If we draft Evan Neal, he'll be a RT and I'll be done with the Jags.

You don't think Evan Neal could beat out Cam Robinson at the left tackle spot? Maybe Cam plays right tackle?

I don't think he could beat out Robinson or Little for the LT position. When I see Neal, I see a decent RT only. Nothing special and certainly not an elite NFL LT.

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You don't tag Cam Robinson because he's not anywhere near the cap money it would take, and that's why the Jags drafted Walker Little for last year. Spend money where we need it most - a premiere TE like Gisecki, re-sign DJ Chark for about $10- M a year,, draft BAP in the early rounds and fill holes in the later rounds.

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You don't think Evan Neal could beat out Cam Robinson at the left tackle spot? Maybe Cam plays right tackle?

I don't think he could beat out Robinson or Little for the LT position. When I see Neal, I see a decent RT only. Nothing special and certainly not an elite NFL LT.

I believe Ikem Ekwonu is the best LT in the draft.

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You don't tag Cam Robinson because he's not anywhere near the cap money it would take, and that's why the Jags drafted Walker Little for last year. Spend money where we need it most - a premiere TE like Gisecki, re-sign DJ Chark for about $10- M a year,, draft BAP in the early rounds and fill holes in the later rounds.

There's virtually no way we can spend the money it would take to reach the cap. Tagging Cam will barely dent our cap space. Letting him walk just to use the #1 pick on his replacement would be so much worse than just using a chunk of that cap space on Cam and letting a later pick develop for a year.

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I don't think he could beat out Robinson or Little for the LT position. When I see Neal, I see a decent RT only. Nothing special and certainly not an elite NFL LT.

I believe Ikem Ekwonu is the best LT in the draft.

I see Ekwonu as the best OG in the draft.

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This team looks like the place veteran players go to ruin their career. Our team is a mess! Why would anyone want to come here if they had other options? We're certainly not winning anytime soon, our reputation around the league for how we deal with players is about as low as it can get and our owner makes the same staffing mistakes over and over. It's like running a run down, road side diner that keeps getting shut down by the health department and expecting to hire a 5 star chef. It isn't gonna happen. Come back to reality.

People said the same thing the year we got Bouye, Campbell, and Church.  Those veterans had their beat seasons here.  This team isn't a mess, the coaching and GM is.  We are about to hire a new coach and still a  good chance Baalke will be gone.  Our defense is already decent and good be even better with Thibs or Hutch and Trev will be going into his 2nd year and his last game showed what he can do.  If we have another good draft and get Trev a little better oline help and WR help this team could be much better nest year.  Not to mention money talks and we have more cap than any team in the league.

Not quite true - we do not have more cap space than any other team in 2022, the Dolphins do.  But we're a close 2nd in cap space, even with a ton of dead money from bad draft picks and free agent signings.  

The Jags also can jettison some underperforming players like Roy-Robertson Harris, Chris Manhertz, etc. to free up additional cap space if they want to bring back DJ Chark AND Allen Robinson or something.

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You don't tag Cam Robinson because he's not anywhere near the cap money it would take, and that's why the Jags drafted Walker Little for last year.  Spend money where we need it most - a premiere TE like Gisecki, re-sign DJ Chark for about $10- M a year,, draft BAP in the early rounds and fill holes in the later rounds.

There's virtually no way we can spend the money it would take to reach the cap. Tagging Cam will barely dent our cap space. Letting him walk just to use the #1 pick on his replacement would be so much worse than just using a chunk of that cap space on Cam and letting a later pick develop for a year.

Walker Little is already on the roster and was drafted to replace Cam, so using the #1 overall pick on Neal would be a huge waste.  Neal isn't an elite LT prospect anyway.  You take one of the two DE's with the 1st pick, or you trade back and recoup value.  There are better ways to spend the cap space to help the offense.  If Davonte Adams doesn't get tagged, the Jags could make him the highest-paid WR in the NFL.  Plus they could still afford to bring back DJ Chark and sign some mid-tier players and mid-round picks to compete at RT and G.  

There should be multiple TE's and WR's to choose from in FA, so you could always go O-line in the 2nd and/or 3rd round and still end up better than this current lineup.

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What’s the 2nd option? Unless we trade back no way in heck am i drafting Neal.

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[img]blob:https://www.duvalpride.com/1a8a2498-9833-4b7d-8cc7-5e45aa36d9f6[/img][img=648x560]blob:https://www.duvalpride.com/cfd7a344-8206-4fed-a4c4-6536e150b1a7[/img]

People said the same thing the year we got Bouye, Campbell, and Church.  Those veterans had their beat seasons here.  This team isn't a mess, the coaching and GM is.  We are about to hire a new coach and still a  good chance Baalke will be gone.  Our defense is already decent and good be even better with Thibs or Hutch and Trev will be going into his 2nd year and his last game showed what he can do.  If we have another good draft and get Trev a little better oline help and WR help this team could be much better nest year.  Not to mention money talks and we have more cap than any team in the league.

Not quite true - we do not have more cap space than any other team in 2022, the Dolphins do.  But we're a close 2nd in cap space, even with a ton of dead money from bad draft picks and free agent signings.  

The Jags also can jettison some underperforming players like Roy-Robertson Harris, Chris Manhertz, etc. to free up additional cap space if they want to bring back DJ Chark AND Allen Robinson or something.

I actually think you are wrong too, it looks like we are 3rd but the point remains the same

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2022/

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Walker Little is your best option at left tackle right now. Cam Robinson is a physical player who is making over twice the money that he would garner on the open market. If we had a competent general manager that understood proper asset management; then Cam would not be on the team at his cap number that he had last year let alone tagging him again. Unfortunately we have Trent Baalke as our GM a man who most of the players, coaches and front office staff can not stand and do not want to deal with. I would invest a fairly significant asset (draft capital or cap space) into getting a younger and more durable player to man the center position.

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Respect the game.  Play with a sense of urgency. 


1.)  Take care of the ball.  Win the turnover battle.

2.)  It's all about 3rd down.  Win on 3rd down to win the game.

3.) Playmakers make plays.  The only reason that you put your uniform on is to make plays. In order to EARN your paycheck, you must make plays.  

Learn from the great collapse of 2023.  

one good thing about the GM NOT changing is I think he will realize what we have in Little already, since he drafted him. Obviously this does not outweigh the bad, but is a small silver lining perhaps.

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There's virtually no way we can spend the money it would take to reach the cap. Tagging Cam will barely dent our cap space. Letting him walk just to use the #1 pick on his replacement would be so much worse than just using a chunk of that cap space on Cam and letting a later pick develop for a year.

Walker Little is already on the roster and was drafted to replace Cam, so using the #1 overall pick on Neal would be a huge waste.  Neal isn't an elite LT prospect anyway.  You take one of the two DE's with the 1st pick, or you trade back and recoup value.  There are better ways to spend the cap space to help the offense.  If Davonte Adams doesn't get tagged, the Jags could make him the highest-paid WR in the NFL.  Plus they could still afford to bring back DJ Chark and sign some mid-tier players and mid-round picks to compete at RT and G.  

There should be multiple TE's and WR's to choose from in FA, so you could always go O-line in the 2nd and/or 3rd round and still end up better than this current lineup.

Davante will get tagged at minimum, and if by some miracle he doesn't 30 other teams would also be willing to make him the highest paid WR in the NFL. He would choose damn near all of them over us. That's what I mean by it being nearly impossible for us to spend to the cap.

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Not quite true - we do not have more cap space than any other team in 2022, the Dolphins do.  But we're a close 2nd in cap space, even with a ton of dead money from bad draft picks and free agent signings.  

The Jags also can jettison some underperforming players like Roy-Robertson Harris, Chris Manhertz, etc. to free up additional cap space if they want to bring back DJ Chark AND Allen Robinson or something.

I actually think you are wrong too, it looks like we are 3rd but the point remains the same

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2022/

2nd according to https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/

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Walker Little is your best option at left tackle right now. Cam Robinson is a physical player who is making over twice the money that he would garner on the open market. If we had a competent general manager that understood proper asset management; then Cam would not be on the team at his cap number that he had last year let alone tagging him again. Unfortunately we have Trent Baalke as our GM a man who most of the players, coaches and front office staff can not stand and do not want to deal with. I would invest a fairly significant asset (draft capital or cap space) into getting a younger and more durable player to man the center position.

Agree.  Linder is a good center, but he can't stay healthy.  Not worth his $10M salary cap hit when he misses half the games each year.

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Walker Little is your best option at left tackle right now. Cam Robinson is a physical player who is making over twice the money that he would garner on the open market. If we had a competent general manager that understood proper asset management; then Cam would not be on the team at his cap number that he had last year let alone tagging him again. Unfortunately we have Trent Baalke as our GM a man who most of the players, coaches and front office staff can not stand and do not want to deal with. I would invest a fairly significant asset (draft capital or cap space) into getting a younger and more durable player to man the center position.

The majority opinion on this board seems to be that we need to keep Cam. Just like you I disagree but I see plenty of people arguing for another tag etc. I don't understand it because you either get a new LT in FA if you don't like Little or you sign a new RT in FA(or draft one with pick 1) if you don't like Taylor.

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What changes this year? Baalke is still the GM.

First, we don't know for sure Baalke will be retained.  Second, Meyer is gone and he was ultimately in charge of personnel, not Baalke.  It may have been his strategy.  Third, GM's often take a different approach in year 2 of a rebuild versus year 1 of a rebuild.

They did say that they weren't looking to sign big dollar free agents last year.  Unfortunately, this still feels like we're in year 1 of the rebuild.

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The majority opinion on this board seems to be that we need to keep Cam. Just like you I disagree but I see plenty of people arguing for another tag etc. I don't understand it because you either get a new LT in FA if you don't like Little or you sign a new RT in FA(or draft one with pick 1) if you don't like Taylor.

So you want to give him a big, long term deal that whose AAV will be almost as high as the franchise tag? Cause that's what Cam is going to get offered from someone if we don't tag him. Those are the only two options if you want to keep him.

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First, we don't know for sure Baalke will be retained.  Second, Meyer is gone and he was ultimately in charge of personnel, not Baalke.  It may have been his strategy.  Third, GM's often take a different approach in year 2 of a rebuild versus year 1 of a rebuild.

Your source?

Didn't Meyer say he didn't watch the NFL? he didn't even know this team. Was he the one who decided against going for Trent Williams, Hendrickson, Hunter Henry? was he the one who decided the O-line was fine and he didn't need to upgrade it? 
If Baalke did none of that, still why should we keep him then? Kinda funny how Baalke was known to draft players who had injury problems/major injuries and we ended up drafting Little and Cisco.

Juts amazing how this fan base is always making stupid excuses for garbage GMs.

Caldwell never made a mistake while being on the Jags, it was all Coughlin's fault.
Now Baalke is innocent and every bad move was/is on Meyer.

You obviously have a reading comprehension problem.  It was being argued that there was no chance the Jaguars would sign a top tier free agent this year.  I offered three possible reasons why that might not be true.  You completely ignore two of my reasons and pretend like I didn't even say them.  As for the one you did focus on, it's obvious that you lack understanding of the word "may", so I'll help you out.  If you google the definition of "may", it says:

verb:  expressing possibility

Byron Leftwich may be the Jaguars next head coach.  Nathaniel Hackett may be the next head coach.  Baalke may have developed last year's free agency strategy.  Urban Meyer may have developed last year's free agency strategy.  All of these statements can be said at the same time with no source being needed as they are just expressing possibilities.  If you are arguing it is impossible that Meyer developed the free agency strategy, then YOU are the one who should provide a source as that is a statement of fact.

You also seem to have difficulty comprehending that saying that Baalke might sign top tier free agents IS NOT the same thing as supporting Baalke as GM.  Let me be clear:  I DON'T!!!!!  I didn't like when he was initially hired two years ago.  I didn't like when he was retained last year.  I didn't like that he wasn't fired along with Meyer.  I even supported the clown movement in hopes that it might put pressure on Khan to fire Balke.  I'm very clearly on record on all of these points and never suggested anything otherwise in my message. 

You then somehow out of nowhere jump to Caldwell without having any basis for your accusations.  Once again, you are just flat out wrong.  I was strongly opposed to retaining Caldwell after his fourth season.  I was 100% opposed to retaining him in 2020.  Again, I'm very clearly on record here and never suggested otherwise.    

Try working on your reading comprehension and stop trying to put words in my mouth for things I clearly didn't say.

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What changes this year? Baalke is still the GM.

First, we don't know for sure Baalke will be retained.  Second, Meyer is gone and he was ultimately in charge of personnel, not Baalke.  It may have been his strategy.  Third, GM's often take a different approach in year 2 of a rebuild versus year 1 of a rebuild.

Your source?

Didn't Meyer say he didn't watch the NFL? he didn't even know this team. Was he the one who decided against going for Trent Williams, Hendrickson, Hunter Henry? was he the one who decided the O-line was fine and he didn't need to upgrade it? 
If Baalke did none of that, still why should we keep him then? Kinda funny how Baalke was known to draft players who had injury problems/major injuries and we ended up drafting Little and Cisco.

Juts amazing how this fan base is always making stupid excuses for garbage GMs.

Caldwell never made a mistake while being on the Jags, it was all Coughlin's fault.
Now Baalke is innocent and every bad move was/is on Meyer.

You obviously have a reading comprehension problem.  It was being argued that there was no chance the Jaguars would sign a top tier free agent this year.  I offered three possible reasons why that might not be true.  You completely ignore two of my reasons and pretend like I didn't even say them.  As for the one you did focus on, it's obvious that you lack understanding of the word "may", so I'll help you out.  If you google the definition of "may", it says:

verb:  expressing possibility

Byron Leftwich may be the Jaguars next head coach.  Nathaniel Hackett may be the next head coach.  Baalke may have developed last year's free agency strategy.  Urban Meyer may have developed last year's free agency strategy.  All of these statements can be said at the same time with no source being needed as they are just expressing possibilities.  If you are arguing it is impossible that Meyer developed the free agency strategy, then YOU are the one who should provide a source as that is a statement of fact.

You also seem to have difficulty comprehending that saying that Baalke might sign top tier free agents IS NOT the same thing as supporting Baalke as GM.  Let me be clear:  I DON'T!!!!!  I didn't like when he was initially hired two years ago.  I didn't like when he was retained last year.  I didn't like that he wasn't fired along with Meyer.  I even supported the clown movement in hopes that it might put pressure on Khan to fire Balke.  I'm very clearly on record on all of these points and never suggested anything otherwise in my message. 

You then somehow out of nowhere jump to Caldwell without having any basis for your accusations.  Once again, you are just flat out wrong.  I was strongly opposed to retaining Caldwell after his fourth season.  I was 100% opposed to retaining him in 2020.  Again, I'm very clearly on record here and never suggested otherwise.    

Try working on your reading comprehension and stop trying to put words in my mouth for things I clearly didn't say.

So according to you, I said that YOU were the one making excuses for Caldwell? haha good thing I am the one with reading comprehension problems.

"Just amazing how this fan base is always making stupid excuses for garbage GMs."

Clearly you are the whole fan base.

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"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

First, we don't know for sure Baalke will be retained.  Second, Meyer is gone and he was ultimately in charge of personnel, not Baalke.  It may have been his strategy.  Third, GM's often take a different approach in year 2 of a rebuild versus year 1 of a rebuild.

I'd add to this by saying that if a new HC is added and Baalke is retained, that new HC may again have personnel control with Baalke acting as a facilitator. 

Not that I want any of these scenarios involving Baalke in Duval, just trying to prepare myself for how it might go down and seek a glimmer of hope.

I would also add that it's also still possible that the Jaguars hire a "VP of Football Operations" to effectively be the GM with Baalke effectively just being an assistant.  I agree that I would rather Baalke completely gone, but the point is that there are still a lot of unknowns and possibilities.  Just because the Jaguars didn't target top tier free agents last year doesn't mean that they won't this year.

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  Just because the Jaguars didn't target top tier free agents last year doesn't mean that they won't this year.

We did target them, we just didn't make competitive offers.

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