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Impressions From the Colts Game

#21

(11-15-2021, 09:38 AM)The Real Marty Wrote:
(11-14-2021, 10:11 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: I agree. I am not a fan of Bevell.

In Bevell's defense, you can't scheme your way out of certain personnel limitations.  It might work for a game or two, but when opponents get some film to look at, and see what you are doing, they adjust, and if your personnel isn't good enough to counter-adjust, you are pretty screwed.  Right now, we don't have a receiver that can stretch the defense, so the defenders are no longer afraid of getting beat deep, so they cover the shorter routes that were working earlier in the year, and there's nothing we can do about it.  

That's what I'm noticing.  That's why Trevor is trying to throw to guys who are well-covered.  There aren't a lot of open receivers because defenses are starting to squat on the short routes, because they are not afraid of getting beat deep.   If you are an offensive coordinator, you can't scheme your way out of that.

Bevell has plenty of opportunity to scheme more wisely than he is/has. 

For starters - there is no basis for not including more quick release stuff for Trevor. 

It works when he employs it, but he doesn't do it enough. 
Same can be said for his boneheaded use of James Robinson. 

The number of three and outs this year that have been at least two (sometimes 3) straight pass attempts of 15 yards or more is egregious. 

Small ball dink and dunk stuff is an obvious prescription for a rookie QB, and there is no good reason it isn't happening more.  

I'm sure more talent would make Bevell look better, but he's absolutely not getting the most out of what he does have available.
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#22

(11-15-2021, 09:05 AM)Jag88 Wrote: That blocked punt ruined the game. This was a winnable game! The jags still need a little more help on d. Like a little. The d looks really nasty good lately. in the draft , it think 1 more cb and a line backer. Playmakers. Cullen scheme is what the jags fans have been asking for.

I agree on linebacker, notwithstanding Dylan Moses next year, would like one more ILB and another OLB. And you can never have enough corners. But biggest need is WR1 and WR2 and OLine help
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#23
(This post was last modified: 11-15-2021, 11:07 AM by Mikey.)

(11-15-2021, 05:16 AM)Senor Fantastico Wrote: The pass rush went from a joke to dare I say... looking really really good? 

Wentz was running around quite a bit. It's like they just flipped a switch all of the sudden.

Yeah, the rush was getting pressure, but dang if Wentz wasn't able to still find ways to get the ball out and often completed. I think switching to zone is allowing players to help players, not letting receivers get open behind the D and forcing the QB to scan the field for opportunities is giving them time to apply pressure. Add in that we brought in a bunch of new players and a new scheme this offseason, and it makes sense that we're seeing progress at this point in the year.

Offensively, I want to say we are last in the league in 3rd down yardage to go. You're never going to be successful leading that statistic. We've also gone how long without breaking 20 pts in a game? Another stat that will not bode well for the W-L record.

I'll credit the D, we spotted the shoes a 17-0 lead and they clamped down and kept the game close in the end. In previous years, the give-up would have made this an embarrassing loss.

(11-15-2021, 09:05 AM)Jag88 Wrote: That blocked punt ruined the game. This was a winnable game! The jags still need a little more help on d. Like a little. The d looks really nasty good lately. in the draft , it think 1 more cb and a line backer. Playmakers. Cullen scheme is what the jags fans have been asking for.

You could say the same thing about opening the game with a D that forgot Jonathan Taylor existed. We changed something up and it worked, but dang it would have been nice not to spot them 10 more on top of that botched punt.
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#24

(11-14-2021, 11:05 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: The big thing for me is that defense showed that last week wasn't a complete fluke.  No, it wasn't quite as good, but still a very respectable performance.  The Colts scored 23 points, but 7 points came off a blocked punt.  The defense only gave up 16 points.  The Colts scored 45 points last week and have scored 30+ points in each of the last four games.  I would also note that the Bills who we held to 6 points last week scored 45 points in their game today.  They've now scored 26+ points in seven straight games not counting the Jaguars and three of those games were 40+ points.  That's back to back good defensive performance by the Jaguars against high scoring teams.  The switch to the zone defense has clearly been successful.  Rudy Ford has also been a good addition to the lineup and we've also seen improved performance by various players including Allen, Smoot, Bryan, etc.

I couldn't agree more. This defense is one more pass rusher away from being very good. Fortunately for them, edge rusher looks like the deepest position in the 2022 draft. Baalke and Meyer need to get the "right guy." The guy that currently excites me the most is David Ojabu from Michigan. Both he and Hutchinson have have had great years, but Ojabu seems to have a higher ceiling due to the limited time he has played the position. I'd love to see either of these guys in teal next season. George Karlaftis is another solid player to consider if the Jaguars somehow win enough games to finish out of the top 5 picks. It goes without saying that Thibodeaux is the top edge rusher in this class, but he will not be available for the Jaguars.
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#25

(11-15-2021, 10:54 AM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(11-15-2021, 09:38 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: In Bevell's defense, you can't scheme your way out of certain personnel limitations.  It might work for a game or two, but when opponents get some film to look at, and see what you are doing, they adjust, and if your personnel isn't good enough to counter-adjust, you are pretty screwed.  Right now, we don't have a receiver that can stretch the defense, so the defenders are no longer afraid of getting beat deep, so they cover the shorter routes that were working earlier in the year, and there's nothing we can do about it.  

That's what I'm noticing.  That's why Trevor is trying to throw to guys who are well-covered.  There aren't a lot of open receivers because defenses are starting to squat on the short routes, because they are not afraid of getting beat deep.   If you are an offensive coordinator, you can't scheme your way out of that.

Bevell has plenty of opportunity to scheme more wisely than he is/has. 

For starters - there is no basis for not including more quick release stuff for Trevor. 

It works when he employs it, but he doesn't do it enough. 
Same can be said for his boneheaded use of James Robinson. 

The number of three and outs this year that have been at least two (sometimes 3) straight pass attempts of 15 yards or more is egregious. 

Small ball dink and dunk stuff is an obvious prescription for a rookie QB, and there is no good reason it isn't happening more.  

I'm sure more talent would make Bevell look better, but he's absolutely not getting the most out of what he does have available.

Could it be that once opponents figured out that we couldn't go downfield because of a lack of WR speed and talent, they brought one of their safeties down closer to the line of scrimmage and started covering that quick release stuff?
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#26

(11-16-2021, 09:45 AM)The Real Marty Wrote:
(11-15-2021, 10:54 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: Bevell has plenty of opportunity to scheme more wisely than he is/has. 

For starters - there is no basis for not including more quick release stuff for Trevor. 

It works when he employs it, but he doesn't do it enough. 
Same can be said for his boneheaded use of James Robinson. 

The number of three and outs this year that have been at least two (sometimes 3) straight pass attempts of 15 yards or more is egregious. 

Small ball dink and dunk stuff is an obvious prescription for a rookie QB, and there is no good reason it isn't happening more.  

I'm sure more talent would make Bevell look better, but he's absolutely not getting the most out of what he does have available.

Could it be that once opponents figured out that we couldn't go downfield because of a lack of WR speed and talent, they brought one of their safeties down closer to the line of scrimmage and started covering that quick release stuff?

I haven't seen that happening - have you?
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#27
(This post was last modified: 11-16-2021, 01:04 PM by The Real Marty. Edited 1 time in total.)

(11-16-2021, 12:44 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(11-16-2021, 09:45 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: Could it be that once opponents figured out that we couldn't go downfield because of a lack of WR speed and talent, they brought one of their safeties down closer to the line of scrimmage and started covering that quick release stuff?

I haven't seen that happening - have you?

Yes.  Absolutely.

We are facing compressed defenses, that seem to have no fear of getting beat deep.
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#28

I think we are overrating just how much the zone has helped. Remember that stat about how Josh Allen was literally the slowest rusher off the line the first I belive it was 4 weeks of the season, and then they showed that he was considerably above average since then?

I think the biggest difference is simply familiarity with the scheme. Players are reacting and not having to think that split second before reacting which as we all know is more than enough to get demolished in the NFL.
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#29

(11-16-2021, 01:03 PM)The Real Marty Wrote:
(11-16-2021, 12:44 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: I haven't seen that happening - have you?

Yes.  Absolutely.

We are facing compressed defenses, that seem to have no fear of getting beat deep.

Thumbing through all 22 of colts game. Majority of pass plays are just man coverage with a single high safety. Some "quarters" coverage sprinkled in sparsely.
If that's what you call "compressed," then OK, I guess.  Stuff over the middle, between the hashes and near the sticks can absolutely work against that cover one style.

I don't see it. I see lots of calls where Trevor's primary read is well past the sticks and if that read isn't open, he's pressured/flushed before he can get to a dump off. More plays designed to get rid of it quickly would be a boon for him IMO.
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#30

(11-16-2021, 10:32 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(11-16-2021, 01:03 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: Yes.  Absolutely.

We are facing compressed defenses, that seem to have no fear of getting beat deep.

Thumbing through all 22 of colts game. Majority of pass plays are just man coverage with a single high safety. Some "quarters" coverage sprinkled in sparsely.
If that's what you call "compressed," then OK, I guess.  Stuff over the middle, between the hashes and near the sticks can absolutely work against that cover one style.

I don't see it. I see lots of calls where Trevor's primary read is well past the sticks and if that read isn't open, he's pressured/flushed before he can get to a dump off. More plays designed to get rid of it quickly would be a boon for him IMO.


"...the lack of deep speed continues to allow defenders to press the line of scrimmage without fear of allowing big plays. This enables defenses to be more aggressive, creating a compressed field. That's not unlike the offense always operating in the red zone, which is the toughest part of NFL quarterbacking whatever the quarterback's experience. "

https://www.jaguars.com/news/quick-thoughts-on-to-week-11

That's what I believe is happening.  It's hard to make short throws when the defense is compressed like it's first and goal from the 5 yard line or something.  

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#31

(11-18-2021, 11:51 AM)The Real Marty Wrote:
(11-16-2021, 10:32 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: Thumbing through all 22 of colts game. Majority of pass plays are just man coverage with a single high safety. Some "quarters" coverage sprinkled in sparsely.
If that's what you call "compressed," then OK, I guess.  Stuff over the middle, between the hashes and near the sticks can absolutely work against that cover one style.

I don't see it. I see lots of calls where Trevor's primary read is well past the sticks and if that read isn't open, he's pressured/flushed before he can get to a dump off. More plays designed to get rid of it quickly would be a boon for him IMO.


"...the lack of deep speed continues to allow defenders to press the line of scrimmage without fear of allowing big plays. This enables defenses to be more aggressive, creating a compressed field. That's not unlike the offense always operating in the red zone, which is the toughest part of NFL quarterbacking whatever the quarterback's experience. "

https://www.jaguars.com/news/quick-thoughts-on-to-week-11

That's what I believe is happening.  It's hard to make short throws when the defense is compressed like it's first and goal from the 5 yard line or something.  

What I'm seeing on film doesn't match what Oehser is saying. 

Even if he were correct - would you rather Lawrence throw incompletions deep that give the pass rush time to clobber him -  or have him throw incompletions quick and short that don't get him killed? 

I'd err HEAVILY on the side of the latter. They are not doing that.
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#32
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2021, 09:20 PM by surfon.)

(11-18-2021, 02:45 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(11-18-2021, 11:51 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: "...the lack of deep speed continues to allow defenders to press the line of scrimmage without fear of allowing big plays. This enables defenses to be more aggressive, creating a compressed field. That's not unlike the offense always operating in the red zone, which is the toughest part of NFL quarterbacking whatever the quarterback's experience. "

https://www.jaguars.com/news/quick-thoughts-on-to-week-11

That's what I believe is happening.  It's hard to make short throws when the defense is compressed like it's first and goal from the 5 yard line or something.  

What I'm seeing on film doesn't match what Oehser is saying. 

Even if he were correct - would you rather Lawrence throw incompletions deep that give the pass rush time to clobber him -  or have him throw incompletions quick and short that don't get him killed? 

I'd err HEAVILY on the side of the latter. They are not doing that.

Agreed, as long as it does t lead to more pjcks being thrown by him in crowded traffic.  Not saying it would but its possibe.  He definitely needs some quicker throws for sure, however that can be rigged up.
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