No, it would still be a bad pick, and it's unlikely either guy comes back to be 100% from their injury.

Just draft another one in the 4th round.

Absolutely not. Do not waste a valuable draft pick on a RB. There has already been a ton of talented underclassmen RB's who have declared for the draft. So many in fact, that only about 1/3 of them may get drafted. There will be many good RB's to pick from once the draft ends and we start to sign UDFA's. You don't waste picks on RB's when our O-Line is in such flux. RB's are only as good as their O-Line and currently, our O-Line keeps getting Robinson hurt. Once we figure out the O-Line, then we'll worry about the RB situation.

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Just draft another one in the 4th round.

Absolutely not. Do not waste a valuable draft pick on a RB. There has already been a ton of talented underclassmen RB's who have declared for the draft. So many in fact, that only about 1/3 of them may get drafted. There will be many good RB's to pick from once the draft ends and we start to sign UDFA's. You don't waste picks on RB's when our O-Line is in such flux. RB's are only as good as their O-Line and currently, our O-Line keeps getting Robinson hurt. Once we figure out the O-Line, then we'll worry about the RB situation.

If that were the case James Robinson would have never been good. But you're right we do need to focus on the O line and not RB.

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Absolutely not. Do not waste a valuable draft pick on a RB. There has already been a ton of talented underclassmen RB's who have declared for the draft. So many in fact, that only about 1/3 of them may get drafted. There will be many good RB's to pick from once the draft ends and we start to sign UDFA's. You don't waste picks on RB's when our O-Line is in such flux. RB's are only as good as their O-Line and currently, our O-Line keeps getting Robinson hurt. Once we figure out the O-Line, then we'll worry about the RB situation.

If that were the case James Robinson would have never been good. But you're right we do need to focus on the O line and not RB.

Imagine how good he could have been with a decent O-Line.

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If that were the case James Robinson would have never been good. But you're right we do need to focus on the O line and not RB.

Imagine how good he could have been with a decent O-Line.

I agree the O-line needs to be retrenched like KC did with its line. Mahomes had all day to throw against the Steelers. 

Robinson is a feel good story, but I think he had already peaked before his injury. His speed was never good. I don’t know why he was being played extensively with the team clearly out of the playoffs.

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"I am only an average man, but by George, I work harder at it than the average man." - Teddy Roosevelt

Imagine how good he could have been with a decent O-Line.

I agree the O-line needs to be retrenched like KC did with its line. Mahomes had all day to throw against the Steelers. 

Robinson is a feel good story, but I think he had already peaked before his injury. His speed was never good. I don’t know why he was being played extensively with the team clearly out of the playoffs.

I've seen you mention this in multiple threads now. Teams just don't bench all of their good players when they're out of the playoff race. Idk where you're getting this from.

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It’s being passed around on Twitter but apparently Marvin scored on 2nd and goal at the end of the game…..

https://twitter.com/e_dilla/status/14754...02882?s=21

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It’s being passed around on Twitter but apparently Marvin scored on 2nd and goal at the end of the game…..

https://twitter.com/e_dilla/status/14754...02882?s=21

The NFL did us a favor over the long term, winning that game would have meant nothing except lower draft placement.

I saw all I needed to know that Trevor just needs better players and coaching around him and he'll succeed.

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It’s being passed around on Twitter but apparently Marvin scored on 2nd and goal at the end of the game…..

https://twitter.com/e_dilla/status/14754...02882?s=21

The NFL did us a favor over the long term, winning that game would have meant nothing except lower draft placement.

I saw all I needed to know that Trevor just needs better players and coaching around him and he'll succeed.

Absolutely.

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3.  Sucks to see what happened with James Robinson.  Because it happened so late in the year, I could see him missing the first part of next year if it is a torn achilles.  Actually, I'm wondering what kind of turf they had up there.  Was it the same they had in New Orleans this preseason?  Etienne hurt his Lisfranc on a no contact type injury.  Thing is, an achilles is one of those injuries that can ruin a guy's career.  I hope he fully recovers.

Kind of ironic that Robinson would be fully healthy and could have pursued a lavish contract if Urban was still here.  Sometimes being in the dog house is a good thing

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This was a game I was looking forward to because it was the first matchup between TL and Wilson.  Even though the game was meaningless in terms of playoff relevance, it was a game I wanted to win. 

My thoughts

1.  Although it wasn't quite as embarrassing a performance as the 4th and 21 or so given up to the Raiders' punter back during the Gud Bradley era, I thought the run defense's performance was nothing to be proud of, that's for damn sure.  For Zach Wilson to have a freaking 53 yard TD run was embarrassing.  What the hell was Rudy Ford doing?!?  Wilson also made Smoot look foolish on another run with a pump fake.  Compounding things, the Jaguars allowed th jets RB to rush for over 100 yards.  I understand two Jaguars' LBs were out, but the Jets were missing some receivers and offensive linemen.  There was no reason to give up that much on the ground to the Jets...or anyone.  Isn't that why we signed all of the tackles this past offseason?!?  Then to top it off, they let an offensive linemn get wide [BLEEP] open and score a TD.

The poor run D screamed of lacking LB play. The suddenness of replacement also prevented a lot of cohesion among the group. Jack and Allen are two of our better and faster players. Missing one would have posed a challenge for the D to perform. Missing both made the task insurmountable. At one point, though, I started to wonder if it was some AFCe scheme that required OCs to use their QB as a rusher, as the Bills continually are led by Allen in their rushing stats as well. That 53 run was embarrassing for a number of defenders, but Carter seemed to nickel and dime us to death, and that was our undoing.

2.  Not to be outdone in the embarrassment department, the special teams allowed another kickoff return for a TD in back to back weeks.  It's the 4th TD they have given up this year.  Special teams was supposed to be a source of pride under Urban Meyer.  This just illustrates how complete his failure was/is.  The fake punt to start the game does not offset the ineptitude of the kick coverage teams.

Covid causing so much turnover definitely was a factor here. Just wish Agnew hadn't gotten hurt, because he'd likely be running all over special teams units at this stage of the season.

3.  Sucks to see what happened with James Robinson.  Because it happened so late in the year, I could see him missing the first part of next year if it is a torn achilles.  Actually, I'm wondering what kind of turf they had up there.  Was it the same they had in New Orleans this preseason?  Etienne hurt his Lisfranc on a no contact type injury.  Thing is, an achilles is one of those injuries that can ruin a guy's career.  I hope he fully recovers.

Hey Day was a lot older when he tore his, and was never the same. Here's hoping that youth serves James well. Glad that Ogbunwale appeared to handle the load without any big letdowns, my fear was that ballhandling might suffer as we suddenly had to rely on our third-string back. I know we just signed Rock, but wondering whether Ozigbo will see any action. He appeared to play well in preseason, and was (to me) a surprising cut when the final 53 were announced. Not sure if he or Cottrell offer more as a secondary option.

6.  What in the hell was that handoff in that last two minute drill?!?  Awful playcall.

I hated that call too, I don't know if they saw some vulnerability in the D not lining up quickly and wanted to try for a big gain, but with no times out that was a huge risk to take, even if it netted 10 yards. The spike on 3rd and goal was almost as bad. They need to have a play or two as a go-to play for short-notice calls, I'd have rather wasted two or three seconds on a snap and throw away than leave us with a 4th and game to go and scrambling to find playcalls and personnel to make it work in hurried fashion. In the end, that bit us in the rear.

9.  Bottom line:  This game showed what can happen if TL gets time.  But he still needs new coaches and a better surrounding cast.  That better surrounding cast isn't going to come unless Baalke is replaced.  This team is a long long long way off.

I wasn't sure if that was due to their lacking pass rush, better blocking, or what, but he had less pressure in his face immediately after the snap. Good to see that when he has some time, he can get some good throws out. If that doesn't tell the next front office that we need to prioritize pass blockers, I don't know what will.

Thanks for the thoughts, Bullseye. Great insight as usual.

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Both ETN and Robinson will be coming off of injuries that are not favorable for RBs. Will be something to watch going forward.

Wanted that win at the end for Trevor, but I'm still good with guaranteeing us a top 2 draft pick.

A lot of us have been screaming for Cisco since day 1. He finally gets his chance (was splitting every 2 series with Thomas) and he flashed all over the field. Mind blowing that it took this long for him to get on the field and only because of an injury.

Special Teams still sucks.

IIRC I did notice that he was still lining up 20-odd yards off the LOS, so maybe it's just a scheme thing for us.

One impression I had in this game was that both coaches understood that each team was playing for pride, getting game film, and entertaining fans. Neither team was a world beater, but that game was fun from start to finish. Lots of risk taking throughout, whether it was going for it on multiple first downs, fake kicks, or digging deep in the playbook, I had a great time even if it ended with a loss.

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In regards to Rudy Ford, he clearly thought Wilson was going out of bounds, so he slowed up in order to not hit him out of bounds and get a 15 yard penalty.  Wilson then turned up-field.  Mental mistakes are very common with this team.  That's a sign of bad coaching.

As for special teams and the kick return, I'm on record last off-season saying that the Jaguars should have retained their special teams coach.

Finally, speaking one more time of bad coaching, I agree about the hand off during the 2 minute drill.  It wasn't even third or fourth down.  It was first down and 10 and you are down to your 4th string running back.  The only thing I can guess is that they were trying the element of surprise.  Being stupid can be unpredictable, but it's still stupid.

You can wrap up on a guy and not draw a foul. The flags only come if you're launching yourself as a human missile toward an opponent on their way to the sideline or wait until they are well out of bounds before taking them down.

Until there's a whistle, treat him as a runner.

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In regards to Rudy Ford, he clearly thought Wilson was going out of bounds, so he slowed up in order to not hit him out of bounds and get a 15 yard penalty.  Wilson then turned up-field.  Mental mistakes are very common with this team.  That's a sign of bad coaching.

As for special teams and the kick return, I'm on record last off-season saying that the Jaguars should have retained their special teams coach.

Finally, speaking one more time of bad coaching, I agree about the hand off during the 2 minute drill.  It wasn't even third or fourth down.  It was first down and 10 and you are down to your 4th string running back.  The only thing I can guess is that they were trying the element of surprise.  Being stupid can be unpredictable, but it's still stupid.

The amount of times I've thought why don't players ever utilize that and fake going out.. Wilsons run today was the first time I've seen it utilized by a QB.

Because, like Pickett in the ACCCG, you fake that play, and some DE lights you up to the point where you forget your name every time someone uses the microwave.

If you are known as a player who toughs out a run, or fakes a knee or sideline, the refs may be less likely to blow a play dead and you end up subjected to some bad hits. ZWilson got away with it yesterday. You might debate that once he crosses the LOS, he's a runner, and typical QB protections go out the window, and Ford should have blasted him whether he was running to the boundary or not.

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It’s being passed around on Twitter but apparently Marvin scored on 2nd and goal at the end of the game…..

https://twitter.com/e_dilla/status/14754...02882?s=21

It was a score.

The win was meaningless, but at least it would have given Trevor the "coming out" drive he deserved, and we don't have to listen to how Wilson supposedly outdueled him yesterday 

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Wait.. You're supposed to take DE first then QB. Garret-Mayfield

Duh

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The amount of times I've thought why don't players ever utilize that and fake going out.. Wilsons run today was the first time I've seen it utilized by a QB.

I will say that it has always been a pet peeve of mine when quarterback basically do the same concept on slides.  I support a quarterback giving themselves up, but I think they should do it early.  Some quarterbacks clearly wait until the last second to slide with the hope that the defender, who is running full speed and can't stop on a dime, doesn't have the reflexes to avoid a hit.  Instant 15 yards for the offense.  I wish the rule would give the benefit of the doubt to the defender and have it only called if it is flagrant.

I'd argue that defenders should be looking at what they are about to hit. Late slide or not, if you are launching yourself at a player likely to initiate a slide, or to tuck to absorb contact, you're going to get flagged for late hit or helmet to helmet hit.

I don't think many QB are happy to take a 15 yard flag in exchange for the hits they usually take to get there. If any of them are deploying that strategy to achieve their success, their career won't last long or they won't remember it soon after they retire.

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That pass to Jones should have been a pick 6. No reason to claim victory for that terrible throw

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To expand, that would be 4th round rookie that many of us wanted Michael Carter Jr. If we didn't have the Meyer tire fire going on we might have wound up with him and not blown a 1st rounder on a RB.

If Robinson is never the same and Etienne comes back 100% it might actually be a good pick.

I can't see how you can say that after we just gave up over 100 yards to a guy taken 3 rounds later.
I don't like having to potentially end a young player's career to justify the selection of another player at the same position.

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Chaisson pulled up very early during Wilson’s run as well. He should of been benched for that. He brings nothing to this team.

....he attempted to chop the ball out at the 3-ish yard line, so at least he remained in pursuit?

There were a number of guys that got clowned on that run.

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So you can’t answer my question can you? Probably because you know that it would take hundreds of picks before the first RB is taken.

The RB position may be the least valuable position in football because it’s easily replaced.

Here's a list of 48 RBs selected in the 1st round over a 20 year span. 
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ranki...-the-list/

A quick skim reveals about 12 of them worthy of a 1st round selection in my estimation. 

In other words, for every one Ladanian Tomlinson landed in the first round, there are three Knowshon Moreno's.  

That's a bad gamble in my book.

I'd also venture that there's a lot bigger gap from most of the top 5-ish pick RB and the 20-32 pick RBs. Flop rate likely to be way higher for those later picks.
I'm not looking for Etienne to be LT, Faulk, Fred Taylor, or any of the best all-around RB you could name. But, when guys like Aaron Jones, Alvin Kamara, and such are doing just as well as the top pick guys, I'm going to have a hard time justifying taking anyone with premium picks.

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That pass to Jones should have been a pick 6. No reason to claim victory for that terrible throw

Should have, would have only counts in hand grenades. How did the ball end up in Jones hands? Not because of a dropped "tip" by the defender, but Trevor zipped it in there.

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That pass to Jones should have been a pick 6. No reason to claim victory for that terrible throw

Should have, would have only counts in hand grenades. How did the ball end up in Jones hands? Not because of a dropped "tip" by the defender, but Trevor zipped it in there.

It is funny. A QB with a lesser arm either gets it picked, or maybe doesn't try the pass. When Aaron Rodgers throws a pass that goes right through someone else's arms for a TD does everyone discount it, or is it just that Aaron Rodgers has a great arm and fit it in?

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It will always be a bad pick no matter how ETN turns out.

Exactly just because YOU dont like it, it will always be a bad pick. Smh

I think the argument is more that the position of the selection is what makes the pick poop.

The argument "If he turns out to be Kamara, it's a good pick" is flawed because Kamara wasn't taken anywhere near the first round. If he turns out to be Kamara, we spent a first rounder on fourth-round talent!
It's the same argument why Fournette at four was a bad pick, why Bryan Anger in the third was a bad pick, and so many other examples argued here over the years. What if JRob was our Kamara? Did the Saints bother wasting another pick on an RB just because their current RB wasn't a first rounder? Of course not.

We had so many other holes to fill that throwing a premium pick at a role player wasn't necessary. The guy is going to HAVE to be on the level of the league's elite RB to make it seem worth the value we gave up to get him.

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So you can’t answer my question can you? Probably because you know that it would take hundreds of picks before the first RB is taken.

The RB position may be the least valuable position in football because it’s easily replaced.

I was curious, so I looked it up.  The facts do not support you.  If you look at the top 10 rushers in the NFL as of the time of this writing, 10 out of 10 were drafted in the top 100.  The lowest drafted went at #66 overall.  He was the only third round pick to make the list and that's a very early third rounder.  9 out of the top 10 rushers in NFL were either first or second round picks.  The good running backs do tend to go early.

but most of those guys went in the second and third rounds, excepting of course Elliott (4), Harris(24). I looked it up, too.  Here's the draft selection, in order for the top rushers: 41, 48, 35, 41, 24, 45, 4, 66, 87, 35.

So 8 of 10 of the top rushers went after where Etienne was picked. We robbed ourselves of value when we made that pick. For the sake of our team's future the hope has to be that he recovers and can play at high level for many years. Because, as we can see, we gave up much to bring him on board. If he does not return to form, it will have set us back not only for having to replace his spot, but in the other players we passed on to make his selection.

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