I have wanted an update on him for weeks.  This seems promising.

It's about time we got some good news, between this, Rock Armstead's and Dan Arnold's return.

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We need to double dip at a lot of positions.

In fact, we need to triple dip along the O Line.

I'm not sure we have enough picks to effectively do that and address all of the positions, unless we luck out on a late pick or two.

Even if we wound up with the #1 overall pick and traded back, I still doubt that would be good enough. 

Nevertheless, I'm eager to see what Moses can do...if not late this year then by next training camp.

Agreed. I'd double dip at ILB, OLB and WR and I would add at least 3 O-Linemen. Preferably an OT, Center and an OG/OT. That's nine picks. I'd also like to add a Safety, TE and a pass rushing DE/DT. 

We have 12 picks, so we enough to do it, but depending on what we do in free agency, some areas may have to be scaled back a bit. If we traded Myles Jack, we could add one more. If I don't get to draft a CB, it's o.k. Since we went to zone coverage, I'm satisfied enough with our current starters, but if a CB is tops on my board, during any pick, I'm taking one. It's just not a priority. 

I'm not expecting miracles in 2022. I'd like to see a marked improvement though. That is a must. The record doesn't really matter. If we were to get back to .500 in 2023 and pushed for a playoff spot in 2024, I'd be fine with that. As bad as we are, we should all know this is gonna be a slow process. 

I really liked Moses before he was injured. I'm hoping he gets back to 100%. I'm just not gonna bank on it. We could use a lot of help at ILB.

Let me add the caveat that double dipping at LB will depend on the new coach and what kind of scheme he will run.

Since most of the candidates we are kicking around are offensive guys with the idea of developing Trevor Lawrence, they may or may not have a preference.  It's then theoretically possible that Cullen and the remaining defensive coaches are retained and we keep the 3-4, in which caase, then I'd double dip at LB.  But it's also possibl the guys have their schemes and coordinators already in mind, and the new coach may decide to switch us back to a 4-3.  If that happens, then I double dip at edge rusher -Hutchinson and then someone else down the road.  I know Pederson ran a 4-3 with the Eagles. Jim Shcwartz was his defensive coordinator.  Schwartz is now a "senior defensive assistant" with the tacks.  Maybe if they hire Pederson, Pederson brings Schwartz back.  If that happens, I have to think they would bring in Derek Barnett from the Eagles as an edge rusher in free agency, so our edge rushers might be Allen, Hutchinson and Barnett.  However, if Schwartz is brought in, he typically runs a blitz heavy scheme, which may mean more man coverage, which undermines all of the progress Tyson Campbell made.

Dammit...why did we have to go after UM?!?

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Agreed. I'd double dip at ILB, OLB and WR and I would add at least 3 O-Linemen. Preferably an OT, Center and an OG/OT. That's nine picks. I'd also like to add a Safety, TE and a pass rushing DE/DT. 

We have 12 picks, so we enough to do it, but depending on what we do in free agency, some areas may have to be scaled back a bit. If we traded Myles Jack, we could add one more. If I don't get to draft a CB, it's o.k. Since we went to zone coverage, I'm satisfied enough with our current starters, but if a CB is tops on my board, during any pick, I'm taking one. It's just not a priority. 

I'm not expecting miracles in 2022. I'd like to see a marked improvement though. That is a must. The record doesn't really matter. If we were to get back to .500 in 2023 and pushed for a playoff spot in 2024, I'd be fine with that. As bad as we are, we should all know this is gonna be a slow process. 

I really liked Moses before he was injured. I'm hoping he gets back to 100%. I'm just not gonna bank on it. We could use a lot of help at ILB.

Let me add the caveat that double dipping at LB will depend on the new coach and what kind of scheme he will run.

Since most of the candidates we are kicking around are offensive guys with the idea of developing Trevor Lawrence, they may or may not have a preference.  It's then theoretically possible that Cullen and the remaining defensive coaches are retained and we keep the 3-4, in which caase, then I'd double dip at LB.  But it's also possibl the guys have their schemes and coordinators already in mind, and the new coach may decide to switch us back to a 4-3.  If that happens, then I double dip at edge rusher -Hutchinson and then someone else down the road.  I know Pederson ran a 4-3 with the Eagles. Jim Shcwartz was his defensive coordinator.  Schwartz is now a "senior defensive assistant" with the tacks.  Maybe if they hire Pederson, Pederson brings Schwartz back.  If that happens, I have to think they would bring in Derek Barnett from the Eagles as an edge rusher in free agency, so our edge rushers might be Allen, Hutchinson and Barnett.  However, if Schwartz is brought in, he typically runs a blitz heavy scheme, which may mean more man coverage, which undermines all of the progress Tyson Campbell made.

Dammit...why did we have to go after UM?!?

I certainly hope we don't go back to a 4-3. We brought in a ton of D-Linemen in the off season and very few would fit into a 4-3 scheme. We're finally starting to get decent on the defensive side of the football and changing the scheme now would feel like completely going back to square one. Change in scheme or not though, I'm double dipping at LB. Even if we switch back to a 4-3, which would benefit Myles Jack, he would be our only decent LB for that scheme. (I'm not counting on Moses until I actually see him play.)

Khan and Meyer really screwed us.

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That's going to be exciting to see him on the field. Who knows how what the jags have here with this guy. Jags need some good luck. Hidden gem?

That's what I'd be trying  to target in FA .  Get good proven Vets.

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That's going to be exciting to see him on the field. Who knows how what the jags have here with this guy. Jags need some good luck. Hidden gem?

That's what I'd be trying  to target in FA .  Get good proven Vets.

At this point, I'm not counting on getting good veterans in free agency at any position. We'll be lucky to land 2nd tier guys with all the dysfunction that has followed this team over the last few years. We'd probably end up with more guys like Joe Schobert and Damien Wilson and be right back where we are now.

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I'd go all out for Armstead and Adam's. Make both the highest paid at there position. If we can't get Armstead get Orlando Brown. Ryan Jensen is a FA, we could get him and move Linder back to guard. I remember a lot on this board wanted Jensen including me when he came out. One of those dominant guys at a small school we could of gotten late. Another horrible miss by Dave, I'm sure Gene would of hit on that one

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The TE from Colorado State looks like he would be a good fit for the team.

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Respect the game.  Play with a sense of urgency. 


1.)  Take care of the ball.  Win the turnover battle.

2.)  It's all about 3rd down.  Win on 3rd down to win the game.

3.) Playmakers make plays.  The only reason that you put your uniform on is to make plays. In order to EARN your paycheck, you must make plays.  

Learn from the great collapse of 2023.  

That's what I'd be trying  to target in FA .  Get good proven Vets.

At this point, I'm not counting on getting good veterans in free agency at any position. We'll be lucky to land 2nd tier guys with all the dysfunction that has followed this team over the last few years. We'd probably end up with more guys like Joe Schobert and Damien Wilson and be right back where we are now.

I think it all depends on the GM and coach we bring in

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DeVondre Campbell is a guy I would target on defense. He has been a beast this year for GB

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A healthy Mosses and Campbell at ILB would be a breath of fresh air and could help change this defense into the uper tier with Hutch or Thibs

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Of course if a TE is sitting there and he is the BPA at our pick I'm taking him but if Arnold and the big O is healthy I'm comfortable with our TE group. Middle of the league at the least imo

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I would go best available player with every single pick. Trevor Lawrence needs playmakers and game changers. Then we can open up the checkbook in FA.

First comes the free agency, including retaining some Jaguars free agents, but otherwise I agree, gotta stop thinking in terms of need when it comes to the draft, need focus is why the Jaguars have been garbage for so long. Have to just take the best player still on the board (without factoring in need at all) and worry about winning, not justifying Trevor's draft position chasing receivers that don't have the highest value at the pick number. If Trevor throws 20 TDs in 17 games next year and the team wins 12 games that's just fine. Tom brady took 8 seasons to throw for more than 30 TDs, same for Drew Brees

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I would go best available player with every single pick. Trevor Lawrence needs playmakers and game changers. Then we can open up the checkbook in FA.

First comes the free agency, including retaining some Jaguars free agents, but otherwise I agree, gotta stop thinking in terms of need when it comes to the draft, need focus is why the Jaguars have been garbage for so long. Have to just take the best player still on the board (without factoring in need at all) and worry about winning, not justifying Trevor's draft position chasing receivers that don't have the highest value at the pick number. If Trevor throws 20 TDs in 17 games next year and the team wins 12 games that's just fine. Tom brady took 8 seasons to throw for more than 30 TDs, same for Drew Brees

Agreed, that is one thing I liked about last year's draft even though their BAP weren't the same as mine.  Last year they didn't draft need.  They took Etienne at 25 when our best player is a RB, they took a corner when we just drafted one in the top 10 and just signed one to a big contract, and then took a LT when we just franchised one, and took a guy in Cisco who hadn't played in almost 2 years.   So they had the right draft approach, did they make the right picks remains to be seen.

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Dave was one of the biggest needs drafters I've ever seen

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First comes the free agency, including retaining some Jaguars free agents, but otherwise I agree, gotta stop thinking in terms of need when it comes to the draft, need focus is why the Jaguars have been garbage for so long. Have to just take the best player still on the board (without factoring in need at all) and worry about winning, not justifying Trevor's draft position chasing receivers that don't have the highest value at the pick number. If Trevor throws 20 TDs in 17 games next year and the team wins 12 games that's just fine. Tom brady took 8 seasons to throw for more than 30 TDs, same for Drew Brees

Agreed, that is one thing I liked about last year's draft even though their BAP weren't the same as mine.  Last year they didn't draft need.  They took Etienne at 25 when our best player is a RB, they took a corner when we just drafted one in the top 10 and just signed one to a big contract, and then took a LT when we just franchised one, and took a guy in Cisco who hadn't played in almost 2 years.   So they had the right draft approach, did they make the right picks remains to be seen.

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Dave was one of the biggest needs drafters I've ever seen

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First comes the free agency, including retaining some Jaguars free agents, but otherwise I agree, gotta stop thinking in terms of need when it comes to the draft, need focus is why the Jaguars have been garbage for so long. Have to just take the best player still on the board (without factoring in need at all) and worry about winning, not justifying Trevor's draft position chasing receivers that don't have the highest value at the pick number. If Trevor throws 20 TDs in 17 games next year and the team wins 12 games that's just fine. Tom brady took 8 seasons to throw for more than 30 TDs, same for Drew Brees

Agreed, that is one thing I liked about last year's draft even though their BAP weren't the same as mine.  Last year they didn't draft need.  They took Etienne at 25 when our best player is a RB, they took a corner when we just drafted one in the top 10 and just signed one to a big contract, and then took a LT when we just franchised one, and took a guy in Cisco who hadn't played in almost 2 years.   So they had the right draft approach, did they make the right picks remains to be seen.

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Dave was one of the biggest needs drafters I've ever seen

The Etienne pick was 100% a needs-based pick from Meyer. No doubt at all. 

He had zero clue what kind of back he had in Robinson and no intention of leaning on him.
Additionally, he was certain his offensive strategy would not work without someone in that hybrid Scatback/WR/Gadget role - so he drafted one straightaway.

I have high hopes the next regime can utilize Etienne to his potential and he could be a great player, but it was a needs-based pick all the way, and a pretty [BLEEP] stupid one at that when you consider what we could have gotten instead.

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Agreed, that is one thing I liked about last year's draft even though their BAP weren't the same as mine.  Last year they didn't draft need.  They took Etienne at 25 when our best player is a RB, they took a corner when we just drafted one in the top 10 and just signed one to a big contract, and then took a LT when we just franchised one, and took a guy in Cisco who hadn't played in almost 2 years.   So they had the right draft approach, did they make the right picks remains to be seen.

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Dave was one of the biggest needs drafters I've ever seen

The Etienne pick was 100% a needs-based pick from Meyer. No doubt at all. 

He had zero clue what kind of back he had in Robinson and no intention of leaning on him.
Additionally, he was certain his offensive strategy would not work without someone in that hybrid Scatback/WR/Gadget role - so he drafted one straightaway.

I have high hopes the next regime can utilize Etienne to his potential and he could be a great player, but it was a needs-based pick all the way, and a pretty [BLEEP] stupid one at that when you consider what we could have gotten instead.

Exactly. It was a bad pick that didn't fit bap/value, and given his comments after the pick about who he really wanted and the benefit of hindsight it was clearly a need reach.

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I'd go all out for Armstead and Adam's. Make both the highest paid at there position. If we can't get Armstead get Orlando Brown. Ryan Jensen is a FA, we could get him and move Linder back to guard. I remember a lot on this board wanted Jensen including me when he came out. One of those dominant guys at a small school we could of gotten late. Another horrible miss by Dave, I'm sure Gene would of hit on that one

You're going to be so disappointed when FA rolls around...

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I'd go all out for Armstead and Adam's.  Make both the highest paid at there position.  If we can't get Armstead get Orlando Brown.  Ryan Jensen is a FA, we could get him and move Linder back to guard.  I remember a lot on this board wanted Jensen including me when he came out.  One of those dominant guys at a small school we could of gotten late.  Another horrible miss by Dave, I'm sure Gene would of hit on that one

You're going to be so disappointed when FA rolls around...

I don't expect to get one of those its just what I would go for.

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Agreed, that is one thing I liked about last year's draft even though their BAP weren't the same as mine.  Last year they didn't draft need.  They took Etienne at 25 when our best player is a RB, they took a corner when we just drafted one in the top 10 and just signed one to a big contract, and then took a LT when we just franchised one, and took a guy in Cisco who hadn't played in almost 2 years.   So they had the right draft approach, did they make the right picks remains to be seen.

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Dave was one of the biggest needs drafters I've ever seen

The Etienne pick was 100% a needs-based pick from Meyer. No doubt at all. 

He had zero clue what kind of back he had in Robinson and no intention of leaning on him.
Additionally, he was certain his offensive strategy would not work without someone in that hybrid Scatback/WR/Gadget role - so he drafted one straightaway.

I have high hopes the next regime can utilize Etienne to his potential and he could be a great player, but it was a needs-based pick all the way, and a pretty [BLEEP] stupid one at that when you consider what we could have gotten instead.

So who do you think was his BPA on his board that he passed up for "need"?  I think Etieene was the top guy on their board.  They wanted Toney bit he was gone. Those are the top of guys Meyer likes the most.  Athletic, game breaking speed guys.  Balke mentioned multiple times that they were going to take the top guy on their board regardless of position, their drafted looked exactly like what he said he was going to do

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The playmakers and guys with game breaking speed are going to be the top players on Myers board

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The Etienne pick was 100% a needs-based pick from Meyer. No doubt at all. 

He had zero clue what kind of back he had in Robinson and no intention of leaning on him.
Additionally, he was certain his offensive strategy would not work without someone in that hybrid Scatback/WR/Gadget role - so he drafted one straightaway.

I have high hopes the next regime can utilize Etienne to his potential and he could be a great player, but it was a needs-based pick all the way, and a pretty [BLEEP] stupid one at that when you consider what we could have gotten instead.

So who do you think was his BPA on his board that he passed up for "need"?  I think Etieene was the top guy on their board.  They wanted Toney bit he was gone. Those are the top of guys Meyer likes the most.  Athletic, game breaking speed guys.  Balke mentioned multiple times that they were going to take the top guy on their board regardless of position, their drafted looked exactly like what he said he was going to do

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The playmakers and guys with game breaking speed are going to be the top players on Myers board

I don't doubt they had him at the top of their board. That just means they didn't rank players based just on ability, they clearly ranked their board based on their perceived needs.

No personnel guy EVER comes out and says, "yeah, this other guy is more talented, but we thought what or team really needs is someone playing position X, even though they're notably a worse player."

Usually you can only definitively say someone was drafting based on need after evaluating a lot of their moves, but Urban literally came out and said he was picking guys based on a position he thought he needed. Call it the "Percy Harvin position," if you like.

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The Etienne pick was 100% a needs-based pick from Meyer. No doubt at all. 

He had zero clue what kind of back he had in Robinson and no intention of leaning on him.
Additionally, he was certain his offensive strategy would not work without someone in that hybrid Scatback/WR/Gadget role - so he drafted one straightaway.

I have high hopes the next regime can utilize Etienne to his potential and he could be a great player, but it was a needs-based pick all the way, and a pretty [BLEEP] stupid one at that when you consider what we could have gotten instead.

So who do you think was his BPA on his board that he passed up for "need"?  I think Etieene was the top guy on their board.  They wanted Toney bit he was gone. Those are the top of guys Meyer likes the most.  Athletic, game breaking speed guys.  Balke mentioned multiple times that they were going to take the top guy on their board regardless of position, their drafted looked exactly like what he said he was going to do

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The playmakers and guys with game breaking speed are going to be the top players on Myers board

Meyer took his perceived need. Period.

 I couldn't give less of a damn what that idiot's board looked like or what he likes the most. 
If you think trying to explain how he overvalues traits isn't just as bad as reaching for need, I'm at a loss to help you see this clearly. 

And if you believe a word out of Baalke's mouth when Meyer was running the show, that's on you as well.

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This is why BAP is a myth.

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