Why keep a WR that can't catch? That's like keeping a RB that can't run, a QB that can't throw, a kicker that can't kick or a LB that can't tackle. Sometimes players just are what they are and you have to accept it and move on. Shenault is never gonna be a star player. I doubt he ever even turns out to even be average. Some people believe we let players go too early, but in those cases the players forced our hands. I personally believe we hold onto unproductive players way too long i.e. K'Lavon Chaisson, Jawaan Taylor, A.J. Cann and Taven Bryan. Bryan may start drawing retirement checks from this team, since it seems like he's been here forever. None of these guys have contributed anything of value to this team, but they are still here. Why?

He's a third year player at 23 years old who, along with the rest of this team, suffered the Urban Error last year. He's still averaging 60 catches and 700 yards even as bad as this team has been. So yeah, he's already better than you give him credit for. Is he great? Hardly. Does he need to work on his craft? Assuredly. But you talking about cutting him? C'mon now.

I never mentioned cutting Shenault. I said I would cut Jawaan Taylor if we couldn't trade him and I would cut K'Lavon Chaisson, but not Shenault. I said I would trade Shenault. We would get offers for him. If we didn't, I move him to RB.

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We don't have enough talent on the roster to be sellers of any kind. Unless it's 200% clear the guy isn't resigning then I don't think it's in our best interest to make the roster worse and add another draft pick/young player that won't be useful for years.

Jawaan Taylor is better than Guy Whimper so i'm ok with him playing out his deal and seeing what the market brings, i'd prefer to go forward with Little & Cam Robinson at OT but we'll see what Pederson decides to do there.

Under no circumstances should we trade Josh Allen, if we get Thibs or Hutch across from him our Defense could be rebuilt to its former glory quickly!

That's like saying bile taste better than raw sewage. You gotta set the bar higher than that. LOL. 

Of course not.

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At this point why trade anyone unless the other team is willing to vastly over pay?

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

No reason to trade Schenault. He is young and no one is gonna trade much for him. Keep him and let's see what he can do with this new coaching staff.

Jack and Linder are the only options imo.

We would likely get extremely little to nothing for Linder.  He 30 with a record of injuries and a $9.5 million salary.  He's also on the last year of his contract.  As such, he would be a one year rental for a team.  No team is going to give much, if anything, for that.  I would keep Linder and try to draft a center in the 3rd of 4th round.  Centers often fall in the draft.  He can be depth for year 1.  Given Linder's record of injuries, it wouldn't be surprising if the pick got significant playing time in 2022.  Assuming the draft pick looks good, he can take over as the starter in 2023.

I will say Jack is the only one who is a trade possibility.  You can make the argument that he's a bad scheme fit if we assume we stick with the 3-4.  He's also one that we might get something good in return.  Some thought he played at a pro-bowl level in 2020 in the 4-3 scheme.  If another team that runs the 4-3 agrees, they might offer a good pick.  However, I only considering trading Jack if it is for a good pick.

I honestly don't think we would either, given that he is in the final year of his deal, has a history of injuries and has a high one year rental price. Linder is our best O-Linemen when he's not injured. It's just that he cannot be counted on to be healthy. It'll be interesting to see what the team does with him. I believe we add a Center either in the draft or free agency. If that happens, Linder is probably a cap casualty.

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While I agree in theory, what if a player just refuses to play for this team anymore like Ramsey and Ngakoue did? Ramsey faked an injury in order to sit out until he was traded. Players are forcing team's hands anymore to get what they want. What do we do then? Do we force them to stay here while they chose to sit on I.R. with their "phantom injuries" or do we trade them and try to get the best deal we can?

I'm in agreement with keeping our good players, but I also think many have fuzzy memories regarding Ramsey and Ngakoue.  It's not like the Jaguars set out to trade them for no reason.  They were both holding out and the Jaguars felt their hands were tied.  People also forget that we got a lot in return for them.  In exchange for Ramsey and Ngakoue, the Jaguars got two first rounders, a second rounder, a fourth rounder and a fifth rounder.  Justin Jefferson was available with one of those first round picks.  We could have had Justin Jefferson, a first rounder, a second rounder, a fourth rounder and a fifth rounder.  If you prefer quality over quantity, we could have used the second, fourth and fifth round picks to trade up in the first round.  That should have gotten us a very quality starter to go along with Justin Jefferson.  Yes, we lost two quality players, but we should have gained at least two quality players as a result and saved a bunch of salary cap space at the same time.  This team wasn't destroyed because of those trades.  The Jaguars suffered because of poor drafting after the trades.

So true. It tears my heart out just to re-live how badly we used those valuable draft picks. We got nothing in return, because of terrible selections. What made it worse was that almost this entire board was in agreement on who we should've taken and those players have become stars at their positions.

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So true. It tears my heart out just to re-live how badly we used those valuable draft picks. We got nothing in return, because of terrible selections. What made it worse was that almost this entire board was in agreement on who we should've taken and those players have become stars at their positions.

It's a shame that the consensus of rabid fans on a message board are better at drafting than the co-called professionals we have had doing it lately.

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Fix the O-Line!

So true. It tears my heart out just to re-live how badly we used those valuable draft picks. We got nothing in return, because of terrible selections. What made it worse was that almost this entire board was in agreement on who we should've taken and those players have become stars at their positions.

It's a shame that the consensus of rabid fans on a message board are better at drafting than the co-called professionals we have had doing it lately.

Sadder still is the hold over that is picking players again because the owner is incompetent.

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I was pretty disappointed in Shenaults play but I think he can really thrive in Doug Peterson’s RPO Scheme, I don’t want to move anybody unless their contract is well above their play.

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[img]blob:https://www.duvalpride.com/1a8a2498-9833-4b7d-8cc7-5e45aa36d9f6[/img][img=648x560]blob:https://www.duvalpride.com/cfd7a344-8206-4fed-a4c4-6536e150b1a7[/img]

We have a few current players on this team that just aren't working out and should be dealt. Who are the players you would be shopping, if you were in the front office? 


1. Myles Jack- You just can't fit a square peg into a round hole. Jack is a pure 4-3 OLB, but we run a 3-4 base defense and he just doesn't have a role with this team anymore. We could save $6 million by dealing him somewhere and we could use that savings to find a player who really fits the role of a 3-4 ILB like we need. He is the player that I start shopping immediately. 

2. Jawaan Taylor- I don't know if we could get anything at all for this guy, but if someone is willing to give us a conditional 7th rounder, I take it. If we get no offers, I cut him outright. He is a liability. 

3. Laviska Shenault- I take the best offer we can get. I know he's cheap, but he is also a liability. He gets worse every year and if I have to see him drop another catchable pass, I'm gonna punch a hole in my TV. He was as much a liability last season as Jawaan Taylor was. 


I would love to deal Rayshawn Jenkins somewhere, but he has a $13 million dead cap hit, so we are stuck with him for another season at least. The same goes for Roy Robertson-Harris. He has a $10.6 million deal cap hit. Both players were complete wastes of money in last season's free agency.

Holy crap that last paragraph. Wonder if the folks who try to defend Baalke can spin that into a positive.

Jack might be tradeable, and in your list, I think he might be the only one I can say that for.

Taylor is probably young and cheap enough to allow a year to serve as backup guard/RT. I don't see him starting next season once all the shuffling along the line is done. If he refuses to serve as backup or play guard as previously reported, I think you have to let him walk, because he'd almost certainly lose a competition with whoever else we slot at RT.

I've never known what we have or what we intended with Shenault. That might be part of the problem, having no role, no expertise, no plays that make your ability the focus. Who's going to want a guy they have no idea what he does (or does best)?

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I distinctly recall people complaining about Allen Robinson dropping the ball too much his first or second year.

Jimmy Smith dropped a lot of catchable balls too.  Probably held onto him to long as well.

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We have a few current players on this team that just aren't working out and should be dealt. Who are the players you would be shopping, if you were in the front office? 


1. Myles Jack- You just can't fit a square peg into a round hole. Jack is a pure 4-3 OLB, but we run a 3-4 base defense and he just doesn't have a role with this team anymore. We could save $6 million by dealing him somewhere and we could use that savings to find a player who really fits the role of a 3-4 ILB like we need. He is the player that I start shopping immediately. 

2. Jawaan Taylor- I don't know if we could get anything at all for this guy, but if someone is willing to give us a conditional 7th rounder, I take it. If we get no offers, I cut him outright. He is a liability. 

3. Laviska Shenault- I take the best offer we can get. I know he's cheap, but he is also a liability. He gets worse every year and if I have to see him drop another catchable pass, I'm gonna punch a hole in my TV. He was as much a liability last season as Jawaan Taylor was. 


I would love to deal Rayshawn Jenkins somewhere, but he has a $13 million dead cap hit, so we are stuck with him for another season at least. The same goes for Roy Robertson-Harris. He has a $10.6 million deal cap hit. Both players were complete wastes of money in last season's free agency.

Holy crap that last paragraph. Wonder if the folks who try to defend Baalke can spin that into a positive.

Jack might be tradeable, and in your list, I think he might be the only one I can say that for.

Taylor is probably young and cheap enough to allow a year to serve as backup guard/RT. I don't see him starting next season once all the shuffling along the line is done. If he refuses to serve as backup or play guard as previously reported, I think you have to let him walk, because he'd almost certainly lose a competition with whoever else we slot at RT.

I've never known what we have or what we intended with Shenault. That might be part of the problem, having no role, no expertise, no plays that make your ability the focus. Who's going to want a guy they have no idea what he does (or does best)?

Personally, I don't ever wanna see Taylor on the field for us ever again. He almost makes me as nervous as Ephraim Salaam when he used to play for the Jaguars..........almost.

Shenault never really had a true position when he played at Colorado either. They moved him all over the place. He was used more like a "weapon" than a true position player with the Buffalos.

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I distinctly recall people complaining about Allen Robinson dropping the ball too much his first or second year.

Jimmy Smith dropped a lot of catchable balls too.  Probably held onto him to long as well.

I sincerely hope this is sarcasm.

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I'm in agreement with keeping our good players, but I also think many have fuzzy memories regarding Ramsey and Ngakoue.  It's not like the Jaguars set out to trade them for no reason.  They were both holding out and the Jaguars felt their hands were tied.  People also forget that we got a lot in return for them.  In exchange for Ramsey and Ngakoue, the Jaguars got two first rounders, a second rounder, a fourth rounder and a fifth rounder.  Justin Jefferson was available with one of those first round picks.  We could have had Justin Jefferson, a first rounder, a second rounder, a fourth rounder and a fifth rounder.  If you prefer quality over quantity, we could have used the second, fourth and fifth round picks to trade up in the first round.  That should have gotten us a very quality starter to go along with Justin Jefferson.  Yes, we lost two quality players, but we should have gained at least two quality players as a result and saved a bunch of salary cap space at the same time.  This team wasn't destroyed because of those trades.  The Jaguars suffered because of poor drafting after the trades.

So true. It tears my heart out just to re-live how badly we used those valuable draft picks. We got nothing in return, because of terrible selections. What made it worse was that almost this entire board was in agreement on who we should've taken and those players have become stars at their positions.

Hey, consensus works for me.  I don't watch as much college football as I used to at all, so much of how I feel about our draft picks comes from opinions expressed on this board.  If nobody is complaining about a particular pick, I'm quite good with it.  If a lot of people are [BLEEP], chances are it was a crappy pick.

And yes, that was sarcasm. He did drop more catchable balls later in his career than I would have liked, probably due to coke-induced lack of focus. But he never failed to make the difficult catches.

Something that hasn't been mentioned enough, if at all on this board... How do players and a team manage to maintain focus to perform at their best when they are surrounded by so much dysfunction? The best players will manage under any circumstance, but we didn't have any of the best players.
Cullen did a remarkable job keeping the defense focused through the second half of the season in spite of all of the dysfunction, but the offense not so much. Shenault wasn't the only guy that dropped way too many balls last year, and lack of focus could have just as easily contributed as anything else.

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Something that hasn't been mentioned enough, if at all on this board...  How do players and a team manage to maintain focus to perform at their best when they are surrounded by so much dysfunction?  The best players will manage under any circumstance, but we didn't have any of the best players.
Cullen did a remarkable job keeping the defense focused through the second half of the season in spite of all of the dysfunction, but the offense not so much.  Shenault wasn't the only guy that dropped way too many balls last year, and lack of focus could have just as easily contributed as anything else.

While I'm not a player, I think the stock response is that in spite of the chaos, guys are still professionals and have to put tape down of their effort. If they aren't producing decent evaluators are still going to be able to see whether that's a symptom of play around them, injury, or their own lack of effort.

And in this league, if you are lagging, you'll be replaced. So even if the coach is a hemorrhoid, or you think you're underpaid, or the QB throws 80% of your passes in the dirt, you still bust your tail every snap so that you can keep playing the game at this level.

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Something that hasn't been mentioned enough, if at all on this board...  How do players and a team manage to maintain focus to perform at their best when they are surrounded by so much dysfunction?  The best players will manage under any circumstance, but we didn't have any of the best players.
Cullen did a remarkable job keeping the defense focused through the second half of the season in spite of all of the dysfunction, but the offense not so much.  Shenault wasn't the only guy that dropped way too many balls last year, and lack of focus could have just as easily contributed as anything else.

While I'm not a player, I think the stock response is that in spite of the chaos, guys are still professionals and have to put tape down of their effort. If they aren't producing decent evaluators are still going to be able to see whether that's a symptom of play around them, injury, or their own lack of effort.

And in this league, if you are lagging, you'll be replaced. So even if the coach is a hemorrhoid, or you think you're underpaid, or the QB throws 80% of your passes in the dirt, you still bust your tail every snap so that you can keep playing the game at this level.

Yes, they're professionals, but they are also young (very young in some cases) human beings, not robots.  I don't know about you, and I didn't have pro coaching to lead me (some could argue our guys didn't either), but I was in my 30's before I even began to feel the wisdom required to see the forest through the trees.  And even then seemingly made all the wrong choices! dammit!

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I've never known what we have or what we intended with Shenault. That might be part of the problem, having no role, no expertise, no plays that make your ability the focus. Who's going to want a guy they have no idea what he does (or does best)?

From what I see, hear, and read of Pederson, if they think he is worth keeping there will be plays that let him shine.

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Fix the O-Line!

I distinctly recall people complaining about Allen Robinson dropping the ball too much his first or second year.

Those people must be blind because he was injured most his first year and all he did his second was catch jump balls in double coverage

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I distinctly recall people complaining about Allen Robinson dropping the ball too much his first or second year.

Those people must be blind because he was injured most his first year and all he did his second was catch jump balls in double coverage

Sounds like your thinking of chark

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I distinctly recall people complaining about Allen Robinson dropping the ball too much his first or second year.

Those people must be blind because he was injured most his first year and all he did his second was catch jump balls in double coverage

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Those people must be blind because he was injured most his first year and all he did his second was catch jump balls in double coverage

Sounds like your thinking of chark

I think you aren't thinking.

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With all the solid receiving TEs available in both the draft and free agency this year, and better fits in Pederson's system, I am hoping the Jags capitalize on this abundance and reform the TE group.  As such, the only TE I care to retain is Dan Arnold.  The rest that are not free agents, namely Manhertz and Farrell, should be dangled in the trade market.

Mmmmmm, still need a blocking or inline TE. I keep one of 'em. Sign another move TE in FA plus draft one.

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The rest that are not free agents, namely Manhertz and Farrell, should be dangled in the trade market.

What exactly do you think you could expect in return for Farrell, which was our 5th round draft pick that had 7 catches for 56 yards (and 4 drops) ?

The Cinci TE got hurt last year so perhaps we could offer them Farrell in exchange for Jamar Chase.  When they reject that we can lower our demand to get Tyler Boyd or Tee Higgins.  Farrell is an Ohio native and Ohio State grad so I'm sure Bengals fans will embrace any kind of trade to get him back home.

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The rest that are not free agents, namely Manhertz and Farrell, should be dangled in the trade market.

What exactly do you think you could expect in return for Farrell, which was our 5th round draft pick that had 7 catches for 56 yards (and 4 drops) ?

The Cinci TE got hurt last year so perhaps we could offer them Farrell in exchange for Jamar Chase.  When they reject that we can lower our demand to get Tyler Boyd or Tee Higgins.  Farrell is an Ohio native and Ohio State grad so I'm sure Bengals fans will embrace any kind of trade to get him back home.

Hope is not a plan

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

I say trade Jack or Taylor if we can get any value for them. I guess since the WR position is very deep this year in the Draft, I can handle if we traded Shenault, but I do like him as a player when and if he makes the catch. He is very difficult to bring down once with the ball.

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This whole idea that we should trade away some of our players is based on the idea that we would use the resulting draft pick to get a better player.  But if that is true, why wouldn't the other team, the team that is supposedly going to trade the draft pick to us, feel the same way?  Why would they trade us that draft pick that they could also use to get a better player? 

One team (we) has to say, "I need a 5th round pick more than I need Jawaan Taylor."
The other team has to say, "I need Jawaan Taylor more than I need a 5th round pick."

You also have to have faith that you are actually going to get a better player with that 5th round pick.  You've created a hole in your roster, and you're going to fill it with a draft pick?  In a league where teams are considered very successful if they hit on 60% of their picks, how sure are you that you are going to be able to fill that hole you've created?  

This is why I am very skeptical of plans like this.  Trading players isn't going to improve your team very much, if at all.  If you have players who want to be here, why trade them away?  Work with them, try to make them better.  Because no other team is going to give you what they are worth.  

I know, it happens all the time, but it's a roll of the dice.  Why create a hole in an already very weak roster, and then roll the dice that that draft pick will not bust?

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