy" name that would get in the headlines. Now, he looks like a complete fool. Khan has to see the error he has made and admit he was wrong, in order to right this ship. I just don't think that is gonna happen anytime soon. I'm preparing for the same kind of misguided and chaotic offseason that we had last year with poor draft choices and no good players coming here in free agency. I fear we'll just keep digging a bigger hole for ourselves until this front office and coaching staff are gone and Khan starts bringing in people with proven NFL track records.

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