James Harris The GM before Gene smith is #1 and its not even close and if your not old enough to remember him and his thoughts about who he wanted on the team and who he passed up in the draft look it up

I am old enough to remember Shack Harris, and your analysis of his tenure is way off.

First off, under Harris, the Jaguars rebounded from the aftermath of TCs first collapse and had 4 seasons of .500 or better between 2004 and 2007, including three (3) winning seasons and two playoff seasons.  The record reflects this is only the second period of any sustained success in team history.   Gene Smith did not come close to matching this and failed to notch even one winning and/or playoff season by the end of his tenure.

Shack Harris missed on numerous first round picks in his tenure including Reggie Williams, Matt Jones and the disastrous 2008 draft that featured a trade up for Derrick Harvey.  However, from the second round on, his drafts far eclipsed Gene Smith's.  Shack drafted Pro Bowlers like Rashean Mathis, Greg Jones, and Maurice Jones Drew, and other solid contributions like Daryl Smith and Vince Manuwai.  Gene Smith never drafted any Pro Bowl caliber players.  In fact, throughout Smith's tenure (2009-2012)the best players on the roster remained players drafted by Shack Harris.

Shack Harris was wrongly accused of advancisome sort of racist agenda because he had 3 black QBs on the roster under his watch.  Never mind the fact two of those QBs (David Garrard and Quinn Gray) were brought to the team by his white GM predecessor Tom Coughlin.  There was also consternation about Shack Harris' decision to bypass Brady Quinn in the 2007 draft, with many citing that action as proof of some sort of racist agenda at the QB position.

Having the benefit of more than a decade of hindsight and the entirety of the relevant players at our disposal, it's easy to see Harris' decision to pass on Brady Quinn was unquestionably the right thing to do.  Brady Quinn was drafted 22nd overall by the Cleveland Browns after the Jaguars passed him twice after trading back from around 17th overall.  Quinn played a total of four seasons, had 20 starts and compiled a 4-16 record.  He never threw more than 8 TDs in a season and threw all of 12 in his entire career, five (5) less than the number of INTs he threw.   

At the time, the Jaguars had 3 QBs on the roster: Byron Leftwich, David Garrard, and Quinn Gray.  Leftwich had 44 starts for the Jaguars and compiled a 24-20 record.  He finished his Jaguars playing career 51-36 TD-INT ratio.  By every objective measure, Leftwich was the superior player to Brady Quinn.  If Leftwich's performance clearly exceeded Quinn's, and Garrard is widely viewed as being better than BL, then it stands to reason Garrard was better than Quinn based on objective QB measures.  But what of the team's 3rd string QB, Quinn Gray? Having only a fraction of the career starts as Brady Quinn (4 vs. 20 for BQ), Gray threw or more TDs, had a vastly superior TD -INT ratio, won half as many games.  

But putting aside positional need for the moment, from  a BAP analysis, was passing on Brady Quinn justified? The Jaguars wound up drafting S Reggie Nelson in the first round that year.  Nelson had a good rookie year and notched 5 INTs.  He went on to make two pro bowls in what wound up a 12 year career.  Quinn made zero pro bowls, had a 4 year career.

Statistical data available on profootballreference.com.

With this in mind, isn't it possible that Shack Harris could have done an objective analysis wholly independent of race and rightfully  concluded any or all of the following 

1.  From a purely needs basis, there was zero justification for taking Brady Quinn at any point during the 2007 draft?

2.  From a purely talent evaluation basis,  there was zero justification in taking Brady Quinn over any of the QBS on the Jaguars roster at the time?

3.  From a purely talent evaluation basis, there was zero justification in taking Brady Quinn over Reggie Nelson?

4.  Based upon the comparative lengths and production of all of the players involved, isn't it possible Shack Harris' decision to pass on Brady Quinn the absolute right thing to do?

Too many people, both in the local sports media and the message board, entertained this false notion of Harris having a racist agenda to unjustly pass on Brady Quinn.  Unsurprisingly, many of these same people never bothered to revisit the facts once it became apparent Shack made the right decision in passing Brady Quinn.  They lacked the intellectual honesty8, factual mastery and testicular fortitude to admit they were wrong. None of these people ever argued that Gene Smith or Dave Caldwell were advancing some racial agenda by purging the roster of all black QBs to go with less qualified white QBs, even though from a performance and W-L basis, Leftwich and Garrard proved to be better than Gabbert, Henne and Bortles.

Shack Harris was far from a perfect GM.  He squandered BLs development, Garrard's and the team's overall development by blowing way too many first round picks on both sides of the ball.  He was unable to find a viable WR, LT, or edge rusher for this team to win the division,  reach the Super Bowl and sustain success.  But in comparison to Smith, he comes off looking like a genius, and the charges of racial agendas were completely warrantless.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I don't see how anyone could hate Ramsey. You should hate Coughlin for running him and others off by paying Blake instead of our superstars.

Imagine being at your job, and for an entire year you and some of your co-workers completely carry the workload, for the entire year. Then after the year is over, none of you get raises. The only guy who does was the one guy who hardly did any work. Thats what happened.

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#1 is and should always be Blaine Gabbert. The guy made Blake Bortles look like a solid QB and on top of it, he was an unlikeable coward.

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What about the guy at Nike who designed the two-tone helmet? We were stuck with those things for what? 4 years? 5 years?

Those unis with the two toned helmet look so much better than what we got going on right now. it felt like our first unique unis. Our current/legacy look so similar to the dolphins.

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Carlos Hyde?  He live near you and kick your dog or something? lol
I can understand not liking the signing - I didn't either.  But to make the hate list, he must have done something else, right?

You remember we traded for him and he refused to go on the field, right?

I don't recall that happening... If that's the case, it certainly qualifies as "something else" ?

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Never had any issues with James Harris. I remember those days very fondly in my early youth - teenage years. The only complaint I had when I look back on that era was cited a few weeks ago.

1. Lack of foresight. Brunell still had another year or two in the tank. This was made evident after the trade with Washington. Prior to RGIII's rookie season I think it was the last time they had made the play-off's. Gibbs and Brunell had a nice little run for a minute there.

2. Garrard not being given a chance to develop or fairly compete for the starting job.

3. Missing out on the opportunity to land one of three future hall of fame QB's the following year in 2004 between Manning, Rivers & Roethlisberger.

Given that it was Harris and Jack Del Rio's first up to bat. It wasn't surprising that they wanted to make their mark early. So, it's forgivable. I can at least say three good things overall about that era though. Regardless of talent on the roster. They were:

A. Competitive - They had better draft classes than most people realize.
B. Established an identity - Running offense with stout defense - You knew what you were going to get consistently.
C. They went after players on offense to make the QB's job easier on paper at least.

They at least TRIED. They never lost no more than 5 games during Jack Del Rio's tenure, that only happened three times as well, first year in, mid point in his career and then his final year. There was a good four year stretch where they were .500 or better. Keep in mind. This is during an AFC South division that had a Manning in his prime where 12 -4 and 11 - 5 was only good enough for 2nd place inside the division. They swung for the fences sometimes at the WR position via the draft and free agency. They were not afraid going for it.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

I liked shack harris it was a shame that pressure from ownership resulted in the all in 2 player draft (aka Derrick Harvey draft).

We have been so bad.

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Jalen is the worst.

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Respect the game.  Play with a sense of urgency. 


1.)  Take care of the ball.  Win the turnover battle.

2.)  It's all about 3rd down.  Win on 3rd down to win the game.

3.) Playmakers make plays.  The only reason that you put your uniform on is to make plays. In order to EARN your paycheck, you must make plays.  

Learn from the great collapse of 2023.  

What about the guy at Nike who designed the two-tone helmet? We were stuck with those things for what? 4 years? 5 years?

Those unis with the two toned helmet look so much better than what we got going on right now. it felt like our first unique unis. Our current/legacy look so similar to the dolphins.

I liked the jerseys and pants OK. But those helmets were the worst.
The current unis are nice, so long as they stick with teal socks.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Jalen is the worst.

How? He made big plays when it was critical moments, him alone had extra attendance at home games, he backed up his swag and attitude even if he was cocky. As a football player he was worth having here, we needed someone to change the identity of the defense and he fit the part, but it's the jags and I understand why he would wanna bail. Now he's one game away from playing in a super bowl. I hate the fact he left the team but he wanted to win and did what he had to do. Just my two cents

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People dont like ramsey because he sat and didnt want to play. He snaked his way out of town. His back injury and all that. Plus it transitioned to the jags horrible seasons so far since. Yes, know there are two sides to each story. I'm sure it didnt help anything what management was doing from their side

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Meh if my moms 49ers lose I'm rooting for Ramsey great player.

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No Fun

jaglou53
As the coaching search continues, Trent Baalke has become the primary villain and reason why so many candidates apparently would not come here as coach. That got me to thinking where Baalke would currently rank in the list of all-time hated Jaguars. Those eligible for this list must have either played, coached, owned or had any job with this franchise. After giving this some thought, my "top 5" most hated list is:

5. Blaine Gabbert: Jaguars traded up to get him. Had great physical tools, but none of the necessary intangibles (especially leadership). 

4. Urban Meyer: Many questioned his hiring, but had hopes due to his coaching record. Ultimately, he turned out to be even worse than the skeptics predicted, if that's possible.

3. Hugh Douglas: Signed a 5 year $27 million free agency deal, but got cut after 1 season and admitted he basically "stole" whatever money he collected from them.

2. Trent Baalke: May be rated too high, but if Leftwich doesn't sign he could end up #1. Seems like NOBODY except Khan likes this guy.

1. Jalen Ramsay: Among most talented Jaguars ever (behind Freddy T., Jimmy and Boselli), but number 1 among most despicable Jaguars ever to wear the uniform. 


Honorable mention: Shad Khan, for his total incompetence as an NFL owner.

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Meh if my moms 49ers lose I'm rooting for Ramsey great player.

I'd like to see the bangles win it all. A brand new team that's never won it before ever, but if I had to pick out of the teams left besides the bangles, I would go 49rs and then rams. Chiefs please no. Not again

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Meh if my moms 49ers lose I'm rooting for Ramsey great player.

I'd like to see the bangles win it all. A brand new team that's never won it before ever, but if I had to pick out of the teams left besides the bangles, I would go 49rs and then rams. Chiefs please no. Not again

Same boat. Would like to see a 49ers Vs. Bengals match up.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

James Harris The GM before Gene smith is #1 and its not even close and if your not old enough to remember him and his thoughts about who he wanted on the team and who he passed up in the draft look it up

I am old enough to remember Shack Harris, and your analysis of his tenure is way off.

First off, under Harris, the Jaguars rebounded from the aftermath of TCs first collapse and had 4 seasons of .500 or better between 2004 and 2007, including three (3) winning seasons and two playoff seasons.  The record reflects this is only the second period of any sustained success in team history.   Gene Smith did not come close to matching this and failed to notch even one winning and/or playoff season by the end of his tenure.

Shack Harris missed on numerous first round picks in his tenure including Reggie Williams, Matt Jones and the disastrous 2008 draft that featured a trade up for Derrick Harvey.  However, from the second round on, his drafts far eclipsed Gene Smith's.  Shack drafted Pro Bowlers like Rashean Mathis, Greg Jones, and Maurice Jones Drew, and other solid contributions like Daryl Smith and Vince Manuwai.  Gene Smith never drafted any Pro Bowl caliber players.  In fact, throughout Smith's tenure (2009-2012)the best players on the roster remained players drafted by Shack Harris.

Shack Harris was wrongly accused of advancisome sort of racist agenda because he had 3 black QBs on the roster under his watch.  Never mind the fact two of those QBs (David Garrard and Quinn Gray) were brought to the team by his white GM predecessor Tom Coughlin.  There was also consternation about Shack Harris' decision to bypass Brady Quinn in the 2007 draft, with many citing that action as proof of some sort of racist agenda at the QB position.

Having the benefit of more than a decade of hindsight and the entirety of the relevant players at our disposal, it's easy to see Harris' decision to pass on Brady Quinn was unquestionably the right thing to do.  Brady Quinn was drafted 22nd overall by the Cleveland Browns after the Jaguars passed him twice after trading back from around 17th overall.  Quinn played a total of four seasons, had 20 starts and compiled a 4-16 record.  He never threw more than 8 TDs in a season and threw all of 12 in his entire career, five (5) less than the number of INTs he threw.   

At the time, the Jaguars had 3 QBs on the roster: Byron Leftwich, David Garrard, and Quinn Gray.  Leftwich had 44 starts for the Jaguars and compiled a 24-20 record.  He finished his Jaguars playing career 51-36 TD-INT ratio.  By every objective measure, Leftwich was the superior player to Brady Quinn.  If Leftwich's performance clearly exceeded Quinn's, and Garrard is widely viewed as being better than BL, then it stands to reason Garrard was better than Quinn based on objective QB measures.  But what of the team's 3rd string QB, Quinn Gray? Having only a fraction of the career starts as Brady Quinn (4 vs. 20 for BQ), Gray threw or more TDs, had a vastly superior TD -INT ratio, won half as many games.  

But putting aside positional need for the moment, from  a BAP analysis, was passing on Brady Quinn justified? The Jaguars wound up drafting S Reggie Nelson in the first round that year.  Nelson had a good rookie year and notched 5 INTs.  He went on to make two pro bowls in what wound up a 12 year career.  Quinn made zero pro bowls, had a 4 year career.

Statistical data available on profootballreference.com.

With this in mind, isn't it possible that Shack Harris could have done an objective analysis wholly independent of race and rightfully  concluded any or all of the following 

1.  From a purely needs basis, there was zero justification for taking Brady Quinn at any point during the 2007 draft?

2.  From a purely talent evaluation basis,  there was zero justification in taking Brady Quinn over any of the QBS on the Jaguars roster at the time?

3.  From a purely talent evaluation basis, there was zero justification in taking Brady Quinn over Reggie Nelson?

4.  Based upon the comparative lengths and production of all of the players involved, isn't it possible Shack Harris' decision to pass on Brady Quinn the absolute right thing to do?

Too many people, both in the local sports media and the message board, entertained this false notion of Harris having a racist agenda to unjustly pass on Brady Quinn.  Unsurprisingly, many of these same people never bothered to revisit the facts once it became apparent Shack made the right decision in passing Brady Quinn.  They lacked the intellectual honesty8, factual mastery and testicular fortitude to admit they were wrong. None of these people ever argued that Gene Smith or Dave Caldwell were advancing some racial agenda by purging the roster of all black QBs to go with less qualified white QBs, even though from a performance and W-L basis, Leftwich and Garrard proved to be better than Gabbert, Henne and Bortles.

Shack Harris was far from a perfect GM.  He squandered BLs development, Garrard's and the team's overall development by blowing way too many first round picks on both sides of the ball.  He was unable to find a viable WR, LT, or edge rusher for this team to win the division,  reach the Super Bowl and sustain success.  But in comparison to Smith, he comes off looking like a genius, and the charges of racial agendas were completely warrantless.

I'll add that one of those seasons the team had a 12-4 record and beat both teams that ended up in the Superbowl that year. I'm right with you on your analysis. Seems like he always drafted for need in the first round, then best available afterwards. And the results speak for themselves.

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I wouldn't use the word hate for football players I don't know personally, but I didn't see Matt Jones mentioned. Super athletic talent wasted by laziness and a don't care attitude.

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I wouldn't use the word hate for football players I don't know personally, but I didn't see Matt Jones mentioned. Super athletic talent wasted by laziness and a don't care attitude.

Good call. I remember we passed on Heath Miller for him as a kid. Was bummed out. He had a ton of potential though.

He would take 3 steps and have a first down sometimes because of his crazy stride. Had he had his [BLEEP] together he could have been decent.

That one year he was nearing 1,000 yards receiving but fell short due to the 4 game suspension.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

I wouldn't use the word hate for football players I don't know personally, but I didn't see Matt Jones mentioned. Super athletic talent wasted by laziness and a don't care attitude.

Good call. I remember we passed on Heath Miller for him as a kid. Was bummed out. He had a ton of potential though.

He would take 3 steps and have a first down sometimes because of his crazy stride. Had he had his [BLEEP] together he could have been decent.

That one year he was nearing 1,000 yards receiving but fell short due to the 4 game suspension.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

I forgot about Miller. To me, that draft was about passing on Aaron Rogers. I totally get the argument that you don't draft a QB early two years removed from drafting one early. But really it's about value and ending up with two great QBs would be a fantastic position to be in. As it turned out, we missed on a HOF franchise QB.

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I am old enough to remember Shack Harris, and your analysis of his tenure is way off.

First off, under Harris, the Jaguars rebounded from the aftermath of TCs first collapse and had 4 seasons of .500 or better between 2004 and 2007, including three (3) winning seasons and two playoff seasons.  The record reflects this is only the second period of any sustained success in team history.   Gene Smith did not come close to matching this and failed to notch even one winning and/or playoff season by the end of his tenure.

Shack Harris missed on numerous first round picks in his tenure including Reggie Williams, Matt Jones and the disastrous 2008 draft that featured a trade up for Derrick Harvey.  However, from the second round on, his drafts far eclipsed Gene Smith's.  Shack drafted Pro Bowlers like Rashean Mathis, Greg Jones, and Maurice Jones Drew, and other solid contributions like Daryl Smith and Vince Manuwai.  Gene Smith never drafted any Pro Bowl caliber players.  In fact, throughout Smith's tenure (2009-2012)the best players on the roster remained players drafted by Shack Harris.

Shack Harris was wrongly accused of advancisome sort of racist agenda because he had 3 black QBs on the roster under his watch.  Never mind the fact two of those QBs (David Garrard and Quinn Gray) were brought to the team by his white GM predecessor Tom Coughlin.  There was also consternation about Shack Harris' decision to bypass Brady Quinn in the 2007 draft, with many citing that action as proof of some sort of racist agenda at the QB position.

Having the benefit of more than a decade of hindsight and the entirety of the relevant players at our disposal, it's easy to see Harris' decision to pass on Brady Quinn was unquestionably the right thing to do.  Brady Quinn was drafted 22nd overall by the Cleveland Browns after the Jaguars passed him twice after trading back from around 17th overall.  Quinn played a total of four seasons, had 20 starts and compiled a 4-16 record.  He never threw more than 8 TDs in a season and threw all of 12 in his entire career, five (5) less than the number of INTs he threw.   

At the time, the Jaguars had 3 QBs on the roster: Byron Leftwich, David Garrard, and Quinn Gray.  Leftwich had 44 starts for the Jaguars and compiled a 24-20 record.  He finished his Jaguars playing career 51-36 TD-INT ratio.  By every objective measure, Leftwich was the superior player to Brady Quinn.  If Leftwich's performance clearly exceeded Quinn's, and Garrard is widely viewed as being better than BL, then it stands to reason Garrard was better than Quinn based on objective QB measures.  But what of the team's 3rd string QB, Quinn Gray? Having only a fraction of the career starts as Brady Quinn (4 vs. 20 for BQ), Gray threw or more TDs, had a vastly superior TD -INT ratio, won half as many games.  

But putting aside positional need for the moment, from  a BAP analysis, was passing on Brady Quinn justified? The Jaguars wound up drafting S Reggie Nelson in the first round that year.  Nelson had a good rookie year and notched 5 INTs.  He went on to make two pro bowls in what wound up a 12 year career.  Quinn made zero pro bowls, had a 4 year career.

Statistical data available on profootballreference.com.

With this in mind, isn't it possible that Shack Harris could have done an objective analysis wholly independent of race and rightfully  concluded any or all of the following 

1.  From a purely needs basis, there was zero justification for taking Brady Quinn at any point during the 2007 draft?

2.  From a purely talent evaluation basis,  there was zero justification in taking Brady Quinn over any of the QBS on the Jaguars roster at the time?

3.  From a purely talent evaluation basis, there was zero justification in taking Brady Quinn over Reggie Nelson?

4.  Based upon the comparative lengths and production of all of the players involved, isn't it possible Shack Harris' decision to pass on Brady Quinn the absolute right thing to do?

Too many people, both in the local sports media and the message board, entertained this false notion of Harris having a racist agenda to unjustly pass on Brady Quinn.  Unsurprisingly, many of these same people never bothered to revisit the facts once it became apparent Shack made the right decision in passing Brady Quinn.  They lacked the intellectual honesty8, factual mastery and testicular fortitude to admit they were wrong. None of these people ever argued that Gene Smith or Dave Caldwell were advancing some racial agenda by purging the roster of all black QBs to go with less qualified white QBs, even though from a performance and W-L basis, Leftwich and Garrard proved to be better than Gabbert, Henne and Bortles.

Shack Harris was far from a perfect GM.  He squandered BLs development, Garrard's and the team's overall development by blowing way too many first round picks on both sides of the ball.  He was unable to find a viable WR, LT, or edge rusher for this team to win the division,  reach the Super Bowl and sustain success.  But in comparison to Smith, he comes off looking like a genius, and the charges of racial agendas were completely warrantless.

I'll add that one of those seasons the team had a 12-4 record and beat both teams that ended up in the Superbowl that year. I'm right with you on your analysis. Seems like he always drafted for need in the first round, then best available afterwards. And the results speak for themselves.

I am unsure whether the disparity between first and 2nd round players can be explained purely by need vs BAP drafting, because CB and LB (Mathis and Smith) were needs when they were drafted in the second round.  Considering the offense JDR was going to run, you could argue FB was a need, too.  TE has perpetually been a need for this team, and he drafted Marcedes Lewis in the first round.  He did actually make a Pro Bowl for us and wound up with a very long career.  I tend to think his paradigm for WRs (big, long striders) was off somehow, or otherwise did not correctly evaluate their character, as both wound up developing substance abuse issues.

That said, I submit the prevailing theory entertained by many that Shack Harris made the first round picks while Gene SMith made the picks from rounds 2-7 is not borne out by the facts..  None of Gene Smith's picks came close to matching the picks from rounds 2-7 in the Shack era.  From a talent perspective, Smith's best pick was Justin Blackmon.  But Blackmon was so addled by substance dependence, it was impossible for him to have been a productive player for the Jaguars or anyone else.    After that, I'd say maybe Eugene Monrow was Smith's best player, but he was an average to slightly above average LT, and certainly not the player at his position that MJD and Rashean Mathis were at their positions.

But we agree that, especially given the benefit of hindsight, Shack Harris remains under rated and under appreciated by the fans of this team, and you could argue this franchise has never recovered from his dismissal.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

At least Hugh Douglas got his butt kicked by Terrell Owens, so that helps a little.

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