I'm confused. If we're supposedly hiring an EVP to be above Baalke, wouldn't they be in charge of free agency and the draft? If not, why hire one? Would it just be for optics in order to fool the fans into thinking Baalke was demoted? We want someone else to be in charge of the draft and free agency. If Baalke is still in charge of these areas, nothing changes no matter who the head coach is. What would the new EVP's duties even be?

No, the EVP is supposed to be the guy in charge of everything that keeps everyone in their lane, but let's them do their job and does his best not to step on toes. That was Coughlin's problem, he still wanted to be a coach and tried to meddle in everything.

But, it's also a made up position so it can be different things for different teams and different people in their position. I think it's definitely going to be different for Spielman than it was for Coughlin.

They’re also hiring an assistant GM (Dilla threw out Horwitz and Omar Khan) so no one really knows what’s gonna happen.

They keep mentioning a collaborative effort and my guess is that Baalkes voice is getting diminished by the minute.

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No, the EVP is supposed to be the guy in charge of everything that keeps everyone in their lane, but let's them do their job and does his best not to step on toes. That was Coughlin's problem, he still wanted to be a coach and tried to meddle in everything.

But, it's also a made up position so it can be different things for different teams and different people in their position. I think it's definitely going to be different for Spielman than it was for Coughlin.

So there is still hope that a new EVP will assume the duties of drafting and free agency?

We can hope for it, but it came out of Baalke's own mouth that he was excited to be in his new role where he gets to put even more focus into FA and the draft.

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So there is still hope that a new EVP will assume the duties of drafting and free agency?

We can hope for it, but it came out of Baalke's own mouth that he was excited to be in his new role where he gets to put even more focus into FA and the draft.

If Baalke does stay in charge of the draft and free agency, there is no hope for the future. We are doomed.

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With an evp taking other duties off his plate, Baalke will focus on his strength as being a free agent and draft player evaluator.

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I think Baalke is done. The owner did not want to do it, but the new EVP will act quickly.

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With an evp taking other duties off his plate, Baalke will focus on his strength as being a free agent and draft player evaluator.

Strength? 

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Lets hope the jags have there [BLEEP] together and make the right selections in the draft, hopefully we have a injury free offseason as well

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Once again, Baalke's draft with the Jags yielded 5 potential starters. Not earth shattering, but not putrid.

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Once again, Baalke's draft with the Jags yielded 5 potential starters. Not earth shattering, but not putrid.

I might be inclined to agree with you on this, but the fact one is a RB that suffered a season ending Lis Franc injury, one is a CB that got off to a slow start last year and seemingly is a zone CB, and Little and Cisco didn't get any significant playing time until late last year under the disastrous UM regime gives me pause.

How many of those guys are definitive scheme fits under Pederson, much less quality starters?

I figure Trevor and Etienne are fits.

Maybe Walker Little.  But is he a starter?  If so, where?  If we keep Cam Robinson, does he start over him, or does little move to RT?  What if the team drafts Evan Neal?

Cisco?  If he was slow to pick up the defense last year, will he be slow to pick up the new schemes?

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Once again, Baalke's draft with the Jags yielded 5 potential starters. Not earth shattering, but not putrid.

I might be inclined to agree with you on this, but the fact one is a RB that suffered a season ending Lis Franc injury, one is a CB that got off to a slow start last year and seemingly is a zone CB, and Little and Cisco didn't get any significant playing time until late last year under the disastrous UM regime gives me pause.

How many of those guys are definitive scheme fits under Pederson, much less quality starters?

I figure Trevor and Etienne are fits.

Maybe Walker Little.  But is he a starter?  If so, where?  If we keep Cam Robinson, does he start over him, or does little move to RT?  What if the team drafts Evan Neal?

Cisco?  If he was slow to pick up the defense last year, will he be slow to pick up the new schemes?

Little and Cisco look like above average starters in any system. I blame Meyer for not starting them, just like not playing JRob. Campbell is a starter too. I’m no Baalke defender, but you can’t say he should’ve been drafting corners to fit Pederson’s defensive coordinator’s scheme. I think this looks like Baalke’s best draft, whereas his 49ers drafts were awful. ETN was a pure Meyer pick. It was going to be a running back or smallish receiver/gadget player to replicate Percy Harvin.

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"I am only an average man, but by George, I work harder at it than the average man." - Teddy Roosevelt

I might be inclined to agree with you on this, but the fact one is a RB that suffered a season ending Lis Franc injury, one is a CB that got off to a slow start last year and seemingly is a zone CB, and Little and Cisco didn't get any significant playing time until late last year under the disastrous UM regime gives me pause.

How many of those guys are definitive scheme fits under Pederson, much less quality starters?

I figure Trevor and Etienne are fits.

Maybe Walker Little.  But is he a starter?  If so, where?  If we keep Cam Robinson, does he start over him, or does little move to RT?  What if the team drafts Evan Neal?

Cisco?  If he was slow to pick up the defense last year, will he be slow to pick up the new schemes?

Little and Cisco look like above average starters in any system. I blame Meyer for not starting them, just like not playing JRob. Campbell is a starter too. I’m no Baalke defender, but you can’t say he should’ve been drafting corners to fit Pederson’s defensive coordinator’s scheme. I think this looks like Baalke’s best draft, whereas his 49ers drafts were awful. ETN was a pure Meyer pick. It was going to be a running back or smallish receiver/gadget player to replicate Percy Harvin.

I get all of that.

However, their value as starters pretty much is yet to be determined.

Even assuming these guys were wrongly kept on the bench by an inept coaching staff, they still haven't proven their value to this current coaching staff.

Tyson Campbell started doing well as a corner when they went mostly to zone.  But if Pederson's schemes are predominantly man, and Campbell still can't adjust, then what?  Hopefully, Pederson and company will adjust their schemes to meet the personnel, but until they thrive in out system as starters, we still don't know.

Do I think guys like Etienne, little, Campbell and cisco could be quality starters?  Yes.  I certainly hope so.  Had they started more on a 3 win team, I'd feel more confident.

But you don't know until you know, ya know, and there's not enough evidence to know.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

That's what Defenses are for. We've already proven we can build a Defense here, even under Khan's leadership as owner. If we get the bookend pass rusher to Josh Allen at #1 this year I'm not even worried about those QB's because they can't complete passes while lying on their back!

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Championship Formula:

1) Draft Trevor Lawrence!
2) Play good physical Defense! 
3) Keep 91% of the roster healthy!
4) ???
5) Blank #2
6) CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

No, the EVP is supposed to be the guy in charge of everything that keeps everyone in their lane, but let's them do their job and does his best not to step on toes. That was Coughlin's problem, he still wanted to be a coach and tried to meddle in everything.

But, it's also a made up position so it can be different things for different teams and different people in their position. I think it's definitely going to be different for Spielman than it was for Coughlin.

They’re also hiring an assistant GM (Dilla threw out Horwitz and Omar Khan) so no one really knows what’s gonna happen.

They keep mentioning a collaborative effort and my guess is that Baalkes voice is getting diminished by the minute.

Dilla is totally unreliable, and those two guys would not work under Baalke. They’re rising stars - Baalke wants someone he can control, not someone who’s gonna steal his thunder. That’s why he pushed for milquetoast personality coaches like Eberdufus and Tomsula.

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"I am only an average man, but by George, I work harder at it than the average man." - Teddy Roosevelt

Brady
Manning
Rothlisberger
McNair
Rivers
Palmer
Plummer

This thing is never easy. It’s always been that way. Always will be. Talent is constantly recycling.

Agreed that it's always tough, but as impressive as your list is, it doesn't compare with mine in terms of age.

By 2004, McNair was in the league ten (10) seasons and was 31.  He only played 3 more seasons after that.  He was not young.

Manning had played in the league seven (7) years and was 28 by 2004.   Not young in NFL terms (though he continued to play for a decade more).

Tom Brady was 27 by 2004.  Jake Plummer played 8 years and was 30 by2004 when Rivers and Big Ben arrived.  Again, not Young by NFL standards.

In my initial list, by contrast...Mahomes is 26, Allen is 25, Burrow is 25, Justin Herbert is 23, Lamar Jackson is 24, Mac Jones is 23, Mayfield is 26.

That primary list did not include Deshaun Watson, who is only 25, Zach Wilson, is 22, and Trevor Lawrence is 22.

The group I listed is younger overall and all more closely concentrated in age  than the group you listed above.

Of course, the fact many of your guys were older than my group didn't make them any less great or make them any easier to beat in the playoffs.  But the concentration of young, talented signal callers (which is part of my point) we now see in the AFC is unlike anything I've seen before.  That combination of youth and talent will mean TL will have to excel for longer and make more opponents tougher to beat for a longer period of time.  The surrounding talent requirement is exacerbated because of that.

So on your list, mac jones is a game manager, mayfield is looking closer to starter than pro-bowl level. Lamar Javkson shine is starting to come off. Hes starter level, but the guy is very beatable. Allen and Mahomes are beast, burrow is looking the same, and herbert is a very solid guy as well but probably not in same tier as other 3. The guys I expect to be starting in 10 years are basically only the last four (Allen, Mahomes, Burrow and Herbert). I think mayfield will be out for sure by then, Mac will likely be replaced by then, and Wilson I think will be ruined by Jets. We will have to see how we do with Lawrance. If he doesnt take a big jump this year, it will be hard to see him as a starter in 10 years as well. The AFC is only 4 qbs deep imo without Watson.

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I think the assumption that free agents will not want to come to Jacksonville is probably premature. With the new coaching staff that is player friendly, and a new EVP that ultimately controls the roster of decisions, I’m not sure the gm will really be a big problem.

We were still the worst team in the league last year and not a destination at all. No body is rushing to come to us. We will likely overpay for anyone we get.

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Yes, it's improvement, but it's Blaine Gabbert 2012 level improvement. - Pirkster

http://youtu.be/ouGM3NWpjxk The Home Hypnotist!

http://youtu.be/XQRFkn0Ly3A Media on the Brain Link!
 

Peyton must store oxygen in that forehead of his. No way I'd still be alive after all that choking.

 

Agreed that it's always tough, but as impressive as your list is, it doesn't compare with mine in terms of age.

By 2004, McNair was in the league ten (10) seasons and was 31.  He only played 3 more seasons after that.  He was not young.

Manning had played in the league seven (7) years and was 28 by 2004.   Not young in NFL terms (though he continued to play for a decade more).

Tom Brady was 27 by 2004.  Jake Plummer played 8 years and was 30 by2004 when Rivers and Big Ben arrived.  Again, not Young by NFL standards.

In my initial list, by contrast...Mahomes is 26, Allen is 25, Burrow is 25, Justin Herbert is 23, Lamar Jackson is 24, Mac Jones is 23, Mayfield is 26.

That primary list did not include Deshaun Watson, who is only 25, Zach Wilson, is 22, and Trevor Lawrence is 22.

The group I listed is younger overall and all more closely concentrated in age  than the group you listed above.

Of course, the fact many of your guys were older than my group didn't make them any less great or make them any easier to beat in the playoffs.  But the concentration of young, talented signal callers (which is part of my point) we now see in the AFC is unlike anything I've seen before.  That combination of youth and talent will mean TL will have to excel for longer and make more opponents tougher to beat for a longer period of time.  The surrounding talent requirement is exacerbated because of that.

So on your list, mac jones is a game manager, mayfield is looking closer to starter than pro-bowl level. Lamar Javkson shine is starting to come off. Hes starter level, but the guy is very beatable. Allen and Mahomes are beast, burrow is looking the same, and herbert is a very solid guy as well but probably not in same tier as other 3. The guys I expect to be starting in 10 years are basically only the last four (Allen, Mahomes, Burrow and Herbert). I think mayfield will be out for sure by then, Mac will likely be replaced by then, and Wilson I think will be ruined by Jets. We will have to see how we do with Lawrance. If he doesnt take a big jump this year, it will be hard to see him as a starter in 10 years as well. The AFC is only 4 qbs deep imo without Watson.

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I think the assumption that free agents will not want to come to Jacksonville is probably premature. With the new coaching staff that is player friendly, and a new EVP that ultimately controls the roster of decisions, I’m not sure the gm will really be a big problem.

We were still the worst team in the league last year and not a destination at all. No body is rushing to come to us. We will likely overpay for anyone we get.

FWIW, Peter King views things similarly to me.

8. I think this falls under the I’m Just Saying banner … Patrick Mahomes is still only 26, with plenty of career left. But when he started this four AFC-title-games-in-four-years run, Tom Brady beat him, and Brady was 41, and Mahomes was soon to be king of the mountain, mostly alone. But here came Josh Allen as a major threat in Buffalo. And in ’20, Joe Burrow and Justin Herbert popped up in the same conference, not to mention the 2019 MVP, Lamar Jackson, and the badly tarnished Deshaun Watson. Imagine if Aaron Rodgers gets dealt to the AFC in March or April. Mahomes’ conference next year could be the top-heaviest for quarterbacks since the NFL split into conferences in 1970. It’s a long way of saying that Mahomes played four straight AFC Championship Games at homes and got just one Super Bowl ring out of the four. Not optimal, if you want to chase all-time greatness in the quarterback pantheon.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...eter-king/

I have had some question about Jackson's passing ability, but he's been a very good QB so far.  Last year he got hurt, but otherwise I don't think he has lost his luster...yet.  He's still a weapon at the position.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

However, the AFC is absolutely loaded with young, franchise level signal callers.  

Patrick Mahomes - BRADY - Brady
Justin Herbert - RIVERS - Rivers (herbert has potential)
Derek Carr - FLACCO - Tie
Joe Burrow - P. MANNING - Manning
Lamar Jackson - VINCE YOUNG - Jackson
Baker Mayfield - ANDY DALTON - tie
Josh Allen - ROETHLISBERGER - very close
Mac Jones - ANDREW LUCK - Luck easily (Mac Jones sucks other than game manager) !!

I tried to compare ~ 10 years ago to the current day QB.  The QBs from 10 years ago look better than the current QBs.  The 10 year stretch of Brady, Manning, Ben, and Rivers was like no other in a single conference.

You compared young QBs who have barely started their careers to old QBs who have had a full career.  Naturally, the old QBs have accomplished more than the young QBs.  So it's not really a fair comparison.

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I tried to compare ~ 10 years ago to the current day QB.  The QBs from 10 years ago look better than the current QBs.  The 10 year stretch of Brady, Manning, Ben, and Rivers was like no other in a single conference.

You compared young QBs who have barely started their careers to old QBs who have had a full career.  Naturally, the old QBs have accomplished more than the young QBs.  So it's not really a fair comparison.

Exactly right! For instance, writing off Mac Jones as a game manager that sucks after one year is a tad premature. I would expect his talent base will broaden and he'll be given a larger scope
of responsibilities as he matures.

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