https://youtu.be/WCaoVnysjEw

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

I will put my cards on the table: If Ukraine wins this war and gets all of their territory back as claimed by Zelensky, I will concede that Russia an overrated "super" power and start looking forward to Putin's imminent death from the terminal cancer. I will concede that our media is more on the up and up than I realize, and that maybe I need to reconsider my doubts about the role our elites play in manipulating the general populace.

However, If Russia wins this, coming out with a favorable treaty... considering ALL the money we've sent to Ukraine.... considering ALL the intelligence we've given Ukraine... considering, now, the weapons we're giving Ukraine... will you mainstream media consumers admit you have been lied to about Russian capabilities and possibly bring yourselves to admit that our media lacks any integrity which results in you being ignorant to the happenings around you?

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I will put my cards on the table: If Ukraine wins this war and gets all of their territory back as claimed by Zelensky, I will concede that Russia an overrated "super" power and start looking forward to Putin's imminent death from the terminal cancer. I will concede that our media is more on the up and up than I realize, and that maybe I need to reconsider my doubts about the role our elites play in manipulating the general populace.

However, If Russia wins this, coming out with a favorable treaty... considering ALL the money we've sent to Ukraine.... considering ALL the intelligence we've given Ukraine... considering, now, the weapons we're giving Ukraine... will you mainstream media consumers admit you have been lied to about Russian capabilities and possibly bring yourselves to admit that our media lacks any integrity which results in you being ignorant to the happenings around you?

No one can predict the future with any certainty.  The media selects a set of facts and presents them to us, and then some of them venture an opinion, sometimes about what it all means, or what is going to happen next, but that's just an opinion.   There's a lot of money to be made by people trying to predict the future.  

But I will say this.  If the war ended today, with everyone frozen in place, that is a massive loss for the Russians, when you consider the cost.  I think it's already obvious that Russia is an overrated "superpower."  They spent a lot of money modernizing their military, and most of it seems to have gone into the pockets of people Putin thinks are his friends.  

Russian capabilities: there's a lot to unpack there.  You could write a book about that.  They could not defeat Ukraine.  A country with a tiny, antiquated air force.  A country right next to Russia.  And yes, we pumped a bunch of weapons in there, but still, this is Russia vs Ukraine.  Anyone can see at this point, Russia's military sucks.  

And I will also venture this opinion:  I think there's a good possibility that the United States has never wanted Ukraine to completely vanquish the Russians.  There's a good possibility that we have set up a situation where the Russians take massive losses in men and weapons, and financially, and that was what the administration actually wanted.  I don't think the administration actually wants Ukraine to take back Crimea.  It's too dangerous.

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I will put my cards on the table: If Ukraine wins this war and gets all of their territory back as claimed by Zelensky, I will concede that Russia an overrated "super" power and start looking forward to Putin's imminent death from the terminal cancer. I will concede that our media is more on the up and up than I realize, and that maybe I need to reconsider my doubts about the role our elites play in manipulating the general populace.

However, If Russia wins this, coming out with a favorable treaty... considering ALL the money we've sent to Ukraine.... considering ALL the intelligence we've given Ukraine... considering, now, the weapons we're giving Ukraine... will you mainstream media consumers admit you have been lied to about Russian capabilities and possibly bring yourselves to admit that our media lacks any integrity which results in you being ignorant to the happenings around you?

No one can predict the future with any certainty.  The media selects a set of facts and presents them to us, and then some of them venture an opinion, sometimes about what it all means, or what is going to happen next, but that's just an opinion.   There's a lot of money to be made by people trying to predict the future.  

But I will say this.  If the war ended today, with everyone frozen in place, that is a massive loss for the Russians, when you consider the cost.  I think it's already obvious that Russia is an overrated "superpower."  They spent a lot of money modernizing their military, and most of it seems to have gone into the pockets of people Putin thinks are his friends.  

Russian capabilities: there's a lot to unpack there.  You could write a book about that.  They could not defeat Ukraine.  A country with a tiny, antiquated air force.  A country right next to Russia.  And yes, we pumped a bunch of weapons in there, but still, this is Russia vs Ukraine.  Anyone can see at this point, Russia's military sucks.  

And I will also venture this opinion:  I think there's a good possibility that the United States has never wanted Ukraine to completely vanquish the Russians.  There's a good possibility that we have set up a situation where the Russians take massive losses in men and weapons, and financially, and that was what the administration actually wanted.  I don't think the administration actually wants Ukraine to take back Crimea.  It's too dangerous.

That goes back to what the media is feeding us over here Vs. the actuality of the war. Is Russia really getting it's [BLEEP] handed to it or are they holding back because they don't want to level and destroy Ukraine due to it's vast resources and financial potential? Plus, the long standing history of Russians still living within it's borders?

The United States, along with the rest of the Western front just want to continue it's efforts in expanding it's chokehold potential on a global scale. This is all it's ever been about and continues to be about but, we, Americans, have to pretend that's not what's going on and that it's just Putin being a big, bad wolf on the Eastern front terrorizing people. 

However, like Macgregor pointed out. At one point they were our allies in our nonsensical war in Afghanistan, etc. We keep inching closer and closer into Eastern territories and throwing up missile capabilities and bases to keep these countries in check. It's not any different than any towering presence cornering an animal and trying to kill it or capture it. That's what we do.

I don't think anybody has a [BLEEP] clue what this administration wants because it's just like every other war mongering administration we've seen off and on forever now here in our country. War. It's a bunch of old people talking and young people dying. Usually over some rich [BLEEP] sucker's desire to make even more money or bleed somebody dry. That's all it boils down to.

You can doctor it up or turn it into a dog and pony show, but, it's just political theater. Follow the money, or coke, since Biden is linked to Ukraine more than Trump ever was to Russia.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

I will put my cards on the table: If Ukraine wins this war and gets all of their territory back as claimed by Zelensky, I will concede that Russia an overrated "super" power and start looking forward to Putin's imminent death from the terminal cancer. I will concede that our media is more on the up and up than I realize, and that maybe I need to reconsider my doubts about the role our elites play in manipulating the general populace.

However, If Russia wins this, coming out with a favorable treaty... considering ALL the money we've sent to Ukraine.... considering ALL the intelligence we've given Ukraine... considering, now, the weapons we're giving Ukraine... will you mainstream media consumers admit you have been lied to about Russian capabilities and possibly bring yourselves to admit that our media lacks any integrity which results in you being ignorant to the happenings around you?

No one can predict the future with any certainty.  The media selects a set of facts and presents them to us, and then some of them venture an opinion, sometimes about what it all means, or what is going to happen next, but that's just an opinion.   There's a lot of money to be made by people trying to predict the future.  

But I will say this.  If the war ended today, with everyone frozen in place, that is a massive loss for the Russians, when you consider the cost.  I think it's already obvious that Russia is an overrated "superpower."  They spent a lot of money modernizing their military, and most of it seems to have gone into the pockets of people Putin thinks are his friends.  

Russian capabilities: there's a lot to unpack there.  You could write a book about that.  They could not defeat Ukraine.  A country with a tiny, antiquated air force.  A country right next to Russia.  And yes, we pumped a bunch of weapons in there, but still, this is Russia vs Ukraine.  Anyone can see at this point, Russia's military sucks.  

And I will also venture this opinion:  I think there's a good possibility that the United States has never wanted Ukraine to completely vanquish the Russians.  There's a good possibility that we have set up a situation where the Russians take massive losses in men and weapons, and financially, and that was what the administration actually wanted.  I don't think the administration actually wants Ukraine to take back Crimea.  It's too dangerous.

Firstly, I put "super" in quotes instead of "superpower" for a reason. They have power, but they aren't a superpower, even though people treat them like one when it's convenient. That said, if they can't beat Ukraine, the only threat they pose is their nuclear arsenal. That would be a great relief, but I don't think it's true. However, I think too many Americans are accepting this narrative. If Russia caves, I will have to admit I was wrong, and this sentiment is more true than I believed. 

Secondly, I think you're going to end up wrong about the rest of your post, but instead of examining why you'll end up wrong, you will just say "no one can predict the future."

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I will put my cards on the table: If Ukraine wins this war and gets all of their territory back as claimed by Zelensky, I will concede that Russia an overrated "super" power and start looking forward to Putin's imminent death from the terminal cancer. I will concede that our media is more on the up and up than I realize, and that maybe I need to reconsider my doubts about the role our elites play in manipulating the general populace.

However, If Russia wins this, coming out with a favorable treaty... considering ALL the money we've sent to Ukraine.... considering ALL the intelligence we've given Ukraine... considering, now, the weapons we're giving Ukraine... will you mainstream media consumers admit you have been lied to about Russian capabilities and possibly bring yourselves to admit that our media lacks any integrity which results in you being ignorant to the happenings around you?

Who says we've given Ukraine anything at all? The media? I thought you didn't trust them.

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I will put my cards on the table: If Ukraine wins this war and gets all of their territory back as claimed by Zelensky, I will concede that Russia an overrated "super" power and start looking forward to Putin's imminent death from the terminal cancer. I will concede that our media is more on the up and up than I realize, and that maybe I need to reconsider my doubts about the role our elites play in manipulating the general populace.

However, If Russia wins this, coming out with a favorable treaty... considering ALL the money we've sent to Ukraine.... considering ALL the intelligence we've given Ukraine... considering, now, the weapons we're giving Ukraine... will you mainstream media consumers admit you have been lied to about Russian capabilities and possibly bring yourselves to admit that our media lacks any integrity which results in you being ignorant to the happenings around you?

Who says we've given Ukraine anything at all? The media? I though you didn't trust them.

Don't be daft. We've heard it now numerous times, straight from the horse's mouths. Between the $6B accounting error acknowledged by the Pentagon and Volodymyr Zelenaziskyy's own interviews and testimonials. Not the first time the Pentagon has managed to mismanage billions and in some cases, trillions of dollars.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

I will put my cards on the table: If Ukraine wins this war and gets all of their territory back as claimed by Zelensky, I will concede that Russia an overrated "super" power and start looking forward to Putin's imminent death from the terminal cancer. I will concede that our media is more on the up and up than I realize, and that maybe I need to reconsider my doubts about the role our elites play in manipulating the general populace.

However, If Russia wins this, coming out with a favorable treaty... considering ALL the money we've sent to Ukraine.... considering ALL the intelligence we've given Ukraine... considering, now, the weapons we're giving Ukraine... will you mainstream media consumers admit you have been lied to about Russian capabilities and possibly bring yourselves to admit that our media lacks any integrity which results in you being ignorant to the happenings around you?

Who says we've given Ukraine anything at all? The media? I though you didn't trust them.

There were so many other memes I'd rather post in response to this drivel, but they were all borderline NSFW. We need a spoiler tag for such occasions. This will have to do, I guess.

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Who says we've given Ukraine anything at all? The media? I though you didn't trust them.

Don't be daft. We've heard it now numerous times, straight from the horse's mouths. Between the $6B accounting error acknowledged by the Pentagon and Volodymyr Zelenaziskyy's own interviews and testimonials. Not the first time the Pentagon has managed to mismanage billions and in some cases, trillions of dollars.

That's just tough guy talk.  Locker room talk.  You have to remember you're dealing with narcissists.
Anything they say that is inconvenient to the point I am making, you have misinterpreted.
Anything they say that reinforces the point I'm making, is absolutely true.  Absolutely nails it.  Says it all.
But remember.
They are the narcissists.
Not me.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

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Don't be daft. We've heard it now numerous times, straight from the horse's mouths. Between the $6B accounting error acknowledged by the Pentagon and Volodymyr Zelenaziskyy's own interviews and testimonials. Not the first time the Pentagon has managed to mismanage billions and in some cases, trillions of dollars.

That's just tough guy talk.  Locker room talk.  You have to remember you're dealing with narcissists.
Anything they say that is inconvenient to the point I am making, you have misinterpreted.
Anything they say that reinforces the point I'm making, is absolutely true.  Absolutely nails it.  Says it all.
But remember.
They are the narcissists.
Not me.

I swear you talk in riddles man. I will leave you with this. 

"Buy a man eat fish, he day, teach fish man, to a lifetime".

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

That's just tough guy talk.  Locker room talk.  You have to remember you're dealing with narcissists.
Anything they say that is inconvenient to the point I am making, you have misinterpreted.
Anything they say that reinforces the point I'm making, is absolutely true.  Absolutely nails it.  Says it all.
But remember.
They are the narcissists.
Not me.

I swear you talk in riddles man. I will leave you with this. 

"Buy a man eat fish, he day, teach fish man, to a lifetime".

All you're going to get is regurgitated NPR talking points.. He reeks of them..

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That's just tough guy talk.  Locker room talk.  You have to remember you're dealing with narcissists.
Anything they say that is inconvenient to the point I am making, you have misinterpreted.
Anything they say that reinforces the point I'm making, is absolutely true.  Absolutely nails it.  Says it all.
But remember.
They are the narcissists.
Not me.

I swear you talk in riddles man. I will leave you with this. 

"Buy a man eat fish, he day, teach fish man, to a lifetime".

It's a joke targeting L2L and I think he got it.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Even the stridently pro Kremlin commentators on Russian TV say this war has been a total disaster. So I don't know where anyone would get the idea that it has been anything but that.

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Even the stridently pro Kremlin commentators on Russian TV say this war has been a total disaster.  So I don't know where anyone would get the idea that it has been anything but that.

Links please. Would be interested to see it and skim through the comment section for some "on the ground" accounts if possible. I get bits and pieces from my cousins Ivanka and Boris. It's complicated.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Even the stridently pro Kremlin commentators on Russian TV say this war has been a total disaster.  So I don't know where anyone would get the idea that it has been anything but that.

Links please. Would be interested to see it and skim through the comment section for some "on the ground" accounts if possible. I get bits and pieces from my cousins Ivanka and Boris. It's complicated.

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/stat...ed-1774201

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Here's an article about it:

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukrain...fde6f2ece1

Frustration with Ukraine war spills out on Russian state TV

Frustration with the battlefield setbacks has long been expressed in social media blogs run by nationalist pundits and pro-Kremlin analysts, and the volume grew after Ukraine’s counteroffensive last month around Kharkiv in the northeast. But it is now spilling out on state TV broadcasts and in the pages of government-backed newspapers.

And this:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/09/12/rus...far-right/

A new Russian protest movement is coalescing, but it’s neither pro-democracy nor anti-war. Instead, it’s the most extreme of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s supporters, who have grown increasingly furious at the unfolding military disaster for Russia in the six-month-long war in Ukraine.

And this:

‘We have already lost’: far-right Russian bloggers slam military failures | Ukraine | The Guardian

“The war in Ukraine will continue until the complete defeat of Russia,” Igor Girkin, a far-right nationalist, grumbled in a video address to his 430,000 followers on Telegram on Monday. “We have already lost, the rest is just a matter of time.”

Girkin, a former Russian intelligence colonel who became a commander of the pro-Russian separatist forces in 2014, is arguably the most prominent voice within an increasingly loud and angry group of ultra-nationalist and pro-war bloggers who have taken to berating the Kremlin for its failure to achieve its tactical objectives as the fighting in Ukraine has entered its seventh month.

And this:

Head of Russian private army Wagner says more than 20,000 of his troops died in Bakhmut battle | AP News

In an interview published late Tuesday with Konstantin Dolgov, a pro-Kremlin political strategist, Prigozhin went even further in his criticism — questioning some of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s rationale for the war. Prigozhin said Russia’s goal of “demilitarizing” Ukraine has backfired because Kyiv’s military has become stronger with Western weapons and training.

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So, just out of curiosity, if everything is going according to plan, why would it be difficult for you or Mikey to admit you might be being lied to on a massive scale if Russia comes out on top?

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So, just out of curiosity, if everything is going according to plan, why would it be difficult for you or Mikey to admit you might be being lied to on a massive scale if Russia comes out on top?

I wouldnt claim everything is going to plan.  I take what Marty posted with a grain of salt.
Thanks to NATO, Ukraine will not lack for weapons in the foreseeable future.  But they may start to lack in men, and in the stamina of the men they have.  I would not hazard a prediction of how this ends.  I hope it ends with Putin exiled to Teheran or Beijing, but that's just hope.

No one disputes the following:
Russia has lost a lot of men and a lot of material for very very little territorial gain. 
NATO's actions have drastically weakened Russia. Potentially this will embolden countries like Moldova or Uzbekistan to get out from under Russia's shadow. Maybe.
Ukraine has also lost a lot of men and material, and that's a tragedy.
Beyond that I don't claim to know much of anything.  There are many liars out there.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

So, just out of curiosity, if everything is going according to plan, why would it be difficult for you or Mikey to admit you might be being lied to on a massive scale if Russia comes out on top?

If it is true that we have been lied to on a massive scale about the war in Ukraine, then please give me a specific example.  

Secondly, I get my information about this war from a wide variety of sources.  What is your source that is telling you this war is going according to plan for the Russians?  

Thirdly, what would constitute "Russia coming out on top?"

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Some of Ukraine's Western-made vehicles are getting 'killed' on the battlefield, but it's not as much of a win for Russia's forces as it was (msn.com)

https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1691...72154?s=20

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