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Trading Down scenarios

#41

(02-08-2022, 01:05 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: We will have a much better idea of the Jaguars draft strategy following the Super Bowl when teams can begin re-signing or tagging their own free agents. Once free agency officially begins on March 16, we will learn whether the Jaguars are able to sign a high-priced/top 10 player- something which did not happen last year. If they are able to sign a top receiver in free agency and possibly sign Chark to a 1 year "prove-it" deal, wide receiver would no longer become a top priority come draft time. They could still add to this group as early as round 3, however, with someone like Jalen Tolbert or in round 4 with Khalil Shakhir. The same goes for the offensive tackle position where a decision must be made on Cam Robinson. Peterson's decision on Robinson will be determined by how much confidence he has in Walker Little. Little looked good in his brief stint starting at left tackle, but is Peterson willing to gamble on Little's vast potential with such a small sample size? If he lets Robinson walk, the chances of drafting Evan Neal increase greatly.

My curent preference is to part ways with Cam Robinson. He only gave up 1 sack last season, however his overall PFF ranking is average, at best. I'd rather use the $17-$20 million it would cost to tag him to go after another free agent(s) who could be counted on at a position of need. Chris Godwin will likely return to Tampa, but he'd be my first target since I can't see Armstead coming here to replace Robinson. If Godwin stays in Tampa, Mike Williams would be a solid alternative. There are several viable choices in the NFL draft who could do a better job at right tackle than Jawaan Taylor. The Jaguars could use their 2nd round pick on this position and still draft Hutchinson in round 1 if a viable trade offer does not come their way. Neal would be a "safe" pick since he could immediately be plugged in at either tackle position, but Hutchinson could be elite and greatly upgrade the pass rush.

Sick
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#42
(This post was last modified: 02-08-2022, 02:29 PM by TheO-LineMatters.)

(02-08-2022, 01:56 PM)DTWD4∞ Wrote:
(02-08-2022, 01:05 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: We will have a much better idea of the Jaguars draft strategy following the Super Bowl when teams can begin re-signing or tagging their own free agents. Once free agency officially begins on March 16, we will learn whether the Jaguars are able to sign a high-priced/top 10 player- something which did not happen last year. If they are able to sign a top receiver in free agency and possibly sign Chark to a 1 year "prove-it" deal, wide receiver would no longer become a top priority come draft time. They could still add to this group as early as round 3, however, with someone like Jalen Tolbert or in round 4 with Khalil Shakhir. The same goes for the offensive tackle position where a decision must be made on Cam Robinson. Peterson's decision on Robinson will be determined by how much confidence he has in Walker Little. Little looked good in his brief stint starting at left tackle, but is Peterson willing to gamble on Little's vast potential with such a small sample size? If he lets Robinson walk, the chances of drafting Evan Neal increase greatly.

My curent preference is to part ways with Cam Robinson. He only gave up 1 sack last season, however his overall PFF ranking is average, at best. I'd rather use the $17-$20 million it would cost to tag him to go after another free agent(s) who could be counted on at a position of need. Chris Godwin will likely return to Tampa, but he'd be my first target since I can't see Armstead coming here to replace Robinson. If Godwin stays in Tampa, Mike Williams would be a solid alternative. There are several viable choices in the NFL draft who could do a better job at right tackle than Jawaan Taylor. The Jaguars could use their 2nd round pick on this position and still draft Hutchinson in round 1 if a viable trade offer does not come their way. Neal would be a "safe" pick since he could immediately be plugged in at either tackle position, but Hutchinson could be elite and greatly upgrade the pass rush.

I think if Neal is the pick, it is for LT. Still resistant to the thought of a RT at #1 overall. The question is, can we get a Rt in the 2nd or 3rd round?  Saw Bullseye? post in another thread Cowboys may release Amari Cooper and Demarcus Lawrence. Scooping up Cooper could really help the WR room.  Add a Godwin type (I agree we won't get hom) #2 wr also in FA allows the Edge at 1st pick and Rt in 2nd or 3rd round and let Little take over LT. Then focus on IOL with FA and draft. We still need LBs and Dbs as well. IOL in the midrounds too but I would like at least one guard from FA.

Amari Cooper would be a fantastic pickup, even though I doubt he would come here. He's a great route runner with good hands and we currently have no one with those attributes. I'm not so sure I would even bother looking at RT in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. I don't see anyone in that area I'd waste a pick on. I'd rather wait until the 3rd day of the draft. The OT's in the later rounds are just as good in this particular draft. The one guy that has impressed me the most is OT Cordell Volson of North Dakota State. He's really good. Probably the best pulling OT I've seen in a while. He was a 1st team All-American 2 years in a row and looked very impressive in the East/West Shrine Game. I'd save the picks in round 2 and 3 to concentrate on WR, TE, IOL, or ILB. Personally, I want a total tear down of the WR unit we had last season with the exception of Chark (if we can get him for the right price) and Agnew. Everyone else can pound sand.

(02-08-2022, 01:57 PM)Upper Wrote: Why in the world would a guy whose career is starting it's downturn come sign with a cellar dweller whose past two regimes (and current GM) has been singled out as toxic by the NFLPA when every team except for the Saints has more than enough money to give him a giant contract? This isn't 2016 where only a few teams have the money to give Calais a giant contract, the salary cap took a huge leap post covid and every team has loads of money. I don't expect to get anyone in the top 20-30 FAs.

Unfortunately, I agree 100%.
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#43

(02-08-2022, 02:15 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(02-08-2022, 01:05 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: We will have a much better idea of the Jaguars draft strategy following the Super Bowl when teams can begin re-signing or tagging their own free agents. Once free agency officially begins on March 16, we will learn whether the Jaguars are able to sign a high-priced/top 10 player- something which did not happen last year. If they are able to sign a top receiver in free agency and possibly sign Chark to a 1 year "prove-it" deal, wide receiver would no longer become a top priority come draft time. They could still add to this group as early as round 3, however, with someone like Jalen Tolbert or in round 4 with Khalil Shakhir. The same goes for the offensive tackle position where a decision must be made on Cam Robinson. Peterson's decision on Robinson will be determined by how much confidence he has in Walker Little. Little looked good in his brief stint starting at left tackle, but is Peterson willing to gamble on Little's vast potential with such a small sample size? If he lets Robinson walk, the chances of drafting Evan Neal increase greatly.

My curent preference is to part ways with Cam Robinson. He only gave up 1 sack last season, however his overall PFF ranking is average, at best. I'd rather use the $17-$20 million it would cost to tag him to go after another free agent(s) who could be counted on at a position of need. Chris Godwin will likely return to Tampa, but he'd be my first target since I can't see Armstead coming here to replace Robinson. If Godwin stays in Tampa, Mike Williams would be a solid alternative. There are several viable choices in the NFL draft who could do a better job at right tackle than Jawaan Taylor. The Jaguars could use their 2nd round pick on this position and still draft Hutchinson in round 1 if a viable trade offer does not come their way. Neal would be a "safe" pick since he could immediately be plugged in at either tackle position, but Hutchinson could be elite and greatly upgrade the pass rush.

Sick

I agree that Hutchinson would be preferable to Evan Neal. If the Jaguars are unable to trade down, Hutchinson would be my easy pick. However, the offensive line needs to be a top priority in the off-season. I just can't see paying Robinson $17 million based on his performance as a Jaguar. I do believe they can find good value in rounds 2 or 3 for a right tackle to play opposite Little. Another option is to trade back up into round 1 if Trevor Penning falls beyond the early 20's. As much as I hate to give up draft choices, if Penning is graded high enough it would be worth it to secure your bookend tackles for the next several years. 

The majority of people on this board believe that no top 10 free agent would come to Jacksonville. I do not agree with this, based on the following:

1. The Bengals are in the Super Bowl and won 2 games a couple years ago. This proves it is possible to improve significantly in a short time period.

2. Trevor Lawrence gives this team something they have never had which is a potential franchise quarterback. Brunell was good, but he had great weapons around him. Having Lawrence should be 
    a great selling point- especially to the receivers and tight ends in free agency.

3. Doug Peterson is a player's coach and has won a Super Bowl. 

4. The team's salary cap is figure is best in the NFL and Khan is more than willing to spend money on great players.

5. Jacksonville is a great place to live as evidenced by all the players who remained here after retirement. Low taxes and great weather are the main reasons for this.


We will know whether my beliefs come to fruition by around March 23. By then, most of the top free agents will have signed with their new teams. I am more than willing to admit my mistakes and will do so if the Jaguars are unable to land a solid group of free agents.
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#44

If we do trade down and the top 2 edge rushers are gone when we pick, I'm going to my BAP, which currently is CB Ahmad "Sauce" Gardner. That guy is a lockdown CB.
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#45

Where is Mike Ditka when we need him. I believe he traded all the Chicago picks to take Ricky Williams one year at #1.
A new broom always sweeps clean.
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#46

(02-09-2022, 11:51 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: If we do trade down and the top 2 edge rushers are gone when we pick, I'm going to my BAP, which currently is CB Ahmad "Sauce" Gardner. That guy is a lockdown CB.

I love Sauce, but you'd be drafting him high to be a Nickle CB? Campbell and Griffin are both outside CBs and have no business playing inside.
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#47
(This post was last modified: 02-09-2022, 05:16 PM by TheO-LineMatters. Edited 1 time in total.)

(02-09-2022, 04:59 PM)Eric1 Wrote:
(02-09-2022, 11:51 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: If we do trade down and the top 2 edge rushers are gone when we pick, I'm going to my BAP, which currently is CB Ahmad "Sauce" Gardner. That guy is a lockdown CB.

I love Sauce, but you'd be drafting him high to be a Nickle CB? Campbell and Griffin are both outside CBs and have no business playing inside.

Then I would sit or trade Campbell or Griffin. Gardner is the best lockdown corner I've seen in a couple years. I would never use him as a Nickle and I would not pass him up. I would have him in on every passing down. After Hutchinson and Thibodeaux, he is my #3 overall player by quite a bit.
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#48

(02-09-2022, 05:15 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(02-09-2022, 04:59 PM)Eric1 Wrote: I love Sauce, but you'd be drafting him high to be a Nickle CB? Campbell and Griffin are both outside CBs and have no business playing inside.

Then I would sit or trade Campbell or Griffin. Gardner is the best lockdown corner I've seen in a couple years. I would never use him as a Nickle and I would not pass him up. I would have him in on every passing down. After Hutchinson and Thibodeaux, he is my #3 overall player by quite a bit.

So then just take Thibs or Hutch and don't look back. Makes no sense to draft a guy and just create another hole by sitting or trading one of them. You'd still need a Nickle DB so you aren't really helping the team much with that pick if they aren't all on the field together.

Edge or OL is a much bigger need than CB.
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#49

(02-09-2022, 03:49 PM)Jag149 Wrote: Where is Mike Ditka when we need him.  I believe he traded all the Chicago picks to take Ricky Williams one year at #1.

it  was NOLA, but yeah, their entire  draft for one dude. And we though 2008 was a bad darft haul!
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#50

(02-10-2022, 09:32 AM)Mikey Wrote:
(02-09-2022, 03:49 PM)Jag149 Wrote: Where is Mike Ditka when we need him.  I believe he traded all the Chicago picks to take Ricky Williams one year at #1.

it  was NOLA, but yeah, their entire  draft for one dude. And we though 2008 was a bad darft haul!

To be fair, Rickey Williams was a LOT better than everyone we drafted in 2008 combined...and probably several other of our drafts too =(
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#51

(02-09-2022, 05:30 PM)Eric1 Wrote:
(02-09-2022, 05:15 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Then I would sit or trade Campbell or Griffin. Gardner is the best lockdown corner I've seen in a couple years. I would never use him as a Nickle and I would not pass him up. I would have him in on every passing down. After Hutchinson and Thibodeaux, he is my #3 overall player by quite a bit.

So then just take Thibs or Hutch and don't look back. Makes no sense to draft a guy and just create another hole by sitting or trading one of them. You'd still need a Nickle DB so you aren't really helping the team much with that pick if they aren't all on the field together.

Edge or OL is a much bigger need than CB.

My personal plan would be to take either one of the edge rushers at #1, but what the actual team does, may be different. If they do trade down, I'm still sticking to my draft board and taking the BAP though, no matter the position.
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#52

(02-10-2022, 10:47 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(02-09-2022, 05:30 PM)Eric1 Wrote: So then just take Thibs or Hutch and don't look back. Makes no sense to draft a guy and just create another hole by sitting or trading one of them. You'd still need a Nickle DB so you aren't really helping the team much with that pick if they aren't all on the field together.

Edge or OL is a much bigger need than CB.

My personal plan would be to take either one of the edge rushers at #1, but what the actual team does, may be different. If they do trade down, I'm still sticking to my draft board and taking the BAP though, no matter the position.

I hear ya but what if they don't resign Cam and make no headway at tackle in FA? Are you willing to roll with Little and Taylor as the starters? And I just don't see trading down from #1 happening either. While I advocate BAP, could we really pass on Neal and roll with Taylor? Tough call for me since I don't see a starter at tackle beyond round 1.
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#53

(02-10-2022, 03:55 PM)DTWD4∞ Wrote:
(02-10-2022, 10:47 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: My personal plan would be to take either one of the edge rushers at #1, but what the actual team does, may be different. If they do trade down, I'm still sticking to my draft board and taking the BAP though, no matter the position.

I hear ya but what if they don't resign Cam and make no headway at tackle in FA? Are you willing to roll with Little and Taylor as the starters? And I just don't see trading down from #1 happening either. While I advocate BAP, could we really pass on Neal and roll with Taylor? Tough call for me since I don't see a starter at tackle beyond round 1.

If that happens, I'm willing to roll with Little at LT and I would look for a RT on the 3rd day of the draft. As I said, I think the OT's that will be available on day 3 of the draft are as good, if not better than the overhyped ones at the top, especially if we are talking about RT prospects. I really like Cordell Volson of North Dakota State. I would look to draft him somewhere in the 4-5 round range at this point. I would also look for an OG/OT prospect and another O-Linemen with experience playing Center. Ideally, we would draft OT Cordell Volson as a RT, Cade Mays as an OG/OT and Nick Ford as a Center/OG. All of these guys have experience at playing other positions on the O-Line, so we can have flexibility where we line them up. 

Neal does not impress me at all.
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#54

(02-09-2022, 05:30 PM)Eric1 Wrote:
(02-09-2022, 05:15 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Then I would sit or trade Campbell or Griffin. Gardner is the best lockdown corner I've seen in a couple years. I would never use him as a Nickle and I would not pass him up. I would have him in on every passing down. After Hutchinson and Thibodeaux, he is my #3 overall player by quite a bit.

So then just take Thibs or Hutch and don't look back. Makes no sense to draft a guy and just create another hole by sitting or trading one of them. You'd still need a Nickle DB so you aren't really helping the team much with that pick if they aren't all on the field together.

Edge or OL is a much bigger need than CB.

Knowing the Jaguars fan base like I do, I'm thinking Thibs is displaying traits that could make him polarizing to our fanbase.

Jaguars fans don't like players being controversial and outspoken.

He has already gotten into a controversy with the University of Alabama, prompting a response from a former Alabama QB.

https://tdalabamamag.com/2022/01/12/kayv...-possible/

I can only imagine what he'll say if he somehow sours on Jacksonville.

Right now, I am leaning Evan Neal if we stay at 1.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#55

(02-10-2022, 06:23 PM)Bullseye Wrote:
(02-09-2022, 05:30 PM)Eric1 Wrote: So then just take Thibs or Hutch and don't look back. Makes no sense to draft a guy and just create another hole by sitting or trading one of them. You'd still need a Nickle DB so you aren't really helping the team much with that pick if they aren't all on the field together.

Edge or OL is a much bigger need than CB.

Knowing the Jaguars fan base like I do, I'm thinking Thibs is displaying traits that could make him polarizing to our fanbase.

Jaguars fans don't like players being controversial and outspoken.

He has already gotten into a controversy with the University of Alabama, prompting a response from a former Alabama QB.

https://tdalabamamag.com/2022/01/12/kayv...-possible/

I can only imagine what he'll say if he somehow sours on Jacksonville.

Right now, I am leaning Evan Neal if we stay at 1.

Neal is probably the "head" pick. I fully expect the team to go in that direction.

I kinda think Thibs is better suited to OLB in a 3-4, but think his floor is lower that Hutch's. Both would probably end up solid, but I don't see an elite prospect that makes me giddy to have my choosing among them or anyone else.

This is such a Jaguar darft. Never fails, we could be picking at 6, and there's 4 guys at the top that are can't miss, and we know we won't get any of em. This year, we got top pick and it's ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ if you're looking to match value, need, and potential.
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#56

(02-11-2022, 10:32 AM)Mikey Wrote:
(02-10-2022, 06:23 PM)Bullseye Wrote: Knowing the Jaguars fan base like I do, I'm thinking Thibs is displaying traits that could make him polarizing to our fanbase.

Jaguars fans don't like players being controversial and outspoken.

He has already gotten into a controversy with the University of Alabama, prompting a response from a former Alabama QB.

https://tdalabamamag.com/2022/01/12/kayv...-possible/

I can only imagine what he'll say if he somehow sours on Jacksonville.

Right now, I am leaning Evan Neal if we stay at 1.

Neal is probably the "head" pick. I fully expect the team to go in that direction.

I kinda think Thibs is better suited to OLB in a 3-4, but think his floor is lower that Hutch's. Both would probably end up solid, but I don't see an elite prospect that makes me giddy to have my choosing among them or anyone else.

This is such a Jaguar darft. Never fails, we could be picking at 6, and there's 4 guys at the top that are can't miss, and we know we won't get any of em. This year, we got top pick and it's ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ if you're looking to match value, need, and potential.

[Image: tenor.gif]
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#57

(02-11-2022, 10:32 AM)Mikey Wrote:
(02-10-2022, 06:23 PM)Bullseye Wrote: Knowing the Jaguars fan base like I do, I'm thinking Thibs is displaying traits that could make him polarizing to our fanbase.

Jaguars fans don't like players being controversial and outspoken.

He has already gotten into a controversy with the University of Alabama, prompting a response from a former Alabama QB.

https://tdalabamamag.com/2022/01/12/kayv...-possible/

I can only imagine what he'll say if he somehow sours on Jacksonville.

Right now, I am leaning Evan Neal if we stay at 1.

Neal is probably the "head" pick. I fully expect the team to go in that direction.

I kinda think Thibs is better suited to OLB in a 3-4, but think his floor is lower that Hutch's. Both would probably end up solid, but I don't see an elite prospect that makes me giddy to have my choosing among them or anyone else.

This is such a Jaguar darft. Never fails, we could be picking at 6, and there's 4 guys at the top that are can't miss, and we know we won't get any of em. This year, we got top pick and it's ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ if you're looking to match value, need, and potential.
99% of the time, you’re right with your last paragraph.

However last year, they for Trevor and for ONCE, it worked out.
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#58
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2022, 02:15 PM by D6. Edited 1 time in total.)

(02-04-2022, 06:54 AM)Bullseye Wrote:
(02-04-2022, 04:52 AM)Black and Teal Wrote: I don’t know if it’s possible, I doubt it. But trading down is probably the best move for the franchise. Any scenarios?
1. Aidan Hutchinson destroys the combine and drives his stock up
2. Kayvon Thibodeaux destroys the combine and drives his stock up
3. Malik Willis, spending all week with the Lions coaching staff, builds a strong pitch at the Senior Bowl (maybe the Lions gives us a second to move up and insure Willis).

I usually do a thread or two on this very topic every year.  I was planning to do one a little later, once the coaches were named and free agency went underway, but I've already been kicking some things around, so I might as well give it a shot now.

Generally, i don't think this is a strng year to trade down from the #1 overall spot, since there doesn't appear to be the can't miss QB prospect going into this draft.  None of the guys are as good as last April's class.  In fact, thinking about it more, I don't think any of these guys would seem to rate as favorably as the top two guys in the 2015 draft class (Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota).   I am hoping guys like Pickett and Willis have great offseasons and rocket up the draft boards between now and the draft to maximize the demand for our pick.  But I don't necessarily see that happening.  That said, let's examine the draft order, needs, draft capital, and possible trade up targets of the top dozen picks.

1.  Jacksonville

2.  Detroit, Needs QB, WR, Edge.  They have two first round picks this year#2 overall and the Rams (either 31 or 32 overall depending on the Super Bowl, and they will have two first rounders next year, their own and the Rams, due to the Matt Stafford trade.  However, since they have so much draft capital the next two years, since they are picking second if they do nothing, since they know we already took TL, and since there doesn't appear to be that stud QB at the top of the draft, the odds of them trading up one spot are virtually nil.

3.  Houston texans-Needs arguably QB, OL, WR, DL, LB, DB.  For the first time in a long time, the Texans currently have the standard allotment of picks because Bill O'Brien's disastrous trades finally exhausted themselves.  They could end up getting a boatload of picks if they can pull off a trade of Deshaun Watson, but depending on what happens with these sexual assault allegations, the big payoff might not come until 2023, if at all.  Since they are within the division, and since they are only two picks down, I don't see them trading with us, either.

4.  New York Jets-Needs:  WR, OL, TE, DB, Edge.  They have lots of draft capital, thanks to the Jamal Adams trade to Seattle, they have the #4 and #10 picks, and they have two 2nd round picks, #35 and #38.  Having drafted a QB #2 overall last spring, they have many of the same needs as we have.  Traditionally, they have been a team that trades up in the draft.  But I don't see them doing so at least at the top of this draft.  They may be more likely to trade back up into the bottom or even middle of the first round from the 2nd round.

5.  N.Y. Giants--Needs:  possibly QB, OL, Edge rusher.  Thanks to last year's trade down with Chicago for QB justin Fields, the Giants have lots of draft capital this year, with picks 5 and 7 in the first round.  If you are talking about teams possibly trading with the Jaguars for the top spot, here is where things start to get interesting.  It's rare that team owners are involved in blowing draft smoke, especially at this time of year, but they have a new coach and new GM.  When new coaches and new GMs come aboard, they usually want their guy at QB, which means despite Mara's representations, at this point, I think there's a decent shot they move on from Daniel Jones.  If a QB rises up the draft board into the top 5 status, they may need to move up over Detroit and maybe Houston to get that guy.  Besides QB, their other two positions of big need are OL (T specifically) and Edge rusher.  If you look at most draft boards/mock drafts at this stage, the guys at the top of these boards and drafts are T Evan Neal and edge rushers Thibideaux and Hutchinson.  It would make sense for them to stand pat and take an edge rusher like Karlaftsis (if they run a 4-3) and a T like the kid from NC State or Charles Cross, if they want a specific guy, this is about the spot where they may need to consider moving up to to get him.

6.  Carolina-Needs:  QB, OL.  Carolina Carlina's defense is pretty decently stocked.  They are pretty strong along the defensive line with a good DT in Derek Brown and good edge rushers.  Even if former Jaguar CJ Henderson continues to go AWOL, they are decent in the secondary at least for the moment, having gotten former Patriot Stephon Gilmore and S Jeremy Chinn.  What they lack is on offense.  Their owner is obsessed with getting a franchise signal caller.  If they don't acquire a vet like Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson or DeShaun Watson, they will need to draft one.  It's possible a guy like Wison or Pickett would fit nicely in at 6, but the danger for Carolina is that QB is typically a high demand position, and if they are relying on the draft to get one early, they may have to move up ahead of Detroit, Houston, or NYG to get one.  Same holds true for LT.  The problem for Carolina is that thanks to disastrous trades for Sam Darnold and Henderson, they have no draft capital this year, with no picks in the 2nd or 3rd round.  That might keep them from making a trade for one of the other veteran QBs.  If anything, I could see them trying to move down to recoup some of that drsft capital.

8.  Atlanta-Needs:  QB, WR, Edge.  I think of the teams in the top ten, Atlanta represents one of the strongest possibilities for the Jaguars to trade back.  Atlanta finished dead last in sacks by a wide margin, not even reaching 20 sacks in 17 games.  The problem is there are three edge rushers in the top of this class (Thibs, Hutchinson and Karlaftsis), and all three could easily be gone by #8.  Compounding things for Atlanta is that Karlaftsis is more of a true 4-3 DE, while both Hutchinson and Thibs are more standup rushers that would better fit Atlanta's schemes.  This is a relatively deep class of edge rushers, and Altnata could gamble that they can get a guy later.  But edge rushers are typically in such high demand, they would be chancing not being able to adequately address that area considering they may even need to double up at edge rusher  Atlanta has two second round picks, plus they have a WR that is currently a question mark in Ridley that could be of help to TL.

9.  Denver-Needs QB, Edge Rusher.  I think this is another spot that could see the Jaguars successfully trade back from #1, but for various reasons.  Regarding the edge rushers, the analysis is similar to Atlanta's.  Since they traded Von Miller and Bradley Chubb has had injury issues, Denver could use an edge rusher, irrespective of whether Hackett keeps the 3-4 Denver is currently running or changes to a 4-3.  But like Atlanta, they are possibly picking too far down to land one of the big three edge rushers.  But more interesting is how QB affects the dynamic.  Denver also has a new Head coach, and he will likely want his own guy at QB since Bridgewater and Lock have proven not to be long term answers at the positionm so rookie analysis may apply to them, too.  However, they are reported to be one o the teams interested in trading for Green Bay QB Aaron Rodgers.  If that trade goes through, as expected, Green bay could be the team occupying this spot.  If so, Green Bay could use a QB if they have soured on Love, or a T because of Bakhtiari's injury issues.  It's possible they could adequately address either position if they wound up at pick #9, but they are low enough to possibly miss out on their top guys if they stood pat.  Also, if they stay at 9, they would also address WR at that spot, since Davante Adams may want to depart if Rodgers leaves.

11.  Washington-Needs QB and T.  The Sk....errr....Commanders do not have a long term answer at QB.  Both heinecke and Fitzpatrick can be good placeholders, neither can take Washington where they want to go.  With their defense, it would make much more sense for them to go after one of the vets like Garoppolo, Wilson, etc. than to try to hope on a rookie QB to develop.

12.  Minnesota-Still in pretty good position at QB and T.  They need edge rushers though.  Will they play a 4-3 or a 3-4?  Either way, they will likely miss out on the top 3 edge rushers if they stay at 11.  While 11 might be an ideal spot for Jacksonville if they want to take a WR early, I'm not sure Minnesota would have the capital or inclination to move up that far, and I'm not sure Jacksonville would want to move that far back.

Hope this helps.

Bullseye, while there's a very realistic chance the Lions will address all 3 of these positions on the first 2 days of the 2022 Draft, at this time, I believe that Safety is the Lions most pronounced need. Tracy Walker is an UFA. Both parties appear to want to work out a new contract. Even if Walker is re-signed, the Lions need an upgrade at the other base Safety position. Will Harris has become a jack of all trades in the Lions Secondary. A team player. But Harris is probably better suited to provide depth and mix & match options in the Secondary than be a starter at a specific position. The rest of the Lions Safety options on the Lions current roster have at best more questions than answers.

If the Lions don't select an edge Defensive front 7 player with pick # 2, at present, Notre Dame S Kyle Hamilton seems like the most likely other possibility( if the Lions keep the pick).

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#59

(02-11-2022, 02:14 PM)D6 Wrote:
(02-04-2022, 06:54 AM)Bullseye Wrote: I usually do a thread or two on this very topic every year.  I was planning to do one a little later, once the coaches were named and free agency went underway, but I've already been kicking some things around, so I might as well give it a shot now.

Generally, i don't think this is a strng year to trade down from the #1 overall spot, since there doesn't appear to be the can't miss QB prospect going into this draft.  None of the guys are as good as last April's class.  In fact, thinking about it more, I don't think any of these guys would seem to rate as favorably as the top two guys in the 2015 draft class (Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota).   I am hoping guys like Pickett and Willis have great offseasons and rocket up the draft boards between now and the draft to maximize the demand for our pick.  But I don't necessarily see that happening.  That said, let's examine the draft order, needs, draft capital, and possible trade up targets of the top dozen picks.

1.  Jacksonville

2.  Detroit, Needs QB, WR, Edge.  They have two first round picks this year#2 overall and the Rams (either 31 or 32 overall depending on the Super Bowl, and they will have two first rounders next year, their own and the Rams, due to the Matt Stafford trade.  However, since they have so much draft capital the next two years, since they are picking second if they do nothing, since they know we already took TL, and since there doesn't appear to be that stud QB at the top of the draft, the odds of them trading up one spot are virtually nil.

3.  Houston texans-Needs arguably QB, OL, WR, DL, LB, DB.  For the first time in a long time, the Texans currently have the standard allotment of picks because Bill O'Brien's disastrous trades finally exhausted themselves.  They could end up getting a boatload of picks if they can pull off a trade of Deshaun Watson, but depending on what happens with these sexual assault allegations, the big payoff might not come until 2023, if at all.  Since they are within the division, and since they are only two picks down, I don't see them trading with us, either.

4.  New York Jets-Needs:  WR, OL, TE, DB, Edge.  They have lots of draft capital, thanks to the Jamal Adams trade to Seattle, they have the #4 and #10 picks, and they have two 2nd round picks, #35 and #38.  Having drafted a QB #2 overall last spring, they have many of the same needs as we have.  Traditionally, they have been a team that trades up in the draft.  But I don't see them doing so at least at the top of this draft.  They may be more likely to trade back up into the bottom or even middle of the first round from the 2nd round.

5.  N.Y. Giants--Needs:  possibly QB, OL, Edge rusher.  Thanks to last year's trade down with Chicago for QB justin Fields, the Giants have lots of draft capital this year, with picks 5 and 7 in the first round.  If you are talking about teams possibly trading with the Jaguars for the top spot, here is where things start to get interesting.  It's rare that team owners are involved in blowing draft smoke, especially at this time of year, but they have a new coach and new GM.  When new coaches and new GMs come aboard, they usually want their guy at QB, which means despite Mara's representations, at this point, I think there's a decent shot they move on from Daniel Jones.  If a QB rises up the draft board into the top 5 status, they may need to move up over Detroit and maybe Houston to get that guy.  Besides QB, their other two positions of big need are OL (T specifically) and Edge rusher.  If you look at most draft boards/mock drafts at this stage, the guys at the top of these boards and drafts are T Evan Neal and edge rushers Thibideaux and Hutchinson.  It would make sense for them to stand pat and take an edge rusher like Karlaftsis (if they run a 4-3) and a T like the kid from NC State or Charles Cross, if they want a specific guy, this is about the spot where they may need to consider moving up to to get him.

6.  Carolina-Needs:  QB, OL.  Carolina Carlina's defense is pretty decently stocked.  They are pretty strong along the defensive line with a good DT in Derek Brown and good edge rushers.  Even if former Jaguar CJ Henderson continues to go AWOL, they are decent in the secondary at least for the moment, having gotten former Patriot Stephon Gilmore and S Jeremy Chinn.  What they lack is on offense.  Their owner is obsessed with getting a franchise signal caller.  If they don't acquire a vet like Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson or DeShaun Watson, they will need to draft one.  It's possible a guy like Wison or Pickett would fit nicely in at 6, but the danger for Carolina is that QB is typically a high demand position, and if they are relying on the draft to get one early, they may have to move up ahead of Detroit, Houston, or NYG to get one.  Same holds true for LT.  The problem for Carolina is that thanks to disastrous trades for Sam Darnold and Henderson, they have no draft capital this year, with no picks in the 2nd or 3rd round.  That might keep them from making a trade for one of the other veteran QBs.  If anything, I could see them trying to move down to recoup some of that drsft capital.

8.  Atlanta-Needs:  QB, WR, Edge.  I think of the teams in the top ten, Atlanta represents one of the strongest possibilities for the Jaguars to trade back.  Atlanta finished dead last in sacks by a wide margin, not even reaching 20 sacks in 17 games.  The problem is there are three edge rushers in the top of this class (Thibs, Hutchinson and Karlaftsis), and all three could easily be gone by #8.  Compounding things for Atlanta is that Karlaftsis is more of a true 4-3 DE, while both Hutchinson and Thibs are more standup rushers that would better fit Atlanta's schemes.  This is a relatively deep class of edge rushers, and Altnata could gamble that they can get a guy later.  But edge rushers are typically in such high demand, they would be chancing not being able to adequately address that area considering they may even need to double up at edge rusher  Atlanta has two second round picks, plus they have a WR that is currently a question mark in Ridley that could be of help to TL.

9.  Denver-Needs QB, Edge Rusher.  I think this is another spot that could see the Jaguars successfully trade back from #1, but for various reasons.  Regarding the edge rushers, the analysis is similar to Atlanta's.  Since they traded Von Miller and Bradley Chubb has had injury issues, Denver could use an edge rusher, irrespective of whether Hackett keeps the 3-4 Denver is currently running or changes to a 4-3.  But like Atlanta, they are possibly picking too far down to land one of the big three edge rushers.  But more interesting is how QB affects the dynamic.  Denver also has a new Head coach, and he will likely want his own guy at QB since Bridgewater and Lock have proven not to be long term answers at the positionm so rookie analysis may apply to them, too.  However, they are reported to be one o the teams interested in trading for Green Bay QB Aaron Rodgers.  If that trade goes through, as expected, Green bay could be the team occupying this spot.  If so, Green Bay could use a QB if they have soured on Love, or a T because of Bakhtiari's injury issues.  It's possible they could adequately address either position if they wound up at pick #9, but they are low enough to possibly miss out on their top guys if they stood pat.  Also, if they stay at 9, they would also address WR at that spot, since Davante Adams may want to depart if Rodgers leaves.

11.  Washington-Needs QB and T.  The Sk....errr....Commanders do not have a long term answer at QB.  Both heinecke and Fitzpatrick can be good placeholders, neither can take Washington where they want to go.  With their defense, it would make much more sense for them to go after one of the vets like Garoppolo, Wilson, etc. than to try to hope on a rookie QB to develop.

12.  Minnesota-Still in pretty good position at QB and T.  They need edge rushers though.  Will they play a 4-3 or a 3-4?  Either way, they will likely miss out on the top 3 edge rushers if they stay at 11.  While 11 might be an ideal spot for Jacksonville if they want to take a WR early, I'm not sure Minnesota would have the capital or inclination to move up that far, and I'm not sure Jacksonville would want to move that far back.

Hope this helps.

Bullseye, while there's a very realistic chance the Lions will address all 3 of these positions on the first 2 days of the 2022 Draft, at this time, I believe that Safety is the Lions most pronounced need. Tracy Walker is an UFA. Both parties appear to want to work out a new contract. Even if Walker is re-signed, the Lions need an upgrade at the other base Safety position. Will Harris has become a jack of all trades in the Lions Secondary. A team player. But Harris is probably better suited to provide depth and mix & match options in the Secondary than be a starter at a specific position. The rest of the Lions Safety options on the Lions current roster have at best more questions than answers.

If the Lions don't select an edge Defensive front 7 player with pick # 2, at present, Notre Dame S Kyle Hamilton seems like the most likely other possibility( if the Lions keep the pick).
I heard some national "draft expert" on 1010xl a few days ago mention that he thinks Detroit will likely want Hutchinson, the local high school and college product, if he shows/tests well in the Combine and Pro Day events.  Furthermore he said, from a Jags standpoint, this would be good as they would probably try to entice Detroit to move up to guaranty him.  Personally, I don't see it but just passing on the gossip.
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#60

(02-11-2022, 06:05 PM)ATLjag Wrote:
(02-11-2022, 02:14 PM)D6 Wrote: Bullseye, while there's a very realistic chance the Lions will address all 3 of these positions on the first 2 days of the 2022 Draft, at this time, I believe that Safety is the Lions most pronounced need. Tracy Walker is an UFA. Both parties appear to want to work out a new contract. Even if Walker is re-signed, the Lions need an upgrade at the other base Safety position. Will Harris has become a jack of all trades in the Lions Secondary. A team player. But Harris is probably better suited to provide depth and mix & match options in the Secondary than be a starter at a specific position. The rest of the Lions Safety options on the Lions current roster have at best more questions than answers.

If the Lions don't select an edge Defensive front 7 player with pick # 2, at present, Notre Dame S Kyle Hamilton seems like the most likely other possibility( if the Lions keep the pick).
I heard some national "draft expert" on 1010xl a few days ago mention that he thinks Detroit will likely want Hutchinson, the local high school and college product, if he shows/tests well in the Combine and Pro Day events.  Furthermore he said, from a Jags standpoint, this would be good as they would probably try to entice Detroit to move up to guaranty him.  Personally, I don't see it but just passing on the gossip.

This certainly a possibility, especially if Hutchinson separates himself from Thibodeaux at the combine. I would demand their 2nd round pick, however. I'd even consider making another trade for the 2nd overall pick as someone may want Thibodeaux, Neal or Pickett. The Jaguars need to accumulate as many picks as possible in the top 3 rounds due to their needs almost across the board.
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